Right Wing Hero Shoots Up Liberal Church by NewOldBrownCoat

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

What is the point of this post, exactly?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 5:47 AM

America loves a winner!

Where do you get off calling this nut a " right wing hero " ??

That doesn't make any sense.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:01 AM

EVILDINOSAUR

gotta love those heroes that go around killing people they don't agree with, that's the american way....i guess

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:08 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by EvilDinosaur:
gotta love those heroes that go around killing people they don't agree with, that's the american way....i guess

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

Again, you repeat w/ out explanation. How is this nut case a 'hero' ?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Where do you get off calling this nut a " right wing hero " ??

I object to the term 'hero'.

They also found TV Guide in this guys house. A search of TV Guide indicated a large number of programs such as 'the CBS Evening News', Hannah Montana, and something called the Lifetime Movie Network.

I think its pretty clear what really set this guy off.

H

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:45 AM

DEADLOCKVICTIM

.... i hate to state the obvious, but in fact, the world might be a better place if each individual would only learn to think for themselves....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:48 AM

I hope and believe that this guy is not thought of as a hero by most right-wingers,

that being said, there has been a dehumanizing effort of the right wing voices against liberals and other targets, and eventually that shit is going to take its toll.

Whereass you see a little bit of it on the left, with say, Mike Malloy that has nothing be derogatory things to say about Republicans, I do not see astounding calls towards violence in his language nor in any other liberal's language, on the whole.

Whereas on the other side, we get words like "lynching" Mrs. Obama out of O'reilly's mouth, demands that certain people should be shot from the likes of Reagan, calls for crashing and inciting rioting at the Democratic National convention from Limbaugh, a comment from a Fox news contributor that suggested it would be a good thing if Obama was shot, suggestions from Bolton that if the top 10 levels of the UN were lost it wouldn't make a bit of difference, O'reilly saying that if al qaeda comes in and blows up San Fransisco a collective 'we' aren't going to do anything about it, and so on and so on. I'm not even going to touch the right wing religious leaders and their speech.

This kind of shit, oft repeated, does have an effect on people, especially when the pressures of their everyday lives mount up and they crack a little. This sort of distortion and condonation of violence eventually makes people want to take action against the group these talking heads have blamed repeatedly for their problems,

and if not legally responsible, these hate preachers Are responsible... for fueling this fire by making violent messures sound heroic, even patriotic, in a country that is supposed to work democratically.

They are working with terror, they are making it feel physically riskier to ideologically allign oneself with liberal values. It's shameful, and you guys should have a problem with the overall tone that makes violence an answer.

Instead your problem is with the likes of REverend Wright, who may have an issue with the way our government has worked, may have a problem even with white people, though I don't think that was proven or even developed well, but nobody could pull out a speech where he advocated or condoned violence, otherwise I'm sure I would have heard it a billion times by now.

Yeah, HE was the danger to our country's values...not the people preaching violence and intimidation over democratic action...

...........

On edit, I remember one on the left that I object to, no matter how accurate it might be. Maher is a 'provocoteur', his show is 'politically incorrect', but I don't think it was helpful to say that if Cheney had died years ago(it was something like this) a lot less people would be dead now.

I'm not saying I don't think its true, but I don't know what positive purpose this could have. He could have made the same point just saying if "cheney hadn't been elected to office" etc.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 6:50 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Some people, delusional ones, cannot separate fantasy from reality. If you over-engage yourself with all the cable and internet news and blogs, it is easy to see how anyone can get upset, angry, and frustrated at what opponents of your positions believe. We see it here at RWED often. Fortunately 99.99% of people are able to reject violence as a tool to advance their views.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:07 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I have frequently heard people say that Bush & Co should be brought up on war crimes charges, lined up against a wall, and shot.

There are people making ludicrous statements in every political field, and that anyone would act on these statements is a testament not to the power of 'right wing' or 'left wing' mouthpieces and their corrupting influence, but rather of a deep lack of intellect and reasoning capacity coupled with a fragile emotional state.

So take your 'wings' and clip them, and discard them in the cemetary of empty political mongering, and try saying something meaningful for a change.

These kinds of threads make me ill.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:33 AM

people say a lot of things...

of course treason is still punishable with the death penatly, and at least that still respects legal channels,

but I don't advocate talk like that,and don't want the death penalty as an answer to any problem,

but it doesn't undermine my point which was not that people on webpages or on the street are saying this kind of shit, but that there are people who are given wide audiences saying this kind of shit, people who are legitimized by their sindication...etc.

and i'm sorry if the subject makes you ill, but prove to me that both sides are equatable in this regard, and i'll drop it.

Just saying they are don't fly brother

and on edit....

what do you think the point of me adding my thoughts to this thread are? I'm pointing out an obvious pattern that people should be aware of. I even threw in the two people on the left I know of that have dabbled in similar warfare,

which is as apolitical as this topic can get, because sadly the game and the tactic is political, and seems to trend along a certain party line more than the other. What would be your reasoning for prefering to ignore it exactly?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:55 AM

SIMONWHO

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I have frequently heard people say that Bush & Co should be brought up on war crimes charges, lined up against a wall, and shot.

Yes, because he committed war crimes. What did these churchgoers do, other than belong to a church that respected the philosophy of loving one another?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 8:13 AM

EVILDINOSAUR

Quote:
Again, you repeat w/ out explanation. How is this nut case a 'hero' ?

I'm not the original poster of this thread. And I certainly don't think of this man as a hero, I'll try to make my sarcasm a little more obvious in the future.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
"I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo — every filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress." — Sean Hannity

This quote comes from Mike Tidmus's Blog. He claims he heard Hannity say it on Hannity and Combs on June 15, 2005.

There is no video evidence or transcript to support Mr. Tidmus's claim.

Liberal bloggers make up quotes like this with no source material. Then other Liberal Bloggers use the original Blog as their source and so on.

Let me give you an example: here is a quote from Fireflyfans.net posted by NewOldBrownCoat on Dec 5th 2007.

Quote:

I'm NewOldBrownCoat and I say I hate black people. We need to kill all black people. Black people should die...not because they're black...but because I hates them.

I am shocked and appalled by the racism and violence advocated by this post. I'm so shocked that I will fail to disclose a link to the source material.

Now if somebody...like Aurapter comes along...he can quote your quote as fact...despite the fact it has no basis in reality.

I note that not all the quotes you mentioned fall into the catagory or pure fiction. Some are satirical, some are out of context, some are Ann Coulter, and some are dead on.

It really does not matter. This guy shot up a church looking for evil liberals. There is hardly an epidemic of violence caused by conservative rhetoric. There is an epidemic of violence caused by liberal Democratic social policy.

Tell you what, I'll trade you Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity for fifty years of conservative control of City politics in most American cities.

H

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
"I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo — every filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress." — Sean Hannity

This quote comes from Mike Tidmus's Blog. He claims he heard Hannity say it on Hannity and Combs on June 15, 2005.

There is no video evidence or transcript to support Mr. Tidmus's claim.

Liberal bloggers make up quotes like this with no source material. Then other Liberal Bloggers use the original Blog as their source and so on.

Let me give you an example: here is a quote from Fireflyfans.net posted by NewOldBrownCoat on Dec 5th 2007.

Quote:

I'm NewOldBrownCoat and I say I hate black people. We need to kill all black people. Black people should die...not because they're black...but because I hates them.

I am shocked and appalled by the racism and violence advocated by this post. I'm so shocked that I will fail to disclose a link to the source material.

Now if somebody...like Aurapter comes along...he can quote your quote as fact...despite the fact it has no basis in reality.

I note that not all the quotes you mentioned fall into the catagory or pure fiction. Some are satirical, some are out of context, some are Ann Coulter, and some are dead on.

It really does not matter. This guy shot up a church looking for evil liberals. There is hardly an epidemic of violence caused by conservative rhetoric. There is an epidemic of violence caused by liberal Democratic social policy.

Tell you what, I'll trade you Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity for fifty years of conservative control of City politics in most American cities.

H

Outstanding!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:05 PM

Heh,

Jong, what was outstanding about that, seriously?

The funny part is you tend to be all too aware of where conservative politics have taken us these last 8 years,

so why would you reward Hero with such praise for an assinine and unfounded comment that liberal democratic social policy has caused violence,

as opposed to say, the Iraq war maybe?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:31 PM

WHOZIT

Does that make the Unibomber a left wing hero?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 2:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Now if somebody...like Aurapter comes along...he can quote your quote as fact...despite the fact it has no basis in reality.

Or George W. Bush - like he "quoted" British intel in his justification for invading Iraq without facts and without any basis in reality...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 2:32 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
Does that make the Unibomber a left wing hero?

[Sarcasm ON]

Yes.

Unibomber = Left Wing hero.

Tim McVeigh = Right Wing hero.

David Koresh = Left Wing hero.

Janet Reno = oddly enough, RIGHT Wing hero, for refusing to negotiate with Koresh and for burning his house down on top of him.

Does that about cover it?

Oh, yeah - Eric Rudolph = Left Wing hero, according to Hero's logic. If there hadn't been an abortion clinic there, he wouldn't have been forced to bomb it! See what you liberals did? If you would just stop using your rights, we wouldn't have to kill you all to defend your freedoms!

Sheesh, how can you people not get that?

[Sarcasm OFF]

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, July 31, 2008 2:43 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Don't forget about William Krar there, Mikey.

Funny how the press buried that one when they learned where his political leanings were.

Why is it that all the really nasty domestic terrorists are hard-right, if them "damn liburlllz" are so dangerous, eh ?

Could it maybe be that Liberals as a general rule try to influence people with means OTHER than violence ?
(Not including folk who simply want the State to commit violence on their behalf, those are National Socialists, look it up to see what I mean by that.)

I still find it howlingly ironic that what set this nutter off at those "damn liburlllz" is having his food stamps cut off....

All that aside, one can SAY whatever they damn well please, it's what you DO, that concerns me.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 2:07 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:

Yes, because he committed war crimes. What did these churchgoers do, other than belong to a church that respected the philosophy of loving one another?

Bush has commmitted no war crimes, and its nut case views like yours who say he did which give other nut cases an excuse to shoot up churches.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 2:07 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
This quote comes from Mike Tidmus's Blog.

Couldn't find proof of this. Have you got a link? By that I mean a link that proves that he made it up, not that it was originally quoted in his blog.

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 2:13 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Now if somebody...like Aurapter comes along...he can quote your quote as fact...despite the fact it has no basis in reality.

Or George W. Bush - like he "quoted" British intel in his justification for invading Iraq without facts and without any basis in reality...

Mike

Wrong. The British did indeed say exactly that, and still stand by their statement, even today.

Your analogy is false.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 2:35 AM

SIMONWHO

Actually the British confessed to war crimes in Iraq and the Americans there have done worse.

Can't wait to see Bush in the Hague.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 3:54 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Somehow missed this bit of idiocy earlier..

Quote:
There is hardly an epidemic of violence caused by conservative rhetoric.

*points to Iraq*

And now they're talkin shit at Iran, with obvious intent to provoke a country who, in spite of having talked a considerable amount of smack in the other direction, has shown truly remarkable restraint in dealing with an aggressive military force hell bent on provoking them.

Oh, and before anything thinks it perhaps hypocritical for someone who's advocating an outright witch-hunt style purge with a side order of decapitations to be condemning this incident, allow me to point out that I am neither Liberal nor Conservative, but an Anarchist, and (this is the important bit) Constitutional Minimalist.

That means no, I DON'T have a problem with the idea of lynching those who swore an Oath to uphold the US Constitution, then turned around and shat upon it, and to be downright blunt about it, while I *might* have a problem with doing so to those who cheerlead and supported them in spite of this, and continue to do so, given the simple fact that the support of such collaborators and informant weasels are the gears that make tyranny FUNCTION effectively, damned if I would act to prevent it, although I would not participate.

To be even downright crass about it, where this particular batshit nutter screwed up was aiming in both the wrong direction (if he's pissed over the loss of his food stamps, he was aimin at the wrong end of the political spectrum) and not aiming "high" enough - shooting the drones accomplishes nothing, if you wanna send that kinda message, you need to start with folks who SET policy, not those who suffer under it.

While that might not be the nicest way to put things, it's a damn sight better than the rightwingnuts who are without a doubt smiling up their sleeves as they offer false platitudes about how horrible this incident is while secretly hoping for more of the same.

I ain't gonna sit here and lie like that, it's pointless and no one with half a brain would believe it anyhow.

Like I've said before... to ME, ain't a dimes worth of difference between these Straussian Neocon proto-fascists and Al Queda to me save for the Neocons being physically closer and a more imminent threat - they're both fountains of hate and violence against anything or anyone who doesn't march in step with them.

Still doesn't mean I wanna cap folk just for holding those beliefs, so long as they do not ACT against me (which the Neocons have, and Al Queda has NOT) then I could give a fuck.

But the right to belief ends at the wall of anothers right to NOT believe the same things.

To attempt to forcibly carry it past that point, aggressively and with malice aforethough, that's where you *deserve* a cap in yer ass, it's just that simple.

Clear ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 5:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
This quote comes from Mike Tidmus's Blog.
Couldn't find proof of this. Have you got a link? By that I mean a link that proves that he made it up, not that it was originally quoted in his blog.

Since 2005 there has been not one piece of video evidence to support the quote and not one transcript. We live in the age of YouTube, if he said it someone would have it and it would be available.

That said...I have no doubt Mr. Tidmus HEARD it. Many liberal bloggers labor under a hearing disability when listening to a conservative speaker. They hear what they want to hear...not what is actually said.

For example...President Bush says "no draft". Liberal Blogger hear Bush say "we will have a draft, but only of African Americans to support the illegal occupation of Iraq in violation of international laws and to further our oil interests and to commit the war crimes that I will personally authorize and oversee".

Right wing bloggers have a similar delusional hearing disorder.

For example. A liberal speaker says..."God Damn America!" But the Right Wingers only hear them say "God Damn America"...but fail to realize realize that what he meant by "God damn America" was "America needs to address social injustice both at home and abroad through a peaceful and respectful dialogue with all interested parties."

H

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 5:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
*points to Iraq*

*Iraq points back at Frem...and winks*

H

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 6:13 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
We live in the age of YouTube, if he said it someone would have it and it would be available.

That's a good point, actually.

Quote:
Right wing bloggers have a similar delusional hearing disorder.

I'm glad you said this, it means that we agree that bloggers on both sides have a delusional hearing disorder.

By the way, kudos for interpreting Wright's comments for what they were supposed to be, that puts you ahead of many liberals who bought into the spin.

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 6:29 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

African American Hero Shoots Up Quick Trip!

On Sunday, 32-year-old Jermaine Addington entered the Tennessee Valley Quick Trip during the midnight shift. In his jacket pocket, he carried a handgun and 12 loose rounds of ammunition. Adddington killed two station employees, Greg McHendry (60) and Linda Kruger (61), and wounded one more before he was wrestled to the ground as he tried to reload.
Inside Addington's house, officers found a copy of "Smoke the Man" by rapper Supa Killa, "Git tha Hos" by rapper MC Magnum, and "The Bitch Factor," by rapper Who Whoodie Who. Some quick Google searches turned up these quotes from prominent African American rappers:

"I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo — every damn cracker." — Supa Killa

"To fight only the al-Qaeda scum is to miss the terrorist network operating within our own borders... the Man!" — MC Magnum

"The Man is the greatest threat this country faces, except for skank hos." — Who Whoodie Who

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

These kinds of threads make me ill. And I'm hoping by swapping a few words and letters of the alphabet, you might be able to tell why.

The statement, the argument, is inherently fallacious. The idea seems to imply that 'you people' are more inclined to killing sprees than 'our people' because 'your rhetoric turns people into psychopaths.'

And any argument which starts with 'you people' is one I find detestable.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 6:54 AM

So AntonyT, YOU PEOPLE don't believe

a systematic demonizing of a people can have a real effect on the population at large?

In NAZI Germany there were just a lot of individuals behaving badly? It wasn't a general dehumanization of the jews that made it easier for them to do the things they did to them?

Or what about RWANDA where two ethnic groups were consistently pitted against each other by propaganda making one seem stupider, baser, less human than the other. MOre individuals behaving badly?
..............

That said, your point about rap is taken.

But rap is "entertainment", and punditry is often not taken as entertainment, even though that is what it is.

And rap is frankly, more diverse.

ON the other hand, punditry that suggests violence as a solution, and a certain group as the problem for all of our woes, is far more systematic. If you say something loud enough and long enough it becomes true, and that's a whole lot of people saying the same things, to a wide audience, many of whom have no other information inlets.

You honestly going to say this has no effect?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 7:02 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Been too busy to reply, but here's some more , from the same source, again edited somewhat:

"Adkisson targeted the church, [Investigator Steve] Still wrote 'because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets.'

"Adkisson told Still that 'he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office.'"

Carol Smallwood, a longtime acquaintance of Adkisson’s, said he hates “'blacks, gays and anyone different from him,” ... In a four-page note Adkisson left in his car, he explicitly noted his hate for the “liberal movement” — the Unitarian Universalist church is well known for its liberal stances on homosexuality, civil rights, opposition to war, women’s rights, and multiculturalism.

The right has already begun and will continue to claim that Adkisson is just a crazy nut, is not really a conservative (or is actually a liberal), that his stated motive of carrying out right-wing ideology means nothing, and that it is “inappropriate” to discuss politics in relation to such a heinous crime.

Obviously, this merely scratches the surface of what issues daily from the mouths and keyboards of right-wing pundits.

Meanwhile, back at FOX, they have imposed a near media blackout of this story, despite the involvement of its two biggest stars. As of 9:28pm PT, a search of the foxnews.com website turned up not one story about the shooting. Neither O’Reilly nor Hannity mentioned the shooting on the Monday or Tuesday after the shooting. In contrast, both O’Reilly and Hannity devoted large blocks of their shows to the Virginia Tech shootings, and FOX did stories about it around the clock. But when their books helped provide the justification for politically motivated murder, Hannity and O'Reilly apparently can’t be bothered to address it, or even acknowledge that it happened.
Even though FOX won’t cover this story, it cannot be allowed to fade because no matter what conservatives will say, this shooting in Knoxville says something very important about the right wing and the messages its most prominent, powerful, most highly-paid voices are sending to millions of Americans.

Now, these are MY WORDS, not the fraudulent, propagandistic, character assassination forgeries created by other posters to this thread:

While some posters question the accuracy of ONE Quote, they don't have anything to say about the rest.
Reminds me of the OJ trial, when Johnny Cocharane said that if the jury disbelieved one thing a witness said they could ignore his entire testimony. So when the chauffer said he saw OJ sneaking down the street but was innaccurate on the time by 1 or 2 minutes, they could throw out the basic fact, OJ sneaking, because the guy had the time wrong by the error of his watch, in spite of the fact that cell phone records showed an accurate time.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 7:20 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

The responsibility for action always lies with the individual. The only exception to this is mental incompetence.

The 'you people' problem, the one you are complaining about (liberals were 'you people' to the man that performed these acts) is the same thing you are doing. You complain about liberals being dehumanized by 'the right,' and then proceed to perform the exact same function.

When you equate 'the right' with the worst actions and comments taken by their membership, it is the same as equating 'liberals' with the worst actions and comments taken by their membership.

Any argument which uses 'you people', be it theirs or yours, is detestable. You should revile at using it, as it is the very thing you are purportedly complaining about.

The process of dehumanizing someone is twofold.

Step One - LUMP THEM TOGETHER.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 7:32 AM

Bullshit,

because at the end of the day I NEVER advocate violence as a solution. And I don't consider all people with conservative values scum. The people manufacturing outrage and advocating violence are not the party at large, but they are essentially rallyers for certain agendas that suit that party's goals.

If a pattern exists I think its important to point it out.

because the thing I'M sick of is listening to the media when these topics come up, anything that involves left or right, and then their big solution being "WEll they're all doing it",

like that makes everything even, and there's no point in trying to ascertain if there really is a difference. Why believe anybody ever? Why pay attention to any news source, because as they said on the TV, they're all bad. They couldn't convince you they were better, but at least they can convince you that there's no point in seeking out something better, with a higher tone.

The facts don't bear that out dude. Why act like both sides are the same, when they are not?

"you people" "them people", it's an unfortunate convenience. We can't write five page sentences every time we try to talk about topics, as qualifiers for EXACTLY who we are talking about every time. I'm sorry the simplicity of it offends you...if you have a better solution I'd like to hear it.

..............

also, what do you mean the responsibility always lies with the individual...

that you're in the camp that morality is embued within you by some higher power?

That every cannibal is morally reprehensible because they were raised in a tribe of cannibals and believe that is the only way?

Paradigms have a lot to do with what we think is acceptible behavior, and thus, how we behave.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 8:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA

AnthonyT

Quote:
The statement, the argument, is inherently fallacious. The idea seems to imply that 'you people' are more inclined to killing sprees than 'our people' because 'your rhetoric turns people into psychopaths.'

Good point.

You will, however note, that no matter how sarcastic I put it - I am always careful to be VERY specific on the target of such commentary, insult or slagging.

To wit: Straussian Neocon proto-fascists.
(i.e. PNAC, Clean Break Signatories)

These folk are ALREADY murderous sociopaths, callin em that is just statin a fact.

And since they are successful in a society that breeds, reveres and rewards them (with a token slap on the hand here and there for forms sake) - dimbulbs who don't seem to realize that a critical key to their success is being born into wealthy and politically powerful families try to emulate them.

Some take it to extremes, and the encouragement from folks who should know better doesn't help it any.

It's pointless to deny the obvious, that these things DO influence peoples actions because people in our society and education system are conditioned TO respond to that influence instead of thinking for themselves.

It still does come to an individual standpoint though, at least with me - if you've done no harm to me or mine, imma dislike you from an emotional distance and leave you alone....

It's when you DO THINGS THAT DIRECTLY AFFECT ME (like Engler fucking the cab industry on his way out of office, which crippled my ability to make a buck) that imma take it kinda personal and retaliate in the manner I feel proper.

And stabbin me in the wallet via the Taxman, to finance shit that directly impacts me in a negative fashion is about the fastest way in the universe to piss me off.

Believe me, for what I paid in gas today.... I'm all for removing our CinC, even on the flimsiest excuse, Billy humped one intern, Bush humped us all.

So yeah, it's individual, hell, to put not too fine a point on it, ya might call it personal - that's MY freakin money....

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 11:57 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Some counterpoints:

"I don't consider all people with conservative values scum."

Then perhaps you need to define 'Right Wing' for me. Because I thought you were referring to people with conservative values. I'm sure a lot of people thought that, too.

"that you're in the camp that morality is embued within you by some higher power?"

Imbued as I am with the ability to reason, and reasong that morality exists for logical reasons of reciprocity, I guess you could say I think morality is an intrinsic trait amongst reasoning people. But that's an argument for another thread (feel free to start one.)

"That every cannibal is morally reprehensible because they were raised in a tribe of cannibals and believe that is the only way?"

Reprehensible and responsible are different things. Even in his own society, the cannibal is responsible for what he does and who he tries to eat. If he tries to eat someone and they kill him, are you honestly saying that he isn't responsible for his actions and the consequences? That he didn't know what he was doing?

""you people" "them people", it's an unfortunate convenience. We can't write five page sentences every time we try to talk about topics, as qualifiers for EXACTLY who we are talking about every time. I'm sorry the simplicity of it offends you...if you have a better solution I'd like to hear it."

I'd recommend not using terms that you are positive include people who you are not trying to condemn. 'Right Wing' is a heck of a lot of people. A lot of people who don't condone violence against people for their political beliefs. A lot of people who would find the commentary of these political entertainers repugnant. Because once you include them in your ire, they may feel compelled to defend themselves against your slander, and that may put them in a defensive posture right next to people they'd normally distance themselves from.

I used to watch a lot of cartoons and read a lot of comics. I remember Bugs Bunny cartoons with buck-toothed monstrosities that were meant to represent the Japanese. I remember rediculous charicatures of Japanese people in superhero comic books.

I also remember listening to how we rounded up every Japanese person in the country and stuck them into concentration camps. That's what you get when you create a 'Them.' Dehumanizing works in both directions, and you can become as guilty of it as the people you claim to loathe.

Just because you think one side is worse than the other doesn't give you permission to behave badly. I'm sorry you think it's Bullshit to say so.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 12:03 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Actually the British confessed to war crimes in Iraq and the Americans there have done worse.

Can't wait to see Bush in the Hague.

Sure they did.

Don't hold your breath on Bush an the Hague thing.

Not gonna happen.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 1:43 PM

AntonyT

except that you may have missed in my original post where I said at the very beginning, I don't believe most right wingers would consider this guy a hero. The whole point of my post was to direct attention to a certain media influence.

I'll grant that right after that I didn't make a clear enough distinction about whether I meant all right wingers, or just those numerous voices that apparently resonate with right-wingers enough that they continue to play. There's a chicken and an egg question here that I think is worth exploring.

..............

Woah, I'm not sure how your argument about Japanese internment camps is a counterpoint to my argument. It seems like we're in agreement. media influences opinions...huh...

FDR was a liberal, true - but what he did was decidedly un-liberal, and I challenge you to find many conservatives of the time that were at odds with the decision.

and that wasn't me that did that, and I would never have advocated that, nor would I advocate something similar for republicans(its just ridiculous that somehow talking about tactics is the same as saying they are simian or something), unless I had a different mindset than I do today. It seems kind of abusive to say that I can't even point out a group for labeling and targetting others, because all of a sudden that makes me a 'labeler.'

From now on I'd better be careful about how I malign the KKK, maybe some of their members don't advocate violence on blacks...maybe some of them just think they should be brought back to their own country...

the reality is certain symbols start to stand for something, and from my vantage, republican punditry today is starting to stand for something hateful.

Where we continue to disagree is that you think patterns are unimportant, that we don't need a gestalt sense of things.

I do agree that when we look at patterns we shouldn't automatically malign everybody loosely connected,

but I don't agree just as a random example that we should not look at race when it comes to poverty. Once we do look at race, we may come to vastly different conclusions, but race obviously has an impact, and shouldn't just plain be ignored.

Party affiliation, I'm sorry to say does seem to have a different affinity for tactics.

I have drawn no conclusions as to republicans in general over the population at large. I have drawn conclusions about their speakers.

If more lefties talked like that I think we might see more right wing churches getting shot up, because there are ideologues in both parties....people that are more about team than truth.

On the other hand it's worth considering that such speakers don't resonate so effectively with liberals, and could never get the same kind of foot-hold that so many hate speakers on the other side manage to gain.

I don't think at any point i've drawn a conclusion as to which of these is true, but I don't think it should be off limits discussing these issues.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 3:06 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Some additional responses follow:

"Woah, I'm not sure how your argument about Japanese internment camps is a counterpoint to my argument. It seems like we're in agreement. media influences opinions...huh..."

Of course media influences opinions. That's the very purpose of propaganda. I do not feel, however, that the individual becomes any less responsible for his actions simply because he saw a television or radio broadcast. In essence, I do not believe being part of a mob shields the individual from their proverbial sins. Blame the propagandist for what they said, and blame the criminal for what they did, respectively.

"FDR was a liberal, true - but what he did was decidedly un-liberal, and I challenge you to find many conservatives of the time that were at odds with the decision."

I don't think it matters what FDR was beyond President and Afraid. He was alone in being President, but not alone in being Afraid.

"It seems kind of abusive to say that I can't even point out a group for labeling and targetting others, because all of a sudden that makes me a 'labeler.'

From now on I'd better be careful about how I malign the KKK, maybe some of their members don't advocate violence on blacks...maybe some of them just think they should be brought back to their own country..."

This is a bad analogy. The KKK is a much more narrowly defined organization with a much narrower belief system than the 'Right Wing.' Which is, you know, probably a third of the U.S. population. As for 'Right Wing Pundits' I think there are probably more of them than we can count on all our fingers and toes. I can't believe all of them say such hateful things. I'm doubtful that even most of them do, but I don't see how we can know. Most every town has a political radio station with a right wing advocate of some kind, I would think. I doubt either of us has a good idea of what they are all saying.

"Where we continue to disagree is that you think patterns are unimportant, that we don't need a gestalt sense of things."

Patterns can be important, but they can also be misused. Or is Profiling a good idea?

"I do agree that when we look at patterns we shouldn't automatically malign everybody loosely connected,"

I'm glad to hear this.

"but I don't agree just as a random example that we should not look at race when it comes to poverty. Once we do look at race, we may come to vastly different conclusions, but race obviously has an impact, and shouldn't just plain be ignored."

All right. Don't ignore things. Just adjust the size of your brush and the color of your paint to accommodate the differences in the grain, eh?

"Party affiliation, I'm sorry to say does seem to have a different affinity for tactics."

I'm not convinced that party affiliation automatically inclines someone towards particular tactics. I really hope people are more complicated than that.

"I have drawn no conclusions as to republicans in general over the population at large. I have drawn conclusions about their speakers."

Best single them out, as I've pointed out there are a lot of speakers, and we don't even know what percentage of them are committing such infractions.

"On the other hand it's worth considering that such speakers don't resonate so effectively with liberals, and could never get the same kind of foot-hold that so many hate speakers on the other side manage to gain."

I'm fairly sure I've heard of radical liberal organizations such as Ecological Terrorists and Animal Rights Terrorists who resonate quite well with hate speech, given the proper motivators. I feel strongly that the majority of liberals reject such behavior, and even groups with similar goals abhor some of the tactics these people employ. I believe the same thing about conservatives or 'Right Wingers,' putting the majority of them far from any nutcase or nutcases who choose to do harm.

"I don't think at any point i've drawn a conclusion as to which of these is true, but I don't think it should be off limits discussing these issues."

I really don't want to censor topics...
I just don't want to see innocent hands painted red, or large groups maligned indiscriminately, is all. In that, I think we have a common goal.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 3:57 PM

KWICKO

Quote:

If more lefties talked like that I think we might see more right wing churches getting shot up, because there are ideologues in both parties....people that are more about team than truth.

I doubt it. Remember, the lefties are - in general terms here; don't wanna go labeling anybody - pretty anti-gun. They might protest, or write a really stinging letter to the editor, but they're not likely to shoot up anything that doesn't come in a syringe. :)

Of course, in pointing that out, I also point out part of Anthony's point, too, about why painting a group with such broad brushstrokes can be a danger. How so? Because I'm pretty darned left-leaning in my ideology AND I really enjoy shooting guns. Yup, as the Fun-Lovin' Criminals would say, "Stick 'em up, punk, I'm the gun-lovin' liberal."

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 4:53 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I think there are probably more of them than we can count on all our fingers and toes. I can't believe all of them say such hateful things. I'm doubtful that even most of them do, but I don't see how we can know."

I get TownHall and listen to hate -- err - I mean talk -- radio, read Drudge and other sites. Not only is the majority saying hateful things, they are saying and printing and blogging hateful things without exception.

Let me repeat that - every last one of them.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 6:02 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

AnthonyT has expressed pretty much what I would say. I see this a lot. Some lunatic who associates himself with a particular point of view does something horrendous and becomes a convenient excuse by people who don’t agree with that point of view to start labeling that point of view negatively. The truth is that haters, murderers and extremists exist everywhere and because a hater associates himself with the Left, like say Kaczynski or Manson, doesn’t mean the Left is full of haters or even that Left-wing points of view are wrong. In fact, the media today is full of Left-wing opinions that are hateful and manipulative, much like those hateful and manipulative opinions who seek to relate the Right to this murderer, but this doesn‘t make Left-wing opinions wrong, anymore then Right-wing opinions are made wrong because someone who reads Coulter shoots up a church. I’m sure Rigteous9 and NewOldBrowncoat would take offense at being compared to Charles Manson, simply because they hold a Liberal perspective, but evidently they have no problem making those comparisons of the Right. It’s really time we learned to separate our philosophical and political arguments from acts of random violence, they are quite independent of one another. It’s a childish stunt, not a reasoned argument.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 6:08 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

"Let me repeat that - every last one of them."

So how many right wing radio hosts and bloggers are there, Rue? How did you find them all? How did you find time to listen and read them all? Having done all that, how did you remember what they all said or typed? Did you catalogue their hate speech on a spreadsheet?

I am expressing doubt that you could know what every right wing radio person or blogger says or does.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 6:45 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I doubt it. Remember, the lefties are - in general terms here; don't wanna go labeling anybody - pretty anti-gun. They might protest, or write a really stinging letter to the editor, but they're not likely to shoot up anything that doesn't come in a syringe. :)

Of course, in pointing that out, I also point out part of Anthony's point, too, about why painting a group with such broad brushstrokes can be a danger. How so? Because I'm pretty darned left-leaning in my ideology AND I really enjoy shooting guns. Yup, as the Fun-Lovin' Criminals would say, "Stick 'em up, punk, I'm the gun-lovin' liberal."

Extremism tends to run in cycles in the United States oscillating between Left and Right-wing extremism. Currently, Right-wing Extremism is the major threat, I think. This, however, will change soon if it hasn't already. From about the 1960s to the 1980s, Left-wing Extremism was the principle danger, and we are beginning to see extremist groups form, like MoveOn.org, which typically herald the onset of Left-wing Extremism. This is the part that the Lefties on the board won’t like - Left-wing Extremism in the US is more dangerous then Right-Wing extremism. The reason? Left-wing extremists tend to be better educated and better able to organize. Right-wing extremists tend to be poorly educated and frequently individuals. For instance, periods of Left-wing extremism tend to see more active and larger terrorist groups and more acts of terrorism then periods of Right-wing extremism. Left-wing Extremism definitely exist and the Left-wing political environment is as susceptible to it as the Right, but the Left is traditionally much more effective at it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 8:02 PM

AnthonyT,

just one point, because I don't really have too many grievances with most of what you said.

This goes to my original point,

how many "eco-terrorists" do you know of have a talk show on cable news or am radio. Sure those people are out there, but they are far more fringe than O'reilley and Hannity and Coulter and SAvage...etc.

I appreciate your attempt at being neutral, and independant of "sides", but it's a little frustrating to me that you keep coming back to "I"m pretty sure"

You don't have examples that match mine. YOu believe there are probably some out there. I think that your point would be more powerful if you found 10 or 12 examples of liberal voices(specifically those who are given a microphone and are paid to spew their hatred) saying te same kinds of things.

If you find that, you've got me check and mated. I'll be convinced that there's no difference.

And lets make one more thing clear... we're actually talking about the most prominant voices in conservative punditry. These are the very most mainstream people they've got. Limbaugh still has one of the very biggest audiences out there. O'reilley has a huge following on Fox. These aren't fringe voices from the right, they are the flagship voices.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 8:27 PM

Finn, I appreciate that you see right-wing extremism as the bigger threat today. I don't know off hand that the left was ever a bigger threat in this country, it has usually been the underdog...but power corrupts, and if the power gets consolidated on the left side of the dial, taht's where all the pricks are going to gravitate, so I might quibble, but I accept that this could oscilate.

.............

Since you said it, that the right is the bigger threat today, I take it then, that you have evidence, a pattern of behavior you've taken into account that has helped to inform your opinion, and that being said, that pointing out such things in itself is not juvenile but could be important to getting at a greater understanding of our current climate.

I will also point out,(not to leave Newoldenbrowncoat out in the cold on this one, because I think he's voicing frustration and a genuine concern that maybe this guy is a hero to some on the right), that at no point have I said that the man would be looked at as a hero by right-wingers.

I said that there's a media tactic that both demonizes people on the left and talks about violence towards us as patriotic, and I said that that has to have a real world effect.

So just to go back to your own point about right-wing extremism being the major threat today, it would seem that we are in total agreement, and this kind of bipartisanship feels good.

I think it's rather healing to have this conversation, don't you?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 8:43 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Not being a collector of political hate speech, I tried 'liberal hate speech' in google.

I don't know if this stuff is true, or who some of these people are, or what context they were under. I think some of them are comedians. Of course, I suspect a lot of the hate speech coming from right-wing pundits is intended to be funny.

Please let me know if any of these are good examples of liberal hate speech, equivelant to the right wing hate speech you have cited.

From http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:d0gVjolRpwoJ:patterico.com/2007/0
3/05/leftist-hate-speech/+liberal+hate+speech&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1

--Anthony

Brace yourself for the leftist hate:

National Public Radio legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg:

f there is retributive justice [Sen. Jesse Helms] will get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it.

USA Today syndicated columnist Julianne Malveaux, on Clarence Thomas:

I hope his wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do, of heart disease.

Washington Post syndicated columnist Richard Cohen:

For hypocrisy, for sheer gall, [Newt] Gingrich should be hanged.

Comedian and (former) talk show host Craig Kilborn [Caption under footage of George W. Bush]:

Snipers Wanted

Members of the St. Petersburg Democratic Club:

And then there’s Rumsfeld who said of Iraq “We have our good days and our bad days.” We should put this S.O.B. up against a wall and say “This is one of our bad days” and pull the trigger.

Actor Alec Baldwin on Conan O’Brien:

f we were in other countries, we would all right now, all of us together, all of us together would go down to Washington and we would stone Henry Hyde to death! We would stone him to death! [crowd cheers] Wait! Shut up! Shut up! No shut up! I’m not finished. We would stone Henry Hyde to death and we would go to their homes and we’d kill their wives and their children. We would kill their families.

Comedian Chris Rock:

If President Clinton would pardon me I would whip Starr’s ass right now. I will get a crew from Brooklyn and we will stomp him like, like, we’re Savion Glover. We’ll stomp him like it’s bringing da noise.

Director Spike Lee on Charlton Heston:

Shoot him with a .44 caliber Bulldog.

James Carville on Ken Starr:

He’s one more mistake away from not having any kneecaps.

Syndicated columnist Alexander Cockburn:

There is a sound case to be made for dropping a tactical nuclear weapon on the Cuban section of Miami. The move would be applauded heartily by most Americans. Alas, Operation Good Riddance would require the sort of mature political courage sadly lacking in Washington, D.C., these days.

Columnist, author, media pundit, journalist, and newspaper editor Dan Savage:

My plan? Get close enough to Bauer to give him the flu, which, if I am successful, will lay him flat just before the New Hampshire primary. I’ll go to Bauer’s campaign office and cough on everything. Phones and pens. Staplers and staffers. I even hatch a plan to infect the candidate himself; I’ll keep a pen in my mouth until Bauer drops by his offices to rally the troops. And when he does, I’ll approach him and ask for his autograph, handing him the pen from my flu-virus-incubating mouth.

That column also appeared on Salon.com. It was a little more than hate “speech” — the guy actually did try to give Gary Bauer the flu.

It’s racism you want?

Democrat Senator Robert Byrd:

There are white niggers. I’ve seen a lot of white niggers in my time. I’m going to use that word.

Democrat presidential candidate Jesse Jackson on Jews:

Hymies

and on New York City:

Hymietown

During his presidential campaign, Jesse Jackson was linked with (and refused to denounce) Louis Farrakhan, who has at times been linked with the Congressional Black Caucus, which also supported his Million Man March. Farrakhan is a man of the left who has been a harsh critic of President Bush.

Here’s Farrakhan on Jews:

Many of the Jews who owned the homes, the apartments in the black community, we considered them bloodsuckers because they took from our community and built their community but didn’t offer anything back to our community.

Farrakhan on Pope John Paul II:

no good cracker

Farrakhan on white people:

White people are potential humans - they haven’t evolved yet.

And again:

Murder and lying comes easy for white people.

Does it count as “hate” speech if you say you “hate” Republicans?

Howard Dean:

I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for . . .

Back to assassination wishes:

British pundit Charlie Brooker, during the presidency of George W. Bush:

John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, John Hinckley Jr. — where are you now that we need you?

Actual elected officials have engaged in hate speech:

Democrat Representative Pete Stark, speaking to a Republican:

You think you are big enough to make me, you little wimp? Come on. Come over here and make me, I dare you. You little fruitcake.

Alabama Democratic congressional incumbent Earl Hilliard, on challenger, Artur Davis:

Davis and the Jews, No Good for the Black Belt

Let’s not forget the bloggers:

Markos Moulitsas Zuniga crowed over the death of American contractors in Iraq:

I feel nothing over the death of merceneries [sic]. They aren’t in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them.

Duncan “Atrios” Black discussing ABC’s The Note:

[M]y take on The Note has always been, with apologies to Douglas Adams:

A bunch of mindless jerks who will be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.

Huffington Post blogger Tony Hendra wished for Dick Cheney to die:

O Lord, give Dick Cheney’s Heart, Our Sacred Secret Weapon, the strength to try one more time! For greater love hath no heart than that it lay down its life to rid the planet of its Number One Human Tumor.

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 8:45 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

I recently attended sunday service with a family member and the sermon covered by the pastor was regarding the congregation's TV viewing habits. He went on chastising the messages coming from the various TV shows (MTV and other programs he felt had questionable moral values).

A friend, who lives in Florida, had said that her pastor also warned her church of the dangers of watching mainstream TV and listening to questionable radio programs. She won't watch movies that even so much as have swear words. Imagine that, not even something as non-threatening as PG-13. More and more I've heard of people being told about staying away from mainstream media, but replacing them with programs that advocate "christian values."

Couple that with the hatemongers who advocate "ridding the country" of anyone who may be different. Different in their way of thinking, worshipping and generally living their lives. Where have I heard that before? Wasn't there a country in Europe that thought that way and persecuted a certain group of people because they worshipped and behaved differently?

Hmmmm! Wasn't that the country that had a king who ran roughshod over their basic rules and principles to fit his needs? Haven't millions died defending the basic freedoms that we've enjoyed (until recently) and continue to die for? We have a political party that has wooed and used the christian movement to further their own agenda. That has succeeded in duping the honest folk within that movement that they had a friend in the highest office in the land. That same friend who has ran roughshod over the basic principles and beliefs of this great country, has failed miserably in providing the religious utopia they so desparately wanted.

The so-called "hero" - fueled by the hatemongers and political magicians of the airwaves and poltical pulpits - committed a detestable act upon innocent Americans whose only crime was that they were pursuing their American dream; the freedom to worship. Period.

Nothing happens in a vacuum people. All these things that have happened over the last 10 or so years are all interrelated. Are basic freedoms have been shredded in the name of war on terrorism. Our leader tells us he does not need to answer to us because he the president. As the Church Lady would say, "How convenient!" I mention all of this because, as another poster stated, we are not thinking for ourselves. We're letting others make up our mind about things we know are wrong or should know are wrong. We listen to the "barker" at the carnival knowing full well you don't get something for nothing. We've been lied to, Hoodwinked! Think for yourselves people!
Don't believe the hype! As for me, I aim to misbehave.

The political process only works as well as it's people - Anonymous

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, August 1, 2008 11:24 PM

Thank you,

I wish you would first make sure the ones you're posting are accurate...

second I'd appreciate context...like say waht Alec Baldwyn was saying,it could be hateful in its suggestion, or it could have been making a point of American politics versus other world politics...,definitely with violent overtones, but either way it goes to my third point,

third I'd point out that most of those people on this list whos names I know are actors and entertainers, not pundits who are expected to have a firm grasp of the facts, and are not very likely to be charicaturing their own comments. I can't even be sure how the Crhis rock comment came out...was it stand up or a skit? either way was he playing a mad violent charicature or was he speaking for himself? That's the problem with putting all these in here like this.

by the way, there is a woeful short supply of links to anything regarding Kilborn and that caption. It was a long time ago and all, but I'm surprised that I couldn't find one link that wasn't heresay on the issue. Not saying it's not true, but a better researcher would have to find it.

Fourth, I'd point out that Carvill isn't a liberal, we don't want him. He is a democrat, granted.

Byrd is a racist, old hold-out from the good old dems when they used to be the conservatives. He may vote with some liberal ideas but I've never thought of him as a liberal. I'd be intersted to see that his voting record proved me wrong. I'll have to look at that.

Talking about giving somebody the flu doesn't really sound that serious to me...reprehensible if actually carried out on the other hand, even though apples and oranges when compared to killing, or lynching somebody, and frankly sounds more like farce than an actual attempt.

Howard Dean, definitely a liberal -I would like to know context and whether he was speaking about office holding republicans in teh specific. I wouldn't have too much of a hard time with taht statement, except for the fact taht half the dems should be on the same list.

Farakhan is hardly a mainstream voice for liberals. He's quite fringe, probably (though I'm not certain) even within black communities. His links to politicians etc. are not what we are discussing. If you recall the man gets no mainstream play unless it is to attack him and his hate-speech.

The St. Petersburg Democratic Club? Seriously? who the fuck are they? - I looked it up and they aint much of anything.

I'm not at all sure how Pete Stark's comments fit into anything...that's a floor argument with a specific person. I wouldn't be any more likely to include Cheney's "go fuck yourself."

..............................

You've got me on Moulitsas. I'll give you this one all the way. Daily Kos is pretty big in liberal circles, and I believe it is his blog. On the other hand, it's not radio and its not TV, and his isn't the persistent voice of the Daily Kos..

- and by the way, after he said this he lost advertisers and Kerry abandoned any connections to his site. It had repurcussions that he has since recovered from. Still, I can't knock his liberal credentials, (aside of my own opinion that such statements are not liberal), and therefore he definitely applies.

the british pundit Charlie Brooker is another good example, though I don't know him, it seems like he has a big audience. Asking where the assassin of the 21st century is when we need him is pretty stupid, and hateful.

Cockburn's statement is reprehensible. I don't know who the hell he is though. He's a columnist and he has contributed to such magazines as the Nation. A fairly minor player in that regard.

Same with the other colemnists, just because those sources just aren't as far reaching as television and radio, which I believe all my examples came from. These people don't have the same platform to spew this kind of anger, and harm-wishing.

Don't know Tony Hendra either, Huffington post is big on the other hand.

The problem with touching on columnists and bloggers though is that I haven't even begun to look at those on the republican side. You didn't really come up with many tv or radio personalities aside from actors and comedians. I maintain that there's a difference here, and I didn't go looking for Ted Nugent quotes, or Toby Keithisms.

hell, I'm tired.

I will say that some of the examples were very valid. I don't think you got up to 10 srong examples though, and my challenge is not that these don't exist at all, as I did point out the two I knew of off the top of my head, but that they are much rarer.

I've got to leave it at that right now though, and will have to read back over both of our posts in the morning.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 2, 2008 3:40 AM