The UK sucks... by Wulfenstar

I'd qualify that as the UK government sucks, actually.
They're just like us.

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 4:45 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

No the people suck too. They allowed it to happen.

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 4:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No the people suck too. They allowed it to happen.

We allowed Bush to get into the White House & Blast Iraq for totally bogus reasons, do WE suck too???

isall

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 4:56 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Yes.

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Yes.

I appreciate your consistency.

isall

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 5:46 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

While this looks alarming on the surface, it really isn't that dramatic.

Fact is this goverment is far too inept to know what to do with this kind of information. It'll most likely end up lost on a train or sat collecting fluff under the sofa of some escorts apartment that a minister was fooling around with...

I mean if you really want to gather information about terrorist organisations you hardly announce the fact aswell as inform them how you're going to do it. Do you?

It's akin to playing hide and seek and then yelling to everyone where you're looking.

"I'm looking for you in the kitchen... OK, now I'm going upstairs to see if you're under the bed!"

It's insane and really very difficult to take this or any other government seriously.

The Somnambulist - a U.K. Brown coat. Not fearful

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 6:42 AM

FREMDFIRMA

"People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people."

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 6:49 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

"A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having!" - V for Vendetta

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:07 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
"People shouldn't be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people."

Technically, isn't that what's happening? The government's afraid of what some of the people are up to, that's why it needs to keep an eye on its people.

It's governments being afraid of their people which makes them take precautions, which in turn make people afraid of their governments.

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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:12 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jypHZNgftqxSfgX2MymtfD-6oIIwD92H9CA
80

And AWAY we go down the short and vicious road to martial law, imminent domain, and police having even more right to abuse the common citizen.

The tree of liberty is getting REALLY thirsty....

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Fact is this goverment is far too inept to know what to do with this kind of information. It'll most likely end up lost on a train or sat collecting fluff under the sofa of some escorts apartment that a minister was fooling around with...

But if it's so useless and the government is so inept, then why do it at all? Terrorists, corporate Machiavellis, and government conspirators will either resort to untraceable communication or claim privilege, and the average person's life will be flayed open. For what?

AFA "letting it happen" ... we "let it happen" here too. Anyone who values their privacy should look up how their Congressperson voted on giving telcoms immunity from prosecution; and give 'em ultimate hell if they voted for it. (That includes Barack Obama)

---------------------------------
Please donate to the Electronic Frontier Foundation www.eff.org

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:10 AM

From the article:

Quote:
The council said those living in the city want the random shootings and drug-fueled violence to stop, no matter what the cost.

NO MATTER WHAT THE COST.

Careful what you wish for - you just might get it.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:30 AM

KHYRON

Having lived in a country where extreme random violence is an every-day occurrence, I can tell you that getting violence under control is the main priority to the people living in such an environment, and most of them will probably not mind an infringement in their civil liberties if it helps to stop the bloodshed. Whining about the erosion of civil liberties is justified in many, maybe most, cases, but when the crime rate is so out of control that one is too afraid to leave one's own home, what good are civil liberties then? What kind of freedom is that?

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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:32 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Look to the UK and know that is in our future, IF WE LET IT.

Thats true.

All the good TV lately is either copied from or lifted right off British TV.

Good lord I'm even drinking tea right now.

Next I'll be speaking and writing in English...DOH!

H

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 11:19 AM

Quote:
Next I'll be speaking and writing in English...DOH!

Now THAT I'd like to see!

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 1:07 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Having lived in a country where extreme random violence is an every-day occurrence

The best answer to violence isn't more violence, its plentiful jobs that pay a decent wage.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 7:46 PM

KHYRON

I wasn't talking about fighting violence with violence, I was talking about sacrificing some civil liberties to help reduce the crime rate. Thought that was clear from the context.

Talking about creating more jobs is great and all, but isn't that what pretty much every government in the world is trying to do? And what most of them are failing to get achieved? Until we reach this Utopia of 0% unemployment, should we just let criminals roam free, since the authorities would just be "fighting the symptom, not the cause"?

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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 12:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
No the people suck too. They allowed it to happen.
We allowed Bush to get into the White House & Blast Iraq for totally bogus reasons, do WE suck too???

isall

They weren't bogus reasons, pin head. 17 U.N. resolutions ?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 2:17 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

posted by TheSomnambulist

Quote:
Fact is this goverment is far too inept to know what to do with this kind of information. It'll most likely end up lost on a train or sat collecting fluff under the sofa of some escorts apartment that a minister was fooling around with...

posted by SignyM:

Quote:
But if it's so useless and the government is so inept, then why do it at all? Terrorists, corporate Machiavellis, and government conspirators will either resort to untraceable communication or claim privilege, and the average person's life will be flayed open. For what?

To be seen to be doing something.

Right now the British government has very little control of the running of this country. Sounds extreme but really it is the case.

The bank of England call the shots in terms of finance and interest rates and they adhere to a higher power (Share Holders, market forces. ie nothing that the government has any grip on) so when they [BoE] feel the interest rate should rise, they do so, irrespective of the government, who kinda stand by their side saying:

"Er yes, go on then we'll let you"

But they actually can't stop them.

All our industry has been privatized so they hold no claim to industrial profit except that which they can tax, however as we now all know to avoid heavy tax laws major industry has gone overseas, to India and China, and industry doesn't care about loyalty to the state, it merely goes where the green is.

So what does our government have? Well not much but they do still have the Armed Forces. And oddly enough they do still listen to the government.

So what better way for the Government to be seen to be incontrol, than to decide to fight terrorism. Whether it is with our armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan or with 'counter' terrorist measures such as the one mentioned in the article in the guardian or with the on-going proposal to introduce i.D. cards.

All this to the casual observer would be enough to keep them content that their government is doing something and that they are still in control of their country.

I beg to differ, but then I'm just some doofus who has absolutely no say in the running of the country anyway, I mean heck we have a Prime Minister who none of us voted for. And guess what his previous job was....

Chancellor of the Exchequer - stooge to the bank of England.

So yeah.... we're Humped!!!

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 2:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Having lived in a country where extreme random violence is an every-day occurrence, I can tell you that getting violence under control is the main priority to the people living in such an environment, and most of them will probably not mind an infringement in their civil liberties if it helps to stop the bloodshed. Whining about the erosion of civil liberties is justified in many, maybe most, cases, but when the crime rate is so out of control that one is too afraid to leave one's own home, what good are civil liberties then? What kind of freedom is that?

That's the kind of freedom that Liberals want for you. They love and adore criminality and mayhem. Free Tookie! Close Guantanamo! They certainly don't approve of law and order, unless it involves a Bush Administration official. They would sooner wish death on all of us before they give up any civil right, even for foreign terrorists and illegal alien criminals trying to kill us. That's why the NY & LA Slimes prints our National Security secrets and programs on the front page. They want their terrorist readership to be informed.

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

That's the kind of freedom that Liberals want for you. They love and adore criminality and mayhem.

Oh please, Jong, are you going for my title of "Over-Reacter" here?

Or should I state that all Conservatives want martial law & war?

Let'sstayofftheedgeisall

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:31 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

It should also be said that crime in the UK skyrocketed after they took their guns away.

Hell, they even took their swords.

So, the slums get even worse because the few good folks can't even protect themselves.

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 4:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
are you going for my title of "Over-Reacter" here?

Whoa...good title!

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Talking about creating more jobs is great and all, but isn't that what pretty much every government in the world is trying to do?

No, because...

Quote:
The bank of England call the shots in terms of finance and interest rates and they adhere to a higher power (Share Holders, market forces. ie nothing that the government has any grip on) so when they [BoE] feel the interest rate should rise, they do so, irrespective of the government, who kinda stand by their side saying: "Er yes, go on then we'll let you"

So as long as government acts like a slave to Big Money and not as a representative of people, they will continue to substitute violence and coercion for an actual- yanno- solution. At the end of that spectrum you wind up with places like Guatemala or Zimbabwe.

---------------------------------
Any idea, no matter how much you may agree with it, can be radicalized and employed as an excuse for violence. There is no such thing as a righteous or untouchable philosophy, and when you start thinking that there is, you have become an extremist.- Finn Mac Cumhal

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:35 AM

Quote:

They weren't bogus reasons, pin head. 17 U.N. resolutions ?

So now you're up to SEVENTEEN U.N. resolutions that ordered us to invade Iraq?

They were bogus reasons. So bogus that the White House even had documents faked after the fact to try to bolster its "reasoning" for invasion and occupation.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

So now you're up to SEVENTEEN U.N. resolutions that ordered us to invade Iraq?

AU is a total back birth in the world of politics.

OOOPPS!!! Sorry Geezer, I'm demeaning peeps again...let me re-phrase that...I disagree with AU's considered opinion on that topic, but I respect his right on this foru

Felgercarb...I can't do it....

His head is filled with go-se on this, I can't pretend different.

Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 6:42 AM

Quote:
They would sooner wish death on all of us before they give up any civil right, even for foreign terrorists and illegal alien criminals trying to kill us.

And the conservatives would sooner bring death to all of us BY TAKING AWAY EVERY civil right, even for natural-born and law-abiding citizens.

Same logic, looked at from a different vantage point.

You seem to be saying that we should be willing to give up SOME of our civil rights so that you can feel more secure. Which rights would you have me give up? How about the Second Amendment right to bear arms? Once you're safe, you surely couldn't have any need for your guns, right? And gawd knows the Homeland Security department is going to keep you safe and sound from all those terrorists that seem to be hiding under the beds of the conservatives. You know, those terrorists that you're about 100,000 times more likely to be struck by lightning than attacked by.

You'd gladly throw away ALL your civil liberties to feel just a little bit safer in your own skin.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

And the conservatives would sooner bring death to all of us BY TAKING AWAY EVERY civil right, even for natural-born and law-abiding citizens.

Same logic, looked at from a different vantage point.

No logic at all barney. With all the civil rights that Bush has supposedly taken from you why are you still alive then?

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

And the conservatives would sooner bring death to all of us BY TAKING AWAY EVERY civil right, even for natural-born and law-abiding citizens.

Same logic, looked at from a different vantage point.

No logic at all barney. With all the civil rights that Bush has supposedly taken from you why are you still alive then?

No logic is right - at least on your part. So by the same lack of logic you use, with all the aid and comfort the terrorists have gotten from "them lib'rals" why aren't you dead yet?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 7:39 AM

Phone taps don't kill people, terrorists do.

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Thursday, August 14, 2008 3:36 PM