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South Ossetia is inhabited mostly by ethnic Ossetians who speak a language remotely related to Farsi. Georgians account for less than one-third of the population....By tradition, the Ossetians have had good relations with Russians and were regarded as loyal citizens, first of the Russian empire and later of the Soviet Union. They sided with the Kremlin when Bolshevik forces occupied Georgia in the early 1920s and, as part of the carve-up which followed, the South Ossetian Autonomous Region was created in Georgia and North Ossetia was formed in Russia.

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Originally posted by Hero:
The real question is how this will affect Atlanta Falcons home games and the price of peaches.

Cause its Georgia...get it...Georgia.

The Russian General is named Williamovich Tceumseva Shermonov...

Georgia, Georgia, no peace I find
Just an old sweet song keeps Georgia on my mind.


H

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Originally posted by SignyM:
...as part of the carve-up which followed, the South Ossetian Autonomous Region was created in Georgia and North Ossetia was formed in Russia.

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Seems like a shame that we spent all that time and effort building a military specifically to take on the Russians, and never got a chance to use it. Maybe redemption is at hand.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
We DID use it; in fact, we still are. Just not against the Russians. We depleted our massive military might against people with rocks and roadside bombs. 5.5 years later, they still haven't recognized our policy of "peace through superior firepower".

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Originally posted by SignyM:
I'm surprised that nobody said If you think people should be able to be part of any group they want, why are you so bothered by "illegal" immigration?" And indeed, I haven't been able to reconcile that gap.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Just wait 'til they get to Serenity Valley... I'm thinkin' the Georgians might do the impossible, and that will make them mighty.

Or they could get wiped out to the last man.

What I'm wondering is, where does this leave the U.S.? We've been supporting Georgia's bid to join NATO, but we've also been trying to play nice with the Russkies. So what do WE do now? Take a side? Sit it out? Depend on the [GASP!] UN?!

Beats the shit outta me...

M

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Hold on to your hats; it could be a bumpy ride!

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Pattern of Exercises

Despite efforts to downplay it in the US media, there is a very dramatic war that has broken out between Georgia and Russia. Reports are coming out now (via the Russian news media) that perhaps American soldiers and/or Mercs (Blackwater) are on the ground ‘advising’, some ‘advising’ to their deaths. Well that sounds like it might be true or just as easily Russian propaganda, on the face of it anyway.

If you go back just a little bit you will see that last month American forces participated in an exercise with Georgia practicing the scenario that is currently unfolding. It was important enough to warrant a visit from Condi Rice to Georgia even (wonder if she got on the plane thinking she was going to the southern state…)

What of it, you might ask. If you look at recent history, there have been two other times widely known that an event of import was practiced just before or DURING the actual event. The two events I am speaking of are Sep 11, 2001 and the 7/7 bombings in London. Both of these events were being practiced (planned months ahead of time) when they actually started. In the case of the 7/7 bombings, an interview was shown with one of the coordinators of the exercise saying ‘We were practicing this at the exact locations so when it happened for real, we had to shift into real world mode right away.’

Of course I am sure this is ALL coincidence, right?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
There's little if any evidence of that...

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Even more importantly, if Russia decides to keep going and invade Georgia proper, will the US come to Georgia's defense?

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Originally posted by Hero:
Given today's news Russia is taking the opportunity to 'liberate' the whole country and its oil pipeline now since next year Georgia was expected to get NATO membership.

H

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Starting to look like Russia wants to protect its European oil monopoly, and isn't above killing a lot of Georgians to do so. It'll be interesting to see if they can get away with such actions without the bleeding hearts screaming "NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!" Bet we won't hear a peep.

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Originally posted by Hero:
Given today's news Russia is taking the opportunity to 'liberate' the whole country and its oil pipeline now since next year Georgia was expected to get NATO membership.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I have some suspicions.

Look at the geographical positioning of Georgia, and potential supply routes for their support of middle east allies - and tell me it does not occur to you that this particular set of events might have been "helped along" by certain someones intelligence people ?

There's little if any evidence of that, but just sayin it's awfully damned convenient.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

And to be perhaps a bit crass, it ain't OUR fekkin problem

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Meh, I said suspicions, and that is what I meant - unlike wingnuts of any stripe, I never get the two confused.

To date, I've not really seen enough evidence to say this set of events was helped along by anyone, but it would explain the rather bizarre and coincidental timing, is all.

If the Georgians have any sense at all they won't try to pull off a toe to toe stand hoping the rest of the world will bail them out, the rest of the world is rather good at not keeping promises like that, explicit or implied - they'd be better off sucking them in and bleeding them white like the Mujas did in Afghanistan.

Any way you slice it though, this is gonna be ugly, sure.

And to be perhaps a bit crass, it ain't OUR fekkin problem, nor should we waste our resources on it, we're stretched thin enough as it is trying to play global dominion when we got a shitload of problems at home needing to be addressed.

We needs be solving OUR problems before worrying about anyone elses, dammit.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Originally posted by participant:

Pattern of Exercises

perhaps American soldiers and/or Mercs (Blackwater) are on the ground ‘advising’, some ‘advising’ to their deaths.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I have some suspicions.

Look at the geographical positioning of Georgia, and potential supply routes for their support of middle east allies - and tell me it does not occur to you that this particular set of events might have been "helped along" by certain someones intelligence people ?

There's little if any evidence of that, but just sayin it's awfully damned convenient.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The whole world now is stinking with the stench of Liberal Appeasement. It reeks out of all the current events of the day. Limp-wristed European-influenced IOC decision to give un-worthy China the Olympic Games (I guess Nazi Germany wasn't available this time)...what a joke!
European appeasement of Russia solely for oil supply allows Russia to go back to the good 'ole KGB USSR days. European appeasement of Russia that has prevented Georgia & Ukraine from joining NATO; whatcha gonna do now Europe? Watch all the new democracies in Eastern Europe fall back under the Iron Curtain? Their appeasement has really come back to roost right on their front door.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The whole world now is stinking with the stench of Liberal Appeasement. It reeks out of all the current events of the day. Limp-wristed European-influenced IOC decision to give un-worthy China the Olympic Games (I guess Nazi Germany wasn't available this time)...what a joke!
European appeasement of Russia solely for oil supply allows Russia to go back to the good 'ole KGB USSR days. European appeasement of Russia that has prevented Georgia & Ukraine from joining NATO; whatcha gonna do now Europe? Watch all the new democracies in Eastern Europe fall back under the Iron Curtain? Their appeasement has really come back to roost right on their front door.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
The Hungarian uprising was in part fomented by the VOA's constant barrage of propaganda. The people who took part in it were not only students, but also con-men, ex-nobility, and leftover fascists from WWI. Hubby recalls several "moles" in the uprising's side who were hung from lamposts and killed by razor-blade cuts. (The old fascists really knew how to make people suffer.) Many people were glad to see the Russians roll in.

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If Georgia does fall under Russian control, either by regime change or through tight political control, then Russia will control all the Pipelines into Europe and will be in a better place to dictate terms to Europe and NATO.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If Georgia does fall under Russian control, either by regime change or through tight political control, then Russia will control all the Pipelines into Europe and will be in a better place to dictate terms to Europe and NATO.

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Originally posted by Riverlove:
I don't know if there really is a quizinart hatrack or not, but I do know that little sis, aka Alicia Witt, turned out to be quite exceptional.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Where's the Quisatz Haderach when you need him?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
I agree with most of Finn's analysis, but this

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If Georgia does fall under Russian control, either by regime change or through tight political control, then Russia will control all the Pipelines into Europe and will be in a better place to dictate terms to Europe and NATO.

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says that, in the end, it really is about the oil - or at least the pipelines and control. He who controls the spice controls the universe...

Where's the Quisatz Haderach when you need him?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
The Russians had said point-blank that if we insisted on pushing ahead with our missile-defense system in Eastern Europe - pushed up to the Russian border to somehow protect against IRANIAN nuclear missile attack - that they would be forced to respond militarily. If they simply wanted a military strike that would show the West that they were displeased, they could have hit some of the proposed installations in Eastern Europe. They did not. They chose to strike at a choke point for oil transshipment, a strategy sure to wreak the most economic havoc on us, while doing the least real damage to the facilities involved.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Oil is the scapegoat for anything any nation does.

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