The Big Show (Obama...not the wrestler) by Hero

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Big Show (Obama...not the wrestler)

POSTED BY: HERO
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 3, 2008 10:06
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Friday, August 29, 2008 2:24 AM

Here's my take.

1. Money. Both Barrack and wife come from poor families and devoted themselves to public interest careers. Where did their money come from? They both had student loan debt and both didn't work their high paying jobs long enough to make much.

2. Did Obama spend 15 minutes brutally attacking John McCain and then say if you 'don't have a record you scare people into running from the other guy'? I heard it.

3. Overall a good speech, the specifics don't match, but thats not really important to liberals. The fireworks show could have been better. They should have hired some Chinese to do it for them. It was nice to see a Democrat running on a tax cut, war hawk (other then Iraq), conservative platform. Why, if he was pro life he'd be a Republican. That really means that the Democrats have figured out that to beat the man you need to be the man (Rick Flair always said to 'be the man you have to beat the man' which makes a little more sense).

4. Now we see how it plays. I say this settles into about a 6-8pt bounce after a couple days.

H

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Friday, August 29, 2008 3:31 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Why, if he was pro life he'd be a Republican.

Funny, I was thinking pretty much the same about McCane - if he was pro-choice, he'd be a Democrat. And the Republicans think so, too; how else do you explain the last several months of Republicans shouting, "But McCane's a LIBERAL! He's not a conservative!"

Seems they're both "centrists" - how odd that the two major parties would nominate people who are fairly down-the-middle on most issues... I bet that almost never happens... ;)

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, August 29, 2008 4:45 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Seems they're both "centrists"

McCain is a Centrist running as a conservative. Obama is a radical liberal running as a conservative running as a centrist.

Republican Conservatives have won 7 of the last 10 national elections. Liberal Democrats have 1 of 10. Moderater Democrats have 2 of 10. That does not bode well for a Liberal Obama, he needs to be Conservative/Moderate Obama.

H

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Friday, August 29, 2008 4:54 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Republican Conservatives have won 7 of the last 10 national elections. Liberal Democrats have 1 of 10. Moderater Democrats have 2 of 10.

So in the interest of fairness, it's time for a Democrat to win, wouldn't you say?

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Friday, August 29, 2008 6:07 AM

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Anyone who actually listened to Barack's speech last night and was unmoved emotionally must surely have a lump of coal where their heart should be.. Obama is a masterful speaker, and speech writer as well - when he said..

Quote:
America, we are better than these last eight years. We are a better country than this....

Tonight, more Americans are out of work and more are working harder for less. More of you have lost your homes and even more are watching your home values plummet. More of you have cars you can't afford to drive, credit card bills you can't afford to pay, and tuition that's beyond your reach.

These challenges are not all of government's making. But the failure to respond is a direct result of a broken politics in Washington and the failed policies of George W. Bush.

Tonight, I say to the people of America, to Democrats and Republicans and independents across this great land -- enough! "Eight is enough."

The word "Enough" echoed over the 84 thousand people in that stadium as well as in my living room - and i felt like a dark cloud was beginning to lift from the years of war and indifference that we've gotten from Washington in the past seven and a half years -

And if people can't see the contrast in ideology between these two parties - these two candidates - then the attack ads, vicious slander, mud slinging, and outright lying are all we have left, and that, IMO, is no way to choose our president.

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 3:08 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:
Anyone who actually listened to Barack's speech last night and was unmoved emotionally must surely have a lump of coal where their heart should be..

I was not moved. I'm also orginally from West Virginia, so you may be correct.

I found his speech light on dramatics, well delivered, and completely lacking in substance.

Normally he delivers a vegetarian speech (no meat) with lots of hot sauce. This speech was a vegetarian speech (with tofu and soy chips mixed in for meatless protein) and no hot sauce.

It was the same speech Democrats have been giving every four years since 1976. It was still enough to make Chris Matthews cry, but I was looking for more.

H

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 3:19 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:
The word "Enough" echoed over the 84 thousand people in that stadium as well as in my living room

Enough will continue to echo if he's elected.

You see, his plan calls for enough taxes to pay for enough programs to support enough people who can't get enough jobs or enough money to support them in an economy which will collapse under his economic plan.

His policies will allow Iran to produce enough nuclear bombs to destroy Isreal and enough to use on selected American targets as well.

He will let in enough illegal immigrants to swamp our ability to support and integrate them.

There will finally be enough government to meet all of our needs...especially the ones we could have met better on our own.

There will be enough health care for all Americans, but not enough to give good health care to any American.

Enough...Americans are sick of Obama.

H

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 3:40 AM

KWICKO

Quote:

Enough...Americans are sick of Obama.

I don't know... Judging by the relative lack of protesters in Denver, and the mess that is the convention in Minnesota, Americans seem to be sick of the same old thing, which is exactly what they're being offered by the Republicans.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 4:05 AM

WASHNWEAR

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Seems they're both "centrists"

McCain is a Centrist running as a conservative. Obama is a radical liberal running as a conservative running as a centrist.

So you're saying that Obama is really Robert Downey, Jr...? Ya know, that does kinda add up...

It was like I was a dude...tryin' to pick a dude...from among these other two dudes...what was the question again?

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 5:44 AM

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
There will be enough health care for all Americans, but not enough to give good health care to any American.

It is obvious that the two of us are on extreme opposite ends of the political spectrum, and that it is a total waste of time trying to change the others view of this world we share, but if I understand your statement about heath care correctly, you would negate millions of Americans, (refusing them any form of health care), in favor of a privileged few who are wealthy enough afford any coverage they choose. That's probably an overstatement, but it gets to the gist of the problem of healthcare for all citizens. It is an issue with no easy answers, but it one that Senator Obama and the majority of the Democratic party is willing to take on and attempt to change for the better of all Americans.

Once again, I couldn't disagree more with you on Barack's speech. May I suggest that you find a copy and re-read it. There is more than just a little substance there.

If you can bring yourself to look at Huffington Post, here is a copy of the speech.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/28/barack-obama-democratic-c_n_1
22224.html

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 7:05 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:
I understand your statement about heath care correctly, you would negate millions of Americans, (refusing them any form of health care), in favor of a privileged few who are wealthy enough afford any coverage they choose.

I had no health insurance for a lot of years and it turned out I had some health care. Not all the health care I wanted, but some and gosh...there were sometimes I had to do without cable so I could make medical payments.

I agree the current system is broken. I do not agree that the Democrats can find the solution.

It seems the best solution is cost based. Republican plans are sketchy at best and stop-gap place holders at worst. Democratic plans include the complete nationalization of close to 20% of our economy. But a cost-based solution would bring down the cost of treatment AND the cost of insurance by using tort reform and tax incentives.

H

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 12:09 PM

KWICKO

Fearmongering much?

Quote:

Enough will continue to echo if he's elected.

You see, his plan calls for enough taxes to pay for enough programs to support enough people who can't get enough jobs or enough money to support them in an economy which will collapse under his economic plan.

Yes, McCain wants enough taxes to pay for enough military to support enough soldiers to get us into enough wars to finally once and for all collapse our country's ability to defend itself.

Quote:
He will let in enough illegal immigrants to swamp our ability to support and integrate them.

Who was it that supported Bush's amnesty program? Oh yeah, that was McCain. And he wants to build just enough of a wall that it will put enough illegals to work in America to make enough of a stopgap until people along the border finally scream "ENOUGH!"

Quote:
There will finally be enough government to meet all of our needs...especially the ones we could have met better on our own.

Yes, there will finally be enough government to spy on enough citizens just enough to render them to Gitmo so they can be tortured just enough to almost convict them and put them in jail just long enough that McCain and Company can get the hell out of dodge after having done just enough to get elected.

Quote:
There will be enough health care for all Americans, but not enough to give good health care to any American.

Under McCain, there will be enough health care for all Americans who make enough, but not enough to give any health care to most Americans.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Tuesday, September 2, 2008 6:43 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"His policies will allow Iran to produce enough nuclear bombs to destroy Isreal and enough to use on selected American targets as well."

Hello,

You don't have to worry about Iran. When Israel deems them sufficiently threatening, they will slip the leash, and fire and brimstone will rain from the sky.

I mean, hell, if they'll attack us, they'll have no problem taking on Iran.

I bet they can even do it in less than a week, this time.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Wednesday, September 3, 2008 6:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Allow me to point out the blindingly obvious.

All the GOP is offering is more fear, doom and gloom - and they've prettymuch run out of mileage on that tired old horse as it is.

Obama tries to keep a hopeful note, and offers hope - and having been ground down by years and years of fear, doom and gloom, most americans will cling desperately to any hope offered, even if it turns out to be false, because it's SOMETHING better than assured misery, at least a CHANCE of betterment.

In effect, Obama is letting his opponents do his campaigning FOR him, cause all he has to do is sound vaguely hopeful, and the GOP campaign runs their supporters right to him with the constant fearmongering.

Hell, I could stand Carl Panzram's corpse up on stage in drag, and STILL get folk to vote for him just by hanging a sign around his neck...

"Not a Republican"

THAT's how bad they've boned it, ok ?

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, September 3, 2008 6:33 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"But a cost-based solution would bring down the cost of treatment AND the cost of insurance by using tort reform and tax incentives."

Bullshit. Every modern country except the US has government-provided health care. They spend far less per capita, get everyone covered AND their people live longer, healthier lives.

Get a grip, will 'ya ? Or a least a fucking clue.

***************************************************************
Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.

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Wednesday, September 3, 2008 7:40 AM

KWICKO

Quote:

All the GOP is offering is more fear, doom and gloom - and they've prettymuch run out of mileage on that tired old horse as it is.

Obama tries to keep a hopeful note, and offers hope - and having been ground down by years and years of fear, doom and gloom, most americans will cling desperately to any hope offered, even if it turns out to be false, because it's SOMETHING better than assured misery, at least a CHANCE of betterment.

Thanks, Frem - that's exactly the way I see it, too. It's not as if I'm blindered enough to think that Obama is the Messiah (where the hell do the Republicans come up with these ideas, and why must EVERYTHING they do be couched in Biblical terms?) - I just hold out that small sliver of hope that he hasn't been utterly corrupted, bought off, and co-opted by the Powers That Be, just yet.

Do I think he's the gallant knight on the milk-white steed, galloping in to save us from the dragons and the monsters behind every bush (or should that be Bush?)? No. I *HOPE* he's just sane enough that he'll allow us to, in essence, hit "reset" on America and undo the last eight years - pull ourselves out of the muck, shake our heads, look around, and say, "Whoa - that was weird."

This could be a defining moment for us as a nation... or it could be just more of the same old failed policies. Given the alternatives, I'm willing to take a chance on change.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Wednesday, September 3, 2008 9:31 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

In the struggle to restore democracy, freedom and justice McCain is a dead end, the immoveable roadblock.

But I see a President Obama as the beginning of a long, hard process, not the end goal. He may be moveable - but we'll have to push him. Every. Step. Forward.

***************************************************************
No Illusions Is All

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Wednesday, September 3, 2008 10:06 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
but we'll have to push him. Every. Step. Forward.

One can hope he's easier to move than Conyers, who's had my boot planted in his ass for a damn long time, but seems content to hide under the Judiciary committe table like the bitch he is.

Hell, even his WIFE has more balls than he does.

-F

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