A blow for Palin fans everywhere.... by MrBlueSun

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Chris, we're dealing with the hard-core authoritarian right here:

And the funny thing is they probably see themselves as moderate...

Quote:
Finn has unmasked himself

He actually used to be more moderate, but this Republican 2008 loss is scaring him into an ultra-conservative corner, I fear. He is no longer rational in these matters. Plus: now that he's unmasked, we know who he is, and can get to him by threatening his beloved Reagan statuette!!! Muhuhuhahahaha!!!

Quote:
All they want to do is be folded into the bosom of their authority-figure, to see as they see, to think as they think and speak as they speak. They're frightened of "the other". I don't know what the answer is, but appeals to rationality won't work.

The answer is to treat them like the desperate, limited neural pathway junkies that they are. Would we be angry at a blind child that can't see? My friend Signy, we need only pity the weak-minded, not demand greater synaptic function!
Rationality is a gift to the clear of mind, and out of reach of the slaves to the gospel.

Rev. Chrisisall

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 6:28 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There is something to Herbert's scifi mantra "Fear is the mind-killer"

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

They haven't faced their fears. They won't even ADMIT they're afraid.
---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 6:51 AM

And the Dune-esque right-winger words:

"It is by Bush alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the juice of NeoCon that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire blood, the blood becomes a warning.
It is by Bush alone I set my mind in motion..."

isall

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 7:41 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Todd was registered for a few yrs, but only ACTIVE for like 2.
And Barack worked with Ayers for ONLY five years, actually seeing him face to face less than a dozen time and participated in NONE of the Weather Underground activities, seeing as all that wa going on when he was... er... eight. Don't you think there's a qualitative difference between being an ACTIVE MEMBER of a secessionist movement, and working with someone on a committee for education reform who had a (long ago) past history? I certainly think so! Why izzit you can excuse the one but not the other? Whatever happened to rationality? As others have so eloquently said, if the situation was reversed... if Michell Obama had been an active member of a secessionist movement you'd be all over THAT like white in rice. Instead you find all kinds of excuses what that shoe is on YOUR candidate's foot!

It's not just Ayers, as you know,but the culmination of Ayers, Rezko and Wright which has folks worried about Obama. Ayers should have been pointed out MONTHS ago, and Rezko is getting almost zero play by the media, which should also change.

To be honest, I'd rather Michelle be for leaving this country than hating it, as she clearly does. But on one hand , you have the Presidential candidate himself being associated w/ some questionable characters, and just for kicks and giggles, the Left tries to play quid pro quo w/ the opposition's VP candidates HUSBAND ???

Quote:

Fuck you both, assholes!

See? Even you don't buy your own tripe. You got nothing,so you're left w/ this sad quote.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
One can be a secessionist and still love one’s country.
Oh, I get it, if they're Republican, right? But if you're NOT Republican, having a meeting with a terrorist means you HATE this country...see, this is why I can't take you seriously anymore, Finn, if Obama was a secessionist, you'd be flaming him for it, and if Palin was meeting with a terrorist, you'd say she was gathering info on other points of view- you are so laughably skewed in one direction, yet you seem able to convince yourself you're not somehow.

Once again, you’re the one that is skewed. You invented all of this. I never said that a secessionist loves his country as long as he’s a Republican or meeting with a terrorist means you hate your country if you’re not a Republican. This is all you’re imagination. You’re too afraid to listen to what I’m actually saying, and that’s why I have trouble taking you seriously, much as I have trouble taking Signym seriously. Both of you seem more interested in disfiguring an opinion that differs from your own, instead of understanding it.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:20 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I never said that a secessionist loves his country as long as he’s a Republican or meeting with a terrorist means you hate your country if you’re not a Republican.

Your behavior makes your prejudice clear. You clearly apply different standards for Republicans and Democrats so any overt prejudicial statement on your part is moot.

Quote:
you have the Presidential candidate himself being associated w/ some questionable characters, and just for kicks and giggles, the Left tries to play quid pro quo w/ the opposition's VP candidates HUSBAND ???

It's called sleeping with the enemy.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Note the difference from the Ayers situation: you would oppose your friends based on what you know about them, not based on some schmoe they had a cup of coffee with a decade ago.

Hey, if you want to argue against Obama's policies, please do. But policies are clearly not what this Ayers thing is about.

As has been stated already, no one is suggesting that Obama is a terrorist because he has associated himself with one. But to suggest that it says nothing about Obama is to assume the nature of that association, and that’s not really possible. We don’t really know that. By itself, it’s not that disconcerting, but when you throw in people Wright, whom Obama has had a close relationship to for many years, it starts to become questionable. If Obama spent 20 years attending a church that preached hate, then why wouldn’t he have a more involved relationship with Ayers? This is what bothers people.

Quote:
Originally posted by swish:
Oh, I see. Yes, clearly it's written in the Universal Secessionist Charter that one must not ever go beyond Hate Factor 3, while the Friends of Obama Manifesto demands a Hate Factor of at least 7. Indeed, it's right there in the rules!!

What in the hell are you smoking, AURaptor?

I think the question is what are you smoking? Because while it is true that secessionists of various types have taken arms and even become terrorists, that is not the nature of most secessionists, anymore then it is the nature of most Communist. However, as it turns out the particular Communist that Obama chose to associate himself with, is in fact, one of those Communists that chose to practice violence and terrorism. The same cannot be said for Palin.

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
I never said that a secessionist loves his country as long as he’s a Republican or meeting with a terrorist means you hate your country if you’re not a Republican.
Your behavior makes your prejudice clear. You clearly apply different standards for Republicans and Democrats so any overt prejudicial statement on your part is moot.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ahahahahahahahah :sniker: :sniker: Ahahahahah

Oh wait...

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 8:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Once again, you’re the one that is skewed. You invented all of this. I never said that a secessionist loves his country as long as he’s a Republican or meeting with a terrorist means you hate your country if you’re not a Republican. This is all you’re imagination. You’re too afraid to listen to what I’m actually saying

Bullshit- Finn, I'm frankly tired of HAVING to TRY SO HARD to understand you- either learn the fucking English language, or stop being intentionally fucking cryptic!
If you rush to defend every NeoCon asswipe without a brain- SURE, you're gonna seem like an apologist toady. And I'm also sick of the "You couldn't know" crap...you know that saying, "walks like a duck..."? Solid, court-admissible evidence is sometimes hard to come by, however, patterns can be used to detect truths and lies, but you don't want to admit that, it might send your world into a tizzy. You're so oblivious to how you sound if you think for even one moment that you're anywhere near the middle of the road, or somewhat objective. It's always, and I mean ALWAYS default to status quo for you, and why not- you have a pretty good life, why empathize with innocent civvies in the path of the war machine? Why even imagine that your brain works better than some pissant Chief of Staff asshole- but boy you sure are superior to us utopian dreamers that want some measure of accountability from the elected officials who SUPPOSEDLY work FOR us....

If I'm off base here, please feel free to point out where I'm wrong, just don't go into two paragraphs about HOW I'm making this all up in my head, and target precisely where I'm in error, okay????

Chrisisall

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 9:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Once again, you’re the one that is skewed. You invented all of this. I never said that a secessionist loves his country as long as he’s a Republican or meeting with a terrorist means you hate your country if you’re not a Republican. This is all you’re imagination. You’re too afraid to listen to what I’m actually saying
Bullshit- Finn, I'm frankly tired of HAVING to TRY SO HARD to understand you- either learn the fucking English language, or stop being intentionally fucking cryptic!
If you rush to defend every NeoCon asswipe without a brain- SURE, you're gonna seem like an apologist toady. And I'm also sick of the "You couldn't know" crap...you know that saying, "walks like a duck..."? Solid, court-admissible evidence is sometimes hard to come by, however, patterns can be used to detect truths and lies, but you don't want to admit that, it might send your world into a tizzy. You're so oblivious to how you sound if you think for even one moment that you're anywhere near the middle of the road, or somewhat objective. It's always, and I mean ALWAYS default to status quo for you, and why not- you have a pretty good life, why empathize with innocent civvies in the path of the war machine? Why even imagine that your brain works better than some pissant Chief of Staff asshole- but boy you sure are superior to us utopian dreamers that want some measure of accountability from the elected officials who SUPPOSEDLY work FOR us....

If I'm off base here, please feel free to point out where I'm wrong, just don't go into two paragraphs about HOW I'm making this all up in my head, and target precisely where I'm in
error, okay????

I did point out where you were wrong. It was the part that you invented in your head. Yes it is true that I don’t have that much against a Governor practicing his or her job to fire an employee he or she doesn’t feel is working out – whether they are Republican or Democrat. Yes, it is true, that I don’t see anything particularly wrong with someone trying to get a bad cop fired, whether they are Republican or Democrat. And yes it is true that I do see something wrong with someone attending a church for 20 years that espoused racial supremacy, whether they are Republican or Democrat. And yes it is true that I find something very disconcerting about personal associations with actual terrorists, whether they are Republican or Democrat.

Why the hell do I have spell out “whether they are Republican or Democrat” after every comment I make to prevent you from attacking my character? Probably because you don’t have a leg to stand on in this discussion and probably because you know that the skeletons in Obama’s closet seem to be a hell of a lot more scary then those in Palin’s. If you want to impress upon me that Palin is scarier then Obama, then you need to take the advise I’ve already given you, and find something ELSE (if you can), because this doesn’t even start to equate to Obama’s skeletons.

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 9:35 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Quote:

Fuck you both, assholes!

See? Even you don't buy your own tripe. You got nothing,so you're left w/ this sad quote.

Is that how it works in your world, 'Rappy? So when you lost it and said to me, in another thread, "Fuck you, asshole!", that meant that you had nothing left, and you don't believe your own tripe? Is that what you're now saying?

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 9:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Why the hell do I have spell out “whether they are Republican or Democrat” after every comment I make to prevent you from attacking my character?

Where did I attack your character???
I attacked your politics & ability to make them as clear as you'd like to, not your character...

And for the record, yeah, Obama has had some associations that don't thrill me either, but the alternative is pure brainlessness, and we've already seen how that works out...

And also, 'bad cop'? Whoda said he was a bad cop, besides the Palins, I mean? You seem to have jumped to that conclusion, again a seeming lean, coincidentally, to the right. From what I read he was merely a questionable husband, or your basic, average jerk, and that in no way translates into being a cop worthy of being kicked off the force, as far as MY understanding goes...ooooohhh but big sis Sarah gonna learn him sumthin', yo?

Chrisisall

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Where did I attack your character???
I attacked your politics & ability to make them as clear as you'd like to, not your character...

You were putting words in my mouth in an attempt to make me appear to be unreasonably biased. As far as attacks on character go that’s probably pretty light, especially for this board, but I didn’t appreciate it nonetheless.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
And also, 'bad cop'? Whoda said he was a bad cop, besides the Palins, I mean? You seem to have jumped to that conclusion, again a seeming lean, coincidentally, to the right. From what I read he was merely a questionable husband, or your basic, average jerk, and that in no way translates into being a cop worthy of being kicked off the force, as far as MY understanding goes...ooooohhh but big sis Sarah gonna learn him sumthin', yo?

I don’t know that the guy was a bad cop, but my understanding is that it very likely was the case. He used death threats against his father-in-law. He was at least suspected of domestic violence. He tassered an 11 year old boy as an off duty stunt. And there was at least some considerable evidence that he drove while drinking. This doesn’t strike me as a guy who is a stand-up officer. And if someone tried to get this guy fired, I’m really not going to bat for him, so why are you? According to you, it seems because of Sarah Palin, "big sis Sarah," so perhaps you're more guilty of what you accuse me of.

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You were putting words in my mouth in an attempt to make me appear to be unreasonably biased.

But...you ARE unreasonably biased, so what's the difference if I put words in your mouth?

Quote:
I don’t know that the guy was a bad cop

No, you don't.

Quote:
but my understanding is that it very likely was the case.

Oh- Cause that's not MY understanding.

Quote:
He used death threats against his father-in-law.

You were there to hear it? You heard a recording? Or, oh, is that hearsay? Suddenly, in THIS case, hearsay is enough for you. Okay.

Quote:
He was at least suspected of domestic violence.

By anyone official? What did the investigation turn up on that, BTW?

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He tassered an 11 year old boy as an off duty stunt.

Actually, the kid wanted to feel the lightest charge out of curiosity, but whatever.

Quote:
And there was at least some considerable evidence that he drove while drinking.

Oh well then, you're gonna have to fire half the cops in this country then- you think that makes him in any way special???

Quote:
perhaps you're more guilty of what you accuse me of.

The famous 'rubber/glue' defense...always sounds good.

No Finn, I'm still convinced of your extreme views, but feel free to have them.

Chrisisall

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 11:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn: He used death threats against his father-in-law.
Chris: You were there to hear it? You heard a recording? Or, oh, is that hearsay? Suddenly, in THIS case, hearsay is enough for you. Okay.

It wasn’t hearsay. A state of Alaska State Trooper internal investigated found that he used death threats based on direct testimony.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn: He was at least suspected of domestic violence.
Chris:By anyone official? What did the investigation turn up on that, BTW?

An Alaska State judge issued a domestic violence protection order against Wooten, again based on direct testimony.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn: He tassered an 11 year old boy as an off duty stunt.
Chris: Actually, the kid wanted to feel the lightest charge out of curiosity, but whatever.

Irrelevant. If an 11 year old boy wanted to feel what cocaine was like would it then be permissible to give the child cocaine? It demonstrates a lack of good judgment and lack of appreciation for the well being of children.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Finn: And there was at least some considerable evidence that he drove while drinking.
Chris: Oh well then, you're gonna have to fire half the cops in this country then- you think that makes him in any way special???

Okay. Perhaps you’re fine with police officers driving drunk, but I’m not. And if we have to fire half the police force, then I’m okay with that, because if that is true, which I seriously doubt, then we need a new police force.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
The famous 'rubber/glue' defense...always sounds good.

No Finn, I'm still convinced of your extreme views, but feel free to have them.

You’re the one denying evidence to defend an officer that clearly has demonstrated some dubious behavior and instead blaming it on Palin. In other words, for you, it’s not the conduct of the officer that is important, but your disagreement with the political views of the person who has a problem with that conduct.

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You’re the one denying evidence to defend an officer that clearly has demonstrated some dubious behavior and instead blaming it on Palin.

In doing some research that I DIDN'T do before, here specifically,
http://www.adn.com/politics/story/476430.html
I find that I must remove the foot from my mouth regarding Wooten being a 'not bad' cop.
It doesn't mean that Palin didn't abuse her power, as the finding states, or that she has any real brains in her head, but it does mean I owe you one big fat apology for wasting your time on this one point, something I failed to do a little research on before I shot off my stupid mouth as if I knew everything.
It also proves my political desperation to be correct, as you pointed out.

My main point was gonna be that you lean as much right as I do left (which I still believe, BTW), but I'm gonna have to use my brain to prove it next time, not my ego.

Sorry dude.

*hangs head down and wanders away, plotting his next, less insulting, more fact-based challenge*

Knee-jerkisall

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 3:16 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

Mike likes Sarah :

http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/09/05/trooper-at-heart-of-alaska-investi
gation-says-palin-wonderful-choice

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 4:38 PM

MALBADINLATIN

Sorry for butting in Finn and Chris, but I have an opinion I'd like to share if it's ok.

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If an 11 year old boy wanted to feel what cocaine was like would it then be permissible to give the child cocaine?

No, but I'd taze him if he asked.

We asked my buddy's dad who was a CHP to taze us when we were 16, tazers had just come out and it frickken hurts! I lived through it without a scratch, and gained a healthy respect for any cop carrying one because it's actualy more painfull than getting shot in the arm. Then we asked him to choke hold us till we passed out twitching. It was fun. But my Mother would have been mortified if she saw it.

Sarah Palin just had a case of Mommy outrage...like you do now with all this "bla bla cocaine bla bla irresponsible bla well being bla bla". You can't watch thier every move forever and the child in Alaska wasn't damaged. Yet I'm not surprised you would join in on discrediting this trooper so Palin would appear justified for her "control freak sister" act, pulling strings, and teaching this guy a lesson for ever messing with the big important uber mommy governor's sister.

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal: And there was at least some considerable evidence that he drove while drinking.

Unless he drove drunk with the kids in the car...it is completely irrelevant to Palin's abuse of authority verdict. Palin didn't have her man servant call Monaghan about that, it was just part of the possibly trumped up list of reasons Palin thought he should be fired for. But once again, unless he drove with minors in the car, it's a seperate issue.

It won't stop the inevitable Republican defeat. This scandal is only hungry for Palin, who shields herself from Boo's using Piper and Willow, and it doesn't work! That's child abuse. Those kids will need therapy till they're 90.

Trolls against McCain

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

Quote:
you have the Presidential candidate himself being associated w/ some questionable characters, and just for kicks and giggles, the Left tries to play quid pro quo w/ the opposition's VP candidates HUSBAND ???
It's called sleeping with the enemy.

.

The worst Todd Palin would ever want is to leave you alone, and for you to leave him alone. That's a by far and away more desirable than what Obama himself has in store for this country.

And , FYI, when I told you to FO, I truly meant it. Here, you melted down for no real reason , what so ever. You getting THIS upset over Todd Palin? There's no possible way you could be so emotional over that, not a chance. You're just a sad, little man.

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 5:33 PM

OUT2THEBLACK

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 6:11 PM

Quote:

And , FYI, when I told you to FO, I truly meant it.

Of course you did. Because "you got nothin'."

Quote:

The worst Todd Palin would ever want is to leave you alone, and for you to leave him alone.

Yes, because secession has historically worked out so peacefully in this country...

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

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Sunday, October 12, 2008 6:12 PM

Drat.

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Monday, October 13, 2008 2:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You’re the one denying evidence to defend an officer that clearly has demonstrated some dubious behavior and instead blaming it on Palin.

In doing some research that I DIDN'T do before, here specifically,
http://www.adn.com/politics/story/476430.html
I find that I must remove the foot from my mouth regarding Wooten being a 'not bad' cop.
It doesn't mean that Palin didn't abuse her power, as the finding states, or that she has any real brains in her head, but it does mean I owe you one big fat apology for wasting your time on this one point, something I failed to do a little research on before I shot off my stupid mouth as if I knew everything.
It also proves my political desperation to be correct, as you pointed out.

My main point was gonna be that you lean as much right as I do left (which I still believe, BTW), but I'm gonna have to use my brain to prove it next time, not my ego.

Sorry dude.

*hangs head down and wanders away, plotting his next, less insulting, more fact-based challenge*

No sweat, dude. And you’re not wrong. I do lean to the right probably as much as you lean to the left. I don’t consider that to be a bad thing – we have our respective points of view. You don’t have to find any clever way of making that point – it’s obvious. We aren’t going to agree on choice of president, but we have that right. There’s no apologizes needed. I’m glad that you examined the issue deeper, which I knew you would sooner or later, and this doesn’t have to make you agree with Palin. But you don’t have to dislike someone to disagree with them. I disagree with Obama, but I don’t think he is a bad guy or stupid or evil. I just think I don’t agree with his way of doing things.

You’ll notice that I never said that Palin didn’t abuse her authority. And I don’t know whether she did or not, and to be entirely honest with you, it doesn’t surprise me, but in looking at the issue, it was clear to me that her reasons for doing what she did were sound and reasonable. If I were put in that situation I can tell you that I might do the same thing if it were my sister or one of my girls in trouble with a bad cop. It sort of comes down to obeying the letter or spirit. Should Palin allow this abusive cop to abuse her family, and by extension continue to be an abuse in the system, or should she do something about it, knowing that people will bring her up on the technicality of abuse of power. The truth is that Palin actually comes out of this looking a bit like a big damn hero – taking a stand against a bad guy even knowing that it will hurt her politically. So right from the beginning this whole issue was never something that was going to persuade many people against Palin.

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Monday, October 13, 2008 8:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If I were put in that situation I can tell you that I might do the same thing if it were my sister or one of my girls in trouble with a bad cop.

Yeah, I guess me too.

*Dreams of a Clint Eastwood/ Ralph Nader ticket*

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:08 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I think it’s your objectivity that is question here, as usual.

I think your knowledge of procedure is abysmal.

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Let’s look at this from a different point of view. I work in a certain department with several colleagues. Several of whom I personally don’t like, and one of which I found to be in opposition to the direction I think the department should go. Then one day I become department head. One of the first things that I’m going to do is make sure that everyone working under me is going to play ball

"Play ball"? Umm...Do you mean getting you coffee? Having sex? Taking bribes? Falsifying reports? What kinds of limits would you place, if any, on your criteria?

Quote:
and if they don’t, I’m going to fire them

In Civil Service, you don't just up and fire people. Not possible, not gonna happen. You have to show cause, have a hearing, and deal with the Union.

Quote:
That’s my authority granted to me by my position, because that’s my job.

You clearly have no experience in the arena of government employment.

My point is that Monegan COULDN'T "just fire" Wooten without going thru all the necessary steps. THAT kind of "playing ball" would prolly set up both Monegan and the State of Alaska for a nice, fat, juicy lawsuit.

www.juneauempire.com/stories/090508/sta_328880478.shtml

To give you an example of how PALIN doesn't understand procedures (and what a miserable Executive she made) what about that nice hockey sports arena on Wassila?

Quote:
The biggest project that Sarah Palin undertook as mayor of this small town was an indoor sports complex, where locals played hockey, soccer, and basketball, especially during the long, dark Alaskan winters. The only catch was that the city began building roads and installing utilities for the project before it had unchallenged title to the land. The misstep led to years of litigation and at least $1.3 million in extra costs for a small municipality with a small budget. What was to be Ms. Palin's legacy has turned into a financial mess that continues to plague Wasilla.

"It's too bad that the city of Wasilla didn't do their homework and secure the land before they began construction," said Kathy Wells, a longtime activist here. "She was not your ceremonial mayor; she was in charge of running the city. So it was her job to make sure things were done correctly."

Being an Executive means looking after shit like that: dotting your Is and crossing your Ts. Something Palin evidently doesn't know how to do. And doesn't realize (even if other ppl do) that OTHERS have to dot their Is and cross their Ts too.

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:18 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And I'll bet a lot of those Palin fans are still waiting for that blow, you betcha!

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Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

NEW ALLEGATION

Quote:
Sarah Palin’s House Built For Free? - Palin house is the drama of the day.The Palin family has a house worth $552,000 that is causing a bit of controversy. Palin house is located at Lake Lucille.It is a two-story, four bedroom, four bath home and “Todd Palin said that he built the house with friends who were contractors.”But reports claim that the house was actually built by the Spenard Builders Supply that was hired for the $12.5 million Wasilla Sports Complex.To make a long story short Palin made Spenard Builders Supply build her house in order for them to obtain the big Sports Complex contract.

http://news.spreadit.org/palin-housesarah-palin-s-house-built-for-free/

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Tuesday, October 14, 2008 1:25 PM

Quote:
Being an Executive means looking after shit like that: dotting your Is and crossing your Ts. Something Palin evidently doesn't know how to do.

Small point of contention: Palin DOES know how to dot her "i"s - she puts little hearts over them!

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

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Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
In Civil Service, you don't just up and fire people. Not possible, not gonna happen. You have to show cause, have a hearing, and deal with the Union.

I’ve don’t it, so it obviously can be done. But this is really just more word chess. You’re not disputing the fact that managers fire employees in the government and in the private sector, you’re arguing the strawman that a procedure is required, which doesn’t change anything I've said.

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Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:41 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I’ve don’t it, so it obviously can be done. But this is really just more word chess. You’re not disputing the fact that managers fire employees in the government and in the private sector, you’re arguing the strawman that a procedure is required, which doesn’t change anything I've said.

Yes it does. Palin fired Monegan in part because Monegan wouldn't "just fire" Wooten. But Monegan CAN'T arbitrarily "just fire" Wooten because Wooten is a union member and has Skelly rights. So Palin was demanding that Monegan do something that he couldn't -and shouldn't- do.

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Wednesday, October 15, 2008 2:38 AM

You're sticking to the strawman, eh? Alrighty then.

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Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:41 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

No. it's not a strawman. Palin had the authority to fire Monegan because he was NOT a rank-and-file employee, he was a Commissioner who serves at the pleasure of his boss, the governor. So she did not "exceed" her authority, which everybody agrees with

However, according to Monegan, Palin put pressure on him to fire Wooten because of personal reasons. As you know, you can't fire an employee for being a bad husband or a nasty soon-to-be-ex, you have to stick with job-related reasons. Palin was pressuring Monegan to do something that was not only personal, it was unethical and unwise because it might have left the State et al open for a lawsuit. Monegan refused to "play ball" in THAT way and so he was fired. (That's why I was wondering what limits YOU would put on "playing ball". If you require someone to do something unethical that makes YOU unethical.)

So Palin's firing of Monegan was UNETHICAL. That was decided by a BIPARTISAN investigation.

That's ANOTHER fact you're still fighting!

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Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:54 AM

And now you’re a friend to all those cops you think are almost universally abusive. You’re breaking through all kinds of personal boundaries today. I’m so proud of you. You’ve become a proponent of the Bush Administration and now a proponent of abusive cops. Soon you'll be pro-war and praying to invisible gods.

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Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:33 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
And now you’re a friend to all those cops you think are almost universally abusive

No, I'm not. I'm against abuse of power whether it's committed by a cop, a governor, or the President. Just because Palin was wrong doesn't mean Wooten was right. There could be TWO bad actors here. But we have laws and procedures to prevent abuse of power, and when an elected official (or a cop) breaks the laws and evades the procedures they should be called on it.

As Palin was. That's a fact that you can't get around, no matter how much you spew and spatter, and strawman and ad hominem.

And there's still that fiasco of a sports palace that hasn't been addressed, AND that possibly free house.

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Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:13 AM

Quote:

And now you’re a friend to all those cops you think are almost universally abusive. You’re breaking through all kinds of personal boundaries today. I’m so proud of you.

Talk about a weak-ass strawman argument...

You have no case.

Mike

This world is a comedy for those who think, and a tragedy for those who feel.

Trolls Against McCain!

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Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:46 AM