Let me introduce myself; I'm your friendly neighbourhood megalomaniac . by chrisisall

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

You mean aside from you?

/

Sorry, I'm nothing like that, AT ALL; you have no case.

I win.
You lose. Again.

The self-unaware Chrisisall

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Thursday, November 27, 2008 6:16 PM

AURaptor declaired:
ElvisChrist. you just don't like the fact that I'm right most of the time, and it bugs you to know that you're so very wrong.

EC retorted:
Dude, you're wrong TWICE in just that sentence alone!

AnthonyT inquired:
Hello,

Auraptor -

Actually, I would find it illuminating to hear a list of five things you've been wrong about. As near as I can tell, you're not just right most of the time... I can never recall you being wrong about anything, ever.

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Thursday, November 27, 2008 7:44 PM

America loves a winner!

I've admitted my errors, on many occasions. Problem is, those who disagree with me mostly want to exaggerate my self admitted miscues instead of debating. I generally won't post on that which know little or care little. To be fair, who else has fessed up to when THEY were wrong?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, November 27, 2008 8:47 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

A great gauge of any person's intellect is to determine how often they agree with me.

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Thursday, November 27, 2008 9:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I've admitted my errors, on many occasions

But not as often as you should.

Cites please?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Friday, November 28, 2008 4:32 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
I've admitted my errors, on many occasions
But not as often as you should.

Cites please?

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

Of course, after you

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Friday, November 28, 2008 4:48 AM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
"I am never wrong, ever. Even on rare occasions where I can be cited as wrong, I find a way to be correct anyway. My views can be questioned, but never changed. You may disagree with me, but that just shows how really wrong you are in the first place.
You know, you make me laugh with the silly things you believe, the facts are on MY side, why can't you see that? It's so plain...it's like a finger pointing the way to the moon, and you're ignoring it.
No matter what you say, no matter who you quote, no matter how you do the math, you have no case; you lose."
-Excerpt from the new book, I'm Okay, You're Fucked-up from Ballantime Books

I think we know peeps like this right HERE, do we not?

The giddy Chrisisall

You forgot to add "Modest", or am I wrong to mention it? Or if I'm rite does that make me wrong?

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Friday, November 28, 2008 5:18 AM

FREMDFIRMA

You know, there's many a time I *wish* I was wrong...

And when I am, it's usually a pleasant surprise rather than a nasty one - I never thought we'd successfully spring Genarlow Wilson or break the outright kidnapping of the FLDS kids, nor did I think that if we did, we'd salvage a useable case out of it to remove the bad actors from that community... and yet, somehow we got it done.

If I was wrong more often, I'd be a happier person, honestly.

There's really no comfort in "being right" when the things you're right about are so bloody awful, but the bright side of a pessimistic outlook is that you're never dissappointed or taken by surprise when things turn all pear-shaped on ya.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, November 28, 2008 6:20 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I've admitted my errors, on many occasions. Problem is, those who disagree with me mostly want to exaggerate my self admitted miscues instead of debating. I generally won't post on that which know little or care little. To be fair, who else has fessed up to when THEY were wrong?

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

Hello,

I was a supporter of the Iraq war at its inception, based on the beliefs that

1) We would find stockpiles of WMD and an active WMD program.

2) We would stop the abuse of the citizenry

and

3) We would be able to acquire a cheap oil supply from Iraq that would guarantee low gasoline prices.

In the end, none of these proved out, and I ended up being wrong on all three counts.

My entire support of the war was based on a vapor of propaganda and avarice that blew away the moment we occupied the country.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, November 28, 2008 7:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Of course, after you

I was wrong about my prediction that GW would have martial law instated sometime before the end of his reign- after the official sanction of torture, I (understandably, I think) assumed there would be no end to the human rights violations, so, that was one BIG one I was wrong about.

Also, Bush met with the Dalai Llama, which if you had asked me if he ever would, I would have said no, so that was one I *would* have been wrong about.

The fessing Chrisisall

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Friday, November 28, 2008 7:45 AM

Double double toil & troubles,
Connection fades & my post doubles

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Friday, November 28, 2008 2:04 PM

America loves a winner!

Anthony -

I also naively thought that , as a by product ( and not a primary reason ) of the Iraqi war, we'd benefit from cheap oil, AND we'd be making use of the sales of that same oil to pay for us having to GO to war in the 1st place.

OOPS. Didn't turn out quite like that, now did it ?

OK, so it's been 5 1/2 yrs since the war started, and gas today is back down to $ 1.55 a gallon. ( As of today ) Yay.

And we didn't find " stock piles of WMD ", but so damn what. I'll still hold to the fact that Saddam had time to move and or hide what ever he was working on. The secret nuke facility in Syria certainly gives credence to the theory that Saddam sent his cache across the border.

As for the violence ? That's been greatly reduced, but I think we're dealing w/ a cultural difference more than anything, and it'll take time to bring that region of the world into the 21st century.

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Friday, November 28, 2008 2:16 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Mr. Raptor, I think where you and I differ is this...

When evidence failed to materialize to justify our invasion of Iraq, my support for the engagement ended.

Meanwhile, you created alternate theories about where the evidence disappeared to.

I suppose one might conclude that my interpretation is pessimistic: "I was lied to."

While yours is optimistic: "I was told the truth, but the evidence of that truth is gone."

In a way I envy your faith in the government. Others might call you an 'apologizer' for the administration, but I think I see you instead as someone who believes in America as unwaveringly as another person might believe in God or UFO's. There may not be evidence, not yet, but you do believe that the Truth is Out There.

I used to feel that way, but I was unable to make the leap of faith necessary to continue believing my government in the absence of evidence.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, November 28, 2008 2:53 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Mr. Raptor, I think where you and I differ is this...

When evidence failed to materialize to justify our invasion of Iraq, my support for the engagement ended.

What you and most folks fail to realize is that Iraq was obligated to show that it HAD lived up to the agreements and resolutions passed down by the U.N. IRAQ FAILED TO DO THAT! WMD in stockpiles or not.

Quote:

Meanwhile, you created alternate theories about where the evidence disappeared to.

I suppose one might conclude that my interpretation is pessimistic: "I was lied to."
You can't determine that unless you can absolutely certify that Bush and all of the entire world community KNEW for a fact that IRAQ had no WMDs at all. I'm fairly certain you can't do that.

Quote:
While yours is optimistic: "I was told the truth, but the evidence of that truth is gone."

While we didn't find what our , and practically all other intelligence agency told us we'd find, the fact remains that Iraq failed to live up to a laundry list of obligations.

Quote:

In a way I envy your faith in the government. Others might call you an 'apologizer' for the administration, but I think I see you instead as someone who believes in America as unwaveringly as another person might believe in God or UFO's. There may not be evidence, not yet, but you do believe that the Truth is Out There.

I used to feel that way, but I was unable to make the leap of faith necessary to continue believing my government in the absence of evidence.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

You misunderstand my position entirely. It's not a blind faith in my Government, not in the least. In fact, my faith is in SPITE of Government, or more importantly, politicians. What I find curious is those who said Saddam was so bad and must be dealt with before Bush was in office, some how changed their tune, not after he was elected, or even after they elected to grant him power to use force, but in the months AFTER the war, when things got dicey and hard. In short, when the going got tough , the Democrats got out.

That, above all else, told me what I need to know. That the Left wing was far more motivated by politics than love of country.

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Friday, November 28, 2008 3:09 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Mr. Raptor,

I think you'll find that I was perfectly prepared to let the U.N. come to their gradual decision on what to do about Iraq's non-compliance. What spurned me to support the war was not the non-compliance itself, but rather being told by the administration that this was so important and urgent that it required pre-emptive action... Action more severe and more rapid than the U.N. was prepared to undertake.

This sense of urgency was not supported by what we found after occupying the country.

You and I make two different assumptions.

I assume that the lack of evidence means the sense of urgency was wrong.

You assume that the lack of evidence means that the evidence was somehow moved or obscured.

I just don't feel comfortable assuming that. To me, when an officer fails to find evidence at a crime scene, I presume innocence. Here, Iraq is on trial, and there is no evidence against them. The worst they could be convicted of is 'interfering with an investigation,' which is a far less serious offense than the 'conspiracy to commit murder' that sold me on the invasion.

You also brought up the suffering of the Iraqi people and the need for their liberation. I think support for this idea fell away not because things got 'hard' but rather because the Iraqi people did not seem happier or more prosperous after we invaded. We even managed to round up and torture Iraqis in one of Saddam's ex-torture facilities. In short, I feel that improving their quality of life and 'freeing' them was something of a failure. You may disagree.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, November 28, 2008 3:19 PM

America loves a winner!

AnthonyT,

10+ yrs is long enough for Iraq to come to compliance.

On this, I agreed w/ the Bush administration.

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Friday, November 28, 2008 11:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

And we didn't find " stock piles of WMD ", but so damn what. I'll still hold to the fact that Saddam had time to move and or hide what ever he was working on. The secret nuke facility in Syria certainly gives credence to the theory that Saddam sent his cache across the border.

As for the violence ? That's been greatly reduced, but I think we're dealing w/ a cultural difference more than anything, and it'll take time to bring that region of the world into the 21st century.

Were you forgetting this was the tactical decision, not a disinformation? The invasion was delayed for an extra day of 2 from the "deadline" date because via satellite our forces watched the caravan of WMD trucks drive across the Syrian border? This was intended to reduce overall casualties during the expectedly quick invasion. It was a tactical decision to reduce combat fatalities.
That's why we didn't invade at the time we said we did, we waited at the border.

Regarding voilence, and more importantly, the education and literacy of the Middle East: If the next 10 years brings about moderate peace after 2 millenia of war, good will have been done, as I'd hoped - and continue to. Bringing a region of 98% illiteracy into the 20th century, let alone the 21st, can not have been expected to be an easy road.

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:25 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I would be appalled if trucks full of WMD were purposefully allowed to be evacuated. If that were true, it would be an example of gross negligence on the part of an administration that asserted a grave danger that said WMD's would reach the hands of other countries and terrorist organizations.

The idea that the military would have watched via satellite as trucks containing a terrorist's wet dream were evacuated to Syria, and did nothing to stop it, is appalling.

I hope this is some rumor or tall tale that you are repeating, and not an example of historical fact.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:18 AM

America loves a winner!

It was realized, after the invasion that our intel was far from what it should have been. Hell, for all the $$ the various agencies get, that was the main reason they touted WMD, until we started to hold them accountable and based our attack on THEIR intel. So, Saddam had months , if not years , to scurry materials across the border. I'm sorry, but it makes no sense to me that we'd sit and watch them move goods across the border, and THEN attack and act as if we'd find them there, in country. The Administration would WANT them found in Iraq, more than anything, instead of having Saddam get to play the role of innocent victim of a huge screw up. That logic doesn't float.

Intelligence is at tricky business. Sometimes you might have to guess your way through something, because you know your subject well enough to do so . Even if you don't have the hard evidence, you can still predict the other guys move, even before he does it. But as good as you may be, it sometimes is just that, still a guess. It make sense that Saddam would move his WMD, rather than have the Americans find it for him.

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:27 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Regarding voilence, and more importantly, the education and literacy of the Middle East: If the next 10 years brings about moderate peace after 2 millenia of war, good will have been done, as I'd hoped - and continue to. Bringing a region of 98% illiteracy into the 20th century, let alone the 21st, can not have been expected to be an easy road.

You're a regular Jeff Bezos... we should have dropped Kindles instead of bombs...

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 7:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Nah, we shoulda dropped care packages with some food*, bottled water, medical supplies and a modern variant of the FP-45 Liberator.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator
Labelled "From your friends in America".

They'd get the idea pretty quick, as culturally they're a pretty restive lot and willing to throw down asshole leaders with little encouragement.

*Giving of food is culturally more important to them, an act of hospitality generally more respected over there than here, and I would calculate what to include based on cultural preference and maximum impact.

You'd actually be amazed, if not downright shocked, but how much mileage one of my buddies in the Kosvo deployment got out of the large batches of homemade chocolate chip cookies I was shipping him - they were in fact directly responsible for the turnover of two sizeable arms caches.

-Frem

EDIT: That whole "WMD Convoy" thing fails the sniff test, and frankly, the credibility of such statements given the source and eventual truth of so many others similar in nature is, at the very minimum - laughable.

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 9:04 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
EDIT: That whole "WMD Convoy" thing fails the sniff test, and frankly, the credibility of such statements given the source and eventual truth of so many others similar in nature is, at the very minimum - laughable.

Of COURSE it does, and not a sock in the least that you'd dismiss it, completely out of hand. It conflicts w/ your world view , so your brain rejects it.

Not surprised in the least.

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
It conflicts w/ your world view , so your brain rejects it.

Rapo, you're talking to a guy who has more knowledge of security, weapons, and dirty fighting in his little finger than you will ever have in your whole lifetime.

Nobody can accuse you of recognizing your limitations, that's for sure!

---------------------------------
Let's party like its 1929.

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:03 PM

ELVISCHRIST

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
A great gauge of any person's intellect is to determine how often they agree with me.

The less often they agree with you, the smarter they are.

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

Nobody can accuse you of recognizing your limitations, that's for sure!

"A 'Raptor's got to know his limitations."

- Dirty Jurassic Callahan

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, November 29, 2008 11:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Hello Anthony,

IF you are really interested and IF you want to chase it down, IIRC it was Dr Michael Shrimpton who relayed this info. Look into his comments about "WMDs in Iraq" should get you somewhere. I don't have time to chase it down tonight, but I've already heard it from multiple sources (none of which were PMSNBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, ESPN, PBS, or AP).
Hope that helps. I did not find any book from him.

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Sunday, November 30, 2008 3:36 AM