Bush tortured POWs to death by piratenews

Quote:
"In both cases, for example, [prisoners] were handcuffed to fixed objects above their heads in order to keep them awake," reads the document. "Additionally, interrogations in both incidents involved the use of physical violence, including kicking, beating, and the use of "compliance blows" which involved striking the [prisoners] legs with the [interrogators] knees. In both cases, blunt force trauma to the legs was implicated in the deaths. In one case, a pulmonary embolism developed as a consequence of the blunt force trauma, and in the other case pre-existing coronary artery disease was complicated by the blunt force trauma."

That could never happen- the necessary interrogations were conducted with scientific precision by trained specialists with medical personnel on hand.

I'll believe this when birds can fly.

The GRRRRR Chrisisall

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 3:43 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

But...but...but - They were prisoners! That PROVES they were guilty! After all, we all know that not one single innocent person has ever been jailed by the U.S.

Right?

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 4:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
But...but...but - They were prisoners! That PROVES they were guilty! After all, we all know that not one single innocent person has ever been jailed by the U.S.

Yes, of course. The US is above that. It is singular in it near perfection and history of non-abuse of authority. Petty crap like that is for Britain & Iran.

The doubly-sarcastic Chrisisall

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 4:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
But...but...but - They were prisoners! That PROVES they were guilty! After all, we all know that not one single innocent person has ever been jailed by the U.S.

Right?

Yeah...and PN found this story on the internet...so it must be true.

Right?

H

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 4:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Yeah...and PN found this story on the internet...so it must be true.

Right?

Your lack of funny betrays your uneasyness with disturbing realities, Hero. I have come to respect you, therefore I will not lay a smackdown upon you the way I do with AU, I'll just leave it at this: PN digs up many things, and every so often it is truth.
Oh, and this: *Sticks tongue out (the

thing isn't working

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 4:50 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

ignore

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
ignore

Why are you ignoring me, Ec?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:16 PM

JONGSSTRAW

I'm sure he got an earfull at dinner. There would have been no getting away from that.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 3:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Another example of PN being too fucking ridiculous for me to even put into words.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 3:44 AM

PIRATECAT

Who cares about stinken muslims. I mean nobody cares about American soliders raped to death. What about the reporters you know those libs who enlighten us skinned alive. Don't worry about muslim children drenched in gasoline and then lit on fire because they talked to Americans. I am not fooled about people who pretend to be about justice. They are traitors who hide behind the liberal way of thinking. If the jews left tomorrow and we stop using gas we still would have problems these assholes.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 4:03 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

I don't believe it either. You can never trust govt documents. Mission Accompliced.

Torture's as Amerikan as apple pie made in Communist China and Chevrolets made in Mexico.

"CIA made cuts in my penis. I was in agony."
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/aug/02/terrorism.humanrights1

Law Professor Jonathan Turley: Obama can be arrested for warcrimes if he refuses to arrest Bush for warcrimes

$17-million undercover audio catches copsters torturing US citzen inside his own home: Waterboarding, gun in the mouth, electrodes clipped to his genitals, to force him to sign a "voluntary" contract for confession...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3386531596598980684

Not just for Iraqis anymore...

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 4:45 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
But...but...but - They were prisoners! That PROVES they were guilty! After all, we all know that not one single innocent person has ever been jailed by the U.S.

Right?

Yeah...and PN found this story on the internet...so it must be true.

Right?

H

Ah, I get it - Anything reported on the internet is false, then?

Which part of the story do you find objectionable? That recently declassified documents obtained by the ACLU under the Freedom Of Information Act factually report that prisoners were tortured and died, or that news of that report appeared on the internet?

In your world, "Hero", when is it legitimate news? When Fox picks it up?

Quote:
AuLapdog wrote:

Another example of PN being too fucking ridiculous for me to even put into words.

I'd ask you the same questions: What is it, specifically, that you find "too fucking ridiculous...to put into words"? Is it the story itself? The source cited? The ACLU? Or is it only because PN posted it?

If it's that last bit, I'd submit that since you yourself have been caught red-handed lying your ass off, EVERYTHING you post here must be viewed as a lie from here on out.

Mike

"It is complete now; the hands of time are neatly tied."

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Another example of PN being too fucking ridiculous for me to even put into words.

Fess up, you just don't like to read is all.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Ah, I get it - Anything reported on the internet is false, then?

Yes...and no. I've looked into this internet business, not just about this story...but the entire internet. I've found that some of what's on the internet is true and some of it is false.

Quote:

Which part of the story do you find objectionable? That recently declassified documents obtained by the ACLU under the Freedom Of Information Act factually report that prisoners were tortured and died, or that news of that report appeared on the internet?

Neither. Its the fact that the source of the story is NOT secret govt documents or the ACLU. Its a liberal website citing information gained from another liberal website. This is a common practice on the left. One blog makes crap up. Then another blog cites it in a "news story" which then allows another blog to cite the "news story". Same folks make up lots of crazy talk...unless you really believe Palin's youngest is actually her grandson. Its a crazy talk version of money laundering.

Quote:

In your world, "Hero", when is it legitimate news? When Fox picks it up?

I'd settle for CNN. At least when they jump at the lies they correct themselves later on. Drudge is also a good source. All he does is post links direct to such wacky news sources as mainstream newspapers, FOX, CNN, network news, Reuters, the AP, etc.

Quote:

I'd ask you the same questions: What is it, specifically, that you find "too fucking ridiculous...to put into words"? Is it the story itself? The source cited? The ACLU? Or is it only because PN posted it?

How about the author? I especially liked that story he did about the Death camp in Denver during the Democratic National Convention.

Quote:

EVERYTHING you post here must be viewed as a lie from here on out.

Quick, AU tell them how smart PN is.

Hearing you defend PN reminds me of Obi Wan..."Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

Stop making PN look good.

H

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
the fact that the source of the story is NOT secret govt documents or the ACLU.

Uhhh, I followed their links.
http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/021109.html
It wasn't hard, I swear.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Your lack of funny betrays your uneasyness with disturbing realities, Hero.

Naw...just in a hurry. My first thought at reading this was "if only it were true" (sigh).

I mean torturing and killing terrorists. I say send in Jack Bauer and get me the name of their contacts or whatever other info we need.

Quote:

I have come to respect you...PN digs up many things, and every so often it is truth.

Thanks. PN digs up crap, every so often you get used to the smell.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
PN digs up crap, every so often you get used to the smell.

This s**t may smell, but it ain't, er..s**t...well, you know what I mean>>>>
http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/021109.html

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
the fact that the source of the story is NOT secret govt documents or the ACLU.
Uhhh, I followed their links.
http://www.aclu.org/torturefoia/released/021109.html
It wasn't hard, I swear.

But I read the documents. They don't say what the ACLU says they say. I think this is a case of the ACLU being a bit...overzealous. Particularly since this is out of their area.

The ACLU is to promote American Civil Liberties...which don't apply in any of the cases they cited except with regards to the rights of those accused of committing these acts. Even then ACLU interest is limited by the fact that these soldiers have limited Civil Rights because of they are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

The United States Constitution does not apply on foriegn soil...even with Barrack Obama in charge. The crime here is not the alleged abuse of these enemy combatants. If there is a crime here it is for failing to follow the Uniform Code of Military Justice. If they did, in fact, follow their orders, and those orders were lawfully given, no crime was committed.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 7:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
They don't say what the ACLU says they say.

So, moving prisoners to foreign soil for the express purpose of avoiding laws that apply on American soil is what? Just a CYA to allow what would be a crime HERE? Isn't that, like, a crime in itself?
Or can I trick a guy I hate onto a space shuttle, go for a space walk & kill him legally where no soil exists at all?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 9:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
If...,those orders were lawfully given, no crime was committed.

That's my point; orders to avoid the rule of law cannot be lawfully given, IMHO.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 10:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
So, moving prisoners to foreign soil for the express purpose of avoiding laws that apply on American soil is what? Just a CYA to allow what would be a crime HERE? Isn't that, like, a crime in itself?

I live in Ohio. Highway speed limit is 65mph. In West Virginia its 70mph. If I, a resident of Ohio, drive 70mph in West Virginia I have not violated any Ohio law.

You would argue that since I was licensed to drive in Ohio that I am bound to obey Ohio traffic laws wherever I happen to be. Its a good argument. However, Ohio courts have said that they have no authority to prosecute acts that take place outside their territorial jurisdiction.

So if a member of the Ohio National Guard assaults someone in Iraq...the crime is not an Ohio crime. It could be a crime under Iraqi (depending on the Status of Forces Agreement) or a crime under the Uniform Code of Military Justice...but it is not a State or Federal crime.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:14 AM

FREMDFIRMA

You say that like it might actually *mean* something to a prosecutor hired by the so-called "justice" system, Chris...

You should know better, as half their job is avoiding the rule of law when it interferes with their conviction rate.

-F

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:36 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 11:52 AM

Very pretty Rue, but not necessarily illegal. And remember, legality trumps so-called right & wrong. Bending the rules to just before they break is the cornerstone of an ordered, Capitalist, authoritarian system. The Golden Rule is eternal, Thomas Jefferson would have approved of the legal abuse of these non-citizens, whether they were guilty of crimes against us or not.
It IS legal for me to kill someone in space, it seems, as long as I don't do it in anyone's jurisdiction.

Welcome back to the Wild West, legal-style.

The sickened-and-not-at-all-happy-in-fact-distressed-some Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 12:17 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

The photos that have been released are quite mild compared to the full set.

"According to Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, author of the most probing investigation into Abu Ghraib abuses (see February 26, 2004), many photographs and videos of the abuses have yet to surface publicly. While making his report, Taguba saw “a video of a male American soldier in uniform sodomizing a female detainee.” This video has not even been mentioned in any court proceedings. [New Yorker, 6/17/2007] Journalist Seymour Hersh, who first broke the Abu Ghraib abuse story, also claims that still unreleased photos show “other, more sexual abuse than we knew, sodomy of women prisons by American soldiers, a father and his son forced to do acts together. There was more stuff [than] was made public.” [Raw Story, 6/17/2007] The US Army’s Criminal Investigation Division (CID) continues to hold such photos and videos and declines to release them, citing ongoing criminal investigations and their “extremely sensitive nature."

***************************************************************

Yep. It really was torture.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 1:33 PM

So what? We can do ANYTHING as long as it's technically legal, haven't you read a word Hero wrote???
Who needs the high road when you own, er, have the law on your side?

The scoffing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 1:35 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I really shouldn't laugh. And I didn't. And besides, it depends on how you define 'laugh'.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
it depends on how you define 'laugh'.

Dejected, knowing chuckle?

The not-so-laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:15 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

HEY ! How did you know !!?? Not that I did that, or anything ... :looks around over shoulder: ... not that you can prove anyway ... :crosses fingers: ...

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:58 PM

Smile for the camera.

The eerie Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 4:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA

It's worse even than that, Rue.

Bad enough that even I agree with Taguba's decision not to release the rest of it publicly, especially given mere possession of it could constitute a crime under US Law.

Let's just say they did not restrict those acts, any of em, to adults - and worse, from Tagubas perspective, implicates several ranking officers in the abuse, which would lead to "a crisis of confidence in the chain of command" and at a moment where we were up to our asses in a war nobody with half a brain wanted were it released at that point.

Taguba was seriously having a problem with wrestling that one, cause for all that discipline needs to be maintained - should he have done so, it would have effectively shattered the administration he was taking orders from, and left the remaining troops on the ground, whether they were part of it or not, with no popular support, a shaky chain of command, bad morale and internal strife in a period where there weren't enough of them to do the job right and they needed all the support and unity they could scrape up just to go on day after day in a country where they were seriously unwelcome to begin with.

As a serving military officer with responsibilities to those whom he was serving, and those poor bastards on the line as well, he made the only logical decision he could.

However, Taguba's a soldier, and the final decision on matters like this rests with the civilian authorities just for reasons like this, where conflicting imperatives render military judgements less than perfect.

I say call Congress into session, seal the doors and *make* them watch the damned tapes, then put them back in the vault and let our representatives decide what to do or say about it - which is, after all, their freakin job.

How many times have I pointed out that in light of being told outright lies, having information withheld or distorted, Congress cannot properly represent us unless they are given access to the information needed to do it ?

If you cannot trust them with that information, than you shouldn't trust them with a freakin seat, and frankly that's OUR decision, not that of the goddamn army, or intel agencies - a Congressmember should be privy to any and ALL information as regards our country and it's administration without restriction of limitation, period.

Look how much black budget bullshit, historically, we the people NEVER got a decision in, because Congress was either not informed of it, or lied to about it - that makes a complete mockery of our entire system, does it not ?

So, call em into session, lock em in there and roll the damn tape - let them do the goddamn job we sent them to washington to do, for once.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
It IS legal for me to kill someone in space, it seems, as long as I don't do it in anyone's jurisdiction.

And at sea...don't forget at sea...unless your a pirate. Oh...and in Antarctica. And while you can kill someone in space...you can't carry a weapon there. That would be illegal.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
***************************************************************

A number of persons were tried and convicted of prisoner abuse or entered pleas to lesser charges related to the Abu Ghraib incidents.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 5:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
And while you can kill someone in space...you can't carry a weapon there. That would be illegal.

You can't pull that one on me, Hero, I saw Armageddon.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
So what? We can do ANYTHING as long as it's technically legal, haven't you read a word Hero wrote???

Can you do ANYTHING as long as its legal?

Hell yeah...thats kinda what "legal" means. This is America after all. I mean it'd be kinda silly to have the Govt out there prosecuting you for NOT breaking the law.

SHOULD you do something just because its legal? Thats up to you...a question of ethics and morality. As your neighbor I can judge you for your moral choices, but as your Prosecutor...thats your business and I don't need the extra paperwork.

I note for the record that I'd have been the first in line to prosecute those soldiers for violating te UCMJ and abusing prisoners. I'd also have been first in line to defend them (first behind John Adams anyway)...after all, I'm a lawyer and everybody has a right to a defense (even the fracking Redcoats who fired into a crowd of civilians...noting for the record they were found not guilty by a Boston jury).

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
You can't pull that one on me, Hero, I saw Armageddon.

Legally they had what is called exigent circumstances.

Def: An emergency situation requiring swift action to prevent imminent danger to life or serious damage to property, or to forestall the imminent escape of a suspect, or destruction of evidence. There is no ready litmus test for determining whether such circumstances exist, and in each case the extraordinary situation must be measured by the facts known by officials.

While they may have violated the Space Treaty...there is also the oft overlooked fact that they also violated EPA regulations. Not one enviromental impact study was even filed prior to the destruction of the astroid. Greenpeace was up in arms...

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
...after all, I'm a lawyer and everybody has a right to a defense

You are consistent, Hero, hence the quote on your sig.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
they also violated EPA regulations. Not one enviromental impact study was even filed prior to the destruction of the astroid.

...that you KNOW of.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 16, 2009 12:15 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
(first behind John Adams anyway)...after all, I'm a lawyer and everybody has a right to a defense (even the fracking Redcoats who fired into a crowd of civilians...noting for the record they were found not guilty by a Boston jury).

Ah yes, he of the Alien and Sedition acts, showing his true character a mite early on, wasn't he ?

And I see you brought your usual brand of honesty along with you - for the record, two of them *WERE* convicted, for manslaughter.

Why oh why do you make it so easy for me to skewer you ?

Masochist.

-F

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 3:45 AM