What would Mal have thought of Bush and Obama? by chrisisall

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

His take on both of them:

"That's what government's for... get in a man's way."

Mal doesn't seem real big on relying on politicians for much of anything, or for paying any attention to the things they say - but he WILL pay attention to their actions some.

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Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:50 PM

EVILDINOSAUR

yea I don't think he'd care for either of them, he's not a fan of any politician.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:06 PM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
His take on both of them:

"That's what government's for... get in a man's way."

Mal doesn't seem real big on relying on politicians for much of anything, or for paying any attention to the things they say - but he WILL pay attention to their actions some.

I hope Kwicko does'nt mind if I agree with him 100%

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Wednesday, March 11, 2009 2:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
His take on both of them:

"That's what government's for... get in a man's way."

Mal doesn't seem real big on relying on politicians for much of anything, or for paying any attention to the things they say - but he WILL pay attention to their actions some.
I hope Kwicko does'nt mind if I agree with him 100%

Hey, when I'm right, I'm right!

One of the biggest benefits to having your very own Firefly-class ship is being able to stay the hell away from the gubmint!

Mike

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

- Anthem, by Leonard Cohen

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Wednesday, March 11, 2009 6:18 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Probably seen right through the both of 'em. Mal's smart.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

A concern of the GOP is that the people aren't informed enough to understand their policies, while a fear of the Dems is that the people ARE.

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 12:55 AM

Yup. I don't think he would have liked either of 'em. Nice try though, Chris.

Each leader, regardless of side, represents a "big" government figurehead. And Mal . . . he don't like big government.

A question to ask on a grander scale would be: Would Mal be a Liberal or a Conservative? Is he a little of both?

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:26 AM

Common consensus around these parts is, he tends to lean pretty libertarian.

Mike

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:54 AM

WASHNWEAR

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
My take:

Mal: "Bush was perfect Alliance, all right. Settin' us on the way to Earth-That-Was, and this Obama fella, well he seems to mean well, but he's got his fingers in the disposal now, and he'll either get 'em chopped off, or he'll throw a terrifyin' monkey wrench into the thing...
Way I see it, one humped ya, and the other's gonna struggle not to.

I'd be building those generational ships 'bout now, I were y'all."

I read the thread title and the image came, unbidden and inexplicable...of Mal's ultimate and succinct expression of his feelings for Dobson...

Or wait - was I supposed to type that "in character?"

ETA:On a somewhat related note, anybody ever imagine trying to explain telemarketers to George Washington? "Shite and onions - where's my musket?!"

ET to further A: I feel like Mal would hold either Obama or Bush in about the same general regard...or lack thereof.

It was like that when we got here!

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:04 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Come ta think on it, The Alliance and the Independent movement must have had large leaders, Presidents or Chairmen or such, and Shadow must have had a government of some sort. And the Independant military must have had Commanders and Generals. The only one we ever hear about is the Colonel in The Message. Wonder how Mal felt about them? There must have been someone he admired and looked up to.

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:18 AM

Quote:
There must have been someone he admired and looked up to.

Ya know, I'm sure there WAS someone Mal looked up to - but he lost every bit of that in the war. Ever see The Outlaw Josey Wales? After seeing his commander sell out his men to the Red-Legs, can you understand why Josey doesn't much trust or believe in ANYTHING any more? That's how I imagine Mal feeling after Serenity Valley. Everything he had - gone. Everything he ever believed in - gone. Everything he cared about - gone. He's hollowed out inside. There's nothing left.

He bought Serenity not just to try to make some coin, but also to try to find a reason to live, to find something worth caring about again. And it's damned sure he's not going to make the mistake of putting his faith in any government ever again. He's seen where that road leads.

ETA: On a personal note, come to think on it, there's a large amount of that imbued in me. My dad brought a lot of that attitude back with him from the 'Nam, and he very rarely ever spoke of his time there - only twice in my presence. We were raised to stand up for The Star-Spangled Banner, put our right hand over our chest (yes, even at home if we were up when the TV station went off the air and they played the national anthem at sign-off!), stand at attention for an officer, address everyone older as "sir" or "ma'am", and all that good stuff.

And on the day my dad left the Army, after 25 years in, he changed utterly and completely. We picked him up at the gates of the base - they wouldn't let us on base because he wasn't reenlisting, so his family was in effect persona non grata - but when we picked him up at the gates, as soon as he walked through the gate of the base and was free and clear, he turned around, saluted the guards, and then gave two BIG middle fingers to the base itself - and by extension, to the Army and the U.S. government he'd served since he turned 17.

It was that radical a change. And he never stood up or saluted anything or anyone again. God only knows what the hell he saw over there, or what he went through, but it definitely changed him.

Mike

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

- Anthem, by Leonard Cohen

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:29 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Come ta think on it, The Alliance and the Independent movement must have had large leaders, Presidents or Chairmen or such, and Shadow must have had a government of some sort. And the Independant military must have had Commanders and Generals. The only one we ever hear about is the Colonel in The Message. Wonder how Mal felt about them? There must have been someone he admired and looked up to.

Context has a lot to do with who we choose - if it wasn't for W., we may not have had Obama. So it would be helpful to know what set the independence off. "They got in our way" isn't much, love to know whether it was a sequence of events or a compilation of lost freedoms (and what those were), or was it one big thing? Violence or taxation? And who the Alliance leader(s) were. Dear... Jeff.... Weldon, my buddies and I was specalatin'..."

I don't think Mal would have minded Obama - gotta have gubmint for the masses that want it, feel they need it, so if anyone's going to run it he's not such a bad fellow. Didn't come from the Atherton class elitists, is modest and forthright in his manner, and is pretty much a self made man all while struggling against base human prejudice, even from his own race. If you are fighting for your freedoms and independence there's some common ground for sure. As opposed to W-anker.

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:44 AM

No disrespect intended or implied but I find it funny that you guys think he'd prefer Obama. Seeing as how liberalism is not looked to kindly upon by Libertarians. And yes, I could very well be wrong there, so correct if you feel the need to. I just know that there are two libertarian radio talk show hosts I listen to that really don't like liberalism.

I know that many of you would laugh if I said he would have preferred W. for the same reason of not seeming to be "not such a bad fellow. Being modest and forthright." Which i do believe about him. But I digress and don't want to start the usual yelling and screaming here.

I stand by my remark that Mal wouldn't have liked either. If you put it in context of D.C.=Alliance and the states=planets/moons. Nah. I think he'd prefer the notion of each state/planet running it's own affairs. Let's face it. The government, at times, does force us to do things we don't agree with and might have gone differently had it been voted on at the state level (yes, I lump Iraq in there, too). So smaller government yes, BIG government no.

Just my thoughts. Tart away

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:49 AM

Libertarianism is an off-shoot of classical liberalism, and Obama isn't a Liberal anyway. There are no Liberals in American mainstream politics. Liberalism is centre-left, at best Democrats are centre-right.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:57 AM

Again . . . not hashing words, but Obama IS a liberal. Voted most liberal senator in 2007.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_comp
osite&o2=desc#results

I'll have to look up the issue about libertarian = classical liberalism, so thanks for pointing that out.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Come ta think on it, The Alliance and the Independent movement must have had large leaders, Presidents or Chairmen or such, and Shadow must have had a government of some sort. And the Independant military must have had Commanders and Generals. The only one we ever hear about is the Colonel in The Message. Wonder how Mal felt about them? There must have been someone he admired and looked up to.

Maybe, but I don't think so...

Zoe had Mal, Mal had...nobody.
And his general attitude towards even the independent higher ups seemed to be something along the lines of "damn cheese eatin surrender monkeys!".

Not having anyone to look up to like that, it can eat at a man, chew him in up ways that make him mean - Mal shows some shades of this here and there, like his speech about 'luck' to Zoe.

In fact you could say that's a big root of a lot of Mals personal "issues" if you think about it some, and yet it's also one of those things that can bring out the best in a man and make him a good leader, someone mentioned Josey Wales, and I'll mention Drake's Col Hammer as another example, but Wales is probably closer since like Mal, Wales *needed* something to care about in order to find a reason to live, even if that something annoyed the hell out of him.

I'd also mention that Mal didn't really have much in the example of male authority figures to look up to even from childhood since he was raised by his mother, and for all his positive feelings towards the ranch hands they were when it came to it, hired men - so Mal would likely have a few issues accepting a male authority figure in the first place, yes ?

He does, however, treat FEMALE authority figures with actual respect I notice, the one client of Inara's comes to mind, as well as Nandi, and he even gave Patience a lot more leeway than he really shoulda - which is likely rooted in the "law of the land" being his momma.

Us momma's boys tend to be like that, mind you.
(note my fondness for MI's current Governor, despite thinking politicians in general a pack of feckless curs)

So, no, Mal wouldn't much care for Bush or Obama to begin with, and neither one of them having earned any respect from him personally, wouldn't be to likely to hand out any neither.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Again . . . not hashing words, but Obama IS a liberal. Voted most liberal senator in 2007.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_comp
osite&o2=desc#results

Liberalism and what Americans call Liberalism are two very different things.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:07 AM

Then I should have clarified for which I apologize. I did see that just now on another site. Obama is an American form of Liberal. Is that a better way to say it?

I found this on a Libertarian site. Does a good job at showing the differences in political thought:
http://www.theadvocates.org/library/comparison-of-philosophies.html

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Then I should have clarified for which I apologize. I did see that just now on another site. Obama is an American form of Liberal. Is that a better way to say it?

Heh. I don't know. When I say liberalism and "American Liberalism" are different things, I mean Liberalism is a political ideology, and "American Liberalism" is usually an insult. This site works as an example, a fair few people here say "You're a liberal" when they're trying to be insulting.

Obama being an "American Liberal" works as a definition the same way as he's of the "American Left", being that he's to the left of the right most American political party. But I'm not entirely sure what "American Liberal" really means

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:20 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
No disrespect intended or implied but I find it funny that you guys think he'd prefer Obama.

Ripwash - I don't see anyone else saying Mal would prefer O., other than me, and my rating was a mild, "I don't think he would mind Obama." Not exactly a preference, and definitely not "you guys." Wait... you're not wearing your republican fact disruptor field generator are you?

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:24 AM

Quote:
Wait... you're not wearing your republican fact disruptor field generator are you?

Hehee. I'm not sayin'.

It took Chrisisall's post as, "Mal would refer Obama" but I could be wrong. Like he was saying Bush = Alliance, Obama . . . hope and change *sigh*

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:35 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:

I took Chrisisall's post as, "Mal would refer Obama" but I could be wrong. Like he was saying Bush = Alliance, Obama . . . hope and change *sigh*

I was more meaning it as he'd see Obama's Administration as standard Alliance well-intentioned, though over-controlling BS, and Bush's as the kind that would knowingly employ Operatives.

Also, I am a Libertarian that embraces both Liberal & Conservative principles as the situation calls for. Though, like Bruce Lee, I find labels clumsy at best.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:52 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I don't see anyone else saying Mal would prefer O., other than me

I think he'd prefer Obama as in the lesser of two evils way.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RIPWash:
Again . . . not hashing words, but Obama IS a liberal. Voted most liberal senator in 2007.

http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_comp
osite&o2=desc#results

I'll have to look up the issue about libertarian = classical liberalism, so thanks for pointing that out.

Zoe: "Get it running again."
Mal: "Yeah"
Zoe: "So not running now"
Mal: "Not so much"
- Out of Gas

No offense, but wasn't Madonna once voted "best singer", too? And even being "most liberal" in American politics doesn't address Cit's point. Citizen, in case you were unsure, is from the UK, and they tend to be rather more "liberal" in their views than we in the colonies do. ;) So when he says that we have no liberals in the U.S., he's speaking in terms of the word "liberal" as applies to WORLD politics, not just American politics.

Mike

I can't run no more
with that lawless crowd
while the killers in high places
say their prayers out loud.
But they've summoned, they've summoned up
a thundercloud
and they're going to hear from me.

- Anthem, by Leonard Cohen

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Also, I am a Libertarian that embraces both Liberal & Conservative principles as the situation calls for. Though, like Bruce Lee, I find labels clumsy at best

Well one of the best example of gung fu is a glass of water. Why? Because it is capable of adapting itself to any situation. If you pour it into a cup, it becomes the cup; if you pour it into a bottle, it becomes the bottle; if you pour it into a glass, it becomes the glass. Water is the softest substance in the world, yet it can penetrate the hardest rock. Water is also insubstantial; by that I mean, you cannot grasp hold of it, you cannot punch it and hurt it. So every gung fu man is trying to do that; to be soft like water, to be flexible and able to adapt himself to the opponent.

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Citizen, in case you were unsure, is from the UK, and they tend to be rather more "liberal" in their views than we in the colonies do. ;) So when he says that we have no liberals in the U.S., he's speaking in terms of the word "liberal" as applies to WORLD politics, not just American politics.

Oh, the US has liberals, just not a liberal party or any in politics.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 11:38 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
every gung fu man is trying to do that; to be soft like water

*pees on his opponent*

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:00 PM

WASHNWEAR

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
every gung fu man is trying to do that; to be soft like water

*pees on his opponent*

ROTFL!

It was like that when we got here!

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:45 PM

BYTEMITE

Hey Chrisisall, I think you mean Cheney's adminstration. Everything the Bush administration did was kind of stuff Cheney's had on his agenda for a good long time.

I really don't think Bush had any idea about the torture, the PATRIOT Act, or any part of the decisions to declare war and on who.

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:11 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Speaking of gung fu water... I'm getting this feeling that Obamer supporters are starting to soften overall on the guy. I understand the crash that comes after the high of the victory, but this feels a little early to be pulling back support.

Succumbing to re-pub social pressure? Are we even at 2 months in office yet?

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Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:12 PM

BYTEMITE

As someone who's guilty of that...

I supported Obama because I wanted to believe. I didn't really, but I wanted to.

The minute he didn't live up to expectations by continuing the destabilization of the middle east with bombings in Pakistan, he lost the VERY tentative trust I'd put in him. I didn't vote to become a murderer by association.

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Friday, March 13, 2009 2:54 PM