May the Gods forgive us. by Fremdfirma

Spoken like a true traitor. You need to go to Pearl. Thank God for Genreal LeMay. SAC kept you from being fried by the Soviets. The A bomb was nothing compared to his fire bombing of Japan.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:29 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

There's only one act in all the world I consider sacrilegious blasphemy, and sixty four years ago today, we committed it.

Cannibalism? Your fine with that. Child Rape? I guess you see that as ok too. Dropping a couple really big bombs on a country that started a war with us? Can't do that.

If your referring to the atomic bomb...cry me a river. The Japs asked for it. They even said "pretty please" and I'm sure that somewhere deep down in their warrior culture they were grateful. I'm only sorry it took us so many years to make it happen.

It was war, a war they started, a war they intended to fight to the bitter end. Well we reinvented "the bitter end" and in doing so saved millions of American lives. Brings to mind the 'brings a knife to a gun fight' line.

On behalf of the countless Americans, Japanese, and other persons who lost their lives because of the Empire of Japan...I accept Japan's apology for bombing Pearl Harbor...oops, looks like they forgot to apologize to us. China, yes, Korea, yes, Asian nations, yup...US, no.

Official Obama policy is that only the US need apologize for anything. He's very sorry about that.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:35 AM

Hero, FF is from Michigan. Never mentions General Sherman or Custer. What Sherman did to the south is treason and war crimes. Then good ole Custer. The Southern Cheyenne was at peace with the US. He didn't fair well with Souix did he.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 3:47 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
Hero, FF is from Michigan. Never mentions General Sherman or Custer. What Sherman did to the south is treason and war crimes. Then good ole Custer. The Southern Cheyenne was at peace with the US. He didn't fair well with Souix did he.

The Indians came out worse. Custer and the 7th got killed, the Indians were virtually wiped out as a nation.

As for Sherman...it was neither treason no war crimes. I'm not sure you know what those things are...or you don't really know what Sherman did. I'm from the South and note you fail to mention what Sheridan did in the Valley (which any Virginian will tell you was far worse then Sherman's march), but it was total war and it defeated the South. Absent Sherman and Sheridan the South would still have lost but perhaps remained undefeated, that would have been a national disaster (imagine Lee and Johnston dispersing their armies into the hills for a generation of partisan warfare).

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you"- Chrisisall, 2009.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 3:47 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:

Official Obama policy is that only the US need apologize for anything.

Really? Can you point me to where this "official" U.S. policy is written down and put forth?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 3:51 AM

Quote:
What Sherman did to the south is treason and war crimes.

Yeah, he really would have been better off nuking the south. After all, they started a war with the U.S., and vowed to fight to the bitter end. Guess that end was a bit more bitter once the real Americans sacked the south and burned cities to the ground! Only a true traitor would be backing the south in that fight.

You should ask General Lee how he came out in that deal. Got his ass kicked and sent home with his tail between his legs, didn't he? Too much a coward to even fight to the finish! Typical rebel scum. Sherman should have done more.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 4:20 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Kurt Vonnegut pointed out that the U S Army Air Corp killed nearly as many people in a number of air attacks with conventional weapons- at Dresden, and at a different city in Japan where the "firestorm" was first encountered, I've lost the name... ( Edited -- I was confusing the bombing of Kobe, where it happened first , with the fire bombing of Tokyo, 9–10 March, 1945, approximately 16 square miles of the city were destroyed and some 100,000 people are estimated to have died in the resulting firestorm, more than the immediate deaths of either the Hiroshima or Nagasaki atomic bombs.)
As he put it, from the POV of one of these bombers, " We should get a star after our names in the record book, we had to do it the hard way."

Not sayin' that Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't pretty vicious, nor arguing whether they were necessary or not, but they did convince the Japanese that we were capable of total destruction, and ruthless enough to do it. Wasn't the Surrender signed on, like, September 2, less than a month later?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 4:27 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Frem, before I decry that statement as a very narrow read in the history of dirty deeds, I will wait for you to elucidate.

For my own part, I consider certain acts of the Catholic Church in concert with Spain and Portugal to be more heinous than the bombings of Japan. We'd have literally had to reduce the whole nation to slag in order to match the genocide managed by people who preceded Hitler by a very wide margin.

I also suspect that had a land invasion of Japan occurred, that is precisely the end result the Japanese people would have had to look forward to. Via conventional bombardment and shore bombardment followed by the horrors of front-yard and back-yard warfare, the devastation would have been unthinkable.

The President shot his whole wad at the time (there were no other bombs ready to go at that moment) in hopes of avoiding just such a scenario. He succeeded. Just. It required an unprecedented interference in military matters by the Emperor of Japan to make it happen. There were many elements within Japan still set on fighting to the last.

So, again, I wait to see what it is about this event that ranks it as the most high of sins.

It can't be the destruction of cities...

Nor the death of men, women, and children...

Perhaps it is the lingering radiation that so troubles? That actually makes some sense, from a 'salting of the earth' perspective. It's about the only thing the world had never seen before.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:04 AM

FIVVER

This is a bit personal for me. The father to be of my lovely bride was a navy medic attached to the Marines. His division had already been in action on Okinawa and was slated to land on D-day for the invasion of the home islands. By D+10 his division no longer shows up in the Allied order of battle. The assumption was it would have been destroyed by then. Using the bomb quite probably saved his life and definitely saved thousands of his comrades.

Several years ago I had the privilige of touring Pearl Harbor with him. Seeing through the eyes of a man who was last there while they were still clearing up debris was a moment I'll never forget.

While not technically a Marine he was always invited to the division reunions - even though he was only a swabbie, the Marines respect the medics.

Today he's in his 90s and no longer as spry as he used to be. He is now willing to talk about his experiences so everytime we visit we take a tape recorder.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:18 AM

BYTEMITE

Our attacks on the Japanese homeland during WW2, all of them, from the nukes to the firebombing, would be considered war crimes if any other country had done them. Or rather, if we lost.

WW2 was a horrifying war. I'm not giving a free pass to the other nations who committed war crimes, either, and they committed equally bad ones. Every single country involved killed and tortured civilians, not as collateral damage, but intentionally. Every single one.

It was a dark era of humanity, full of hatred and murder. This thread has disturbed me, and I'm done here.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:28 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
WW2 was a horrifying war. I'm not giving a free pass to the other nations who committed war crimes, either, and they committed equally bad ones. Every single country involved killed and tortured civilians, not as collateral damage, but intentionally. Every single one.

It was a dark era of humanity, full of hatred and murder. This thread has disturbed me, and I'm done here.

That's very well stated.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:36 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

is definitely a hard topic...

Yeah, I just read Slaughterhouse 5 again about 2 weeks ago, and I guess conventional weapons can also exact the same kind of death toll...

I'm vaguely conflicted on hiroshima, I am disturbed by Nagasaki. How many bombs did we have? Could we have dropped one in demonstration somewhere? I know the counter to this is that the Japanese didn't readily surrender after Hiroshima, but could we have waited some time?

It is certainly technology(the weaponized side of it) of disturbing magnitude and I wish it didn't exist in that form---on the flip side, it could be argued that somebody was going to get that bomb...I'm not sure how good my history is on this but I did watch an old star trek episode...

wasn't Germany in development of one themselves?

I will say I feel very little ill will towards the scientist who helped the russians get up to speed, and I think, given our history, or any country's history for that matter, that as not only a citizen of the U.S., but as a fellow human being on this Earth, I am glad we had an arms race and not our own private bullying device. (and yes, I know how bad stalin was)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:54 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Have to look back on it but... I recall an analysis that indicated the Japanese were within a few days of surrender. The Bomb was sent as a warning shot across RUSSIA'S bow, should they have plans on Japan. The message was: We'll annihilate anyone, including you.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:43 AM

Hero, you proved my point. Sherman and Grant devised a plan to end the South from making war. War is ugly. You must devastate the enemy. The South was the better soldier. Now you have a sneak attack on the Pacific Forces. 30,000 armed and supplied troops surrender. The Bataan Death March should never be forgotten. The rape of China. Tarawa and Saipan are unbelievable losses for the Marine Corp. FF doesn't care how many US troops would have died in an invasion. The second bomb was dropped because Tojo wouldn't surrender. Then a coup was lead to the unconditional surrender on the USS Missouri. When the Germans not just SS pulled back from Russia the rape of children and murder of there parents in every town is really not known to the public. When Stalin's troops got to the border of Germany the order was only babies are innocent. So I don't care what happened in Berlin. They deserved it.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:50 AM

Kinko, I have only one response to you. Shane would say this to ya "Your a low down lyen Yankee".

The Blockfighter has few words for ya too.

Big Shtyle

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 7:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

It's interesting that people who value Firefly put such small thought towards the concept of Small People getting ground up by Big Forces. Japan, USA, Soviet Union, China... one Alliance versus another, with people caught in the middle.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 7:28 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
So I don't care what happened in Berlin. They deserved it.

Sure, the children and young teenaged girls totally had it coming.

Does it ever enter your mind that some things are just wrong, no justification necessary? If it's wrong when the Nazis did it, it's wrong when the Russians did it. Or anyone else does it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 7:39 AM

Agent, so did Ike. It's apathy like yours that it happens in the first place.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 8:06 AM

PirateCrap:

Go ahead, call me a "lyen Yankee" some more. Nothin's better than being called a "winner" by someone who thinks they're trying to insult you - or have you forgotten who WON that little tiff? Yeah... that'd be the side my family fought on. I've still got my great-great-great-grandfather's Springfield rifle that he carried into the war against those filthy rebel scum, too.

Once again you've shown yourself to be a traitor to your country, backing those who would secede and attack the country they supposedly "love".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 8:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
Agent, so did Ike. It's apathy like yours that it happens in the first place.

No, it's scumbag "my country right or wrong" nationalist pricks like you that cause shit like that to happen in the first place. Hitler didn't come to power because of "apathy" - he came to power on a wave of rampant nationalism, ushered in as the conquering hero by a group of rabid scumbag nationalists who decided that ANYTHING their country did was automatically okay, because they were somehow special and above everyone else in the world.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 8:11 AM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
Agent, so did Ike. It's apathy like yours that it happens in the first place.

So my opposition to ANYone being raped and murdered is the kind of apathy that caused ww2?

Good to know.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 8:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Hitler didn't come to power because of "apathy" - he came to power on a wave of rampant nationalism, ushered in as the conquering hero by a group of rabid scumbag nationalists who decided that ANYTHING their country did was automatically okay, because they were somehow special and above everyone else in the world.

Well said.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 8:52 AM

ANTHONY

Quote:
Frem, before I decry that statement as a very narrow read in the history of dirty deeds, I will wait for you to elucidate.

And I appreciate it, especially watching the authoritarian lapdogs have their little hissy over what they THOUGHT I meant, rather than what I did - despite me having stated this objection before.

My objection isn't to the bombings per se, my objection is a RELIGIOUS objection in point of fact.

Using the fire of the gods to power our cities is hubris and usurpation, which humans being humans is perhaps forgiveable and does come with it's own consequences and risks...

But using our stolen fire as a weapon against each other ?

No, there's no way I can find that acceptable in ANY way, it's sacreliege, blasphemy of the highest order, and the really obvious horrific consequences of doing so even without any moral implications behind it means we damn well ought to have the good sense to leave well the hell enough ALONE when it comes to weaponising things we weren't meant to have quite yet.

And yeah, the fact that it killed well over a hundred thousand people in the blink of an eye isn't lost on me neither, but I think folks fail to understand the NATURE of my objection, which of course isn't the only one I have against the idea, it's just the deepest and strongest.

AGENTR

Quote:
Does it ever enter your mind that some things are just wrong, no justification necessary? If it's wrong when the Nazis did it, it's wrong when the Russians did it. Or anyone else does it.

Very cogent, and exactly my point.

Oh, and for those little lapdogs barking madly at me blaspheming the destruction they worship as god ?

I am initially from MARYLAND, specifically Baltimore - you know, the folks who wanted to kill that insane meglomaniacal bastard Lincoln who decided to wipe his ass with the Constitution, and lynch his fucking Pinkerton goons besides, and got right pissed when his cowardly little lying ass creeped through like a burglar in the night, which was about on par for the rest of his monstrous actions.

We're the folk who brought you Ex Parte Merryman you assholes, in response to your "hero" Lincolns attempt to bring the terror of the midnight knock to America while reducing it to a fascist dictatorship, to which Lincoln had the typical tyrannical temper tantrum (not surprising as the mercury laden 'Blue Mass' pills he was takin were eatin holes in his brain) and tried to have Taney arrested too!

That fucker arrested our mayor, city council, police commissioner, tossed any legislator or news editor who disagreed with his insanity in the brig with em, and to hell with the Constitution, Maryland has not forgotten this.

We didn't want any part of that stinkin war, and in the end, what caused Maryland to have primarily southern sympathies was the simple fact that the Confederacy left us be, while Lincoln and his damn blue suited goons felt some pressing NEED to grind their fucking boot in our face cause we weren't all hoo-rah and subservient to an obviously idiotic plan, especially given the fairly obvious (at the time) thought that it'd be OUR state which would bear the brunt of the damage, not the opulent estates of the Lincoln and his pre-corporate robber baron supporters, oh no.

You really wanna get me started on a man who felt the pressing need to drop artillery shells on Americans who didn't wanna shoot their own countrymen, and press them into conscript-slavery as cannon fodder at the point of bayonets, all the while pretending to decry the institution of slavery itself as mere rhetoric ?

The fact that we built statues of that monster instead of the man who rid us of him is just one more example of all that's wrong in the world.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 8:55 AM

Oh, and just to make it CRYSTAL clear, here's a little visual comparison for you.

BOSTON MASSACRE

NY DRAFT RIOTS

So, other than the color of the uniforms, did anything really change for the people on the recieving end of those volleys ?

Lincoln was a monster, folks - more of a Tyrant than King George could have ever hoped to be.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 10:52 AM

Honda driver.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:33 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I have some thoughts on these issues.

First, the only viable alternative to nuclear arms that I could see for Japan was a naval and aerial siege of the island. This would have minimized American casualties while reducing the inhabitants to a nearly pre-industrial state. It seems likely that if they maintained any semblance of a war footing, the entire island might have starved to death.

Second, while I will agree that Lincoln was a tyrant, I can not agree that he was a monster. The difference is perhaps moot to most. I think he was genuinely trying to do the right thing, but went about it in the wrong way. Time and again. The fact that he won in the end nonwithstanding. It would have been preferable if he'd used economic incentives to unite the nation, and not treated the idea of secession as a horror. Rather, it was the misstep of misguided children. Better to prove that it was a misstep in the fullness of time rather than stab the unruly youngster with a bayonet.

Third, returning to the issue of the A-bomb... while I hold religious convictions of my own, I would be sorely tempted to choose any weapon which ensured the minimal amount of overall casualties. I do not know for certain that I would make the same decision to drop the bomb, because it is a horrible decision. But I would be tempted, ironically, for humanitarian concerns.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:55 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Two Questions

1) Would Lincoln still have the same place in history if he had not have been killed ? Did his death save his legacy and halt the criticism of his policys and the aftermath of them. If Bush the second had of been killed a year ago would that have made him a better president?

2) The decision process to use or not use nuclear weapons has been debated since their use, is this the reason why Americans are so dead set against anyone else having such weapons, as others may use the same logic and morality you have displayed in making the decision to use nuclear weapons against the United States...

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 12:43 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Two Questions

1) Would Lincoln still have the same place in history if he had not have been killed ? Did his death save his legacy and halt the criticism of his policys and the aftermath of them. If Bush the second had of been killed a year ago would that have made him a better president?

2) The decision process to use or not use nuclear weapons has been debated since their use, is this the reason why Americans are so dead set against anyone else having such weapons, as others may use the same logic and morality you have displayed in making the decision to use nuclear weapons against the United States...

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

Hello,

1A) Lincoln would doubtless be remembered as the 'Savior of the Union' by those who cared about such things. The fact that he was assassinated enhances the legend of the man, but prosecuting the war successfully (eventually) would have made him forever remembered and lauded by the majority of Americans regardless.

1B) I do not think that my opinion of Bush would have been enhanced by his assassination. I can not speak for others in this regard. Generally, I think an assassination might serve to make a liked person more liked, but I do not think it enhances the legacy of a disliked person. People say nice things at funerals but those things have no actual impact on their true impressions of a person.

2A) I am not against others having Nuclear Arms. It makes me understandably nervous, but not as nervous as I was during the Cold War when an end-of-world scenario wasn't just possible... It was policy.

2B) I am quite convinced that if anyone has nuclear arms, and deem those nuclear arms as the option which results in the least possible loss of life... That they will employ them. In fact, the best philosophy for all weapons is generally to use the one that will accomplish your goals most efficiently. Fortunately, there are powerful political and ecological considerations that conspire to make sure that the use of Nukes is almost always the wrong decision. I am thankful that there are no more fortress islands warring with us.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 2:23 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

1a) I disagree about Lincoln... if he had not of been killed, any post war reconciliation would have been that much more difficult, as well as he would have had to have taken the blame for many of the post war problems.. as would have been fair.

1b) I disagree here as well, using Kennedy as an example, I think Kennedy would also have been viewed by history quite differently had he lived, and by that I don't mean in a good way

2a) But by large you will admit Americans are terrified to deal with other countrys with equal arms right?

2b) " Fortunately, there are powerful political and ecological considerations that conspire to make sure that the use of Nukes is almost always the wrong decision. "

This would limit the foreign policy of the US as it counters the threat of invasion / attack or airstrike as the threat of retaliation would be great... or perhaps that is the objection

" I don't believe in hypothetical situations - it's kinda like lying to your brain "

" They don't hate America, they hate Americans " Homer Simpson

Lets party like its 1939

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 3:01 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Gino,

I must reassert my objection to your premise. Assassination does not in and of itself elevate historical opinion. One would be hard pressed to find many in the nation today who hold fond feeling or esteem or even any strong opinion at all for Presidents Garfield and Mckinley. Assassination was clearly not the public relations coup that might be hoped for in their cases.

You might say that assassination prevents someone from making inevitable mistakes that would come to ruin good public opinion, but saying so also involves prophecy that such mistakes would have been made, and that they would have outweighed potential successes. For all we know, Lincoln might have handled reunification brilliantly. Or he might have been soiled by the process. We can't know for certain. In any event, assassination stops the clock on opinion, but it is not the guarantor or creator of it.

I think, of course, that most Americans would prefer that no one in the world had the power to harm them. So yes, most Americans prefer to hold all the cards, even the nuclear ones.

However, I like the idea that one nation can not simply go marauding through the world and do what it wants without any consideration. We do enough marauding as it is, and I'm not happy with it. Even if I hold the U.S. to be my favorite nation, it does not mean I want to see it become a completely unrestrained monstrosity able to inflict upon the nations its every whimsy.

I suppose with my support for Free Trade and decreased foreign entanglements, I am a very old fashioned fuddy duddy of the pre-WWII variety, despite my more contemporary birthdate. As such, you really can't ascribe my opinions to the majority of Americans.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 3:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
Honda driver.

99 Oldsmobile Alero, nitwit, which you'd know if you ever paid attention to anything but your own ego, and it happens to be a rattletrap piece of junk filed under lemon law TWICE, by two different owners, for three different causes.

And just what the hell is "american made" regarding a car assembled in mexico with chinese parts anyway?
(Lookin at YOU, Ford!)

If wanted a decent american made car, I'd buy a fucking Nissan, you nitwit.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,451002-1,00.html

And who knows, the brakes might actually WORK for more than 3500 miles, too.
http://www.gmproblems.com/brakes.htm
"51% of Oldsmobile Alero owners reported problems with their brakes or rotors."

Oh, and that flag you're waving in your pedantic little hypernationalist frenzy there, kiddo ?

Most likely made in China, especially if it has no country of origin and is labelled "Distributed By (random american based shell company)" in order to conceal that fact.

Jerk.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 3:49 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

This response reminds me of a game called Star Control 2.

In it, there was a race of aliens called the P'kunk.

They were a spiritual people who charged their ships' batteries by absorbing the anger of their opponents. Their starship's 'special function' was to shout epithets like, "Jerk! Nitwit!" over the communications system, which provoked the energizing response.

They could also potentially resurrect themselves from the dead, which was at least an equally impressive skill.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 3:57 PM

Frem, I think PirateCrap was aiming the "Honda driver" remark at me, as if he thought it was supposed to be an insult.

And yes, I *am* a Honda driver; have been for more than 20 years now. Currently down to three of 'em. My daily-driver is a 5-speed Accord Wagon that was made right up in Hero's neck of the woods, in Honda's Marysville, Ohio plant. In fact, if you own a Honda Accord station wagon anywhere in the world, it was built in that plant.

'Course, if you own a Camaro or Firebird built after at least 1982, it was made in Canada.

So much for "Buy American!", eh, hosers?

If you think you own an "American" car, you're probably wrong. As I'm sure Fremdfirma can confirm, we don't build shit in this country any more, especially cars in any kind of quantity. Hell, even the beloved Ford F150 pickup is built in Mexico, Venezuela, Canada, and Brazil nowadays. But don't let that stop you from slamming a giant 'Murrican flag and a big set o' TrukNutz on it and yelling "I'm proud to be an AMERICAN!" while you drive it down to the unemployment office!

Mike

Sweeping generalizations are always wrong!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:01 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

On the topic of 'buying American'...

The best thing you can do for America is to buy the best product you can at the best price available. That is the American way, and anyone who tells you differently is a socialist. ;-)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 5:32 PM

DREAMTROVE

I think the Federal Govt. of the United States, a small parasite which sits on a microstate we commonly call "the mall" an untouchable sovereign nation by which we allow ourselves to be led has never had the interests of the american people or anyone else at heart.

I just wanted to define "Us."

If you mean a capital "US" then, no, they won't. Neither will Japan or history.

I have to agree with Frem, in reference to the use of the phrase "one act" as refering to a singular act, then yes, it stands alone, almost, except for the fact that we did it twice.

I will ignore the surrender monkeys which is their due. Surrender was already under discussion. The US knew that "we" could never take Japan. This was about "their" empire, which was the surrender, that of Imperial Japan. The sovereignty of the island nation of Japan was never in question. It still ranks as one of three nations in the world the Pentagon claims that it could under no circumstances defeat. Everyone can name the other two.

Under Arch-traitor Harry Truman, the US intentionally targeted a civilian population in an act of terrorism unparalleled by any individual act committed by anyone, if only for the singularity of intent, unwavering purpose and execution, which put it above things like the demolition of a dam, I don't remember the name, in China in WWII, which caught the Japanese soldiers it was intended to catch, and killed 100s of thousands of Chinese civilians.

But beyond that, it unleashed a new era of total destruction of all life.

I recently read a history of a girls' school that was close to ground zero, which followed a girl up to the day of her vaporization, along with everyone she had ever known.

Only the bamboo survived. This is perhaps our fate. We will enter the fossil record as a natural disaster of mass extinction, accomplishing nothing, and overrun by grasses and forests as our so called civilization sinks beneath the Earth, like who knows how many before us...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, August 6, 2009 8:11 PM