What would you think if a long-time gun control advocate ended up shooting someone? Might the word “hypocrite” come to mind? It did for me, and apparently for many other..."/>

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Gun control senator arrested for shooting 'home invader' client

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Saturday, January 16, 2010 11:23
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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:05 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

What would you think if a long-time gun control advocate ended up shooting someone? Might the word “hypocrite” come to mind?

It did for me, and apparently for many others.

The Richmond Times-Dispatch reports North Carolina state senator R.C. Soles shot one of two intruders who attempted to break into his house.

But it gets even more interesting than the mere hypocrisy of a gun control activist shooting somebody.

The New York Times reports Soles won’t be seeking re-election, which is not a surprise since state prosecutors have said they plan to charge Soles because “he acted criminally when he shot a former law client.”

WWAY sheds additional light on this:

Quote:

Thursday, a Columbus County grand jury found probable cause to seek an indictment against Soles for assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious injury.

In late August, Soles shot 22-year-old Kyle Blackburn outside the Senator’s home in Tabor City.

Blackburn was a client of Soles’ law firm. Soles told police he shot Blackburn in self-defense, saying that Blackburn was trying to break into his home. Blackburn told us he was leaving the property when he was shot.

While what happens within a grand jury proceeding is secret, we can presume that ballistics evidence was part of what was reviewed yesterday, specifically whether the bullet wound indicated that Blackburn was facing the Senator or running away when he was shot.

We also know surveillance cameras were running at Senator Soles’ house at the time of the shooting.

The shooting itself wasn’t captured on camera, but what transpired before and after the shooting may have helped the jurors determine how the events played out.



Now, I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for someone who advocates diminishing the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans. But when I learn that they consider themselves elite enough to own a weapon, any sympathy I might have had goes out the door.

And apparently this wasn’t even a clear-cut case of self-defense. The shooter knew the man who was shot, and a grand jury found sufficient evidence to charge the shooter for criminal activity.

This happened a few months ago, but I’m just now finding out about it from Marty Rickard. Better late than never, to find out about this kind of hypocrisy from a member of the gun control lobby.



It looks bad when the unmarried old man who has a lot of teen boys hanging around his place has to shoot one of them on his front porch.
http://www.wwaytv3.com/node/9887

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:21 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


more details:

"TABOR CITY, N.C. (AP) — A sheriff says North Carolina's longest serving state lawmaker has shot one of two intruders who kicked in the front door of his home.

Columbus County Sheriff Chris Batten tells The Star-News of Wilmington that 74-year-old state Sen. R.C. Soles shot the man who was taken to a hospital."

Innocent until proven guilty.

I have to say, if I were 74 and TWO young men came to my home and kicked my front door in, I would be just a little apprehensive for my own safety.

Wouldn't you ?


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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:32 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Can't shoot somebody in your yard who is not attacking you. Sounds like this senator never took a handgun carry class.

Presentment by grand jury is not an indictment, and is a "runaway grand jury" telling a county prosecutor what to do. The presentment forced the state prosecutor to indict the senator with another grand jury. THAT'S how every grand jury is supposed to fight govt corruption.
www.wral.com/asset/news/state/2009/12/10/6592846/Columbus_County_prese
ntment.swf


Quote:

Below is a statement issued by Joe Cheshire, Senator Soles' personal attorney:

We have been informed that the Columbus County Grand Jury has returned a presentment in the case of our client, Senator RC Soles. To be clear, a presentment is not an indictment or a criminal charge. It is simply a request by the Grand Jury to be allowed to consider whether probable cause exists for an indictment or charge. As the Grand Jury continues its work, Senator Soles continues to maintain that he acted in defense of his life and his home on August 23, 2009.

--Statement of Joe Cheshire and Brad Bannon

According to the Attorney General's office, a presentment can be the step before the presentation of a true bill of indictment to a grand jury.



The pistol-packin senator has now been indicted and arrested:

Quote:

Soles turns himself in

Jan 8, 2010

R.C. Soles has spent 42 years in the state senate. His visit to jail lasted barely as many minutes.

The longest serving member of the state legislature turned himself in just after 11 a.m. Friday. Thursday a grand jury indicted him for assault with a deadly weapon. The charge stems from the August shooting of Kyle Blackburn, a law client of the senator, at Soles's home outside Tabor City.

"I wish I were free to comment to you," Soles told reporters on his way into the jail. "But it would be totally inappropriate under any circumstances now."

The senator said nothing as he walked back to his car around noon after posting a $5,000 bond. His attorney said little more, including when asked how the criminal charges would affect Soles's ability to serve out the remainder of his term.

"You know I want to leave all questions like that until later," attorney Brad Bannon said, "and I hope you all can appreciate that, because this is now a pending case, and there are rules about as it relates to speaking about pending cases publicly."

Soles's next court date is scheduled for Feb. 10.

...

Grand jury indicts Soles

A Columbus County grand jury indicted Sen. R.C. Soles for assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious injury. Last month, a grand jury found probable cause to believe Soles had acted unlawfully when he shot 22-year-old Kyle Blackburn, a client of his law firm.

Soles said former client Kyle Blackburn was trying to break into his home outside Tabor City when the shooting took place five months ago. Today a grand jury decided there was enough evidence to move forward with a trial for North Carolina's longest serving state senator.

The grand jury met at the Columbus County Court House behind close doors. Nine new members were selected to replace those who had fulfilled their service since granting the presentment last month. Just after 2 p.m. the jury returned 59 true bills of indictment, one indicting Soles for assault with a deadly weapon, which is a Class E felony. If he's found guilty Soles could serve up to two and a half years in prison. His next court date is scheduled for February 10.

Soles's attorneys Joe Cheshire and Brad Bannon said in a statement: "We are disappointed with the indictment of Senator Soles and maintain that he was acting in defense of himself and his home on August 23. We will continue to work with the Attorney General’s Office to resolve this unfortunate matter, consistent with the truth. Absent any new developments, we will have no further public comment about it."

No word yet on when soles will be arrested or turn himself in.

http://www.wwaytv3.com/news_tags/sen_rc_soles_0



Soles is a Democrat, but I can't find links to his actual anti-gun legislation, which is swamped in the search results by his arrest.

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 10:43 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


As a retired law enforcement officer, at one of the largest departments in the country, I've had the opportunity to investigate every type of criminal act conceivable. This appears to be one of those cases where political party affiliation is determining the decision whether to prosecute or not. Let me remind those who are not knowledgeable of the criminal justice system, RC Soles has not been charged with any crime. There has only been a determination that probable cause exist to warrant a grand jury investigation. Even if the grand jury should indict, there is still not enough evidence to convict. I quiver at the notion that an investigation is proceeding to determine whether the suspect was facing Soles or not. There is no disputing that the bad guy broke into Soles house when he was shot. I could care less where he was shot. Let us stop this practice of trying to remove someone from political office by way of drummed up criminal charges, where no crime exist. I would guess that most people would agree with Soles actions. I'm interested to see if the party that claims to protect gun owner’s safety in their homes comes to the protection of Soles. I have met RC a few times. He seems like a very wise and decent man. While I may or may not agree with choices in his private life, I support his right to feel safe in his home. Let the bad guy know up front, if you choose to commit violent crimes, and endanger others, be prepared for the consequences. It is way overdue to protect citizen’s rights to be safe in their homes. Begin with RC Soles.



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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:20 AM

BYTEMITE


Rue: That's the impression I'm getting too. I think this Senator pissed someone off and his party is hanging him now. It's a lot like what Republicans did to Larry Craig (though the guy is a sleazeball... All politicians are).

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 1:12 PM

FREMDFIRMA


I feel little sympathy for him for different reasons.

Thing is, we do get home invasions on occasion, not here, especially since we took over site three, but east of here - they mostly go after homeowners, not renters anyways.

But if you even BRANDISH at these guys, when the cops show up they'll throw YOU up against the wall, slam you to the floor, give you the ole kneestomp to the neck and cuff you, then try everything in their power to arrest YOU - and failing that, oh, too bad about those suspects, yeah, they got away, oh well...

THAT kind of attitude, and the political support for it, is the direct cause of a lot of needless strife on this issue, and this particular Senator finding himself on the business end of behavior his actions have contributed to doesn't buy him much sympathy from me, to be honest.

Especially since so many "gun control" people are complete hypocrites about it - one of the prime movers up here about it was caught with a drop-gun that had the serial numbers filed off not long ago, and lets not even go there about how the "mark of doom" (i.e. Felony Conviction) is abused against people...
(two relevant cases here)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/046620.html
http://southcarolinaappellatelaw.blogspot.com/2007/08/fourth-circuit-g
rants-habeas-relief-for.html


You'll note that I say "little" rather than "none", cause despite all that has passed, it still ain't right to hang a man out to dry for defending himself and his home, and I do smell political Schadenfreude coming off of this - in all honestly I woulda hoped this changed his perspective and he would run for re-election, people CAN learn, yanno.

IMHO, once someone with ill intent has breached your door and crossed the threshold of your home, provided you can do so without needlessly endangering your neighbors, firing on them is completely justified.

That said, my people aren't armed on the job cause there ain't any damned need for it, 95% of the 'crime' around here is petty property crime, and the rare few shootings that do happen are between people who know each other - it just doesn't make sense to bother with the additional training it would take to satisfy me that carrying a weapon wouldn't alter their mindset, and it's just one more thing to lug around and get in the way of their situational awareness which is better at *preventing* an incident than a weapon is at solving one.

Be that as it may, lack of sympathy or not, the guy was defending himself and his home from someone with hostile intent who kicked in his door and crossed the threshold - that's clear enough for me, and if you're unwilling to stand up for the rights of folks you despise, or who use them in ways that offend you, then you're naught but a tyrant and a hypocrite yourself.

EVERYONE, or NO ONE, period.

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

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Wednesday, January 13, 2010 2:38 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:

As a retired law enforcement officer, at one of the largest departments in the country, I've had the opportunity to investigate every type of criminal act conceivable. This appears to be one of those cases where political party affiliation is determining the decision whether to prosecute or not. Let me remind those who are not knowledgeable of the criminal justice system, RC Soles has not been charged with any crime. There has only been a determination that probable cause exist to warrant a grand jury investigation.



Just because you shake hands with someone dont mean they're a good person. Especially politicians, who routinely lie to your face to get your vote, and pass bills written by lobbyists without reading them (and cash their bribes, er, "unspent campaign contributions"). I got conned into voting for Clinton/Gore in 1992, just to get rid of Bush #1 (never again will I vote Demorat, nor Republicon).

The grand jury has already indicted, this week, and the senator was booked into the jail, then released on bail.

No arrest of the client/victim, no charges against the client/victim.

There was no probable cause hearing apparently, since there was apparently no initial arrest on the day of the shooting. No cop dares arrest a senator for shooting a "burgler". It's optional for a defendant to demand a pre-trial PC hearing after GJ indictment.

Hence the grand jury doing its own investigation and presentment, then a 2nd grand jury doing an indictment under control of a prosecutor.

There will be no probable cause hearing, since the grand jury already decided probable cause.

The senator is a lawyer full-time, senator part-time.

The senator/lawyer shot one of his own clients who to came to see him. Probably a disgruntled client. Perhaps an insane criminal client high on drugs wanting the commit a burglery. Or an angry client who got ripped off by his lawyer.

The client survived the gunshot, and has 2 eyewitnesses who will also testify against the senator/lawyer.

Prosecutors normally call this a "slam dunk" case against the senator/lawyer.

I predict a backroom deal will be done, plea bargain, no jail, no community service. Then a big civil lawsuit against the senator/lawyer for personal injury, also settled quietly out of court.

James Cameron's secret anti-gun AVATAR script: "Redneck NRA Supporters " and "Freakin’ Militia!"
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmnolte/2010/01/13/james-cameron-li
ke-the-redneck-nra-supporters-they-are
/

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 4:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
As a retired law enforcement officer, at one of the largest departments in the country, I've had the opportunity to investigate every type of criminal act conceivable.



Didn't know you were a retired law enforcement officer.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 5:29 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Case in point...

Handcuffed, Disarmed for Obeying the Law
http://www.lewrockwell.com/suprynowicz/suprynowicz141.html

"Upon presentation of my (firearms permit), the officer asked if I had the weapon on me to which I replied yes. She then said to spread my legs and put my hands behind my back. I complied and she then handcuffed me. While doing so, she said that she wanted to make certain 'that we were all safe.'"

Officer Rogers stripped Mr. Mitchener of the Glock 19 he was carrying, took the weapon and locked it in her patrol car.

"Bear in mind that she had yet to clear my office (she was waiting for backup for clearing)," Charlie writes. "So, while remote, there was the possibility that the bad guys were still in my office and would come rushing out, finding me, to their delight, handcuffed. Apparently I was not included in her comment 'that we were all safe.' It is always nice when law-abiding citizens, particularly myself, are disposable.

"An hour or so later, when she had completed her paperwork, she came back in the office; I was in the rear and did not see her enter. She came to me and said that she had put my weapon in the second drawer on the left in the receptionist's desk.


======

Again, that's a pretty sick sense of priority, the same insanity as the Police and Military during Katrina leaving folks in need of rescue hanging out to dry while they focused on disarming people.

I also find myself struck by the insane dichotomy of thought on behalf of the local cops - if they encounter me in uniform, they treat me as backup (this cause the few times we've interacted professionally in a "situation" I have backed them up, efficiently and effectively), and yet when they encounter me out of uniform they act like I am some kind of rabid psycho killer who's just waiting for them to blink...

This despite the fact that they know and recognize me in both cases.

-F

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:12 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


It would be interesting to see an actual cite indicating that Sen. Soles was really anti-gun.

That being said, being from the South myself, I'd find it kind of hard to believe that a North Carolina Grand Jury would indict someone if it was anything close to a clear case of self-defense.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:19 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
I'd find it kind of hard to believe that a North Carolina Grand Jury would indict someone if it was anything close to a clear case of self-defense.


This is AMERICA, Geeze! NO ONE takes away job security from the po-lice!


The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:31 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


911 calls surrounding Senator Soles tell a familiar story

'...Caller: " um, yeah, I just wanted to report that over, I’m in tabor city, and over at R.C. Soles' law firm, there's some guys messing with him and screaming and cussing at him. I didn't know if maybe somebody could go and check it out."

A witness described what they have viewed. “I've seen R.C. start to pull out and him just be so mad at some of them, but then he'd hand them money… I have seen him outside with sticks, and him telling them that he was going to work on them if he ever got a hold of them.”

Despite the often tumultuous relationships and dozens of calls to police, the Senator declined to press charges for trespassing time and time again.

Soles also continues to represent many of the young men involved.

Two of the most outstanding examples of those who have received money from the Senator that we've documented include $8,000 given to client BJ Wright while he was in jail, and an estimated $100,000 given to Allen Strickland for a new house and car.'

http://www.wwaytv3.com/node/18281



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Friday, January 15, 2010 5:55 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Let me quote this in bold, since some are under the misunderstanding that the man was indicted: "found probable cause to seek an indictment". NOTE: he has not been indicted.



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Friday, January 15, 2010 6:00 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


THE NOT SO 'GRAND' JURY


http://www.abanet.org/media/faqjury.html


Frequently Asked Questions About the Grand Jury System
What is the purpose of the grand jury?
The primary function of the modern grand jury is to review the evidence presented by the prosecutor and determine whether there is probable cause to return an indictment.

The original purpose of the grand jury was to act as a buffer between the king (and his prosecutors) and the citizens. Critics argue that this safeguarding role has been erased, and the grand jury simply acts as a rubber stamp for the prosecutor.

Since the role of the grand jury is only to determine probable cause, there is no need for the jury to hear all the evidence, or even conflicting evidence. It is left to the good faith of the prosecutor to present conflicting evidence.

In the federal system, the courts have ruled that the grand jury has extraordinary investigative powers that have been developed over the years since the 1950s. This wide, sweeping, almost unrestricted power is the cause of much of the criticism. The power is virtually in complete control of the prosecutor, and is pretty much left to his or her good faith.

The grand jury hears only cases brought to it by the prosecutor. The prosecutor decides which witnesses to call. The prosecutor decides which witnesses will receive immunity. The basic questioning is done by the prosecutor on a theory he or she articulates. The grand jury members are generally permitted to ask questions at the end of a witness's testimony. The prosecutor generally decides if he or she has enough evidence to seek an indictment. Occasionally the grand jurors may be asked whether they would like to hear any additional witnesses, but since their job is only to judge what the prosecutor has produced, they rarely ask to do so.

The prosecutor drafts the charges and reads them to the grand jury. There is no requirement that the grand jury be read any instructions on the law, and such instructions are rarely given.

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Friday, January 15, 2010 7:46 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Let me quote this in bold, since some are under the misunderstanding that the man was indicted: "found probable cause to seek an indictment". NOTE: he has not been indicted.



Well, not so much.

Quote:

Published Thu, Jan 07, 2010 03:18 PM

State Sen. R.C. Soles Jr. has been indicted in connection with an August shooting at Soles' Tabor City home.

A Columbus County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment Thursday charging Soles with assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious injury.

On Aug. 23, Soles shot Thomas Kyle Blackburn. Soles said that Blackburn and another man were trying to intrude into Soles' home and that the shooting was in self-defense.

The indictment was expected since the grand jury had previously found probable cause in the case.

The prosecution is being handled by the Attorney General's Office because District Attorney Rex Gore, who has long ties to Soles, recused himself from the case.

Soles is the longest serving lawmaker in the state and he was a key member of the Democratic leadership in the Senate. He announced last week that he did not intend to seek re-election.



http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local_state/story/273014.html

But the issue isn't really whether Sen. Soles was defending himself or not. The issue is his hypocracy in pushing an anti-gun agenda yet arrogating to himself the very right of self-defense with a firearm that he would withhold from others.



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 15, 2010 8:20 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Bill of indictment (def)

A formal written document that is drawn up by a government prosecutor accusing a designated person of having committed a felony or misdemeanor and which is presented to a Grand Jury so that it may take action upon it.


When they return it finding probable cause it is considered a true bill of indictment. However, the grand jury doesn't indict. That's left to the prosecutor.


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Friday, January 15, 2010 8:21 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Still nothing here that indicates whether or not he wants to outlaw guns.

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Friday, January 15, 2010 9:16 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

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Friday, January 15, 2010 10:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


This is just partisan bullshit. Sen Soles was rated "A" by the NRA.
Quote:

2008 Based on lifetime voting records on gun issues and the results of a questionnaire sent to all candidates in 2008, the National Rifle Association Political Victory Fund assigned Senator Soles a grade of A (with grades ranging from a high of A+ to a low of F).


www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=5930&type=category&
category=37


Meanwhile, peeps here were flipping out because a British court ruled against a homeowner who chased down a home invader and beat him into brain damage??? Seems like you guys can't decide what you want!

It might help if you did some actual... yanno... thinking from time to time.

First of all, verify the facts. You assumed that bc he was a Democrat he was "anti-gun". You have no idea how he actually voted, and what he stands for.

Secondly, clarify your definitions. Its easy to use terms like "anti-gun", but... really, what does that mean? Does that mean he's for gun registration? Or does he really want to take guns out of people's hands?

Thirdly, test the same set of facts in different contexts. Would you have felt different if the guy was Republican? If he was a member of the NRA? If he was a woman?

You guys... all set to form a lynch mob, aren't you?

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Friday, January 15, 2010 10:32 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


At least we know who the partisan lynch mob is !

(Geezer, take a bow. You're not the only, but you sure do like to pretend you're not one of them.)



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Friday, January 15, 2010 11:14 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Let me quote this in bold, since some are under the misunderstanding that the man was indicted: "found probable cause to seek an indictment". NOTE: he has not been indicted.



Well, not so much.

Quote:

Published Thu, Jan 07, 2010 03:18 PM

State Sen. R.C. Soles Jr. has been indicted in connection with an August shooting at Soles' Tabor City home.

A Columbus County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment Thursday charging Soles with assault with a deadly weapon inflicting serious injury.

On Aug. 23, Soles shot Thomas Kyle Blackburn. Soles said that Blackburn and another man were trying to intrude into Soles' home and that the shooting was in self-defense.

The indictment was expected since the grand jury had previously found probable cause in the case.

The prosecution is being handled by the Attorney General's Office because District Attorney Rex Gore, who has long ties to Soles, recused himself from the case.

Soles is the longest serving lawmaker in the state and he was a key member of the Democratic leadership in the Senate. He announced last week that he did not intend to seek re-election.



http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local_state/story/273014.html

But the issue isn't really whether Sen. Soles was defending himself or not. The issue is his hypocracy in pushing an anti-gun agenda yet arrogating to himself the very right of self-defense with a firearm that he would withhold from others.



"Keep the Shiny side up"



Can a lawmaker be in favor of stricter gun laws and licensing requirements yet still be in favor of having the right to self-defense?


By the way, that actually wasn't any kind of snark or smart-assery aimed at Geezer. I was really asking a legitimate question there, not just of Geezer, but of the board at large.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 15, 2010 11:41 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


If he did even that, would he be rated A by the NRA ? Just wondering. Because people here were leaping to conclusions (I'm looking at YOU, Geezer: "The issue is his hypocracy in pushing an anti-gun agenda ...") about his record based on nothing other than right-wing tabloid nut-cases who happen to have a forum. And I STILL don't know what his actual record and position are.

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Friday, January 15, 2010 11:41 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
This is just partisan bullshit. Sen Soles was rated "A" by the NRA.



And Grass Roots North Carolina rated him 1 of four stars. http://www.grnc.org/remember_november/nc_senate_race.htm

Yep. Too much contradiction. I withdraw my previous remarks.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, January 15, 2010 11:53 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, 'nother thread put up to push agenda. To jump to the conclusion he's anti-gun and point to what happened as an example of "hypocracy" is pretty typical. I'm with Sig:
Quote:

....clarify your definitions. Its easy to use terms like "anti-gun", but... really, what does that mean? Does that mean he's for gun registration? Or does he really want to take guns out of people's hands?
Yup. There are so many of us lumped into "anti-gun" who might only wish for responsible gun ownership, or gun registration, etc. Easier to lump peeps into pigeonholes...

He IS, by the way, "an advocate for gun control not in favor or friendly to the 2 Amendment". I see nothing wrong in being an advocate for gun CONTROL, and havig a gun in your home in case of intruders is exactly what gun control is all about, isn't it? Or am I missing something.



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Friday, January 15, 2010 12:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Yup. There are so many of us lumped into "anti-gun" who might only wish for responsible gun ownership, or gun registration, etc. Easier to lump peeps into pigeonholes...


Bingo.

Hell, *I* am in favor of gun control - the kind Frem advocates, wherein it's the manufacturers responsibility to train you to use the weapons you're buying. And I say that as someone who owns and enjoys guns of all kinds.

Saying that being in favor of more responsible ownership is the same as being "anti-gun" is like saying that I should oppose DUI laws and laws barring you from texting while you drive, lest I be considered "anti-car".

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 15, 2010 12:43 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, I hope you all learned something. Here are three valuable steps which will make you less susceptible to running off a cliff. Please take them to heart.


First of all, verify the facts. You assumed that bc he was a Democrat he was "anti-gun". You have no idea how he actually voted, and what he stands for.

Secondly, clarify your definitions. Its easy to use terms like "anti-gun", (or anti-life, or any number of other hot-button phrases) but... really, what do you mean by that??

Thirdly, test the same set of facts in different contexts. Would you have felt different if the guy was Republican? If he was a member of the NRA? If he was a woman? A Muslim? Black? A cop? An ex-soldier?

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Friday, January 15, 2010 12:49 PM

FREMDFIRMA


I don't hold the NRA as any kind of gold standard given their own hypocrisy on the topic, being far more involved with the JFPO, and yes, manufacturer licensing in exchange for lawsuit protection is prolly the best way to go when it's proven fact that the Gov cannot be trusted with this one, as witnessed by comments of agents thereof that their intent is a total ban, and every stumbling block is one step closer to it - that's just nuts.

But again, no matter what position this guy did or didn't take, a person has a right to defend themselves and their home - it's everyone or no one, anything else is a travesty of equal rights, and the situation is bad enough with the lords and peons mentality of the damned cops as it is.

Like Fred Phelps and free speech, just cause you use it in a way that sickens me, or rail against others having the same rights you demand, is STILL no excuse for me to not respect a right I believe SHOULD be universal, it just can't work any other way.

And don't even get me started on Grand Juries, just don't... google Grand Jury + Ham Sandwich if you want more than you ever wanted to know, and yes, it's crap like that which causes me to go mad dog on our resident prosecutor every chance he gives me to do it.

Oh hell with it: HERE.
http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/freeform/grandjuryreform?opendocument

-F

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Friday, January 15, 2010 7:20 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Posted by PN:


Can't shoot somebody in your yard who is not attacking you. Sounds like this senator never took a handgun carry class.



You really have never been to Texas, have you?

We have it written into law that you can shoot someone who's doing something as simple as petty vandalism if you want to. No kidding. Spray painting graffiti on your fence? You can kill 'em for that.

If someone is breaking into your car and not attacking you, and you chase them on foot three blocks away from your house, you are completely within your rights to shoot them in the back even though they are unarmed. We have a court case to prove it. If someone is breaking into your neighbor's house and not attacking anybody, you are completely within your rights to shoot them in the face with a shotgun and kill them, all while talking on the phone to the 9-1-1 operator. We have a court case to prove it. :)

Not sure what the laws are in North Carolina, but in Texas it's wise to not fuck with a person's stuff.



Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 15, 2010 7:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:


Soles is a Democrat, but I can't find links to his actual anti-gun legislation...




You seem awful quick to assume that he's GOT a bunch of anti-gun legislation, despite being able to find no evidence of it.

Still odd that the NRA gives him an "A" rating in 2008, eh?


And even so, if he's against guns, does he not still have the legal right to own a gun, at least for now? Or would you take away from him the rights that he wants to take away from us, even though you're against him taking those rights away. If he's a hypocrite, then aren't you as well?

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 15, 2010 7:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
This is just partisan bullshit. Sen Soles was rated "A" by the NRA.



And Grass Roots North Carolina rated him 1 of four stars. http://www.grnc.org/remember_november/nc_senate_race.htm

Yep. Too much contradiction. I withdraw my previous remarks.

"Keep the Shiny side up"



I'm with you - I'm confused on this one. Seems awfully hard to get any kind of real picture of this cat. He's "anti-gun", according to some sources, but the NRA apparently doesn't think so. And no matter what your opinions of the NRA, they're still the 800 pound gorilla when it comes to gun rights interest groups.

Gotta do more digging, and find out more about this guy.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Friday, January 15, 2010 8:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


About all I've been able to find about the guy are comments on other blogs, which mention things like his vote in favor of the "castle doctrine" to allow lethal force and no retreat in defense of your home and property, his vote in favor of concealed carry, his vote in favor of reciprocal concealed-carry legislation across state lines, his votes in favor of sporting gun activities, etc.

Also, it would seem that the group that gave him a one-star rating gives you a zero if you don't complete and return their survey, so he could've blown them off.

There was strong evidence at votesmart.org that he's a Democrat, fairly liberal on many issues, and gets high grades for support of Democratic issues and support of the ACLU; those things alone are enough to get you branded "anti" something in neocon circles...

The more I find out about this guy, the less I know.

There ARE some worrying allegations about young men, too. If anything, the grand jury might look into some of his relationships and monetary arrangements, since it seems to be pretty accepted common knowledge that he bought a 17-year-old boy a $70,000 house and it seems he paid other young boys (13 and 15 years old, in some cases) large sums of cash. That sounds like the REAL scandal, and possibly a very messy tax fraud case.

Oh, and he's not running for reelection. Imagine that. ;)


By the way, if I were to say that SOME PEOPLE shouldn't own guns, that would likely be enough to get me branded "anti-gun" in certain circles.

This guy sounds like one weird cat, but he doesn't come across as "anti-gun", at least not from what I've seen. And time after time, on the gun-rights blogs, people have asked for any REAL evidence of him being "anti-gun" or hardcore anti-2A, and nobody has offered a scintilla of proof for any of their claims.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Saturday, January 16, 2010 5:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I should clarify my status on guns. I AM against people being able to buy multiple AK-47-type guns and guns which the NRA refuses to call anything but "sport" guns, but which in reality are only good for killing people. And I'm against that particular lobby being both so strong and so determined to fight the SLIGHTEST control of guns, however ridiculous it may be or however small it may be. I lump them with the tobacco lobby...and the healthcare lobbiests!

Our government is too run by lobbiests who will fight to the death over ANY infringement on their agenda. I'd like to see 'em all...well, use your imagination.



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Saturday, January 16, 2010 10:51 AM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
The more I find out about this guy, the less I know.

There ARE some worrying allegations about young men, too. If anything, the grand jury might look into some of his relationships and monetary arrangements, since it seems to be pretty accepted common knowledge that he bought a 17-year-old boy a $70,000 house and it seems he paid other young boys (13 and 15 years old, in some cases) large sums of cash. That sounds like the REAL scandal, and possibly a very messy tax fraud case.

Oh, and he's not running for reelection. Imagine that. ;)



'...The 17-term senator from Columbus County, who also represents Brunswick and Pender counties, survived a federal indictment in the early 1980s tied to an investigation into corruption in his home county called Colcor. In August 1983, charges of conspiracy, vote-buying and perjury were dropped for lack of evidence, then he was acquitted in federal court of aiding and abetting bribery.

Now, the State Bureau of Investigation is investigating an allegation Soles molested a 15-year-old boy. Soles has said he's confident he will be cleared. And his accuser has since recanted his statements about Soles.'

http://www.starnewsonline.com/section/topic08

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Saturday, January 16, 2010 11:23 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh it gets deeper than that, but I cannot comment on it at this time.

Patience - people talk, you know, even and especially when they're not supposed to - although in this particular instance it'd be nice if they taped their cake hole shut for just a LITTLE longer....

-F

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