Poor little turd blossom... by Niki2

... fully loaded, safety off...

What good does heckling like this do?? It only serves to polarize sides even further and paint each side as having dangerous fringe people as part of their norm. "Those liberal loonies!" Does someone seriously think they will make Rove sorry for what he's been a part of by doing this? Selfish and unthinking imho.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:32 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Of course it won't make him regret anything...Dumbya and Co. are blind and deaf to reality. But I'd rather see him heckled than adored, like Palin at her book signing.

People are gonna heckle figures like him, nothing's gonna change that. But along with others, I DO believe he and his ilk should be brought to account, and I'm all in favor of saying so out loud.

Hell, if they can heckle their representatives into being unable to talk to their constituents, this doesn't even come close to the ballpark!

Maybe it'll turn a few people off and he won't make so much money from his book...that alone would be worth it!

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:42 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

You know - at first I was put off by the heckling reports. But yes, if it's OK for people to gather in adoring throngs then heckling is only the other side of that. Either none, or both.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:46 AM

Yay Rove heckling! Boo tea parties!

Liberals are just so unable to engage in reasonable calm discussion! Let's take guns to town halls!

You're wondering why we end up going into other countries and screwing them the hell up? That's why. We're so pitted against each other we can't see that neither side is any different. We can't see what the real agendas are because we're so busy eating up whatever our side is shoving down our throats.

You know Bush and Cheney lied to take us into Iraq, so Cheney could get big bucks for Halliburton?

Hey, you hear that Obama approved a 40,000 troop surge in Afghanistan? Think there might be military contractors who'll profit from that?

(Oh, but I do hate Karl Rove. Let him get heckled, I don't care. But I can't stand the goddamn hypocrisy and back and forth from both sides)

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:56 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oh, Byte, I wish you guys would knock off the generalizations, it's boring and absurd.

To me, there is a huge difference between heckling someone who deserves it (are you DEFENDING Rove???) at a book signing--from which he makes money--and being so disruptive at a meeting where REAL constituents want to listen and ask questions on things that affect their lives! Were it the reverse, I'd be against liberals at tea parties and in favor of heckling the Dem politician.

If you were to think about it a minute, you'd realize that these divides exist in every fucking country on earth (and actually, our politicians are a lot better behaved than say those in Japan!). It's not just "US", and it works to avoid agendas for all politicians...that makes us no better or worse than anyone else. Politics and religion: two topics that get people all head up better than any other topics out there. You wanna change that? Change humans!

Of COURSE I hate the contractors, and am as furious that they're still used as any right-winger--or MORE, given they were cheerfully used during Dumbya's eight years! I've said so often enough that you should know better, if you could get your head out of your obsession with running down politics at every opportunity. It's a shame; I respect you on many levels, but on this one, you're as bad as anyone else, lumping people into generalizations and going after them.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:57 AM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Of course it won't make him regret anything...Dumbya and Co. are blind and deaf to reality. But I'd rather see him heckled than adored, like Palin at her book signing.

People are gonna heckle figures like him, nothing's gonna change that. But along with others, I DO believe he and his ilk should be brought to account, and I'm all in favor of saying so out loud.

Hell, if they can heckle their representatives into being unable to talk to their constituents, this doesn't even come close to the ballpark!

Maybe it'll turn a few people off and he won't make so much money from his book...that alone would be worth it!

That's the short term view and it just means that we'll keep being divided longer and longer.

Byte's right - not much difference.

How about Liberals set an EXAMPLE and INSPIRE better behaviour instead of matching the same actions they don't like from the other side? Heckling Sarah Palin? Again, what for? Don't you think that just strengthens her/their resolve to use more gun references and be even "edgier" and raise their level of spite?

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:11 AM

Am I defending Rove. Seriously?

And you're all like, OMG enough with the generalizations! Yet, when you come back at me, what've you done? Lumped me in with the enemy. Assuming I'm defending Karl Rove.

There is no difference between people heckling Karl Rove, shouting him down and refusing to let him get any word in to his supporters, and people heckling some corrupt goddamn democrat in a townhall meeting while he's trying to talk to his supporters. None. Rove is corrupt, and a bastard, and deserves it, the democrat is corrupt, and a bastard, and deserves it. At the same time, you have real constituents who also want to hear what someone who represents them has to say.

You think maybe these people on the right, listening to Rove, you think maybe that's not meaningful to them? They paid forty dollars. You think they're not going to hear him talk about policies hes implemented, and maybe strategies that the Republican party is going to take? But no, these constituents aren't "REAL." Why? Because they're a right wing minority?

Say I'm generalizing. I don't care. I think what I'm saying is valid, and until you bristled at me just now, no one was listening. I thank you at least for that.

Let them heckle, let them protest, and on the other side, let them talk. They all have that right. But there's this bizarre thinking that it's appropriate in some places and on one side, and not the other. That's what I'm commenting on here. And it's that kind of not seeing the other side, not putting yourself in the other person's shoes, that's what's dividing the country so bad. Then we all seem to wonder why. It's because both parties are playing EVERYONE against each other.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Of course it won't make him regret anything...Dumbya and Co. are blind and deaf to reality. But I'd rather see him heckled than adored, like Palin at her book signing.

People are gonna heckle figures like him, nothing's gonna change that. But along with others, I DO believe he and his ilk should be brought to account, and I'm all in favor of saying so out loud.

Hell, if they can heckle their representatives into being unable to talk to their constituents, this doesn't even come close to the ballpark!

Maybe it'll turn a few people off and he won't make so much money from his book...that alone would be worth it!

That's the short term view and it just means that we'll keep being divided longer and longer.

Byte's right - not much difference.

How about Liberals set an EXAMPLE and INSPIRE better behaviour instead of matching the same actions they don't like from the other side? Heckling Sarah Palin? Again, what for? Don't you think that just strengthens her/their resolve to use more gun references and be even "edgier" and raise their level of spite?

Yes, exactly. Thank you Pizmo.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

You know Bush and Cheney lied to take us into Iraq, so Cheney could get big bucks for Halliburton?

Hey, you hear that Obama approved a 40,000 troop surge in Afghanistan? Think there might be military contractors who'll profit from that?

False equivalence, unless Biden was president of one of those contracting companies.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

How about Liberals set an EXAMPLE and INSPIRE better behaviour instead of matching the same actions they don't like from the other side? Heckling Sarah Palin? Again, what for? Don't you think that just strengthens her/their resolve to use more gun references and be even "edgier" and raise their level of spite?

Why? Because unchallenged lies become accepted as fact.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:30 AM

America loves a winner!

Fear, intolerance and intimidation.

Welcome to Obama's America.

Where free speech is only for those who agree w/ the regime.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:33 AM

Maybe, maybe not. Politicians do get their money from somewhere, and when they leave politics, you gotta know where they get hired. The comparison isn't as obvious, we may not have one consolidated source benefiting from the whole garbage heap for our ire and convenience, but that doesn't mean it's a false analogy.

Everyone in the Bush administration is guilty. And, since the Obama administration is also using military contractors, well, I made an inference. Now, I would probably have to prove that the Obama administration selected contractors that they have close ties with, and I made another assumption: this is politics. It's reasonably likely.

EDIT: Also. >_> <_< *Cough* ('.')> @ AURaptor 4 function

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:37 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Byte

I'm not sure what your point is. If people 'deserve' to be heckled as you say, than why should they not be ?

As for me (and I can't speak for anyone else) all I was trying to say is that everyone should hew to the same rules. If tea-baggers shout-down others why should the same not be done in return ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:39 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"How about Liberals set an EXAMPLE and INSPIRE better behaviour ..."

Because we already have an example that it doesn't work. It doesn't matter how bipartisan you try to be if you are the only one who is trying.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Fear, intolerance and intimidation.

Welcome to Obama's America.

Yet still not as bad as Bush's America.

Quote:
Where free speech is only for those who agree w/ the regime.

Which you were more than happy with when your hero was in office. Suck it up.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:48 AM

Quote:
than why should they not be ?

I know it doesn't make sense, but my point isn't that one group is shouting at another, or one group should or shouldn't be harassed, my point is both groups are doing it to each other. And they don't even seem to realize.

I fully support heckling from either side, but I think it's pointless to be indignant about it when it happens to you if you do it. And that's a general you, not you in particular.

The best case scenario is, of course, no heckling, but that would require both sides to respect each other, which large numbers on both sides seem unable to do. Largely in part again due to rhetoric and manipulation, i.e. "the other side is evil /greedy (conservatives) /socialist (liberals)."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:06 AM

MINCINGBEAST

heckling is healthy, and natural.

and in fact, our current political climate isn't so bad. at no time in our mythical past has civil discourse ever been thoughtful, intelligent, or adult. what you are seeing is the way things have always been done in America: hysterics, invective, and treating difference as some sort of profound moral crusade.

that said, karl rove is a doughy little bastard that has come to symbolize the banality of evil.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:16 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"... my point is both groups are doing it to each other. And they don't even seem to realize."

I suspect it is VERY intentional from the liberal side, as this is a departure from the usual behavior.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:16 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Fear, intolerance and intimidation.

Welcome to Obama's America.

Yet still not as bad as Bush's America.

Which high profile Leftists was ever shouted down, had pies thrown in their faces, or was denied the ability to speak to a crowd ?

Quote:

Quote:
Where free speech is only for those who agree w/ the regime.

Which you were more than happy with when your hero was in office. Suck it up.

Was there any great attempt by the Right to clamp down on Left wing opposition or speech there of ? Hell no. And what's worse, there was next to no response by the White House when the a-holes on the Left astro turfed up any phony marches or demonstrations.

But the rest of America will remember how the Left treated anyone who disagreed w/ them. And then you'll have to " suck it up ", and like it.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:17 AM

Quote:
heckling is healthy, and natural.

and in fact, our current political climate isn't so bad. at no time in our mythical past has civil discourse ever been thoughtful, intelligent, or adult. what you are seeing is the way things have always been done in America: hysterics, invective, and treating difference as some sort of profound moral crusade.

that said, karl rove is a doughy little bastard that has come to symbolize the banality of evil.

I can drink to that.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I don't see any reason for liberals to "set an example" because right-wing nut-jobs simply WILL NOT LEARN FROM IT.

In fact, liberal tolerance puzzles the right wing, which assumes that anyone who doesn't lash back vigrously must be "weak", and thus tends promote bad behavior on the right. I've proved this to myself with Wulf several times: It's not until I smack him across the nose with a rolled-up newspaper that he gets the idea that he MIGHT have done something wrong! You have to talk in a language the other person understands and (for the right wing) that tends to be violence, punishment, fear and hyperbole.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:21 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

To begin with, I wasn't "bristling", it was kind of like a "sigh...". I didn't say anything angry like I have to some of the more nasty people would have, I tried deliberately to say "it would be nice..." The problem with written communication; I was griping, since I get sick of seeing so many here generalize everything about "liberals" while pointing it at me, and it would be nice if that wasn't the case.

As far as bristling and attacking, I think you did a pretty good job of that. I made one remark, and you've come out firing all guns.

Of course I wasn't saying you were defending Rove...it was a rhetorical question. If anything, I was making the point that I think Rove is un-defendable, whereas I think being able to listen to and ask questions of the representative people voted into office is a different matter.

I missed that they'd paid $40, I thought it was just a book signing. If they paid to hear him speak, heckling is wrong. I'm afraid I AM biased, however, where Rove is concerned and equating him making money off his lies with my other example.

I don't believe anything will ever change in politics by hoping one side will be respectful when the other side won't. Mob mentality; HUMAN mentality, as I said.

I do think the Dems have been far less vitriolic in how they speak of the other side, and the Repubs have pretty much made themselves irrelevant by their policy of "no" to EVERYTHING, even things they believe in, JUST to stop anything being done. By now the anger is so heated on either side that both are out of control.

A lot of people I know have been pretty angry that the Dems haven't "grown balls" and fought back. I don't think that would be the case so much if behavior had been the same on both sides. I agree with Rue in that I think it's quite deliberate NOW, but I think it was equally deiberately started and encouraged by the other side all along (remember the "instructions" to tea partiers?).

I would appreciate examples of the visceral terms used by the Repubs on the Dem side. They've disagreed, but all along I haven't heard the continued and repeated hateful terms and accusations that I've heard from the Repubs. Not one example, but examples of the constant repetition of the terms you know I'm speaking of. In that respect, unequal; in hecking, getting pretty damned equal.

Yes, of course it would be great if all of us could stop dividing one another and work together and be respectful. But I don't see it happening, and I HAVE seen an effort, at least, on the part of the Dems to avoid the kind of nasty buzz words I've heard constantly on the right. In that respect, I feel it's overbalanced in one direction.

I agree with Mincing to a point, but again I say that our situation isn't nearly as bad as some other countries, and point to the physical violence in Japan as one example. It's not all about "America sucks", it's about PEOPLE and politics.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:25 AM

Okay, I didn't try to address this directly because you were making the point obvious, but seriously, AU. The left can and will come up with a number of free speech and privacy impingement that occurred during the Bush administration. You may not grant those instances as valid for whatever reason, but that doesn't make it any less real to how the liberals perceived how they were treated.

It's not only the left treating the right like crap, it's both sides treating each other like crap. You call it an Obama America, with fear, intolerance, and oppression, sorry man, but that's how the political scene has been for YEARS, possibly since the very first parties in the 1780s.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:26 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I missed that they'd paid $40 ..."

Then I'm assuming the hecklers did as well. Doesn't that 'give' them the 'right' to have their say, if we are going to use that metric ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:30 AM

MINCINGBEAST

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
You call it an Obama America, with fear, intolerance, and oppression, sorry man, but that's how the political scene has been for YEARS, possibly since the very first parties in the 1780s.

This. If anything, our political discourse is more dignified now than at any point in our past. Do people have no memory or sense of history? Yes.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:30 AM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"How about Liberals set an EXAMPLE and INSPIRE better behaviour ..."

Because we already have an example that it doesn't work. It doesn't matter how bipartisan you try to be if you are the only one who is trying.

Then that's what you encourage the other side to do - all the finger pointing is meaningless since booth sides can make up anything because "it's what the other side is doing." Seems kind of pointless doesn't it? So Dems should learn how to lie better?

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:32 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I don't see any reason for liberals to "set an example" because right-wing nut-jobs simply WILL NOT LEARN FROM IT.

In fact, liberal tolerance puzzles the right wing, which assumes that anyone who doesn't lash back vigrously must be "weak", and thus tends promote bad behavior on the right. I've proved this to myself with Wulf several times: It's not until I smack him across the nose with a rolled-up newspaper that he gets the idea that he MIGHT have done something wrong! You have to talk in a language the other person understands and (for the right wing) that tends to be violence, punishment, fear and hyperbole.

That's the biggest load of crap imaginable. It's the LEFT which lacks any concept of self control, tolerance and respect.

All those Town Hall meetings last year? Yeah, there was some shouting, and folks on the Right and middle were upset, even animated. But they were all peaceful, until a few rare cases where the thugs from the Left intervened. That's the only time anything got physical, or truly disruptive.

More Leftist indifference .....

( Rep Sheila Jackson Lee, talking on her cell phone, right in the middle of a town hall meeting, where a constituent was trying to talk to her about the issues. )

and " tolerance " ....

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:34 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

So dems should learn to lie better ? Maybe it would help. The OTHER thing dems should do is every time a republican lies take flip-flops and chant loudly, or yell out YOU LIE !, or spew some BC into the media like DEATH PANELS ! Or have liberal Supreme Court justices mouth derogatory statements during the next republican state of the union, or maybe become 'the party of no'.

That would be fair.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:38 AM

Niki... I appreciate your trying to talk to me about this. The tone of my last post to you was a bit intense, I guess it's because I misinterpreted you as being frustrated or annoyed.

It's just... When someone says something like this:

Quote:
I don't believe anything will ever change in politics by hoping one side will be respectful when the other side won't. Mob mentality; HUMAN mentality, as I said.

After saying something like this...

Quote:
I missed that they'd paid $40, I thought it was just a book signing. If they paid to hear him speak, heckling is wrong.

And they're still talking about the side that DIDN'T DO the heckling in this particular instance as being mob like... Doesn't compute. The conclusion I draw is that both groups are mob-like at times, and I can't understand the logic that goes into dismissing or justifying the behaviour of one side.

Why is it difficult to accept that both sides heckle and insult? I recall David Letterman making tasteless jokes about Sarah Palin's daughters, I recall something about pigs and lipstick, I see people get called Nazi just because they happen to be on one side or the either. I remember something about insinuations that Obama is a Muslim terrorist, and no discouragement to a crowd that was chanting for his death. I see people excusing their own side, and not excusing the other. "I hate that Sarah Palin!" "I hate that Obama!" clash clash clash clash bash clash clang crash whack bang bang BOOM. It's like one of those old Looney Tunes, only it's tragic and sad and frustrating.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Fear, intolerance and intimidation.

Welcome to Obama's America.

Yet still not as bad as Bush's America.

Which high profile Leftists was ever shouted down, had pies thrown in their faces, or was denied the ability to speak to a crowd ?

Quote:

Quote:
Where free speech is only for those who agree w/ the regime.

Which you were more than happy with when your hero was in office. Suck it up.

Was there any great attempt by the Right to clamp down on Left wing opposition or speech there of ? Hell no. And what's worse, there was next to no response by the White House when the a-holes on the Left astro turfed up any phony marches or demonstrations.

But the rest of America will remember how the Left treated anyone who disagreed w/ them. And then you'll have to " suck it up ", and like it.

What freakin planet you live on, kid?

There was plenty of righties shouting down and attempting to shut up those on the left. The term "unAmerican" was thrown at anyone who disagreed with Dubya.

You're dishonesty is staggering. Though I'd expect no less from you,.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:38 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So dems should learn to lie better ? Maybe it would help. The OTHER thing dems should do is every time a republican lies take flip-flops and chant loudly, or yell out YOU LIE !, or spew some BC into the media like DEATH PANELS !

That would be fair.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

Dems can't learn to lie any better.

They're already the best at lying.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:41 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Did something irrelevant just get posted by a meaningless nobody ?

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:43 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
What freakin planet you live on, kid?

There was plenty of righties shouting down and attempting to shut up those on the left. The term "unAmerican" was thrown at anyone who disagreed with Dubya.

First, it was un-American, to promote the failure of our mission, and the defeat of our troops. Even more so, ( if humanly possible ) because the Dems were saying the EXACT same things about stopping Saddam up until W landed on the air craft carrier Abe Lincoln, and then the Dems decidced they had to " pivot " and start spreading that hate.

Also, no one ever denied the Dems to spew their irrational hatred. Hell yes, we disagreed w/ you on the Left, but no one shouted you down, physically kept you from speaking or assaulted you when saying as such.

Quote:

You're dishonesty is staggering. Though I'd expect no less from you,.

There is none from me, nor can you even state your case w/ any facts. Just more empty hyperbole and blather.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:01 PM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So dems should learn to lie better ? Maybe it would help. The OTHER thing dems should do is every time a republican lies take flip-flops and chant loudly, or yell out YOU LIE !, or spew some BC into the media like DEATH PANELS ! Or have liberal Supreme Court justices mouth derogatory statements during the next republican state of the union, or maybe become 'the party of no'.

That would be fair.

Might be fair but why do it if it hurts your cause? You think the guy who yelled "you lie" did more good or bad for Obama? I thought he helped Obama. He showed the thuggish side of the current republican party. It's not something we can count but I think it's very real that these events, people record them, they see who's doing what and how they're behaving and they add up. This fits perfectly with the common sentiment "Politicians? I don't trust any of them!"
There's a stalemate for popular favor between the parties because both sides are equally hated. That's funny.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Doesn't hurt the cause, it helps. The direct counterpart to "YOU LIE" Joe Wilson is Alan Grayson, who said "The Republican Health Care Plan: Die Quickly."

It rallied the left.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 2:19 AM

RIVERLOVE

Rove was dubbed "The Architect" by his adoring Republican friends. He got Bush elected twice, and he helped make policy in the White House. For the last year or so, he's been a frequent guest on Fox News shows, and we've really had for the first time a chance to hear him speak on a variety of topics. I've listened to him many times on many subjects. He strikes me as a smart man, a man gifted with statistical, political, and historical knowledge. He also comes across as a decent fellow. BUT, he mainly comes across as an arrogant fool with zero common sense. He now says his biggest regret during his 6+ years in the Bush admin. was his failure to go out and defend Bush against the left-wing slanted media lies and distortions. He says they decided back then not to engage in that debate, because supoposedly they were so busy running the wars and all. That's a handy excuse now, but how come someone so smart didn't see it back then? Even after the 2006 mid-terms they still didn't get it. Every lie, every distortion, every political and cultural bullet that was shot at Bush needed to be addressed and challenged, but they remained silent and allowed the rhetoric to become fact, at least fact in the majority of Americans' minds. Obama is schooling Rove on the new politics. Obama lets nothing slide, and he fights back on every story or even every innuendo of a story. Much as I despise his politics, I greatly admire his grit and guts. So if old Rove wants to write a book to explain and rationalize what they failed to explain and rationalize when it was important to do so, please excuse me for not getting upset at all when some folks want to scream in his face and call him to task for his past behavior. Sorry Karl, but once again you are a day late and a dollar short.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:12 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
no one ever denied the Dems to spew their irrational hatred. Hell yes, we disagreed w/ you on the Left, but no one shouted you down, physically kept you from speaking or assaulted you when saying as such.

You must be joking...or deluded. Forgotten all the protesters that were arrested for wearing anti-Bush t-shirts, taken to jail, etc.? People were not allowed to speak out during the Dumbya Administration anything like they are now; to say so is to either lie outright or have had blinders on!

Quote:
The conclusion I draw is that both groups are mob-like at times, and I can't understand the logic that goes into dismissing or justifying the behaviour of one side.

I don't think I "justified" either side; what I was trying to say was that, from all I've heard kover the past two years, the right has been far more given to buzz words and hate-inspiring speeches than the left.

Any group epitomes mob mentality when it comes to politics. Get five people together who think alike, and they encourage one another to be more intense and less intelligent in their protest. Well, except in some cases anti-war protesters, but even among them, you'll find kooks who encourage things to get worse.

I did think if people paid, they should be allowed to enjoy what they came for. I don't think having paid to get in excuses disrupting (especially given they paid to get in specifically TO cause disruption), any more than I believe bussing people in to disrupt town halls is excusable, or sending out instructions on how TO disrupt.

The rhetoric on the right has always been visceral and fear-inducing; anyone who ignores that does so at their peril. It's a well-known, time-honored tactic, and I still challenge anyone to show anything like an equal number of hate-filled speeches by the left. I don't mean show one or two, but prove there was an EQUAL number, or anything like it, of trigger words that incite hate. Even during the Dumbya years, the politicians on the left didn't stir things up the way the right has now.

I don't agree about Dems learning to lie; one side doing it doesn't excuse the other. And I wish rhetoric could be more reality based, but wishing doesn't do nuttin', and nuttin' is gonna change the fact that when it comes to politics or religion, it's exceedingly easy to stir people up, if you want to. It's worked for them for decades, and continues to do so, tho' from what I see, it's working less well--in part I THINK because they've gone so far overboard that they've lost credibility with the thinking people on their side.

David Letterman is a TV personality, not a politician. You can counter his ill-chosen "joke" with tons of SERIOUS overblown statements by FauxNews which occur daily. And lipstick on a pig was first said by McCain in September 2008--referring to the Clinton campaign, so long before Obama used it:

and again:

He wasn't talking about Palin anyway, tho' it was claimed and used as such by the right. Even Huckabee saw it for what it really was:

I'm talking about "terrorist", "pals around with terrorists", "armageddon", "facist", "nazi" and on and on and on. The two bear no resemblance, even if they were valid.

I just don't get how it can be viewed as equal on both sides. The things Cheney says are so far out of this world as to be incredible; politicians in the House and Senate have been constantly given to fear tactics and saying things I don't hear the equal of on the right at ALL. IF the Repubs spoke the same way as the Dems, it would be far less contentious, in my opinion.

Nonetheless, I FULLY agree

Quote:
it's tragic and sad and frustrating

I just realize it's the way it's always been and always will be; people rarely use their heads when it comes to politics and religion, especially when in a group of people who agree with them. I wasn't justifying it, what I was trying to do is put it in perspective. It's more, and much worse, on the right, period.

I agree, Sig, that

Quote:
The Republican Health Care Plan: Die Quickly.

Doesn't make it right, but Republicans in House and Senate were saying "death panels" and "they want grandma to die" LONG before Grayson spoke up. I enjoyed him standing up and speaking his piece because it's the FIRST time I heard a Dem fight back.

My contention that the right has used hate-inspiring and fear-inspiring rhetoric will not change unless someone can show me specific examples of the left using such anything like AS OFTEN as the right, or pretty much at all examples of politicians in government doing it.

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:21 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Just more empty hyperbole and blather.

LOL, you are so full of shit...

Just too funny.

BTW AU, you're green, and 2 ft. tall, this is true because, like you, I SAY so.

LOL!!!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Also, no one ever denied the Dems to spew their irrational hatred. Hell yes, we disagreed w/ you on the Left, but no one shouted you down, physically kept you from speaking or assaulted you when saying as such.

Such a fuckin' liar. Not even worth listening too. Not that this is news.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 12:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I think all politicians SHOULD be heckled, mercilessly.

Hell, I am completely in favor of adding a jesters position to Congress, nominated from the minority party for the express purpose of mocking and needling, while speaking truth to power, and immune to any form of censure or prosecution whatever.

Ridicule is a very potent political force, and would serve as a useful check and balance on party power and politics.

-Frem

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 4:02 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ooo, I LIKE it Frem! Only I think in fairness it should be a jester for each party. Then we'd get double the entertainment value!

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 4:06 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Such a fuckin' liar. Not even worth listening too. Not that this is news.

What you're good at, calling folks who disagree with you " liars "

What you SUCK at, offering any evidence to back up your claims.

Not that this is news, of course.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 4:08 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

It's raining...hard...but I could have sworn I heard something on the breeze nonetheless, and it made me laugh...was it just me?

"I'm just right. Kinda like the sun rising in the east and the world being round...its not a need its just the way it is." The Delusional "Hero", 3/1/10

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 4:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Such a fuckin' liar. Not even worth listening too. Not that this is news.

What you're good at, calling folks who disagree with you " liars "

What you SUCK at, offering any evidence to back up your claims.

Not that this news, of course.

It not?

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 4:16 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:It's raining...hard...but I could have sworn I heard something on the breeze nonetheless, and it made me laugh...was it just me?

Quote:
It not?

This is what passes for 'rational', 'mature' and 'sensible' thought from the Left, here at FFF.Net.

Wow.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Thursday, April 1, 2010 7:46 AM