Being Bad on Purpose by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Being Bad on Purpose

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:56
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1900
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, May 17, 2010 3:31 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I have just finished reading an article on CNN that resonated with me. It is about a cartoonist who depicted Muhammad and was attacked. This is no longer a new or shocking theme. I remember years ago when I first heard of a cartoonist being threatened with death after depicting Muhammad, I was particularly incensed. Despite having nothing against Islam or Muhammad, I dug up a digital image of an Islamic painting of the prophet. (He used to be depicted without outrage, back when Islam was a younger religion.) I then posted the image to my blog. I wrote a long rant about free speech, and capped the entry with an advertisement for a fictional product. Muhammad Urinal Cakes.

I know this probably seems out of character for me, as I try to avoid using inflammatory dialogue most of the time. I try to avoid insulting (most) people most of the time. I'm not perfect. I slip. I fall. I'm not the man I want to be. The incendiary image and fictional product was much more along the line of what Pirate does, and thinking about that still makes me squirm inside. I don't think it was wrong, though.

I think that this whole violence against people who insult Islam thing has got to stop. I think the best way we can stop it is by making things like depicting Muhammad a routine matter. If portraits of the prophet are everywhere, then it becomes a pointless endeavor to threaten people for putting them up. I will try to do my part and resurrect my blog, posting Muhammad again soon. I figure I should keep depicting Muhammad until the whole violence/threatening bit dies down. Either that, or until the loud protests of legitimate Islamic organizations decry the violence of their bretheren and the attempts to smother free speech with aggression.

I just wanted to share this with you all. I know I'm thought of as calm and reasonable, but these sorts of things get me bent out of shape. I wanted you to know I'm not immune to the baser impulses of mankind.

--Anthony

P.S. http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/05/17/frum.vilks.muslim/index.html?hpt
=C2

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2010 6:43 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Draw_Mohammed_Day

Booyah.

[/sig]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2010 7:23 PM

FREMDFIRMA

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."
-H.L. Mencken.

It's the nature of bein human, Anthony.
What rooks me about it all is that Mohammed *would* have found most of this bloody hilarious, being a former bandit with a rather rough sense of humor and little respect for overbearing pompous asshats.

I mean, this is a guy who hacked off his own sleeve rather than disturb his favorite cats nap, and went off to prayer dressed like that, and if you didn't like it, so what - you peel back most of the whitewash, the guy was pretty snarky in his own way as well.

The dude would be appalled at what has been carried out in his name, given where his intentions lay - he was a radical reformist and very stalwart about human rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Medina

If I was gonna lampoon him, I'd go with a Buddy Mohammed, he'd have thought that was way cool, hisself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Christ
Collect the whole set!
(Lessee, Bahá'u'lláh, That mormon guy, we could start a whole product line, couldn't we?)

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2010 8:54 PM

DMAANLILEILTT

Counterpoint: Islam as a religion historically was only formed in the 7th century meaning that it's about 1300 years old. Now if you went back to when Christianity was 1300 years old, you would be killed for making a depiction of Jesus that didn't paint him in a COMPLETELY sacred light. That's not to say that what the angry, angry fundies are doing is ok, just that every culture has gone through that kind of society.

Also, the harder you try to pull someone to have your point of view, the harder they'll pull away; case in point: the American Civil War.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, May 17, 2010 9:25 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I'd go with a Buddy Mohammed

You got it, Frem

[/sig]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 4:21 AM

BYTEMITE

Nah, Joseph Smith was kind of a jerk, really. And then Brigham Young got super paranoid after several years of having to cope with Federal harrassment and petty inter-marriage politics (thus resulting in the Mountain Meadows Massacre). Neither of them are good Buddy-Religious-Figure material.

The Mormons believe in a Buddy-Figure-Version-Christ anyway, so that's good enough.

I think Jesus would have loved Buddy-Jesus, he was kind of a snarker too, rolling his eyes about the apostles at times and such and trying to tell them to stop being intolerant assholes. Not that it helped much.

It's awesome Mohammed would've liked that too. And as I recall, the Buddha had a sense of humour at times.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:11 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Thanks for the help. I have updated my blog. I enjoyed Buddy Muhammad.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

"You can lose a quark you don't girth." -Dreamtrove's words to live by, translated by Ipad

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 6:24 AM

DREAMTROVE

The pro conflict elements of religions stir stuff like this up. It is dredged out of the deep recesses of out of use dogma, and pulled for some purpose. Here the goal is to limit free speech.

This si undoubtedly not the result of a widespread concern among the Muslim masses, but a manipulation by the leadership. The way to reverse it is by caving to their demands briefly in a way that hurts them, until they cry uncle.

For instance, they want tl limit free speech. Make something and call it the mohammeds image protection act or something like that, and design it so that it basically results in no imam getting any press coverage at all. Then give them the option to reverse it, and they will.

ETA Yeah, Mohammed would not have had an issue with it, he was pretty straightforward about his past. And yeah, he'd probably get a kick out of it, and sure, he'd be angry with a bunch of people, so wouldn't Jesus. So go figure. Actually, try picking the two of them in a gay marriage and see which group gets angrier. I Really have no idd a, but I'm starting to think either way that it's a really bad idea.... Hmm

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 7:41 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
It's awesome Mohammed would've liked that too. And as I recall, the Buddha had a sense of humour at times.

Oh hell yes, he thought it a veritable knee-slapper that anyone would consider him a prophet, much less think he was wise - but he was more of the stop-venerating-me-you-idiots school of thought.

I dunno if he did it, he prolly did, but one thing I would do in response to the attempted hero-worship attitude of some of the rescuees was deliberately do something appalling, immoral or offensive and then have someone else quietly suggest they find a better role model, or better yet, become one themselves.

I highly suspect he pulled many of the same tricks, it was kind of his nature to do so, since he managed to get a certain skepticism codified into the beliefs that followed him, The Kalama Sutta - and the idea that you should never accept anything unquestioningly, which acts as a check against fanaticism, although such does still occur, just not to the same degree.

-F

ETA: I am SO stealing that Buddy Mohammed pic!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:36 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
And as I recall, the Buddha had a sense of humour at times.

Many depictions of the Buddha figure are pretty much 'Buddy Buddha' already, yeah.

Spirit of generosity and laughter.

[/sig]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 9:56 AM

BYTEMITE

If that's the chubby Buddha (can't see the picture), that's not really THE Buddha. That's a Chinese buddhist monk. Buddha believed in feeding the soul, not the body, and the corpulence of the monk you see so commonly depicted is actually kind of against the teachings about material overindulgence.

Buddha is always thin and serene. And ageless (young), because he left either his mortality or mortal body behind (teaching his disciples as an incorporeal spirit), depending on the interpretation, when he achieved Nirvana.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budai

Quote:
Amongst Westerners new to Buddhism, Budai is often confused with the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama. However, the two are visually very distinct. Gautama is commonly depicted as being tall and slender in appearance (although since no images of him from his lifetime exist, this depiction of him is unverifiable and possibly idealized); Budai is short and overweight. (Buddha means "one who has achieved a state of perfect enlightenment" and there are several people who have been given the title.)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:28 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I referred to it as 'a depiction' and 'spirit of generosity' for a reason. The girth, laughing face, and large earlobes are all symbolic. Generous, kind, happy, wise. Buddha itself means 'awakened one' and doesn't necessarily refer to Gautama Siddhartha or any one specific person.
With due respect, I was raised by Buddhists. I know what the different depictions represent.

[/sig]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:43 AM

BYTEMITE

I didn't know if you knew, it's a common assumption in the West that Budai and the original Buddha are the same. Admittedly there are layers I don't understand, like whether all bodhisvattas/Buddhas are considered reincarnations of the first, or whether Budai is speculated to be a reincarnation, and etc.

By your statement... Yes? He is considered an incarnation of an aspect of The Buddha?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:46 AM

MINCINGBEAST

I like Frem's take on Mo', whose name I take in vain, and whose face I draw on cocktail napkins. By contemporary standards, a barbarian, but in context of his time, not a bad dude. And he liked cats, meaning that were he with us today, he would probably be down for lolcats. Also, I recommend GBS' take on Mo', too.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:53 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Draw_Mohammed_Day

Booyah.

Oh, that's nice. I would like to see a:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Where_A_Mohammed_Mask_Day

That would be a transformative day.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:05 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I would say less incarnation and more symbol. It is a symbol of certain aspects of the Buddha nature.
The first depictions of Buddha were all emptiness; footprints that had been left behind, or a space he may have once sat it. This symbolized leaving behind the human existence of samsara. The Awakened One had moved on, no longer troubled by this plane or its suffering. As the religion drew more attention and worshipers, more traditional idols were made for them to focus on, many of the slender, serene Indian prince Gautama that you refer to. Others were made of the Tara, the first woman to reach Buddhahood, or become awakened. Some idols were made of various bodhisattvas, who were those who had reached enlightenment, but would not move on from this plane until everyone could. They remain here as teachers until all humanity has broken free of samsara. Those are the ones who are considered to be reincarnations. His Holiness the Dalai Lama is a bodhisattva. Tenzin Gyatso, the current Dalai Lama, is the fourteenth incarnation. He is not a reincarnation of Gautama Siddhartha, often considered the original Buddha and the inspiration for the religion. Gautama Siddhartha, as far as I know, is not thought to have any reincarnations, having transcended to Paradise.
One of the beautiful things about the religion is that there is more than one awakened soul, more than one sacred spirit, more than one teacher on the Path and no set intermediary between the 'common folk' and 'the holy' because indeed anyone can Awaken.
Hm. I wasn't expecting to give any sermons today. Did I answer your question?

[/sig]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:16 AM

BYTEMITE

BTW, I do like your Buddy Mohammed.

I was doing some looking into this, and it turns out Muslims actually HAVE drawn The Prophet in the past. Like so:

I'm not sure which one he is, I suspect the one clasping the other's shoulder.

Anyway. So I guess all of this is kind of like England, when Oliver Cromwell took over Parliament and defaced statues in churches because of his Puritanism.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:22 AM

BYTEMITE

You did. :) Thanks. I try to read about Buddhism sometimes, because I watch Firefly, and when I write stories where Buddhism comes up I want to try to be accurate. I may not believe in any religion, but I try to be respectful, when I can. And the way some Buddhist variations have Buddhas that represent things, and how it all ties together, that's something I've never been fully clear on.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:42 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Buddhism can be complex. There can also be some confusion surrounding Taoism and Zen practices, which are often related to Buddhism, but are only loosely connected, if at all. They are all more internal religions, but approach it in different ways. I'm glad to clarify, where I can

Yeah, there seem to be a few visual depictions of Muhammad. I drew my inspiration for 'Shopping the Buddy from this one:

Which appeared next to the following text:
Islam's prophet Muhammad ibn Abd Allah. Representations of the Prophet are well known from early on[...] While some Muslims hold beliefs that it is against Islam to make images of the Prophet, others have more relaxed attitudes, and among Shia Muslims, such pictures are common, and much liked.

According to Iranian informants interviewed by Ingvild Flaskerud, such portraits should not be considered "real" portraits of the prophet Muhammad. The artists make these images on the basis of conventional ideas of the character of those personages depicted, in the same way it has been done with Biblical figures in European art.

The text below the image is the shahada or Profession of faith: "There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is His messenger."

[/sig]

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:56 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yes Mince, he probably would have thought LOLcats to be downright hilarious.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE