Liberals aren't racist, no indeed... by piratenews

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quotes from 1929, 1921, 1933??? Didn't need to read further than that. Waste of time.

Aside from which, none of that has anything to do with Liberals as a whole; I posted specific things said by HEADS of the Tea Party movement, which reflects the Tea Party movement itself; you posted things about Planned Parenthood, which reflects nothing but Planned Parenthood, not Liberals.

Title accusation

No proof shown.

Hippie Operative Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
signing off

To our President: “Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President” ...Raptor

To Anthony, unquestionably the most civil person on this forum: “Go fuck yourself. On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. ...Raptor

To Frem: “You miserable piece of shit.” ...Raptor

To Niki: “My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike.....Well, it's true......if you had a soul.” ...Raptor

...Remember, remember, the ugliest member...

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Friday, June 4, 2010 9:05 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Uh-huh....

Pretty pink shades you are wearing there, Nix.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 9:12 AM

MINCINGBEAST

Aw gee guys, liberals don't hate minorities. They only hate unborn babies, and your freedoms. And also your mom. Apple pie, too.

However, when white folk are minorities (shall be soon!) then liberals will hate minorities.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 9:53 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Dr Ron Paul MD OBGYN delivered 4,000 babies, with zero abortions. Operative Nikovich12, how many of your babies and grandbabies did you kill?

World dictators at Bilderburg Global Government is meeting in secret this week, with 100% censorship blackout by the multinational "news" cartel, to order Dictator Saddam Hussein Obama Bin Laden Soetoro Black Knight of the British Empire to nuke Iran and genocide millions, which is a tiny fraction of the genocide carried out and planned for USA.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=bilderburg+2010&aq=f&aqi
=g-s1g-sx9&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

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Friday, June 4, 2010 10:34 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Where's a sockpuppet when you need one?

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Friday, June 4, 2010 10:47 AM

well... What's the name of that one crazy planned parenthood/abortion/eugenics lady from ye old times? Was it Margaret Sanger?

Anyway, whatever her name was, um, yeah. There's some FREAKY people out there, and some of them do back abortion.

I'm not quite convinced that its a giant conspiracy, as I consider MYSELF for equal rights for both genders, and personally I struggle both directions with the issue of abortion on an ethical level. But if you look into it, PN actually has a basis of a kernel of truth here.

Whether they're actually genociding black people, I'm not sure either. When they talk about more planned parenthood offices being in poor neighborhoods, which do tend to be ethnic minority demographics... Well, it's a poor neighborhood. Abortions cost money and require insurance, as far as I'm aware. Those are two things a poor neighborhood isn't likely to have.

But it does raise a valid question: why put them there in the first place? Perceived problem of overpopulation leading to poverty? The line between whether its racial or whether its poverty becomes blurred, because there's a big demographics overlap.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 11:04 AM

John,

Great post, an interesting read.

Byte

John's point here is that they created abortion, and they did it for eugenics. He's right of course. Whether it's race related I'm not sure, but certainly it was initially, with planned parenthood texts like "the Negro great." as for pay, it's a graduated scale, you pay if you can, you pay more if you have morel, less if you have less. These scales are beneficial to the poor, but alas seem to surface when here's something that someone wants to give to the poor, such as abortions, or drugs. No graduated scale for houses. Maybe projects ;)

The thing is that Margret Sanger isn't a random person from the thirties, she's really the godmother of the whole ZPG movement which is pretty well anchored in the american left. Darling of the new left, Gail Collins, was singing her praises just a couple weeks ago.

But it's not just the left. Neocons are also down with eugenics. I was just reading about the eugenics foundation funding the drafting of the Arizona immigration law. Of course, the neocons themselves are admitted socialists.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 11:34 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"John's point here is that they created abortion"

Hello,

Abortion was created by these folk in the same way that they invented the internet.

What they did do was take the process mainstream as part of a Eugenics program.

A Eugenics program that, to my knowledge, was abandoned in the wake of WWII. By the time the 60's rolled around, Eugenics was becoming a dirty concept. In 1973, when abortion rights were asserted, you couldn't have filled a thimble with the amount of talk the justices and lawyers did on 'Eugenics.'

I don't know anyone who has ever expressed 'eugenics' as one of their reasons for backing abortion rights. I haven't even seen anyone in the media talk about Eugenics outside of Nazi documentaries, Star Trek, and X-man comics. And, I suppose, Pirate's 'news.'

When my second son's head was inflating like a water-filled balloon, and his brain was pressed into a thin paste, I don't remember 'eugenics' coming up in my discussions with the doctor. Health and welfare of the mother were discussed, along with the consequences of going to term with a baby who would be born dead or born to die within hours or days. I use 'born' euphamistically. He'd have to be cut out of the womb due to that endlessly inflating cranium.

I'm going to guess that Renaissance women in Europe who rooted out unwanted babies had also never heard of Eugenics. They'd probably be surprised to learn that abortion was created by someone in the 20th century.

People do stuff for all kinds of reasons. No one I ever met did anything because of Eugenics.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 4, 2010 11:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Anyone whose spent 5 minutes researching the abortion movement knows it was started by racist eugenics types, who wanted to rid humanity of " undesirables " and keep minorities from breeding like rats.

** ANYONE ** who thinks the Fed Gov't has done " all it possibly can " in response the Gulf Coast oil disaster, or who thinks Obama isn't lying to us all - I have no use for you. You deserve all the animosity and any vulgar "tone" directed your way. ( Anthony , that includes you, buddy. Sorry )

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Friday, June 4, 2010 2:32 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Dreamtrove,

I supplement my earlier statement with this data. A brief history of abortion. It took less than 5 minutes to research this. Anyone who researches the history of the abortion 'movement' will learn that abortion was practiced widely long before America was a twinkle in Amerigo Vespucci's eye. If someone wants to argue that Eugenicists took an existing technology or practice and applied it to forward their dark philosophy, I agree. But to credit them with abortion or the abortion 'movement' is misleading. They participated in the 'movement' briefly and fleetingly. What preceded them also survived them. Suggesting that abortion happens because of early 20th century Eugenics personalities is like saying driver's licenses came into being because of John DeLorean.

--Anthony

Excerpts from wikipedia's "Before 5th Century" article, though feel free to perform counter-research if you don't like wikipedia:

"The first recorded evidence of induced abortion, is from the Egyptian Ebers Papyrus in 1550 BC.[3] A Chinese record documents the number of royal concubines who had abortions in China between the years 500 and 515 BC.[4] According to Chinese folklore, the legendary Emperor Shennong prescribed the use of mercury to induce abortions nearly 5000 years ago.[5] Many of the methods employed in early and primitive cultures were non-surgical. Physical activities like strenuous labor, climbing, paddling, weightlifting, or diving were a common technique. Others included the use of irritant leaves, fasting, bloodletting, pouring hot water onto the abdomen, and lying on a heated coconut shell.[6] In primitive cultures, techniques developed through observation, adaptation of obstetrical methods, and transculturation.[7] Archaeological discoveries indicate early surgical attempts at the extraction of a fetus; however, such methods are not believed to have been common, given the infrequency with which they are mentioned in ancient medical texts.[8]

Soranus, a 2nd century Greek physician, recommended abortion in cases involving health complications as well as emotional immaturity, and provided detailed suggestions in his work Gynecology. Diuretics, emmenagogues, enemas, fasting, and bloodletting were prescribed as safe abortion methods, although Soranus advised against the use of sharp instruments to induce miscarriage, due to the risk of organ perforation.

Soranus offered a number of recipes for herbal bathes, rubs, and pessaries.[14] In De Materia Medica Libri Quinque, the Greek pharmacologist Dioscorides listed the ingredients of a draught called "abortion wine"– hellebore, squirting cucumber, and scammony– but failed to provide the precise manner in which it was to be prepared.[12] Hellebore, in particular, is known to be abortifacient.[17]

Pliny the Elder cited the refined oil of common rue as a potent abortifacient. Serenus Sammonicus wrote of a concoction which consisted of rue, egg, and dill. Soranus, Dioscorides, Oribasius also detailed this application of the plant. Modern scientific studies have confirmed that rue indeed contains three abortive compounds.[18]

Birthwort, an herb used to ease childbirth, was also used to induce abortion. Galen included it in a potion formula in de Antidotis, while Dioscorides said it could be administered by mouth, or in the form of a vaginal pessary also containing pepper and myrrh.[19]

The seeds of Queen Anne's Lace (Daucus carota), also known as wild carrot, have been in use as a post-coital agent for centuries.

Tertullian, a 2nd and 3rd century Christian theologian, also described surgical implements which were used in a procedure similar to the modern dilation and evacuation. One tool had a "nicely-adjusted flexible frame" used for dilation, an "annular blade" used to curette, and a "blunted or covered hook" used for extraction. The other was a "copper needle or spike". He attributed ownership of such items to Hippocrates, Asclepiades, Erasistratus, Herophilus, and Soranus.[20]

Tertullian's description is prefaced as being used in cases in which abnormal positioning of the fetus in the womb would endanger the life of the pregnant women. Saint Augustine, in Enchiridion, makes passing mention of surgical procedures being performed to remove fetuses which have expired in utero.[21] Aulus Cornelius Celsus, a 1st century Roman encyclopedist, offers an extremely detailed account of a procedure to extract an already dead fetus in his only surviving work, De Medicina.[22]

In Book 9 of Refutation of all Heresies, Hippolytus of Rome, another Christian theologian of the 3rd century, wrote of women tightly binding themselves around the middle so as to "expel what was being conceived."[23]

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 4, 2010 4:41 PM

Oh, true enough, abortion did exist. It wasn't particularly safe back then, so what was promoted was safer and more reliable versions of abortion and birthcontrol and legislative work to "allow" womenn to have abortions (before then, they did anyway, but in secret. I'm sure it was taboo).

The methods of abortion used THEN are not the same thing as the modern methods, at all. They created 20th century abortion in the form we know it.

The problem is, that people who liked eugenics back when abortions and birth control were being modernized and the groundwork was paved, it wasn't for the good of the people having them, but other motivations.

The question remains if SOME of those motivations are still around, but never talked about, based on the source of modern techniques and targeted demographics. This isn't even necessarily a large number thinking this way, but maybe one or two people, but in key positions.

I don't deny that abortion is an important medical procedure, especially when there's an issue of the pregnancy endangering the health of the mother, and no, eugenics probably didn't enter the equation in your wife's case at all.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 4:51 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

As long as people are free to choose, then the possible motivations of a secret theoretical cabal of eugenics advocates claimed to exist in the upper echelons of a discount clinic interest me not at all.

If people become no longer free to choose, I'll be moved to take political action against whoever stole their freedom. Either those that tell them they must Not, or those that tell them they Must.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 4, 2010 8:06 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Thanks Anthony, for some sensible discussion on the matter.

Women have abortions for all sorts of reasons, and have done so since there has been some sort of medical capacity to end a pregnancy. In more recent history, women have been able to procure abortions through doctors if their reason was considered worthy and if they could pay, or through non professional interventions which often resulted in death for the woman involved.

The idea behind the abortion on demand movement is that the person who should make the choice about whether or not to bring a baby to term is the pregnant woman. She may choose to do so because she is 15 and unmarried, or because she has been raped, or because she feels too old to have another child, or she already has too many children, or she is too poor or there is something wrong with the fetus, or her health is at stake or......

we all may have opinions on when it is right, if ever to abort a fetus, but in the end WE don't walk in her shoes, so it's her that has to live with the decision and the consequence.

Eugenics is a dead movement. WW2 pretty much killed those arguments, thankfully

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Friday, June 4, 2010 8:27 PM

Anthony,

Sorry to hear. Also, I apologize for my vagary, I meant to say the movement, or modern abortion. It takes no technology to terminate a pregnancy. The invention of the first clock in Prague in 1347 was not the first clock, yet few clocks today are based on the Egyptian water clock, in fact, our modern mechanics comes out of the revolution which created that clock in Prague. I could cite a thousand other examples, but you get the point.

Abortion, as we know it today, was and is a part of an ongoing stronger than ever eugenics movement, and idea which soared in popularity because of the successes of genocidal tactics in WWII. The word lost popular appeal, particularly with the masses, but not the concept, especially in halls of power. The women's rights movement, alas, was largely guided by eugenicists with the intention of taking away women's most powerful right of all: to have and raise children. A right so powerful, it dwarfs any other.... The hand that rocks the cradle truly is the hand that rules the world. Why do you think the powers that be took over parenting in it's automated megalith of the public school and television? And simultaneously, sent mothers back to work, manipulating the economic system it owns in it's entirety to force two parents to work?

The corps is mother, the corps is father. Eugenics is far from dead, it's the guiding policy in the world today.

I like to think that this is the sort of thought that governs the logic of conservatives with brains, and I understand that it crosses paths with a set of very humanitarian minded liberal ideas, but I believe in the power of the individual, and the collective power of people in random chaotic interaction, and I feel certain that this is a part of that program,

You may have been away when I posted my story of my mothers visit from Sanger's Goon Squad, after the birth of my older sister, who was born with neurofibromatosis, a condition which leaves have her body deprived of bones, and has left her unable to walk. They did not want measures to be taken to save her life, and urged my mother not to have more children, as they would also suffer, and be a burden on society, the birth had labelled my mother, and all related to her, as "undesirables." I am here today because Sangers eugenicists did not have the power they seek, and will soon have.

But given that this an emotional subject for both of us, I suggest we not get into a heated debate about it, feel free to shoot me down.

Auraptor,

Thanks for that, I think that's spot on and more concise than I could have put it.

John

Also thanks, I really agree. At some point we should have a thad about Jones' movie, hopefully we can avoid yet another pointless abortion debate and discuss the NWO or eugenics itself.

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Friday, June 4, 2010 8:35 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Sangers eugenicists did not have the power they seek, and will soon have."

Hello,

No one will have that power within the scope of my voice, the range of my pen, or the swing of my arms.

Free to Choose.

If you believe that Eugenicists helped develop more modern, more safe abortion procedures, then I guess they gave the world a gift by accident.

I do not believe the world is going where you think it is. But if it did, I'd speak, write, and fight just as hard for those who would choose to be mothers as those who would choose not to be.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Friday, June 4, 2010 8:57 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

No one I ever met did anything because of Eugenics.

I take you weren't invited to Bilderburg Group in fascist Spain this year? Bill Gates is there, "donating" billion$ for "vaccines" to covertly sterilize billions of sheeple. Bill Gate's daddy ran Planned Parenthood.

Quote:
"First we got population. The world today has 6.8 billion people. That's headed up to about 9 billion. Now if we do a really great job on new vaccines, health care, reproductive health services, we could lower that by perhaps 10 or 15 percent."
-Bill Gates, Technology, Entertainment and Design 2010 Conference in Long Beach CA 2010
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=127346

Bill Gates wants to cut into your brain
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=42727&m=770801#770801

"Billionaire club in bid to curb overpopulation: SOME of America’s leading billionaires have met secretly to consider how their wealth could be used to slow the growth of the world’s population. Described as the Good Club by one insider it included David Rockefeller Jr, the patriarch of America’s wealthiest dynasty, Warren Buffett and George Soros, the financiers, Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York, and the media moguls Ted Turner and Oprah Winfrey. They gathered at the home of Sir Paul Nurse, a British Nobel prize biochemist and president of the private Rockefeller University, in Manhattan on May 5 2009. Why all the secrecy? “They wanted to speak rich to rich without worrying anything they said would end up in the newspapers, painting them as an alternative world government,” he said."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article635
0303.ece

"Nick Rockefeller told Russo of two primary reasons why the elite bankrolled women's lib, one because before women's lib the bankers couldn't tax half the population and two because it allowed them to get children in school at an earlier age, enabling them to be indoctrinated into accepting the state as the primary family, breaking up the traditional family model. Rockefeller was often keen to stress his idea that "the people have to be ruled" by an elite and that one of the tools of such power was population reduction, that there were "too many people in the world," and world population numbers should be reduced by at least half. Rockefeller said the aim was to supply every one with a (brain) "chip" in order to have the bankers lead them. He means this video on the "Age of Transition, Transhumanim and Posthumanism," of which eugenics is an integrating element. The elite want to create a totally new man without a free will - designed to be their slave - by means of a chip. The Rockefellers were behind the Eugenic Movement long before Hitler – even helped Hitler shape his eugenecist paranoia – and made big money on Hitler¨s Holocaust :
1925. The Rockefeller Foundation funded the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Psychiatry in Munic, directed by Dr. Ernst Rüdin. It continued to sponsor the Institute and its Nazi leader throughout the devastating holocaust of World Ward II. 1934 (February). A Rockefeller "progress report" (by one of the division heads) asks, "Can we develop so sound and extensive a genetics that we can hope to breed, in the future, superior men?
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=147610

What Sanger et al did was mass-produce abortion via factory production lines, with an expert sales force with PhDs in Propaganda, and stealing EVERYONE'S tax dollars at gunpoint to pay for it.

Quote:
"In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation."
-British Petroleum owner/director Nazi Prince Philip King of the 53-nation British Empire in charge of bioweapons labs, and husband of Queen Elizabeth Sax Coberg Gotha Queen of Babylon at Bohemian Grove, If I Were an Animal; United Kingdom, Robin Clark Ltd., 1986

Bottom line, for every baby killed, a child or adult must be killed, to balance the bank accounts of Social Security, pension funds and insurance companies.

Quote:
"The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. Using Leape's 1997 medical and drug error rate would add another 216,000 deaths, for a total of 999,936 deaths annually. Our estimated 10-year total of 7.8 million iatrogenic* deaths is more than all the casualties from all the wars fought by the US throughout its entire history. Our considerably higher figure is equivalent to six jumbo jets are falling out of the sky each day."
—Gary Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Martin Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; Dorothy Smith, PhD, "Death by Medicine", March 2004 (plus 1-Million annual aborticides in USA)
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.htm

Schools for dead kids are named in her honor

"Half of writing history is hiding the Truth."
-Capt Malcolm Reynolds, Serenity

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Friday, June 4, 2010 9:19 PM

DMAANLILEILTT

ironically, our Liberal Party is the conservative party, so that statement directly applies.

"Always look on the bright side of life." Eric Idle

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clarke

"A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.'" Douglas Adams

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?" Nathan Fillion

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Friday, June 4, 2010 9:57 PM

Magonsdaughter: It might surprise you to find I pretty much agree. My struggles with it are that I don't LIKE it (Killing any life, even parasitic, is an iffy thing for me), but I must grudgingly accept the necessity of it, and women who want one should be allowed it. Who really does like abortion, anyway? It's a horrible thing for someone to go through. No one LIKES it. The procedure itself is disturbing and if the foetus(es?) in question were more advanced, the methods might even be considered cruel.

Anyway. So this conversation is not about "sensible," this is talking about the very ugly origins of modern abortion, not the ethicality. This is the actual history of the movement.

The most that has been supposed is that this history may still shadow modern abortion, and color the motivations of some of the people offering it.

Eugenics is not a dead topic. I believe there was quite a scandal in your very Australia, WELL after WW2, where it was found out many aboriginal women were rendered infertile without their consent, and their children, also, were being taken away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#Other_countries

It's still around, its just gone underground. Sometimes you'll see it crop up when America, Canda, Britain, and Australia decide to declare war on someone. Right now, TPTB really seem to hate Arabs (and particularly Muslims), and have done a remarkable job of stirring up anger and hatred for the target groups. You might argue some of the blockades and sanctions we do serve a similar purpose.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 2:08 AM

AGENTROUKA

I don't get it.

Who cares about the decade-old origins of the particular medical procedures at work today ("gift by accident", beautifully put by Anthony) or the alleged motivations of those offering them? (Offering being the key-word, not forcing.)

It's the woman's choice to have an abortion, not the choice of those offering a safe procedure - which is really the only thing that matters.

If you feel that women are pressured to have abortions - adress those pressures, not the offer of abortion. Because as has been clearly shown by the references to ancient abortions, women have always had them. Eugenics have not induced that need in women.

And what is this about the hallowed "right to have children"? It wasn't taken away by the offer of safe abortions. Women still have babies today even in averse economic, psychological or medical conditions. The difference is that those women probably actually want to, because those who don't have access to abortions. And if they choose abortion against their will, adress what pressures them instead of targetting the procedure.

I find this whole discussion somewhat absurd.

ETA: The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, eh? I'm sure that's what motivated all those suffragettes to campaign for women voting, or what motivated feminists to try and actually gain some positions of political influence and secure basic equal rights for women, or what abused wives and uneducated childbrides throughout history have been celebrating... the fact that mothers rule the world. Uh huh.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 2:43 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I find this discussion absurd as well, with a whole lot of different topics mashed into one, including quite unrelated issues around the Stolen Generation, which I am quite aware of, Bytemite.

I support women's right to abortion as vehemently as I would oppose forced sterilisation of any particular racial group or anyone being forced to abort a fetus or having their children taken away from them.

It's all about the right of people choosing when and whether to have children.

I see the whole eugenics argument as a desperate pitch by the anti abortion lobby, and not a very rational one either. Surely you can condemn forced abortions, if they take place, without condemning the right to choose to have one?

Who the hell supports eugenics these days apart from some loony fringes?

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 3:27 AM

Byte,

TPTB hate Islam because of their birth rate, thatR's why they feed the hate into Judaism and christanity, groups that should have no serious problem with Islam. But if you push the right buttons you can create the hate. I think they actually wa t the israel Palestine conflict because it breeds hatred. Theyalso want Muslim immigration to Europe for the same reason, but I do take the point that eugenics has at its heart, white supremacy, so Muslim births aren't just numerical to these goons, they're qualitative, as in "monkey people."

I also think that people who support the other side of this argument are well meaning and are unaware that they're supporting this mentality. I think they've been bombarded with the same sort of manipulation on this issue, leading them to the erroneous conclusion that pro abortion is the women's rights side of the equation. I'm convinced that it's not. Without parenthood, women will become factory slaves in the NWO. If someone convinced you to have an abortion, they most likely saved you nothing, and just killed your child because they didn't want you to reproduce, and they didn't want you having social influence. It is as John says, the hidden holocaust, and these people are victims of it, more to be pit tied than censured. It's much like the gays in the military issue. They're not giving you guys anything but a bullet in your head, don't fight for that right.

ETA: yes, someone likes it, TPTB like it.

Magons,

Who the eugenicists are right now are the powers that be. That would mean international think tanks like count on foreign relations, the bilderberg group, probably heritage foundation, etc. These guys aren't obscure, they are the king makers.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 4:30 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I find this argument bizarre. "Women of the world, throw off the shackles of the workforce where all your men are slaves. Turn to true freedom: Become your slave men's babymakers at home. Escape the new world order by detaching yourself from the wide world. Only by breeding can you truly be free!"

I don't think the slogan will catch on. You folks could use some PHD's in marketing yourselves.

Free to Choose. That's my slogan. Don't think it can be beat.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:27 AM

DT: I considered the possibility of it being the birth-rate, but the problem is they also have a disportionate deathrate.

Hmm, but not enough to make the population growth rate of their countries low. Despite all the problems, population in Africa is exploding.

AR, Magons: Only PN probably really thinks no one should have abortions. although when I've talked to DT his claim about the "right to have children" has annoyed me also.

There seem to be very few women who abort all their children or decide to not have children at all. I should know, because I'm one of the ones who have made the choice to not date, have sex, or have children, and I feel a constant pressure from those around me to stop living an alternative life, and get married, and have babies. Abortion doesn't stop women from actually HAVING children.

That doesn't mean that there aren't dark motivations, just that the conspiracy, if there is one, hasn't been pushed and is not really well thought through. I find a lot of these sort of authoritarian conspiracies/policy decisions/ wars are very poorly thought through. I mean, look at other conspiracy gems, like the CIA trying to kill goats with their minds. Of course it's ridiculous. Tell THEM that.

You are right in that OFFERING doesn't change anything, but I still care about the motivations, and so this conversation really can't be dismissed.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:30 AM

Quote:
I find this argument bizarre. "Women of the world, throw off the shackles of the workforce where all your men are slaves. Turn to true freedom: Become your slave men's babymakers at home. Escape the new world order by detaching yourself from the wide world. Only by breeding can you truly be free!"

I don't think the slogan will catch on. You folks could use some PHD's in marketing yourselves.

Free to Choose. That's my slogan. Don't think it can be beat.

I assume this was directed at DT, because that's NOT what I was saying. At all.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:59 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
I find this argument bizarre. "Women of the world, throw off the shackles of the workforce where all your men are slaves. Turn to true freedom: Become your slave men's babymakers at home. Escape the new world order by detaching yourself from the wide world. Only by breeding can you truly be free!"

I don't think the slogan will catch on. You folks could use some PHD's in marketing yourselves.

Free to Choose. That's my slogan. Don't think it can be beat.

I assume this was directed at DT, because that's NOT what I was saying. At all.

Hello,

Dream and Pirate seem especially to promote this view of the world, and I find it Bizarre.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 6:18 AM

Okay.

I'm still not sure DT is entirely against all abortions, that's more PN's side.

One thing were I might concede a little of DT's right to children idea is that I do feel women are being chewed up and spit out by the modern workforce; of course, I think the same thing about men. But with custody tending to go to women in the court systems, they get hit a lot harder. Plus maternity leave is only like, what, a couple of weeks?

But I would not ever dispute a woman's right to decide whether or not to have children, any more than I would dispute her right to decide whether or not to have sex. Since children are the biological result of sex, forcing a woman to have children is forever tied in my mind as being similar to rape. In any case, both are a violation of the woman's sovereignty of her own body.

But I still think the people building abortion clinics in poor neighborhoods might have shady reasons for it.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 6:54 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world, eh?

It ought to, even if the hand belongs to someone other than the biological parent, being a parent is more than poppin em out, obviously.

I do find the topic itself somewhat absurd as well, and agree with Anthony's take on it - especially watching this week as yet another pointless waste of time happens in Detroit, as the "Educational" event that some group is sponsoring over there supposedly aimed at reducing Teen Pregnancy does what these dumb fuckheads always do...

Lemme throw you a hint, the main topic of their pathetic little diatribes ?
"abstinence and you."
Fuckin morons.

Sure, the kids pushed into it know all the right words to make the adults feel like their getting somewhere, but it's not going to ACCOMPLISH a goddamn thing, it never does, especially when bangin the abstinence drum gets backed up by lies, distortions, and some groups religion, side order of fire, brimstone and threats of eternal damnation - in for a penny, in for a pound, and if you're gonna burn for not holding to an impossible standard anyway...

Solving THIS problem happens at the other end, pennies at the door saves dollars at the window, but everyone using it as a political wedge knows it, they don't wanna solve the problem, just bash the other guy over the head with it, and solving it would disarm them of that weapon.

Anyways, your comment reminded me of a very inspiring turn of words, especially in light of another recent conversation.

He's right, after a fashion - and folks have a responsibility to not fuck that up.

-Frem

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 6:57 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
But I still think the people building abortion clinics in poor neighborhoods might have shady reasons for it.

Of course they do, some of em.

But again, as I am so fond of saying, your REASONS for doing a thing don't mean very much to those who benefit from your actions, you know ?

-F

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 7:01 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Who cares about the decade-old origins of the particular medical procedures at work today ("gift by accident", beautifully put by Anthony) or the alleged motivations of those offering them? (Offering being the key-word, not forcing.)

It's the woman's choice to have an abortion, not the choice of those offering a safe procedure - which is really the only thing that matters.

Quote:
I support women's right to abortion as vehemently as I would oppose forced sterilisation of any particular racial group or anyone being forced to abort a fetus or having their children taken away from them.

It's all about the right of people choosing when and whether to have children.

That says it all for me. This was a stupid discussion from the start, only reflective of PN's desire to put up conspiracies and ugliness.

Abortion was around since the dawn of man practically. If some "eugenics" people made it technologically better, good for them. Nobody is being "forced" to have one...in case anyone's interested, being ABLE to have one is virtually impossible these days for anyone WITHOUT money, thanx to the anti-choice faction. You can't encourage/push/whatever women into having abortions when they're NOT AVAILABLE.

The push is in precisely the opposite direction as put forth by those here. Poor families can't GET the damned things, only those with money can.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 9:08 AM

AND I said that. Most of them really can't afford it, though if you scroll up DT mentions something about a scaled payment plan.

That still doesn't mean there isn't something nefarious behind all this, it only means that the people who are working for this agenda are doing it in a really dumb way.

And it WASN'T ridiculous about 20 years or so ago, when forced sterilization was still happening.

So the question you have to ask yourself, is if this element is still around. Twenty years ago is not near long enough that we can assume all of the people pushing that agenda are dead. So if they're still at it, then WHERE are their efforts being channeled? And if THIS isn't working (and it's not), then what might they try next?

That's what concerns me. That's what I'm trying to find out through research and talking about it. If they're being successful somewhere, I want to screw up the eugenics side of it, while if possible keeping any valuable services that come on the side.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 9:32 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

If you want to imagine hypothetical Eugenics plots in a comic book master-villain sort of way, I'll participate.

1) Identify a chemical that sterilizes the user after long-term use.

2) Make sure you bury any reports about this chemical's deleterious effects, and make sure no new studies are funded.

3) Put the chemical in a product popular with the target population. Preferably a product popular with children.

That's what I would do if I was a Eugenics evil mastermind.

But two-pronged approaches are best. You can't just decrease one population. You have to ensure the desired population prospers.

So,

1) Put out propaganda to the target population advising them of the joys and benefits of motherhood, large families, and traditional unions.

2) Provide legal and financial disincentives for deviating from this ideal. Perhaps tax laws that give compensation for children and marriage.

With this two-pronged approach, the evil Eugenics mastermind can increase one target population and decrease another. Look for these insidious tactics amongst your local neighborhood comic book villains.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 1:17 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Maybe they are building abortion clinics in poor neighborhoods because there is a demand for them????

One of the things that didn't happen well here for a long time, was pregnancy counselling. Different organisations advertised themselves as offering counselling for unwanted pregnancy and they basically fell into two camps

1. Pro choice - counselling consisted of 'do you want to do this, sign the form'
2. Anti choice - 'let's show you pictures of aborted fetuses and guilt you into keeping the baby'

Neither really offered counselling, which is about talking through options and letting a woman make up her own mind after thinking it through carefully. The anti abortion league were dispicable in their tactics, as usual.

I think they've attempted to make it all a bit more transparent, but lets face it, if you go to 'counselling' through the Catholic Happy Families Agency - you're not likely to be provided with information on termination that will let you choose that course of action as an option.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 1:51 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Byte,

TPTB hate Islam because of their birth rate, thatR's why they feed the hate into Judaism and christanity, groups that should have no serious problem with Islam. But if you push the right buttons you can create the hate. I think they actually wa t the israel Palestine conflict because it breeds hatred. Theyalso want Muslim immigration to Europe for the same reason, but I do take the point that eugenics has at its heart, white supremacy, so Muslim births aren't just numerical to these goons, they're qualitative, as in "monkey people."

I also think that people who support the other side of this argument are well meaning and are unaware that they're supporting this mentality. I think they've been bombarded with the same sort of manipulation on this issue, leading them to the erroneous conclusion that pro abortion is the women's rights side of the equation. I'm convinced that it's not. Without parenthood, women will become factory slaves in the NWO. If someone convinced you to have an abortion, they most likely saved you nothing, and just killed your child because they didn't want you to reproduce, and they didn't want you having social influence. It is as John says, the hidden holocaust, and these people are victims of it, more to be pit tied than censured. It's much like the gays in the military issue. They're not giving you guys anything but a bullet in your head, don't fight for that right.

ETA: yes, someone likes it, TPTB like it.

Magons,

Who the eugenicists are right now are the powers that be. That would mean international think tanks like count on foreign relations, the bilderberg group, probably heritage foundation, etc. These guys aren't obscure, they are the king makers.

Just to put this in a different perspective, to get a little bit of a different view of it, let's look at the idea of Prohibition. It was championed by conservatives, by the bible-thumpers who wanted to clear out the saloons and the prostitutes. This gave rise to organized crime - organized crime EXISTED before Prohibition, but it was during this time that it gained its greatest power and influence. So by this logic - the EXACT SAME logic being used in this thread - Conservatives support and favor organized crime.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 1:53 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

You got me curious, so I checked on the internet. I found things by people describing how they'd been "counselled" by anti-abortion services which disgusted me. I found many, many "post-abortion counseling" websites for person-to-person counseling. I found numerous articles decrying the use of specific "information" given to women seeking an abortion is wrong, unnecessary and/or deliberately chosen to scare the woman out of the abortion.

I've found nothing to indicate pro-choice "counseling" consists of "counselling consisted of 'do you want to do this, sign the form' ".

If anyone thinks "they are building abortion clinics in poor neighborhoods", they need to educate on the matter. There are fewer and fewer clinics who provide abortions, and they vary enormously by state. For example, in Mississippi, there is only one provider of abortions. Arkansas, two; Oklahoma, three; Wisconsin, six. That's for the entires states. Numerous other states have many.

There is far, FAR more pressure to make abortion difficult, expensive and/or impossible than there is ANY attempt to "build" abortion clinics anywhere.

I find much on the internet about Planned Parenthood and it's supposedly racist beginnings. However it began, the fact is that NOW, abortions are more easily available to white, middle class people than it is to minority, poor people. Whatever their original aim, that is how it has worked out.

The battle to make abortion available will continue for a long time to come, especially given the tactics anti-abortion groups have increasingly found useful to further their agenda. So what difference it makes how Planned Parenthood started OUT eludes me. What is, is.

By the bye, my mother had an abortion when they were still illegal, early in the last century. It screwed her up, with the result that she had (according to her) four miscarriages afterwards before she was able to have me via cesarean, and afterwards was told she couldn't bear any more children.

So I have a rather personal feeling about a woman's right to choose.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 2:15 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I think I asked before, but how does Planned Parenthood, whatever their motives or beginning were, prove liberals are racist? To the best of my knowledge not all liberals embrace Planned Parenthood, and it's not a tenant of being liberal to believe in that specific organization, but a tenant that a woman's choice should be her OWN. So I'm not sure how, aside from PN's mindset, this thread is anything about how "liberals are racist". Just curious.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 2:17 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I have been hoping that such is exclusively Pirate's opinion.

His 'Everything equals Everything' logic, where anything he doesn't like gets put into the large 'equals' tank.

Don't like liberals? Throw them in the tank. Then they equal everything bad.

--Anthony

"On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you." --Auraptor

"This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on." --Fremdfirma

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 3:28 PM

My position is religious, so its not not going to be logically something I can debate outside of an overall respect for life and nature, and abortion appears to oppose both, also, it does creep me out that it has such strong connections to eugenics, especially as the point is killing folk, particularly the poor, and I got plenty of my own reasons for opposing it from that angle.

All that said, I apply the spirit of the law to the idea, so, sure, the health of the mother is obviously going to take precedence. While I find abortions of convenience a pretty appalling behavior, I find "genetic related" abortions and economically driven abortions nothing short of pure eugenics. I don't know if you guys have been following this, but the eugenics crowd is now promoting genetic tests and ultrasounds to look for flaws, and then abort the "flawed" children, or as they used to call them "the undesirables."

Our difference are what make us as humans greater together than the sum of our individual selves.

Magon,

Not guessing as ton the origins of the policy, anyone can look this up, the history of p,annex parenthood. But, as em said, your view on it's usefulness need not be connected to the motives of those that started it. Still, I think it would be wise to know who did it and why.

Mike,

Prohibition was the pet project of mrs Wilson, a democrat, through her husband, the democratic president, but all in all I still don't see that it applies here.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 4:13 PM

Anthony:

Yeah, it's PN's POV. Racism occurs on an individual level, not on an ideological level.

I'll think over your ideas, thanks for giving it a go. :) You've got some good ones here. In regards to comic book villains comments, there are some things that SOUND ridiculous on the surface, but are real and unspeakably evil.

I note that perhaps TPTB consider the white middle class "poor" and "undesirable" as well. Certainly they get us into jobs where we're treated like shit and they work us to death. If they've moved away from racism, they may have moved towards social darwinism.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 4:14 PM

Quote:
Prohibition was the pet project of mrs Wilson, a democrat, through her husband, the democratic president, but all in all I still don't see that it applies here.

Yes, a pet project beloved of conservatives as well. Similarly, Margaret Sanger speaking at Klan rallies doesn't really strike me as very "liberal", so I guess her activities don't support the original claim in the thread title.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 4:17 PM

Quote:
Not guessing as ton the origins of the policy, anyone can look this up, the history of p,annex parenthood. But, as em said, your view on it's usefulness need not be connected to the motives of those that started it. Still, I think it would be wise to know who did it and why.

Do you feel the same way towards other things as well? The interstate highway system, for instance? The space program? Public transit and its decline?

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I've ever found that the best way to muck up one of TPTBs nefarious plans is to let them try, they're NO good at it, and part of the why is because there isn't one great, grand conspiracy - and the little ones hate each other as much or more than the target, so it bogs down into cat herding and a disaster...

And sometimes, they wind up doin somethin decent by accident - which is always fun to watch.

If you want it done right, hire a professional.

-Frem

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:03 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hee, hee, hee, I LIKE IT!

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:09 PM

Byte

They were always at social Darwinism, and they also always viewed certain whites as undesirable. Its been the Irish, Jews, slavs and nurmerous other groups.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:28 PM

Mike

Margaret Sanger was a lefty socialist, and the klan was a branch of the democratic party, revolting against the policies of the republican north, the klan is still democratic leftist, but the democrats have disowned them. And yes, I do worry that they will show up on the right and start supporting candidates, but the last I checked they were still dreaming of president Hillary.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it right wing. Curious how despite the obvious fact that, hitler ran on the left wing ticket against the right wing Junkers, who supported hindenberg, and that hindenberg won that election, the left to this day largely believes that hitler was the right wing candidate and that he won. Not to say that the right doesn't have an overdose of illusions itself, not to mention we have some really unappealing spokesmen, and a at least a moron or two, just saying that your enemies are not automatically our friends.

The interstate highway was done to replace the railroads, for the benefit of the fuel and trucking industries, like the Internet, I think it was pushing into the defense budget by clever pele, but had few practical military applications.

Dismantling public transit was done for the same reason, overall, it was a Moroni thing to do,

The space program was probably started as a clever diversion of the cold war knot some more
Productive ends by more useful insiders, and occasionally the real goons attempt some military application, but it is never practical. Doesn't mean it never will be, satellites have come in very useful, but it was the private sector work that they're co-opting, not their own.

If your questions are driving where I think they are, as in, do I believe in a grand conspiracy. I already made this very clear:no I do not. Little conspiracies? Sure, they're all over the place. If there were no conspiracies, the holocaust would be impossible. If there were only one conspiracy, the holocaust would also be impossible. The simple fact that all over the world random groups can be on the receiving and also on the dealing end of any massive organized campaign indicates both conspiracies and the lack of a grand conspiracy. Usually I think when you find a little conspiracy that there is not a larger hand guiding it, and that it is not a ouzel piece in a larger plot,

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 10:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Just to put this in a different perspective, to get a little bit of a different view of it, let's look at the idea of Prohibition. It was championed by conservatives, by the bible-thumpers who wanted to clear out the saloons and the prostitutes. This gave rise to organized crime - organized crime EXISTED before Prohibition, but it was during this time that it gained its greatest power and influence. So by this logic - the EXACT SAME logic being used in this thread - Conservatives support and favor organized crime.

Mike

Please do not make any claims to kwicko logic, you have repeatedly and endlessly proven you have no grasp of logic, probalby never have, and would not recognize logic if it crawled up your hiney.
As you have yet again proven here.

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 3:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Margaret Sanger was a lefty socialist, and the klan was a branch of the democratic party, revolting against the policies of the republican north, the klan is still democratic leftist, but the democrats have disowned them. And yes, I do worry that they will show up on the right and start supporting candidates, but the last I checked they were still dreaming of president Hillary.

You must be talking about some other Klan, then, if you think they want Hillary as Prez. But thank you for making the point for me that whatever Sanger or Planned Parenthood or the Klan or even the Democratic Party STARTED OUT as, that's a long, long way from where they are today. The Democrats of today are almost 180º from the Old South Democrats and the "Dixiecrats". Similarly, the Republican Party of today would be utterly unrecognizable to Lincoln.

Quote:

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it right wing. Curious how despite the obvious fact that, hitler ran on the left wing ticket against the right wing Junkers, who supported hindenberg, and that hindenberg won that election, the left to this day largely believes that hitler was the right wing candidate and that he won. Not to say that the right doesn't have an overdose of illusions itself, not to mention we have some really unappealing spokesmen, and a at least a moron or two, just saying that your enemies are not automatically our friends.

Also, just because YOU don't like it, doesn't automatically make it a Democratic party position. Hitler ran on the left, but didn't govern from the left. To say otherwise would be to say that you actually BELIEVE that Reagan and Bush were "conservatives", or that Rand and Ron Paul are "Republicans". They DID run on those tickets, did they not? Surprise of surprises: politicians lie. Try to contain yourself.

Quote:

The interstate highway was done to replace the railroads, for the benefit of the fuel and trucking industries, like the Internet, I think it was pushing into the defense budget by clever pele, but had few practical military applications.

The interstate highway system was a direct descendant of Germany's autobahn system, which was specifically designed to move military materiel around the country quickly and efficiently. It could be said that if you like the interstate system, you support eugenics and Nazism, because that was the climate out of which the limited-access express highway grew.

Quote:

Dismantling public transit was done for the same reason, overall, it was a Moroni thing to do,

Bingo - it was done largely at the behest of the tire, auto, and oil companies, who wanted people forced to buy cars, use more gas, need tires on a regular basis, etc.

Quote:

The space program was probably started as a clever diversion of the cold war knot some more
Productive ends by more useful insiders, and occasionally the real goons attempt some military application, but it is never practical. Doesn't mean it never will be, satellites have come in very useful, but it was the private sector work that they're co-opting, not their own.

Once again, the first applications of weapons in space and ICBMs track back to Nazi Germany and the "V" weapons. The V2 was terribly inaccurate, but it was the first ICBM, and it set the stage for the U.S. and Russian space programs that followed - in fact, there was a mad scramble by both sides to get to Berlin first, in order to grab up as many top scientists as they could. The Soviets arguably got most of them, but the U.S. may have gotten some of the best, Werner Von Braun included.

Our entire NASA program is a direct outgrowth of Hitler's secret weapons programs. Does that make satellite TV evil?

Quote:

If your questions are driving where I think they are, as in, do I believe in a grand conspiracy...

Actually, not at all - but it seems very conspiracy-minded of you to think so. ;) No, my point was that MANY things we have today and use regularly grew out of nefarious beginnings which might well make us cringe if we thought about them. It doesn't make the thing itself evil or part of some grand conspiracy.

By the way, you DID know that Henry Ford was a rabid anti-semite and an ardent supporter of Hitler, right? It doesn't mean he perfected the assembly line as a method of destroying Jews - although Hitler DID seem to treat the Final Solution almost as a factory/assembly line approach to what he viewed as the problem. That doesn't make the new Mustang evil or eugenic. :)

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 3:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Just to put this in a different perspective, to get a little bit of a different view of it, let's look at the idea of Prohibition. It was championed by conservatives, by the bible-thumpers who wanted to clear out the saloons and the prostitutes. This gave rise to organized crime - organized crime EXISTED before Prohibition, but it was during this time that it gained its greatest power and influence. So by this logic - the EXACT SAME logic being used in this thread - Conservatives support and favor organized crime.

Mike

Please do not make any claims to kwicko logic, you have repeatedly and endlessly proven you have no grasp of logic, probalby never have, and would not recognize logic if it crawled up your hiney.
As you have yet again proven here.

I see you failed the section of the SATs where you had to complete the comparisons ( "X is to Y, as A is to ___).

You're right about one thing, though: There is no "logic" in the claims of the original post. That was my point. Again, I see how you missed it; I didn't make it simple enough.

Mike

On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you. --Auraptor

This vile and revolting malice - this is their true colors, always has been, you're just seeing it without the mask of justifications and excuses they hide it behind, is all. Make sure to remember it once they put the mask back on. --Fremdfirma

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 7:30 AM