A question/experiment. by Fremdfirma

OK, I'll play.

1. Eric Prince (Xe/Blackwater)
2. Hugh Grant (CEO Monsanto, not the actor)
3. Leon Panetta (Director, CIA)
4. Douglas Shulman (Commissioner, IRS)

#5 open to candidates who are robbing people blind in financial markets.

ETA: I want to amend my list to name the institutions they represent rather than the current "official" heads. Besides, Prince is no longer the current official head.

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 3:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

1. Richard Nixon
2. Ken Lay
3. Tom Delay
4. Rick Perry
5. Bernie Madoff

Did I win?

This Space For Rent!

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Monday, January 24, 2011 3:59 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

1) The cartoon characters in the Disney 'Scrooge McDuck' animated series who wear striped prison uniforms and carry bags of loot.

2) The nameless Shepherd of the field in Biblical tales who employs a staff.

3) The Sheriff of Nottingham, as played by Alan Rickman (sp?).

4) One of any nameless western villains from the golden age of tv westerns, who wears a kerchief mask.

5) Alan Rickman again, as the villain of Die Hard.

I am mildly disturbed at this list. I wrote down the first five things I thought of before reading further.

--Anthony

Edited to Add: Do I still get a bonus for not 'cheating' until after I answered?

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 5:08 AM

Oooh, I love your list, Anthony.

I think we should just say Alan Rickman for all five.

1. Die Hard (Gruber)
2. Robin Hood (Sheriff)
3. Quigley Down Under (Marston)
4. Sweeney Todd (Turpin)
5. Rasputin (Rasputin)

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 5:45 AM

Wall Street, just about every politician ever, certain particularly abusive corporate CEOs, Militaristic Empires.

Can't think of a fifth, I think I covered it in four.

Also, I tried to cheat, but only AFTER I posted my list.

EDIT: fifth. Corrupt Cops, who do not quite fall under the heading of politician OR arm of militaristic empires.

EDIT2: sixth. Banks. Really like to fit that one in somewhere.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 6:22 AM

PRETTYXPISTOL

1) Enron
2) Chairpersons of AGI? (who got those bonuses after the bailout money)
3) Sheriff of Nottingham
4) Charles Ponzi

[It is easy to hate and it is difficult to love. This is how the whole scheme of things works. All good things are difficult to achieve; and bad things are very easy to get]

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Monday, January 24, 2011 10:44 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Well...

1. My employers who didn't actually send the taxes they took out of my checks to the government.

2. My manager who was found embezzling and got fired.

3. Whatever fucker stole and totaled my second car.

4. On that note, car insurance companies.

5. AT&T

...seems a bit more personal than a lot of the lists of CEOs and such. But, that's what I thought of first, so there you have it.

I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 11:05 AM

Okay, I am only half awake but I figured that this was a psychology trick and not an opinion poll, so I gather the words "first five that come to mind" were meant literally, so I deliberately just started listening to the next five words to pop into my head and the typed them in.

Nixon clinton bush Capone gotti

If that was the trick, then it's scary. The media has certainly broadcast crook in association with these people name (lesson of life:never say the word "crook" on camera.)

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Monday, January 24, 2011 11:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

In reality:

BP
Enron
Wall Street
Delay
Nixon

Or, to put it another way: "What Byte said".

In fantasy:

Alan Rickman
Alan Rickman
Alan Rickman
Alan Rickman
Alan Rickman

Okay, so I've got a crush on Alan Rickman, I plead guilty. I first saw him in Robin Hood and he made me laugh SO hard...so after that I paid attention to him whenever I saw him. Loved him in everything he's done.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, January 24, 2011 12:37 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Mine were, and I didn't post em earlier to avoid loading the question...

1. Nixon
2. Verbal Kint (usual suspects)
3. Leon (the professional)
4. Slippery Jim Digriz (stainless steel rat)
5. Jack Abramoff

(I'll admit the "jailbirds" from Disney that Anthony mentioned did come to mind)

Okay, so maybe RWED was not exactly the ideal sample base to choose from, not for bad reasons, just that we seem to be folk who, many of us, actually think before answering, and are a bit more "involved" in life, the world and other things...

Four out of Nine is still, even after so long, indicative - and no, not precisely a psychology trick, but rather what name is likely to pop up in anyones head at the mention of the specific WORD "Crook".

This is in relation to a study-paper on political backlash/blowback effect, and given *that* information, you know exactly what name I was expecting to pop up 50% or more of the time - Nixon.

By saying those words, in light of the ever-mounting evidence he was lying through his teeth, he stamped the word "CROOK" on his legacy in letters of fire eight feet tall, just as Clinton, in his denials, did much the same - this is ever more dangerous in the heydays of the internet, what with how memes get started, but that one pre-existed the internet, the social meme of "I am not a crook!" still brings hilarity, to the point where at one time many criminals used Nixon masks (them also being widely available) instead of stocking masks, leading to further solidification of that meme.

He hasn't decided how to close the paper, whether to go with his assertion (which I told him is mealy-mouthed tripe) that sometimes it's better to answer such allegations through an attorney, or mine that the best policy is to shut the fuck up (not in so many words, mind) cause a closed mouth gathers no feet - you'd THINK in this day and age most kids would type faster than he does...

Oh, and just so you know, you guys crack me the hell up, and I needed a good laugh or two today.

And...

Select to view spoiler:

Now for the bonus question: and SPOILER TAG YOUR ANSWERS!

For those who did bite the schmuck-bait...
How often do you "cheat" when no one is harmed by it, like at solitare, single player games, riddles, stuff like that ?

Myself - all the time, but for the weird reason of picking things apart, specifically games, in order to figure out HOW THEY WORK, which one could also consider "cheating" via having an understanding of the game engine and it's own internal "rules" that a human opponent wouldn't have.
(See Also: TVTropes - The Computer is a cheating bastard)
I particularly hate games that break their OWN rules in order to present a supposed challenge.
(See Also: Rubberband AI)
I figure if the game engine is gonna cheat me, tis only "fair" that I return the favor, although that's kind of meta, I admit.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 1:29 PM

Select to view spoiler:

I do sometimes, when I have a regular deck of solitaire cards, start out doing 3-draw rules, and eventually end up doing 1-draw rules.

With 1-draw rules, you win every time.

I also have an unusual skill with beating the computer version of solitaire, or used to have, since I don't have much time to just play it anymore. I think it must be an intrinsic understanding of the strategies and the card randomizer and other factors without really being conscious of the how or able to explain.

I never cheated on tests in school though, didn't need to. I also used to switch all my jelly beans in my easter basket out with my brother's without him knowing, which I guess is a kind of cheating or dishonesty. Especially when he started wondering why he had so many coffee-flavour jellie beans...

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Monday, January 24, 2011 1:33 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Ok, I'm not reading the spoilers

Carl Williams
Jason Moran
Victor Pierce
Mick Gatto
Sqizzy taylor

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Monday, January 24, 2011 4:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, so I've got a crush on Alan Rickman, I plead guilty.

Me too. Me too. Sigh.

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 4:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

First thing that came to mind: Nixon. As in "I am not a _________"

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Monday, January 24, 2011 5:49 PM

Frem

That's sort of what I meant by trick, that this was about sleight of mind, not looking for thoughtful answers. I recognized the words "first ... to come to mind" was looking for a gut response. Sorry, I was short on humor. I think everyone thinks, and also gut reacts. It's knowing the one from the other.

I posted, and then cheated.

Best responses IMHO:

"3. Whatever fucker stole and totaled my second car."

and

"Alan Rickman"

lol. Alan Rickman is pretty awesome. Also shows that Gary Oldman must be flagging somewhere.

Also, that what the Harry Potter movies really needed to boost that extra dollar was a little Snape/Hermione slash.

Select to view spoiler:

Oh man, that's just not right. - speaking of alan rickman movies.

Magon's list was most curious, because I think, absent our media, our list would looks similar, different names, same idea. I also thought that the Sheriff showed up twice, that was very curious. IIRC, Robin Hood was the crook. Anarchist perhaps, but the Sheriff was enforcing the law (think of it what you will)

But it also bring up this thought:

If the Sheriff is the crook, then logically you're saying that crook is a subjective judgment, ergo, our laws of today could be looked at in the same way, as being purely subjective judgments. I'd basically agree with that sentiment, but it's not one that I've seen people really post here, and not a common one in society. (Okay, obviously Frem has, and CTS as well on a good many occasions.)

But so often people say with moral indignation "It was illegal, they broke the law, they should be punished." Perhaps that requires more thought if people are going to consider the Sheriff of Nottingham, not just the villain of the story, but "a crook."

I was recently reading about historical documents.

(not these ones)

But rather ones on robin hood, who was apparently arrested many times. Much that has been told was true, except for the bit about Kings, which appears to be fiction, they never really entered into it. It also appears Robin's father was arrested as well, but only once. Another curious note, the tree that Robin is supposed to have hidden out in still stands.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 8:28 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, so I've got a crush on Alan Rickman, I plead guilty.
Me too. Me too. Sigh.

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

Me too too.

Odd I was just having that conversation with a girlfriend recently, where we both admitted to AR being a rather strange lust object.

Loved him since Truly, Madly, Deeply.

DT, my list were local villians, all organised crime, just one from the past. The others have gained notoriety in recent years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underbelly_%28TV_series%29

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Monday, January 24, 2011 9:02 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I read the Stainless Steel Rat series when I was younger. It was fun.

Select to view spoiler:

If no one is hurt by it, I don't much consider it cheating.

IF no one is hurt by it. That's a big IF.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 9:03 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Okay, so I've got a crush on Alan Rickman, I plead guilty.
Me too. Me too. Sigh.

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

Me too too.

Odd I was just having that conversation with a girlfriend recently, where we both admitted to AR being a rather strange lust object.

Loved him since Truly, Madly, Deeply.

DT, my list were local villians, all organised crime, just one from the past. The others have gained notoriety in recent years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underbelly_%28TV_series%29

Hello,

You guys should watch Closet Land, if you haven't already.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 11:17 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

I must admit, I took the bait and read the spoiler. I did so looking for a better understanding of the question. "Crook" isn't a word I think I've ever actually used myself and I was trying to figure out what exactly you meant by it.

Of course the first thing I thought of was Nixon and the "I am not a crook" thing.

From their I decided to base my definition on the Nixon example, so I figured "crook" must be someone in power who lies to us for their own gain and too our detriment and came up with:

2 Those hypochristians spouting hellfire and brimstone, damning every homosexual and liberal artist and trying to make Christianity "exclusive" rather than "inclusive" as Jesus wanted. I can go on all day in how the bible the actually speaks against them, but that's not really the topic of this thread. I hate them because of how they turn people from God and make real Christians look bad.

3 The Climate Scientists who appear to ignore or suppress significant data so that they can push their on social or economic agenda

4 Politicians in general

5 Some of my earlier teachers (usually history) who knowingly taught us lies. I won't go into specifics cause I fear it will start a flame war with those who believe what they've taught or agree with them out of their likely 'noble intentions' to grow us with the proper mindset.

It's just not right in my opinion to brand an entire culture with that kind of evil, even if they did lose the conflict, and if your a child who's ancestors were part of that conflict on the losing side, you kinda think you should be ashamed or something, cause your family must have been real douche's way back when right? Surely everyone on that side was as evil as the folks they taught us about? Why else would they have fought?

My "crooks" came from stream of consciousness word association and are by no means the "top 5" of crookedness. Concerning the spoiler...

Select to view spoiler:

Like you with the computer, I was actually looking for information. Sometimes the computer really is a cheating bastard though, lol. There was this one mission on XWA I always had to 'cheat' with invulnerability or skip cause it was so disproportionately hard compared to the ones before and after it. As it turned out, I eventually found out that due to a glitch, that mission was always locked in at the hardest possible difficulty and there was a patch to fix that and some other issues.

Also, I guess I 'cheat' Neverwinter Nights sometimes, but I think of it more as editing. Basically, instead of using the 'point buy' stat method I roll my stats with dice (I prefer the more random aspects of D&D) and manually enter them after creating a character and starting the game.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:37 AM

KWICKO

Select to view spoiler:

There's a big tussle going on in the GranTurismo/PlayStation3 universe right now over just this "ethical" question.

Seems there's a "glitch" in the new game, which allows you to gather up FREE "Birthday Cars" - the game gives you a free car on your birthday if you log in, and people are hoarding them, getting many, many copies of the various cars in the game by quitting/rebooting the game.

Another part of the "glitch" allows you to save your game data, as well as allowing you to "gift" cars to friends in the game. So there's a rash of people backing up their data, going and buying something hideously expensive in the game, then sending it to a dummy account before quitting the game and reloading their backup data, thereby getting (a) all their money back, and (b) a copy of the car sent to a dummy account, which they then promptly send back to their main account.

Some view this as "cheating"; others view it as merely exploiting a vulnerability that was built into the game. Me? I figure if you paid $60 for the game, you can play it however the hell you want.

This Space For Rent!

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Of course the first thing I thought of was Nixon and the "I am not a crook" thing.

It's funny I didn't think of Nixon. Of all the crooked presidents, I liked him better than many others. Well, better than many others in recent history.

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Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 6:15 AM

Nixon had his merits. I think he was probably a positive influence on Ike as well, since it was really Nixon who pushed the nuke ban.

Obama may very well be the Nixon of today. He inherited the war, and did not exit, and the war gets increasingly bad, and unpopular, and Obama's internal elite is growing weary of him, I can definitely see them staging an internal coup.

There was an excellent conspiracy blog I posted here a couple years ago, I can't find it now because I'm a hopelessly disorganized person. Anyway, the theory went like this:

Rove and (another GOP op whose name escapes me atm) <--ETA: Actually I think it was GHW Bush [/edit] arranged the spying, and taped themselves, and sold themselves out to the Neocons for a greater role in govt. for themselves. They may or may not have sold Nixon on the idea, but as many people have pointed out, since 1995, everything that was done in Watergate would now be legal, so it's hard to take this as the greatest crime of all time.

The neocons then created what would later be the Ford govt., while the previously loyal GOP ops sold Nixon on the cover-up, which is what sank him. Cover-ups leave muddy footprints everywhere, and scream guilt.

Anyway, the closing argument listed the people who have prominent positions in either party who were nowhere before what he calls the watergate coup and had been involved in, overwhelmingly, the prosecution of watergate and the assembling of the post watergate govt, and not so much watergate itself, outside the ops in question. Meanwhile, mainstream GOP and Dem leaders dwindled in power.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 6:38 AM

Hmm, could that have been the turning point in the US government? I know people point the blame at FDR's New Deal, which might have some truth to it, but it seems like the the US government is consolidating power at an unprecedented rate.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 6:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

1. Al Sharpton

2. Jesse Jackson

3. Rahm Emanuel

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm, could that have been the turning point in the US government? I know people point the blame at FDR's New Deal, which might have some truth to it, but it seems like the the US government is consolidating power at an unprecedented rate.

I think there's been several turning points. Slippery steps, if you will.

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:57 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

And we just let them happen.

I think we've kind of hit a plateau.

Always said Obama was important. made everyone wake up a little bit and think about where we are.

So how about, before we go sliding on down, we actually think (at least that) of going back UP?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 10:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Re: Alan Rickman. Leave us not forget "Love, Actually" and of course

, with just a voice, he all but stole the show!

Sorry, I'd rather discuss Rickman than crooks...much more uplifting.

Wulf, stay in your fantasy world, black and white is much, much easier than to see the real world. Obama didn't "wake" anyone up; he's the target, partly because of Republicans' EXCELLENT snow job, partly because of racism (yes, it does exist still and, subconsciously at least, it is why some people hate him so).

We're on no plateau; I'm betting the Republicans are willing to trash America just to win back the White House, and given what they did to us LAST time, I'm surprised anyone would want them back!

The whole intention of the right is to shift this country into two societies: the rich and the rest of us. They want MORE tax cuts for the rich, believe it or not, they want TAX CUTS ON THE MIDDLE CLASS, and they want to do away with Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Ask yourself who that helps...and who it harms...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:09 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"they want TAX CUTS ON THE MIDDLE CLASS,"

OH NOES!!!! OMFG!!! Everyone PANIC!!!! MY GOD OH MY GOD! Most Americans will pay LESS in taxes!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might actually keep more than 60% of my income soon!?????

OH GOD NO!!! HELP HELP!!!

I might actually be able to pay MY bills then!!

Terror!! panic! Horror!

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm, could that have been the turning point in the US government? I know people point the blame at FDR's New Deal, which might have some truth to it, but it seems like the the US government is consolidating power at an unprecedented rate.
I think there's been several turning points. Slippery steps, if you will.

-------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

It ain't a plateau, it's a waterslide to hell.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:01 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Y'all are great, really you are - and ok yes, Alan Rickman is kind of awesome, I'll give you that.

HappyTrader, I think some of that would actually make a pretty good discussion thread of it's own, given the fascinating degree which we agree on some things depite being from mutually antagonistic and opposed theology/philosophies - that's something well WORTH debating/exploring in detail.

Oh, and said lunkhead went with the "answer through your attorney" assertion, for which I called him a weasel, and he responded that taking political advice from "a known villain" (his words, not mine) wasn't exactly the best way to make points with his teacher...

He DID get the extra credit though, which is good cause if he fails his mom is gonna throw a hissy and ban him from sports, which is understandable.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:34 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Wulf, show me where it says they want to cut taxes on the middle class. No, not what they SAY, what they DO, because they'll say anything.

I know your fantasy world is more comfortable, but maybe, just maybe, someday you'll learn that the Republicans are far more in the pockets of Wall Street, the banks, oil companies and the rich than Democrats are at this time in history. Or not.

Here's something for you, because I CAN back up what I opine:

Quote:
Under new rules adopted by Republicans, from now on pay-go will only apply to new spending, not to new tax cuts. But not all tax cuts are exempt, only those identified as worthwhile by GOP leaders. According to the rules, extended tax cuts for the wealthy are protected. But expansion of the earned income tax credit and the child tax credit, which help middle-class and low-income families, are not.

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=277582

That's what they've already DONE...not the slick promises they make all the time, but their actual actions. That's what you need to pay attention to, and those actions speak very loudly. Check out the thread on "What gives?", THEN defend them...if you can...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:46 PM

Quote:
he responded that taking political advice from "a known villain" (his words, not mine) wasn't exactly the best way to make points with his teacher...

...Does the boy have a brain, or did they replace it with a very large rock when he turned 1 yo?

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:18 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, he's a "jock", Byte, albeit rather more on the intellectual side - the elder brother of one of my Socrates Club, and his mother SENT him to me for this, cause I am the most "clever" person she knows.
(personally I think she's nuturing a bad-boy crush)

So while quite willing to make use of my assistance, he's bought into that whole "Ghost of Huey Long" thing and the various other smears, which I, in accordance with the very shut-yo-mouf policy I suggested to him, never bothered to confirm or deny.

I'm still quite fond of the original editorial just prior to the city council election, cause it made me sound like some kinda sci-fi monster, all glaring eyes and grasping claws and whatnot.

But yeah, he bought that shit, hook, line and sinker - he was practically expecting to see a rack and thumbscrews just laying around, I swear, kids these days....

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:22 PM