60 Minutes anchor Lara Logan brutally attacked by Egyptian crowd by OPPYH

I can't say I fully understand one aspect of this story, and that's this was confirmed a sexual assault, but it's not a rape. Do they mean molestation? I'm not really sure what else this could be.

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 9:36 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I can't say I fully understand one aspect of this story, and that's this was confirmed a sexual assault, but it's not a rape. Do they mean molestation? I'm not really sure what else this could be.

Sexual assault can be anything from Sexual Imposition (grabbing), Gross Sexual Imposition (inserting and really big-time grabbing), to rape (inserting in that not-so special way). Violence and the threat of violence are special circumstances that can be used to enhance those offences.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 9:46 AM

Appreciate the clarification.

It's a good thing people intervened before it went any farther.

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:37 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Appreciate the clarification.

It's a good thing people intervened before it went any farther.

From all reports it went pretty far. I think this falls into the 'lucky to be alive' catagory.

I've always been surprised that this is not more common. Female reporters have always treated dangerous situations like riots, mobs, war zones, and lawlessness as just another male lockeroom.

A male reporter might be kidnapped, assaulted, and even killed. A female reporter risks all of those plus rape and I don't think threatening to get NOW or the ACLU to sue the bad guys is very persuasive.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:45 AM

Quote:
I've always been surprised that this is not more common.

It is a lot more common. It's probably happened to people you'd never even guess at.

At the same time, they're not reporters and they're not famous, so no one ever knows. She probably was not the only woman those guys were assaulting. And those guys were probably not the only rape-happy group in that crowd, either.

Males can be easily raped as well. There's no reason to suggest that being one gender in a dangerous situation is more safe than the alternative. Not unless the perpetrators are known to be using rape as a weapon of war and a genocide tactic against the target population, in which case raping females becomes SOP.

Anyway, it's not her fault what happened to her, and she has the right to make her living how she wants same as any other reporter.

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 12:06 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Right on, Byte - although they'll not listen to me, I did fire off some commentary about the necessity of a proper security element when doing reporting in a hot zone.

As one might recall, after the may-day incident in which several reporters for bi-lingual media were brutalized by police, I started getting back into the security biz, and assisted them in building and vetting their own security elements, which put paid to any further problems and it's been a couple years now, right - cheap at the price.

And I do mean PROPER security element, not some set of no-neck thugs from blackwater or whatnot, which will CAUSE more trouble, but real security people, who are discreet and effective.

That said, I'd like to slap all the nimrods playing blame the victim with this, it's pretty damn ugly...

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:20 PM

That's awful.

I quite like Lara Logan, and she never gets coverage for her own material, even her own network has been repeatedly silencing her reports. I think her words were "Sorry, we can't carry that, Britney's back in rehab" re: a story about civilian casualties in Iraq. Ironic how the media is only interested in her as a victim, then, suddenly, she's on the news, but not as a reporter. (Watch the video to see why)

I see details of the story are being blocked as are comments, but I'm going to make a guess at what happened: The only thing that I can think of that would fit the definition of "prolonged sexual assault and battery" that would land you in the hospital and still fall outside of someone's definition of "rape," (though not mine) would be a gang-bang forced oral sex. Even prostitutes who intentionally submit to these can end up pretty badly damaged.

I've known plenty of women who have been raped, and only one factor seems to really determine the result: their proximity to rapists. Rapists gravitate towards easy pickings, so it's fairly easy to predict where they will be, which will usually be crowded and chaotic places. Crowded orderly places don't fit their bill, nor do quiet chaotic places.

Of the college student that were raped around here, the location they were most often assaulted was actually the back of a cop car. After that, a bar, but not any bar, one particular bar, which turned out to be one guy. I think this is typical.

I assume also that the Logan attack was a gang. A crowd wouldn't behave like this by itself, rapists just aren't common enough. If there were one rapist in the crowd, he wouldn't to it because someone would kill him, not join in. It would seem more likely that there was a group who figured they could get away with anything in the haze.

I can't help but think that there's a possibility that this was orchestrated by the coup govt. to get the media out of the demonstrations. It seems just too unlikely to me that the crowd would behave in this fashion, esp. given how they've behaved to date. It seems that the muslims and christians who have been gathering in circles around one another might intervene and stop this sort of thing.

Anyway

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:37 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Good clip DT. Really shocking and horrible what happened to her.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 3:01 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

When people are in a crowd, especially in a situation that lends itself to rioting behaviors, they have a tendency to do things that they might not normally do, they get sucked into this mob mentality "everyone else is doing it" or "there are so many people here that no one will know it was me", often win out over "I want to do the right things, even if those around me aren't". That being said such atrosities occuring during this sort of situation, sadly, doesn't surprise me. Its horrible though and disgusting and I don't think these guys should get any slack given them even if they say they got caught up in the moment, they should still be made to pay the consequences for their actions. And Byte is right, just because rape of women is more common doesn't mean men don't have to be careful too, it can happen to anyone.

Frem's point about security for reporters is a good one, people tend to be safer in situations if they plan ahead to cover all their bases. That certainly doesn't mean this was her fault, it wasn't her fault of course, but maybe this situation will lead to reporters being more security concious.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 3:25 PM

Riona,

I'm not sure. I think the war atrocities come from a misplaced notion of leadership rather than just group think alone, but that's different than a riot. The mob is still going to be made of people, and they are going to behave differently from one another.

I think rapists are of a different mentality than the rest of the species, because evolution doesn't select for them. In an ape society, I would suspect to find them outside of the tribe, picking off the weak, but what I read of the bonobo, you don't find them at all, which leads me to think it's an artificial creation of society, like the serial killer, and other deviations we don't see in ape populations.

If you get a group of people around the victim, most of them will try to save her. This isn't just humane and nice, it's also evolutionarily sound. What are the chances with reproducing with a woman on a one time shot as part of a 20 member rape gang vs. the chances if you are her protector? Evolution is going to select against the rapist, so he has to be created, and will undoubtedly be outnumbered by the chivalrous everywhere he goes. Were it not so, every social gathering would end this way.

If you take the position that I do, that a rapist is an abnormal personality type, not just a type of behavior exhibited by all men in the absence of law, then it stands to reason that he would be surrounded by opposition. Now, sure, he could drag her into a corner and maybe no one would notice them with everything else that's going on, but from what I hear of the story, it seems more and more to be a gang activity. Gang psychology is not something I really understand, but I get that it has something to do with the leadership group think, and something to do with "all gangsters are abnormal because gangs specifically select for that." I suspect that a gang got her, and then was beaten out by a group of women, who then got the assistance of soldiers. I suspect details will not be forthcoming from the media, but will come out because, even though it was a mad scene, there were witnesses with cameras everywhere. I'm sure Lara doesn't want it to come out, but it might be useful information for other women, as someone just posted, if a gang got to her, they undoubtedly got to other women first, whose stories will never be told. They probably had no idea who she was. This is frequently the case with attacks on celebrities. (celebrity stalkers get a lot of publicity, but celebrity's killers seem more likely to land in two categories: People who knew them very well, or those who have no idea who they were.)

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 3:34 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I'm not so sure comparing human society to ape society is a very good thing to aspire to. After all, chimpanzees eat other chimpanzees from other bands, I don't think we should really be looking to them for answers about how we ought to behave, or what should be considered normal. An bonobos will rut with anyone, do we really want to be like that? Well I guess maybe some people do but I'm not interested thanks. I think that either way you look at rape, what brings it about etc. we can all agree that it is wrong, disgusting and very bad, that it is a crime of violence and should not be tollerated. Period.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:28 PM

Technically any society we have is going to be an ape society no matter how we organize, us being apes and all. However, how humans naturally organize is a matter of much debate.

My guess is that small troops/tribes of hunter gatherers was most common. Also, coupling and reproduction selected for two person pairings most of all, though not necessarily exclusively or permanently.

I'd also suspect gangs more than single actors or mob mentality. The "mob" as it were, was in an entirely different emotional state than the group in question, otherwise the news would have reported the entire scene degenerating into rape and violence. My guess is these guys weren't necessarily at the celebration for the same reason other people were, thus explaining their wildly different behaviour.

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:56 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

I can't say I fully understand one aspect of this story, and that's this was confirmed a sexual assault, but it's not a rape. Do they mean molestation? I'm not really sure what else this could be.

It was the TSA airport security screeners.

BTW is it really possible to rape a CIA agent during a CIA coup?

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 5:22 PM

I agree with Byte, well said. I think the rapists were opportunists, like looters, and not revolutionaries. The question of apes mandates how we behave, it is not that we aspire to it, it's that we evolved from it.

If you look at the way ape society evolved, it's eminently logical. Female ape can fend for herself just fine, but if she does so all of the time, no one is looking after the kids. Ergo, she needs a mate who will when she's off gathering, or one who will gather. (since the bonobo are principally vegetarians, hunt doesn't really apply here.)

So, female is going to select a male with added value. This is where female selection comes from. The male who brings more than just another warm body provides an advantage, otherwise he's not much of a protector or gatherer, as he cant do anything she couldn't do herself, and any ape would do.

So, males compete. Some male ends up as alpha male. It makes the most sense for alpha male to have an all female tribe, as that ups his replication rate. However, this only works for a little while, because he can only gather for so many kids, eventually, his tribe is going to hit a size limit.

This is where betas come in. It's probably disadvantageous for an alpha male to let another alpha male into his tribe, but a beta makes sense. The beta has only one mate, and yet, as a male, provides almost as much providing power as the alpha male, so suddenly the food and defense powers are doubled, more or less, but the dominance % is only decreased slightly for the alpha male.

The species has clearly evolved to support this model. If it didn't, it would make more sense for the female fertility rate to be 100%. Instead, it's around 3%, on average, and it will take up to a year of steady mating to produce a pregnancy. This is clearly not a model which was design to support the rapist, and it's hard to see any model which supports gang rape, from an evolutionary perspective.

Our society runs basically the same way, except that once all the males are forced into the beta role, we get what I call serial polygamy. The alphas seek out many mates, but in series. But they're not the rapists here, they spend their time with each one.

Bonobo society doesnt seem to create disenfranchised males, and I've often wondered whether Islam does, but I suspect that most men are monogamous anyway.

The rapist needs several emotional short circuits. First. He has to be violent, he sees violence as solving problems, and always has, or from an early age. Second, he has to not see the end goal of sex as reproduction, but is caught up in the reward system itself. The gang bang forced oral sex rape scenario fits this very well: it's incredibly violent, and satisfies only the sexual urge, and has zero chance of reproduction.

I feel that since evolution does not explain the rapist, something else does, not sure what.

ETA: I see she's no longer with Michael Ware but some guy named Jospeph Burkett. This is apparently the result of her getting knocked up, and the result was a brawl between Burkett and Ware.

John

If she were a CIA agent, she'd have more pull. She's just an independent CBS reporter who can never get her stories covered, I think they only gave her the senior position to keep her there, and because they had to, because she was the one actually reporting, but they haven't actually been promoting her stuff. It seems they're much more fond of their new CFR star Katie. My guess is that Lara and Katie probably get along fine, but then, so do we, and there's a whole lot of stuff we don't agree on, what with me being an MKULTRA sex slave ;)

All of that said, sure, I don't see why not. But honestly, I don't think these guys were CFR, probably closer to RUF. Or whatever the Egyptian equivalent is. I can't see the JLF or those guys doing something like this. Could just be some random thugs. (the infamous SRT)

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Wednesday, February 16, 2011 9:44 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I'm not going to argue about apes and humans and evolving here. I think that the gang mentality, in some ways, is similar to that crowd mentality "Well I want to fit in and everyone else is doing it". Obviously there are differences, but the gang folk probably took advantage of the crowd things going on around them, counting on the chaos and crowds in order to try and get away with the raping thing.

DT, just because there are a lot of people around doesn't mean someone will come to the aid of one who is being hurt. Its called the Kitty Genevaes (spelling?) effect. This woman Kitty was outside an apartment complex in New York. This guy proceeded to harm her and kill her violently and no one did anything about it, even though later at least 20 people admitted to hearing/seeing parts of it going on, everyone assumed that someone else would help, and thus no one did. That doesn't happen all the time but it can and does happen, like in this case. Its really sad.

What brings about rape? Well obviously there are some hardwiring issues, the rapist's physicality is off kilter and they are willing to act on it, as opposed to recognizing that it is wrong and not following through on it. Maybe they figure they won't get caught, maybe they have poor impulse control, probably a combination of both. Whatever the root cause such behavior must be punished and discouraged.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:46 AM

Riona

I feel pretty sure that any gang activity was orchestrated by a pre-existing gang. It's possible this was a lone person, but if this is true, fondling alone doesn't land you in the hospital, and would not require 20 people to subdue, so it leads me to suspect gangbangers. But yes, you're right that gangbangers would take advantage of a crowd. When they stopped moving, they'd become noticeable. And other people would start to wonder what they were focused on. If you've ever been in a large protest I'm sure you've run into this situation: everyone is constantly moving, but a dozen people aren't, suddenly you start wondering what's caught their attention that's more important than the fall of Egypt.

Quote:

> Kitty Genovese

I'm familiar with the case. A pretty good account of it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

I don't happen to live in a city, but I have visited many of them. Any night in an american city, if you have decent hearing not dulled by constant noise, you will here an attack of some kind. I find I can't sleep in the city because of it. However, I've never been able to locate an attack. If I did, I'm not sure what I could do. Call for help I guess, but I can't call the cops and say "hey, somewhere in this city someones being attacked, within a couple blocks of here I think. There are undoubtedly already cops within a couple blocks of me. In the absence of police, random people will do just as well.

Quote:

What brings about rape? Well obviously there are some hardwiring issues, the rapist's physicality is off kilter and they are willing to act on it, as opposed to recognizing that it is wrong and not following through on it. Maybe they figure they won't get caught, maybe they have poor impulse control, probably a combination of both. Whatever the root cause such behavior must be punished and discouraged.

Depends what you mean by hardwiring. I reject the notion that criminals are "born wrong" which i think is destructive. I'm sure theres nothing physically wrong with their brains, there is something wrong with their attitudes.

I think if you read the profile of the killer, it was clear he needed to be separated from society rather permanently. Dead girls don't reproduce, speaking of evolutionary short circuits. It's worth taking a look at the perp's profile in the wikipedia entry.

Not to stereotype wealthy jews as the sort of people more likely to yell "leave her alone" than to go down with their buddies and get rough and tussle, but I think this level of weakness is also abnormal. We know at least two people knew it was an attack, and while they probably couldnt have stopped it themselves, and would have just gotten killed, they could have alerted others. This is different from a crowd though. A crowd of revolutionaries in not like an upscale neighborhood in the city, no one is sleeping, and most people there are probably ready to get rough and tussle or they wouldn't be in a revolution. Also, hundreds of distinct personality types are going to run into a random situation. This isn't like a dark corner at three AM... Its worth noting that he came back to kill her later, but also, I think then urban psychology is pretty clear here: the door was locked, but no one was at the door, so she couldn't get into her own building. People who saw the attack had done something, they had called the police. This was not a solution, and should probably go on Frem's list of reasons to abolish the police. If there is a police dept, everyone is lulled into a false sense of security. Still, I think it was abnormal behavior to not intervene. I would guess that there was an atmosphere of fear which also led to people calling the cops rather than intervening themselves.

So I'm not tempted to blame the crowd in Egypt, just the perps. I would call the Kitty Genovese onlookers irresponsible, it's not fair to say that they did nothing, but they didn't do the right thing. Sure, from what more of them saw that they could report, its not reportable to say "there's a black man in a white neighborhood at 3am," but its probably something that they recall when asked about it later, because it was memorable, in the same way I still remember random things that I saw in the city, like a man standing on top of a car because a dog was barking at him. Not suspicious, but abnormal enough to stick in your mind. However, for the people who actually saw the attack, of which there were at least two, calling the cops wasn't enough. We don't know, the second guy may have also gone to the scene, because Moseley was gone by that point. The first guy who yelled at him, should have definitely gone down to see if she was okay, but was probably afraid. It looks like Moseley fled after that, so there was nothing to be afraid of, but there's an abnormal psychology of fear. I don't see this as group think.

I tend to find group think comes out of order rather than chaos. I recall a case recently of a woman dying in an emergency room for four hours while people working there walked around her, all having assumed that someone else was handling the case, or one just the other day, of a hospital that wouldn't take in a man who was dying 150 feet away because he was directly outside their property line, and so they weren't legally responsible, and didn't want to be.

Speaking of group think, and order, consider this case: the now infamous yellow dress girl in Iraq. The soldier who shot her knew she was a civilian, and actually knew her, and shot her for sport. That's a very abnormal mind, like Moseley's. What's also wrong with this picture is why we found out about this on wikileaks, rather than from the rest of his unit.

Anyway, I'm sure your right, the gang bangers figured they could get away with it because of the crowd. Thats undoubtedly why they were there.

ETA: sorry, this was longer than I intended, also, if I make a wrong word in a post, or one which seems wrong, it probably is wrong. Both my iPad and the Mac have a nasty habit of replacing words via autocorrrect, and frequently they replace misspelled words or even normal words with other words which are sometimes not even close. I caught two of them here, but I'm bound to miss some. And I don't think its a feature which can be disabled, but if anyone knows how, let me know.

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Thursday, February 17, 2011 5:27 AM

The fact that twenty people DID physically intervene in this case (and they were women, even) makes this not exactly the same situation as Kitty Genovese, and suggests different mechanisms at work.

However, overall, I don't think the two of you disagree that much on this.

Riona seems to be saying see thinks it's a mob (or gang) mentality within the gang that was involved, where one or multiple members decide to cause trouble and harass some seemingly random woman in the chaos. Then the others either join in, don't intervene, or try to hide what was going on/what happened to protect their friends from the consequences of the wrong-doing.

Perhaps she's not blaming the celebrating mob or the chaos created by the mob, but insular mindsets within a close-knit organization such as the gang. The gang members aren't acting so differently from the example of soldiers shooting the civilian girl, but this time, fortunately, there were more people willing to intervene than there were aggressors. There's all kinda of people in this world, and a person can change from moment to moment based on their history and the situation, aspiring to either heroism or villainy.

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Thursday, February 17, 2011 5:28 AM

KANEMAN

I don't believe this story at all. The protesters were non-violent, just watch the news if you don't believe me.

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Thursday, February 17, 2011 5:42 AM

To a degree. When Mubarak sent thugs in disguised as civilians when the military wouldn't intervene, the citizens did fight back (and good for them, too). There were definitely reports of protesters breaking apart sidewalks, picking up the pieces and throwing them, and I think I heard some of them may have been using molotov cocktails.

But as for the celebration itself, it looks like it was fairly peaceful, so maybe. If Logan's story is true, the only explanation I can think of is that the people who assaulted her weren't really celebrators, but troublemakers, either government disruption or just petty criminals.

The only way we'll know for sure is if someone puts up confirmation on youtube. People had phones and cameras in the crowd, I'm assuming if it happened that someone got some evidence.

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Thursday, February 17, 2011 6:10 AM

Byte

Not really disagreeing, just sidestepping to dispel some myths about Kitty Genovese that circulate. It's a local issue because the story is legendary and often held up as a reason why New York sucks. Horrible crime? Absolutely. But less of a judgment on the people of New York as it is often portrayed.

Specifically:

1. the attacker was a serial killer, standard issue, one of the psych majors here can tell me why this happens. But I don't think its a sided effect of New York, its just that there are more people.

2. Riona didn't say this, so I was more stating if for the record, because I've heard it many times as versions where it was an open street the middle of the day and people walked by. It was a back alley at 3 am.

3. The people who witnessed the attack called the police, which wasn't exactly doing nothing. However, if people had less faith in the police, the doctors, teachers, preachers and politicians of this society and more faith in the citizenry, then people would ask each other for help, and things would get done.

4. 20 people saw either Genovese or Moseley, not a murder. Genovese and Moseley were not unusual things to see.

It was more about the incident I was ranting, and nothing against this case or anything Riona said, it was a trigger of a local story and so I had to rant. Sorry ;)

All of that said, Kaneman has a point.

My first suspicion was that the attackers wre themselves govt. forces, police, something like that. Alternatively, they were a gang, or third, it was some lone attacker who got her cornered somewhere out of the way. But why molester her and beat her for a prolonged period and not rape her? Maybe it was an individual Muslim extremist upset at her western dress or something.

As far as video of the incident, I assume that there is a lot of it, but at it will show up on some dark corner of the Internet, and be blocked by YouTube as it is from the news. I suspect the reason for this one is that the media looks after their own, and it will be out kf deference to Lara, who, even if they don't really like her, is one of them. I'm sure they like her, personally, but there are a fair number of stories out there. LA Times even ran this story as sort of "sultry two timing tramp lures lusty horny Muslims to mass rape" which might as well have been their headline for the way they covered the story. But this sort of attitude isn't news for Lara.

You have a point about cell phones, etc. Which I think is going to really end the problem of rape: OMG, being raped now, can't see my attk'r but my phone can! (snap) kthxbye^_^

That said, there were cameras everywhere, she was with a camera crew. Someone who rapes a person with a camera crew is like the guy who robs a donut shop. Nature is selecting them for extinction.

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Thursday, February 17, 2011 11:41 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

UPDATE: CBS Senior Reporter Lara Logan Was Not Raped, Resting At Home

CBS Senior Reporter Lara Logan: This is the latest news update that CBS Senior Reporter Lara Logan is now resting at her Washington, D.C. According to the People magazine report "Logan is now resting at her Washington, D.C.

"The US network said earlier, a senior CBS correspondent is recovering in hospital in the US after she was beaten and sexually assaulted by a mob while covering the Egyptian protests.

According to a Wall Street Journal source, Logan, 39, who is mother to two young children, was not raped.

According to different media sources, CBS Senior Reporter Lara Logan will be released from a hospital today.

The Egyptians did through babies out of incubators. Really.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/8208799-update-cbs-senior-re
porter-lara-logan-is-ok-and-taking-rest-at-home-in-washington-she-was-not-raped

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Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:17 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

It seems that other foreign news reporters have been attacked, as shown through a transcript from Australia's Foreign Corrospondent team

Quote:
CORCORAN: Salma’s Facebook revolutionaries aren’t the only ones here. We set out to meet one of Egypt’s best known opposition figures, Ayman Nour. He’s out there somewhere in the square but before we can make contact, the regime strikes back. Hordes of Mubarak supporters storm the square and all hell breaks loose.

State television demonises the international media for fanning the flames of the revolution. For this pro-Mubarak mob stirred up by the government propaganda, all foreign media are seen to be spies. In reporting this story, dozens of international and Egyptian media workers are bashed, stabbed, tasered and in one case shot dead by pro regime vigilantes. We’re targeted and dragged down a side street.

Well for us the riot ended badly. All members of the Foreign Correspondent team were basically set upon by the mob. I was punched and kicked to the ground. It felt like being at the bottom of a very violent rugby scrum. I lost my wallet, my passport and my phone was also taken. Eventually we were rescued by a café owner who’s brought us here to his café and it’s now battened down against the mob outside.

Back in the square a brutal and at times bizarre clash is waged. Hundreds of protesters are injured, several killed. Trapped by the pro Mubarak mob, we move to another hiding place – an art shop – until the fighting subsides. It was Alaa Abdullah and his brother who saved us.

ALAA ABDULLAH: “I see you get beaten and you had blood. And I tried to protect you and bring you to our place to make sure you calm down and to make sure you are safe”.

As you can see from the above, this is not a black and white situation. Plenty of people are pro the status quo and foreigners are not always welcomed in this scenario.

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Thursday, February 17, 2011 1:42 PM