REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Wisconsin Senate Limits Bargaining by Public Workers - FINALLY !

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, March 18, 2011 07:46
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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Your overstatements are what gets you in trouble. Raptor. “"Unions aren't 'working people'", “literally don't do anything to " earn " their pay”. Both statements are generalizations and untrue. There are lazy employees EVERYWHERE, that is the simple fact; look at statistics about how many CORPORATE employees spend their time on line. I’ve been to our local DMV twice in the past year; each time every single worker was busting ass to deal with the huge crowd of people there...I never saw a single one take a minute off or do anything at their desks but WORK, and work HARD. Again, your need to lump everyone in a category you don’t like into the worst possible characterization is what defeats even points you make which might have some validity.
Quote:

The average employee wastes about 20 percent of the workday. The 2007 Wasting Time Survey by Salary.com, which asked 2,000 employees across all job levels about how they spend their working hours, found employees waste an average of 1.7 hours of an 8.5-hour workday.
http://www.inc.com/news/articles/200707/time.html
Quote:

One third of the employees spend their work-time for non-work related activities. One quarter of the employees waste their time at work because they feel that they are not paid enough for their efforts.
http://blog.cyclope-series.com/2009/07/15/why-do-employees-waste-time-
at-work-and-how-can-employers-stop-them
/
Quote:

Unproductive tasks in the workplace, from Web surfing to watercooler chit-chat, is costing companies $759 billion annually, according to a report released this week by America Online and Salary.com.

In a survey of 10,000 employees, the average worker admits to frittering away 2.09 hours per day, not counting lunch. The number one way they waste time at work is personal Internet use (e.g., email, IM, online polls, interactive games, message boards, chat rooms, etc.). Personal Internet use was cited by 44 percent of respondents as their primary time-wasting activity at work. Socializing with co-workers was the second most popular form of wasting time at work (23 percent of respondents). Conducting personal business, "spacing out," running errands, and making personal phone calls were other popular time-wasting activities in the workplace.

In a survey of 10,000 employees, the average worker admits to frittering away time on the job. The number one way they waste time at work is personal Internet use (e.g., email, IM, online polls, interactive games, message boards, chat rooms, etc.). Personal Internet use was cited by 44 percent of respondents as their primary time-wasting activity at work. Socializing with co-workers was the second most popular form of wasting time at work (23 percent of respondents). Conducting personal business, "spacing out," running errands, and making personal phone calls were other popular time-wasting activities in the workplace.

Look it up. It’s a well-known fact that CORPORATE employees waste a lot of time. To clam it’s only union employees who aren’t producing is a fallacious oversimplification. To state that they’re all “lazy” and don’t “earn their money” is just plain stupid. It’s what you NEED to believe; it’s not the truth.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:26 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
And back in the real world..



Republicans voicing concern over Fannie and Freddie and the looming sub prime crisis, and the Democrats - uniformly - stating there IS no problem, agitated at the mere suggesting of any crisis, and even going so far as to accuse .. yes, you guessed it, RACISM as being behind it all.

Same song, different verse. No matter what the problem, it all comes down to class warfare or racism w/ the Left.



And your century old cry about the little people , being down for the good fight, doesn't apply here. They're in a better position than their private sector contemporaries, and all at the expense of WE THE PEOPLE. There are no 'rich, elitist big corporation fat cats' here, exploiting the workers. The " workers " are exploiting their employers, the citizens to whom they answer.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples money.

And that's what you have here. The unions have held the states over a barrel, w/ the blessing of the Democrats, who use union dues to get re-elected, and then side w/ the unions to feed at the public trough.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "





If anyone can't see the absolute truth in this post...they are either a liar or a liar. Well, possible retarded.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:43 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Odd that not one right-winger here has expressed any outrage over the guy who just got arrested for posting on facebook that he was going to kill the President.

Also, not a bit of outrage from these folks about the right-wing New Hampshire legislator who says we should do away with "defective" people, the sick, the retarded, etc.

And similarly, no outrage expressed over the GOP lawmaker in Kansas who suggested controlling immigration the same way they control feral hogs: by shooting them.

Seems everyone is supposed to police their own and denounce the ugliest among them - unless you're speaking to a "conservative", of course.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill




I'll express my outrage that the guy is late. Should have acted on that two yrs. ago. What a loser that guy is. Let me guess..."little yellow bus boy" always slow.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 10:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


What a shame to see you back, Kane. What, wasn't Raptor getting enough actual "voices" on his side, so he had to resuscitate you? He must have needed an outlet to be nasty again without consequence; indication of frustration, little more.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Replace them with cooperatives. Raise tariffs on cheap-labor imports. Create international unions. Start government-funded loans for replacements. Can think of several things to do. It doesn't take a mental giant.


That all worked so well for Europe...you are correct, it does not take a mental giant to think of alternatives, it does, however, take common sense to know they have not worked anywhere they've been tried.

Co-ops, might as well paint your ass red and name your baby Stalin. I note for the record that co-ops are what has made California the economic powerhouse it is today.

Tariffs, sure lets start a global trade war that will only result in raising consumer prices. And the only work when the businesses move out of the country...what if they move to Tennessee or the Carolinas? Michigan can't put a tariff on Hondas built in Tennessee.

Govt loans, sure subsidize the hell out of businesses that contribute to the party in power. That never goes wrong.

How about you adopt tax and social policies that encourage business and investments in your state? The South is becoming the economic and manufacturing center of this country because of these policies. In other words you look at States that are succeeding and say 'what are they doing that we are not'? If that answer to that question is tax policy...then you can apply your small brain (which is what you said you were working with) to figuring out what that means.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.




Your post is full of contradictions and babble. You say co-ops are what made California the powerhouse it is today, then you say that you have to have tax and social policies to attract businesses.

You ARE aware that California, all by itself, is the 8th largest economy on Earth, right? Yup, good ol' Kommiefornia, the richest, most populous state in the nation, the one where everyone wants to go, with its draconian air quality standards and its penchant for wanting to strangle businesses... only non of that has happened.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:43 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I note for the record that co-ops are what has made California the economic powerhouse it is today.
That's a confusing and fallacious statement...where did you get that impression? Co-ops are only a tiny part of California's economics...and by the way, are doing damned well compared to many other businesses. If you are snarking about "powerhouse", you're wrong. If you are serious that co-ops made a powerhouse, you're still wrong. If you are saying co-ops have been bad for California, again you're wrong.

Let's see...given today's economic climate:
Quote:

Worker-owned co-ops growing.

LAURA MAYORGA of Oakland was about to leave the United States for a trip abroad, but she managed to squeeze in one last visit Thursday to Arizmendi Bakery in Oakland, grabbing a slice of mozzarella, roasted yellow onion and red cabbage pizza. Arizmendi is worthy of a special trip, Mayorga said. "The food is so fresh," she said.

But the bakery, known for its exceptional cheese bread, scones and pizzas, is special for another reason. It belongs to its employees, known as "owner-workers." There are no bosses -- or, more accurately, everyone who works there is the boss. The bakery, along with Berkeley's Cheese Board Collective, the Berkeley Free Clinic and San Francisco's Rainbow Grocery Cooperative, is an example of the 30-year tradition of worker-owned cooperatives in the Bay Area, which has the largest concentration of such companies in the United States. And insiders say the sector is growing, with numerous co-ops opening in the Bay Area over the last five years.

Still more are in the planning stages, with cities including Walnut Creek and Concord seen as "great opportunities," according to a spokesman for the Cheese Board, a Berkeley pizzeria and bakery. Nationally, worker cooperatives are a $400 million business, according to the National Cooperative Business Association. Bay Area worker-owned co-ops generate more than half that amount, said Melissa Hoover, executive director of the San Francisco-based U.S. Federation of Worker Cooperatives.

In the Bay Area, there are two main types of cooperatives: consumer, such as outdoor outfitter REI, and worker-owned. "With a consumer co-op like REI, membership can be extended to anyone who buys its goods and services," Hoover said. Worker-owned cooperative membership is determined by working at the business. Co-op members say the work isn't bad. "I like the variety of working at a co-op," said Darren Korn, who has been a worker-owner at the Oakland Arizmendi location for seven years. Five days a week, Korn rounds dough, spins pizza into pizza shells and builds and bakes pizzas. "While I'm doing that, I'm discussing policy issues with the other members," he said. "You get to know your co-workers very well. It becomes like family," said Korn, who is starting a family of his own, with a baby due this spring. His co-op has 23 workers and generated $2 million in revenue this year, Korn said. (The bakery has three locations -- the two others are in Emeryville and San Francisco -- and each operates independently.)

Worker-owners don't have to worry about what management is thinking, since they are management. But this has its drawbacks, too, Korn said. "You can't just say, 'Screw it, I'll let the boss take care of it,'" he said. "You are the boss." Wages can be another concern. Steve Manning, a worker-owner at the Cheese Board, took home around $38,000 last year -- though he also pocketed a $12,000 bonus because the business made a profit. With worker cooperatives, profits are shared among the employees and also put back into the business. Still, Manning and Korn said worker-owned cooperatives are good places to work. At Arizmendi, employee turnover is very low -- an anomaly in the food industry, Korn said. Indeed, the 30-year-old Rainbow Grocery, which now boasts 250 workers and $40 million yearly revenue, has employees with 10, 15 and even 25 years' tenure. Arizmendi is also an example of how the co-op sector has been picking up steam in the Bay Area over the last few years.

Other worker cooperatives are forming independently. Inkworks Press, a 32-year-old worker-owned union print shop that is also an Alameda County certified green business, spawned an offshoot called Design Action Collective about three years ago. Manning, who was laid off from a corporate job in 2001, said cooperatives are becoming attractive to a growing segment of workers. "The standard corporate model is no longer providing pension plans and other forms of security," he said. "People are realizing they have to take more responsibility themselves, and one of the ways they can do that is by becoming an owner-worker and having a vote."

http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20070103205342340
Quote:

Lingering doubt about the effectiveness of the agricultural cooperatives that serve California farmers has been cleared up by a 12-year study completed by University of California researchers. They found that the 41 co-ops they examined are doing quite well, thank you.

The study identified a few areas of comparison between the two types of receivers that should help growers evaluate performance. The university's Cooperative Extension specialist Shermain Hardesty and postgraduate researcher Vikas Salgia conducted the study of cooperatives operating in four strategic sectors of the state's agricultural economy: fruits and vegetables, dairy, farm supply and grain. Their report was part of California Agriculture, the university's quarterly research magazine for October-December.

"Contrary to popular belief, we found that the overall financial performance of cooperatives was on par with that of similar investor owned firms," the report said.

The profitability ratios of all three grain cooperatives were higher than those of their IOF counterparts.

Fruit and vegetable cooperatives averaged higher profitability levels than the IOF firms in the field, bit it was noticeably cyclical. Co-ops in all sectors had lower debt equity ratios than their IOF competitors.

Producers in the four categories studied can gain helpful data comparing co-ops with the IOFs by studying the tables and graphs included in the report and the extended version available from the lead author.

For example, the fruit and vegetable co-ops averaged less in current assets than their IOF counterparts, but they accounted for a lower use of debt.

While the IOFs in all four sectors showed greater assets than their cooperative cousins, the co-ops had lower debt/equity ratios in all sectors.

Overall, the study found that the financial performance of the co-ops on the West Coast has been comparable to that of the IOFs operating in the same sectors. And the co-ops are continuing to evolve, using flexibility in marketing to the advantage of their members.

The study provides convincing evidence that agricultural cooperatives such as Sunkist, Sunsweet, Sun-Maid and others are serving their members well.

Most of them are poised for even greater success in the future as they continue to promote the economic welfare of agricultural producers on the West Coast.

http://www.freshplaza.com/news_detail.asp?id=13712#SlideFrame_1

What were you saying about co-ops?



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:03 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Its funny to watch Raptor and Niki argue.





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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:00 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Its funny to watch Raptor and Niki argue.









That anyone thinks it is arguing is hilarious....Not even close. He blows her away consistantly with two line posts against her 67 line blather/cut and paste posts.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:03 PM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
What a shame to see you back, Kane. What, wasn't Raptor getting enough actual "voices" on his side, so he had to resuscitate you? He must have needed an outlet to be nasty again without consequence; indication of frustration, little more.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off






I've heard some pretty stupid things(usually from the gay Texan) but my being AUrapts sock-puppet is the lame. Everyone who thinks your an ass is the same person, yep,

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:14 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I don't like the idea of International unions, way too globalization oriented, no thanks, globalization, yuck.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I don't like the idea of International unions, way too globalization oriented, no thanks, globalization
So how do you feel about globalized corporations?

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 8:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Some literally don't do anything to " earn " their pay, so my characterizations were anything but baseless. Pay attention, you might learn something.
But you are willing to punish ALL for the actions of "some"?

Think, you might learn something. Or probably not, since you can't seem to get to step #1.

Really, Rappy, I hope you have a good set of hair because your brains just don't seem to have any other function than being a follicle-support.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 11:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Rap, I have yet to see you post a single fact to back up your claims. And you have gone on to add even MORE asininity to your already 'stellar' record - like this:

"Lower tax rates for Corporations attracts more companies, lowers cost to the customer, and increases employment, as well as taxes collected by more employed citizens."

Is that what makes Alaska, Oklahoma, West Virginia, Alabama, Tennessee, North Dakota, South Dakota, Mississippi, Montana, and Louisiana such economic powerhouses compared to say California, New York or Illinois?

http://www.fa-ir.org/alabama/constitution/Best_worst1.htm

Really?

I think I'm gonna add this to the list of your existing howlers about WMDs, that 'they' don't pay taxes, the economy was ON FIRE! and others.

As for the rest - you DO have a problem understanding what a fact is, don't you? It's coming clear to me that you think if you can find someone who's making any kind of claim, that somehow it 'proves' your 'facts'.

Here ya go then - PROOF that not only does Santa exist, but M&M's walk and talk, they met each other one Christmas, and it was caught on tape:



SEE, I found PROOF! It's a FACT!

At least, it is by your standards.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:47 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Umm, huh-what ?

The IWW is an international union, and nothin they have to say about "globalisation" could be printed in a family magazine...

Siggy makes good point about Corporate "globalization" which in comparison has led to wholesale looting of countries, often with support or backing of a major military force (often ours), sweatshop and/or outright slave labor, exporting waste and/or economic consequences, and incredibly rapacious and stupid policies - case in point, both both illegally overfishing Somalian waters after refusing to recognize any government there (something that in part lead to the piracy problem) AND dumping toxic waste in those waters, often in the same place!
Yeeeaah, that makes me all warm and fuzzy about the results of that stupidity winding up on my dinner plate while a bought-off FDA looks the other way, sure... *sneer*.

As for co-ops, one of the better models for such a thing is also international, Mondragon, which evolved in a sense out of Catalonian Anarchism, something which worked pretty well till every government on the planet saw it as a threat and went after it despite really radical idealogical differences otherwise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

Also worth a note that we're now seeing international collectives of PEOPLE, standing up to and against GOVERNMENTS, if you think there isn't a high degree of communication and support going on between these various movements, think again - the notion of an international union of workers like the IWW, if effective (which it ain't cause certain Gov'ts, including our own, have this habit of shooting IWW members..) would have prevented a lot of say, coca colas misconduct in India, for example.

Where I differ with most union activists, and most anarchists for that matter, is that I believe neither one will ever be any kind of successful without military grade force behind it, at the very minimum as a deterrent - because you need only look as far as wisconsin to see how "effective" peaceful protest is, as they point, laugh and deride, while completely ignoring your safe-to-ignore complicit stupidity.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:03 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
where did you get that impression? Co-ops are only a tiny part of California's economics...and by the way, are doing damned well compared to many other businesses.


Co-ops are a sypmtom, an indicator of a mindset that is best left in the trashbarrel of history.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:06 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
You ARE aware that California, all by itself, is the 8th largest economy on Earth, right? Yup, good ol' Kommiefornia, the richest, most populous state in the nation, the one where everyone wants to go, with its draconian air quality standards and its penchant for wanting to strangle businesses... only non of that has happened.


You are aware that California, all by itself, is drowning is debt an on the verge of economic collapse. Its status is by virtue of its past climate...in the economic sense...and its climate...in the climate sense.

In other words...Ronald Reagan built California...since then its been pretty much downhill.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:31 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh Jezus Kriste, don't give me THAT one! I'm so sick of Reagan having been set up as some kind of saint I could spit! WE know about the REAL Ronald Reagan in this state...let me give you just a taste:
Quote:

As governor of California and president of the United States, he enacted policies that greatly expanded the role and size of government.

As governor, he oversaw the largest tax increase in Californian history. Democratic Governor Jerry Brown cut back the tax rate when he came to office.

http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Ronald_Reagan
Quote:

Reagan's 1967 tax increase was among the first of a long series of significant departures from a right-wing agenda that continued throughout his governorship. Seven weeks earlier, Reagan's first budget had exceeded Pat Brown's last one by nearly one-half billion dollars, instead of staying the course by inaugurating a policy of "squeeze, cut and trim" as promised. He raised sales taxes from three to five cents on the dollar; the maximum income tax from seven to ten percent; distilled liquor taxes from $1.50 to $2.00 per gallon; and cigarette taxes from three cents to ten cents per pack.
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5816845/Governor-Reagan-a-reap
praisal-Ronald.html


He totally destroyed our once-great educational system:
Quote:

While running for the governorship, Mr. Reagan demanded a legislative investigation of alleged Communism at UC Berkeley. Once elected, Mr. Reagan set the educational tone for his administration by:

a. calling for an end to free tuition for state college and university students,

b. annually demanding 20% across-the-board cuts in higher education funding,

c. repeatedly slashing construction funds for state campuses

d. engineering the firing of Clark Kerr, the popular President of the University of California, and

e. declaring that the state "should not subsidize intellectual curiosity

He called protesting students "brats," "freaks," and "cowardly fascists." And when it came to "restoring order" on unruly campuses he observed, "If it takes a bloodbath, let's get it over with. No more appeasement!" Several days later four Kent State students were shot to death. In the aftermath of this tragedy Mr. Reagan declared his remark was only a "figure of speech." He added that anyone who was upset by it was "neurotic."

Governor Reagan not only slashed spending on higher education. Throughout his tenure as governor Mr. Reagan consistently and effectively opposed additional funding for basic education. This led to painful increases in local taxes and the deterioration of California's public schools. Ronald Reagan left California public education worse than he found it. A system that had been the envy of the nation when he was elected was in decline when he left. Nevertheless, Mr. Reagan's actions had political appeal, particularly to his core conservative constituency, many of whom had no time for public education.

http://www.newfoundations.com/Clabaugh/CuttingEdge/Reagan.html

What he did to our health system and mental-health system was unconscionable!
Quote:

Is it any wonder that California seems to have all of the crazy homeless people? State mental hospitals were taken away by Governor Reagan in the seventies, and federal mental health programs were later taken away by President Reagan in the eighties.

When Ronald Reagan was governor of California he systematically began closing down mental hospitals, later as president he would cut aid for federally-funded community mental health programs. It is not a coincidence that the homeless populations in the state of California grew in the seventies and eighties. The people were put out on the street when mental hospitals started to close all over the state.

Seeing an increase in crime, and brutal murders by Herb Mullin, a mental hospital patient, the state legislature passed a law that would stop Reagan from closing even more state-funded mental health hospitals. (Comment on this article: “Recently I saw a President Reagan stamp on correspondence from a homeless shelter to which I donate and felt physically ill. If Reagan hadn’t shut down all of those mental hospitals I wonder how many of the people that use that shelter would be getting treatment and hopefully getting better instead of living on the streets endangering themselves and possibly others.”)

http://www.dailynugget.com/2004/06/ronald-reagan-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

There’s so much more, but it’s not worth it. He trashed this state. Yes, he had a good environmental record while Governor, but we’re guessing that was politically motivated, this being California, because look at his record the minute he became President! So while I thank him for the good things he did to our state environmentally, the harm he did to the COUNTRY’s environment far outweighs it.

How I wish you righties who have put Reagan on such a pedestal would learn the FACTS about him; those who didn’t live through his reign as both governor and president have bought into completely false rhetoric where he’s concerned. It really pisses me off every time I hear him aluded to as some Hero, when those saying so have NO idea about the truth--nor do they WANT to!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:52 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, by the way...at a time of economic crisis in the entire country, do bear in mind that we just had The Govenator; we can look to HIM in large part for our current condition. Pre-Govenator, in 2003, we had $27.6 billion in general obligation bonds and a total of $23.2 billion in authorized but unissued bonds. We now have $77.8 billion in outstanding general obligation bonds - nearly triple the amount of seven years ago - and an additional $42.8 in authorized but unissued bonds! In fact, along with its overall debt burden, California's debt payments tripled under Schwarzenegger, from $1.8 billion paid in the fiscal year ending June 30, 2004, to a staggering $5.5 billion in the current fiscal year ending June 30, 2011.

Ahnold is a Republican, remember?

Jerry Moonbeam also has two very important things going for him. In the last election we FINALLY got rid of that damned 2/3-majority-to-pass-a-budget albatross, and another measure passed which means redistricting will now be in the hands of a citizens commission, instead of state legislators. Previously legislators gerrymandered districts so they got re-elected; ergo they could be uncompromising (another contribution to gridlock). Not anymore!

Don't worry too much about us; our numbers look huge because we ARE huge financially. We'll find a way, but it won't be with the help of Republicans. We'll see if Moonbeam can pull us out of the fire. Couldn't be much worse than the Govenator...OR Reagan!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, March 17, 2011 5:29 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"You are aware that California, all by itself, is drowning is debt ..."

Not as much as you think ...


Here's where the magic of percentages comes in. California's budget will have a shortfall of $14 billion - certainly a large number. But that is only a 14% shortfall, on par with that of Alabama and Colorado. Nevada's small $1 billion shortfall is 45%. Louisiana's $1.6b shortfall is 20%. TEXAS, A 'TEA PARTY' STATE AND AN OIL AND GAS PRODUCING AREA THAT SHOULD BE THRIVING IS FACING A 32% SHORTFALL. The economy has hit MANY states hard, but especially those with thriving real estate markets and industrial sectors, and oddly but especially Nevada, and Texas, with 2 of the 3 highest percent shortfalls of all.

States with Projected FY2012 Gaps
FY12 Projected Shortfall
Alabama $.98 billion 13.9%
Arizona $.97 billion 11.5%
California $14 billion 14.3%
Colorado $.99 billion 13.8%
Connecticut $3.2 billion 18.0%
Delaware $.21 billion 6.3%
DC $.32 billion 5.2%
Florida $3.6 billion 14.9%
Georgia $1.3 billion 7.9%
Hawaii $.41 billion 8.2%
Idaho $.09 billion 3.9%
Illinois $4.9 billion 14.6%
Indiana $.27 billion 2.0%
Iowa $.19 billion 3.5%
Kansas $.49 billion 8.8%
Kentucky $.78 billion 9.1%
Louisiana $1.6 billion 20.7%
Maine $.44 billion 16.1%
Maryland $1.4 billion 10.7%
Massachusetts $1.8 billion 5.7%
Michigan $1.3 billion 5.9%
Minnesota $3.8 billion 23.6%
Mississippi $.63 billion 14.1%
Missouri $.70 billion 9.1%
Nebraska $.31 billion 9.2%
Nevada $1.5 billion 45.2%
New Hampshire DK na
New Jersey $10.5 billion 37.4%
New Mexico $.45 billion 8.3%
New York $10.0 billion 18.7%
North Carolina $2.4 billion 12.7%
Ohio $3.0 billion 11.0%
Oklahoma $.50 billion 9.4%
Oregon $1.8 billion 25.0%
Pennsylvania $4.2 billion 16.4%
Rhode Island $.33 billion 11.3%
South Carolina $877 billion 10.9%
Tennessee DK Na
Texas $13.4 billion 31.5%
Utah $.39 billion 8.2%
Vermont $.18 billion 16.3%
Virginia $2.0 billion 13.1%
Washington $2.5 billion 16.2%
Wisconsin $1.8 billion 12.8%
States Total $112 billion 17.6%




... and California has budget problems due to a few very SPECIFIC reasons.

1) Enron and the tens of billions of dollars ripped out of the economy fraudulently and in clear violation of the law - while Bush's cronies stood back and colluded with the economic rape of California:

"The price hikes caused the bankruptcy and near-collapse of the two large utilities, leading to the layoff of thousands of workers and the wiping out of many small investors. In addition, state officials imposed severe budget cuts due to a rise in energy costs from $7 billion in 1999 to $27 billion in 2000, and after laying out $6 billion to buy daily power and another $40 billion to secure long-term contracts and stabilize the state’s energy supply.

Several weeks after the memos were written outlining the company’s strategy to manipulate California’s market, Enron CEO Kenneth Lay—the largest single contributor to Bush’s political career—successfully prompted the Bush administration to appoint free-market advocate Pat Wood as the head of the Federal Energy Regulation Commission. Once in place, Wood resisted the implementation of price controls for months while the crisis spun out of control.

At the time California’s Democratic governor and senators requested federal intervention to hold down the cost of electricity and charged that energy providers were manipulating the market to boost their profits. According to the New York Times, Senator Diane Feinstein said she tried “three or four times” to speak with Bush about the state’s crisis but the president refused to meet with her."


The state is STILL paying off those debts.

2) The California constitution which demands that a surplus in one year CANNOT be held over to cushion lean years.

3) Prop 13 has strangled all levels of budget in the state.

And last but not least

4) The economy has hit state budgets hard, even including low tax states (see above).
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=711


Anyway, chew on that if you can Hero. Get back to me later.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:38 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I really like local co ops. Is the new governor's real last name Moonbeam? That's fun.

Huzzah for St. Patrick's day, nobody forget now.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, March 18, 2011 3:35 AM

FREMDFIRMA



I have some financial stake in a local one, matter of fact.
http://www.michigansugar.com/about/index.php

This for a couple reasons, initially because of exploitive and slave labor conditions within the cane sugar industry, and more recently because the prevalence of toxic, mercury contaminated HFCS in goddamn near everything...

I love how "health" advocates whinged that saturated fat was so evil and shoved us towards "healthy" partially-hydrogenated crap, then suddenly don't wanna talk about it when you bring that up - and how evil sugar was, landing us in the deathspin of "healthy" HFCS and Aspartame, the latter of which seems to have quietly sneaked out the back door while everybody studiously looks away as hard as they can...
I'm glad that it's gone, mind you - but the fact that those who told us it was better for us than sugar get yet-another-free-pass pisses me off.

Anyhow, these guys also consider Monsanto to be the spawn of satan, and regard them accordingly, something which I think is a very wise decision since between terminator seed and cross contamination in an effect to lock up farming the way the RIAA/MPAA has tried to lock up media, they risk the destruction entire of our freakin biosphere, think on THAT before you do business with them.
And think even harder when an escalating set of mysterious acts of sabotage start happening to your crops right AFTER you refuse to do business with them - care to guess who wound up arranging security for them after that ?

I also have some interest in a honey producing co-op owned by Hutterites, but no direct involvement since as a Vajrayana they consider me a "corrupting influence" theologically - so all our trade is by proxy and indirect, I do reccommend them as a supplier for mead producers though.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 18, 2011 7:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Is the new governor's real last name Moonbeam?
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha...Riona just gave away her age, neener, neener! No, doll, his name is Jerry Brown. He was our governor back in '75-'83, and we just elected him again, thirty years later, to try and clean up the messes left by the Republicans in this state.
Quote:

When Jerry Brown — California’s once and future leader — won back his old job, he brought with him more than questions about his age (71) and his record of political service (40 years and counting).

He brought Moonbeam with him, too.

For the uninitiated, ‘Governor Moonbeam’ became Mr. Brown’s intractable sobriquet, dating back to his days as governor between 1975 and 1983, when his state led the nation in pretty much everything — its economy, environmental awareness and, yes, class-A eccentrics.

The nickname was coined by Mike Royko, the famed Chicago columnist, who in 1976 said that Mr. Brown appeared to be attracting “the moonbeam vote,” which in Chicago political parlance meant young, idealistic and nontraditional.

The term had a nice California feel, and Mr. Royko eventually began applying it when he wrote about the Golden State’s young, idealistic and nontraditional chief executive. He found endless amusement — and sometimes outright agita — in California’s oddities, calling the state “the world’s largest outdoor mental asylum.”

“If it babbles and its eyeballs are glazed,” he noted in April 1979, “it probably comes from California.”

But as any New Age Californian can tell you, such hate is probably cover for a deeper love. And so it was with Mr. Royko, who after many vicious gibes at Mr. Brown’s expense offered an outright apology to the governor, and spent years trying to erase the moniker.

In a 1991 column in The Chicago Tribune, he called the label, an “idiotic, damn-fool, meaningless, throw-away line,” and pleaded with people to stop using it.

“Enough of this ‘Moonbeam’ stuff,” Mr. Royko concluded. “I declare it null, void and deceased.”

It didn’t take. Mr. Royko died in 1997, and when Mr. Brown declared his candidacy last week, most, if not all, press accounts referred to his “Moonbeam” past. (This reporter included.)

Exactly when Mr. Royko first crowned Mr. Brown “Governor Moonbeam” is unclear. Mr. Royko said he didn’t even remember when he first landed on the phrase. He “was stringing some words together one evening to earn his day’s pay,” he wrote.

But the nickname accompanied Governor Brown as he declared his fascination with outer space, proposed that California launch its own space satellite and made headlines dating the rock star Linda Ronstadt.

The nickname became a whipping stick for Mr. Royko. And he flailed away as Mr. Brown was trying to convince fellow Democrats that he’d be a good presidential candidate. (His 1980 campaign slogan was “protect the earth, serve the people and explore the universe.”)

Mr. Royko’s epiphany came in 1980, at the Democratic National Convention, where Mr. Royko said that the best speech had come from — you guessed it — Governor Moonbeam.

“I have to admit I gave him that unhappy label,” Mr. Royko wrote. “Because the more I see of Brown, the more I am convinced that he has been the only Democrat in this year’s politics who understands what this country will be up against.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/weekinreview/07mckinley.html

There you have it. It's a term of affection for us old timers...the biggest laugh of the last campaign was when his opponent, may she rot in hell, put out an ad saying something about "40 years ago California was a great state" and she'd bring it back to that. Jerry Brown was Governor 40 years ago, and yes, it was great then! I think his campaign actually USED her ad, it was hysterical.

Dunno if Moonbeam can get us back on our feet, but he’s got some stuff on his side, so we’re hoping. Thanx Kiki for clarifying that stuff, people often just don’t “get it”, CA being what, the 8th largest economy in the world or something? They don’t grasp the perspective...and oh, gawd, I’ve been working for YEARS to forget the Enron debacle, now you brought it all back. Speaking of which, what do you think of the new “smart meters”? ;o)

...and of course that fucking FUCKING Prop 13. That truly WAS “moonbeam” mentality and it’s actually rather amazing we managed to stay solvent as long as we did with that fucking albatross around our state’s neck! Yes, it’s kept Jim’s and my property taxes down for decades, but it’s the single most stupid thing I think our state ever did!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, March 18, 2011 7:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, much as I love it, enough threadjacking about California. Did anyone notice:
Quote:

March 18 (Bloomberg) -- A Wisconsin state judge temporarily blocked a law that would strip government employee unions of most of their collective-bargaining power.

At a hearing today in Madison, Wisconsin, Circuit Court Judge Maryann Sumi granted a temporary restraining order to block publication of the measure signed into law by Governor Scott Walker on March 11. Publication gives the law full force and effect.

The legislation championed by Walker, a first-term Republican, requires annual recertification votes for union representation and makes voluntary the payment of union dues. The measure exempts firefighters and police officers. Democrats and organized labor called the bill an attack on workers. Opposition to the legislation sparked almost four weeks of mass protests around and inside the Capitol.

Dane County District Attorney Ismael R. Ozanne, acting on complaints by three other public officials, had asked the court to bar publication. He said a group of lawmakers had violated a state open-meetings law in gathering to craft compromise legislation that was then passed.

The case is State of Wisconsin Ex Rel. Ozanne v. Fitzgerald, 11cv1244, Dane County, Wisconsin, Circuit Court (Madison).

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-03-18/wisconsin-judge-blocks-law
-curbing-state-workers-unions.html


Heeere we go...

This is the single best thing the Republicans have done for us in AGES...it's solidifying working people around the country, bringing in tons of money to elect Dems, and has started recall campaigns of Republican governors in several states. I never dreamed it would be so wonderfully galvanizing, but it's great!

From the bottom of my heart I want to thank you guys who convinced the right they had the power to do whatever they wanted and encouraged them to believe the time had come to make their moves...the result has been just plain wonderful and may help salvage what's left of Democracy, at least in part, maybe, hopefully...

Gawd bless the unions and working people; they seem to be the first force that DIDN'T cave under this current insanely-cemented ideological mentality, and they appear to have the power to fight back. Kewl...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, March 18, 2011 7:46 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Well, of COURSE we were gonna ambuscade it on the legalities, it ain't over yet, not by a bloody half - it's just that with slobbering jackboots and their sickpuppies on an endless circle jerk about it, I was holding off sayin anything cause...
Well, by now you of all people know how *I* work, wait till they're all fat happy and stupid and BLAM, drop it on them like an acme anvil and feast upon their tears of misery as they flee back under the rocks from whence they came.

Oh, and..
Quote:

“If it babbles and its eyeballs are glazed,” he noted in April 1979, “it probably comes from California.”

They say that like it's a bad thing ?
LMAO!
As true now as it ever was.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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