Question for the car geeks by dreamtrove

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Question for the car geeks

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Saturday, March 19, 2011 10:49
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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:21 PM

I'm considering a Prius purchase. Does it matter which Prius I get? Ultimately, I want to convert it to run electric for most purposes.

I had an idea, which was, these Prius batteries, which go used with a street price of around 500 and a decent life, why couldn't one just link a line of them, stick 'em in the trunk, and charge them with a plug in?

Or stick a big old solar panel on a luggage rack.

Just thoughts for the distant future, but I want to get a car that might support these kinds of mods.

Thoughts?

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:27 PM

USBROWNCOAT

Not a car geek, but I am still a bit shy of getting a battery operated car. The trouble we have with these cell phone batteries(disposing) is one of the enviromental shames on this globe. I think the last thing we need are four hundred pound batteries in the ground.

That being said, the gas mileage is insane, so if you hate the world, love poison leeching into the ground, and are selfish bye a Prius.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:35 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by USBrowncoat:
Not a car geek, but I am still a bit shy of getting a battery operated car. The trouble we have with these cell phone batteries(disposing) is one of the enviromental shames on this globe. I think the last thing we need are four hundred pound batteries in the ground.

That being said, the gas mileage is insane, so if you hate the world, love poison leeching into the ground, and are selfish bye a Prius.

Actually, I've now read several reports from consumer reports and other reviewers and testers, and all conclude that the prius battery does not depreciate noticeably with reuse, it seems generally agreed that it will long outlast the car. The fate of prius batteries from dead prii seems to be to be sold to other prii to boost their range.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:42 PM

USBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Originally posted by USBrowncoat:
Not a car geek, but I am still a bit shy of getting a battery operated car. The trouble we have with these cell phone batteries(disposing) is one of the enviromental shames on this globe. I think the last thing we need are four hundred pound batteries in the ground.

That being said, the gas mileage is insane, so if you hate the world, love poison leeching into the ground, and are selfish bye a Prius.

Actually, I've now read several reports from consumer reports and other reviewers and testers, and all conclude that the prius battery does not depreciate noticeably with reuse, it seems generally agreed that it will long outlast the car. The fate of prius batteries from dead prii seems to be to be sold to other prii to boost their range.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

Sooner or later you have to put a thousand pound battery in your land fill, or even worse someone elses. Modern cars. Not so much. They get crushed, melted and recycled. 100% except the 20 LB battery. Just saying.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 4:39 PM

DREAMTROVE

Whatever. I'm looking to buy a car, not get into a political debate.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 2:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Best bet is most likely this: Buy the newest, lowest-mileage Prius you can afford. The batteries don't always outlast the car - my UPS driver also delivers to the Toyota dealership, and at least once a month he's got a Prius battery pack on his truck, so they do go bad at least occasionally.

As for the conversion stuff, no idea.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:59 AM

DREAMTROVE

I was counting on you. Hmm. The first part I actually could figure out for myself ;)

Liberal blogs assure me that if you get a Prius, this happens:

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 6:55 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm considering a Prius purchase.

Why necessarily a Prius? Would a Honda Insight or larger Ford Fusion Hybrid possibly suit you better? Lots of Hybrids out there now, and the Prius might not be the best fit for you. List your requirements and look for the best match.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:13 AM

DREAMTROVE

If it's a Prius, someone else pays for it. That fits my requirements best.

If I were a rich man, I'd get a Tesla Roadster. Or perhaps a three masted schooner. Then crew it with the cast of Riverdance ;)

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 8:52 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I couldn't tell ya, but we beat you to the punch with the solar panel, lol...

We're going to greymarket a VW Polo Bluemotion and convert it to a hybrid running on SVO, and one of the first mods we came up with was mounting a solar panel on the roof, cause every little bit helps, and it's so goddamn intuitive to be obvious, innit ?

The regenerative brakes are gonna be a bitch though, apparently the Polo doesn't come with em and the refit (as opposed to built-with) is going to be all manner of hassle.

We do have the target Prius, well, a pair of them, one was rear ended and the battery is no good, the other has a good battery but the front end is completely smooshed since some asshat backed a truck over it - right down we're tossing funds in the jar to GET the VW Bluemotion though.
Will let you know how it goes.

Mikey's contacts would know more about fiddling with a Prius than mine would at this time, right now we're still poking it with sticks like demented apes trying to figure out how to get one apart without breaking anything.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 8:56 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh, also, Re: Plug in Electrics.
I had a rather unpleasant discussion a few days ago with someone planning to buy one, pointing out the fact that way too damn much of Michigans electrical power comes from coal, and just because you remove the responsibility from your tail pipe and kick it up the line to the power plant, you are STILL as responsible as the rest of us for that acid-rain, maybe even more so, because you end up burning coal instead of gasoline, and for a lower efficiency with more pollution than you would have if you bought a fucking pickup truck.

He really, REALLY didn't like what I was telling him...

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 3:32 PM

HARDWARE

No experience with a Prius, although I did drive an Altima hybrid for a week. Very cool, lower economy on the highway than around town, which is odd, but still a cool car.

All things being equal you should buy the oldest Prius with the lowest miles for the lowest price.

But scout around Prius owner's forums to find out which years, if any, had gremlins.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:20 PM

DREAMTROVE

Thanks, good tips.

I know why performance degenerates on the highway, because I've been trawling the hybrid forums all day: The electric motor doesn't have a lot of oomph by itself, so on big hills or high speeds it relies on a belt from the generator for drive boost, which means you're running off of gas. The 2010 Prius apparently has no belt, so I guess it has a more powerful electric motor in it.

Anyway, it's moot point here, no highways, and I wouldn't take 'em anyway. Highways have lots of things I don't like: really nasty crashes that clearly no one walked away from, trucks, and cop cars.

All the same, country roads take me home, and everywhere else. I'll probably get better mileage because on these roads the turns are so sharp you really can't do 55 unless you have a really nice car like a datsun b210 or morgan +4, or a lotus super seven, that would do. But try doing that in your basic ford or chevy and your back end is spinning out into the ditch.

Frem,

Actually, the inefficiency of the internal combustion engine is so severe that you're getting very little of that power, not that I give a damn about the carbon footprint. I want two things: 1) to not pay a hundred bucks just to drive somewhere, and 2) the freedom to take absolutely nowhere roads without a stop. We have in NY the Adirondacks an area the size of wales, with not one gas station. You can really panic driving around here if you make a wrong turn, because if you run out of gas, it's a very long walk to anywhere. Of course, same thing in most of the state at night, because off the highway, there aren't 24 hour stops.

But the use of electrics in terms of what they drain from the grid is low, and getting lower all the time. If I would I'd get a tesla, or build something like it. A little solar NEV roadster, but build it on a decent chasis, like one of the above mentioned.

ETA: And, oh yeah, perhaps the best car ever: Good old VW Bug.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, March 18, 2011 1:45 AM

HARDWARE

One more thought, the solar panel just makes good sense. It's raining soup and we are standing around with forks. The top spin on that is that solar panels and the battery pack for the Prius are epically massive polluters to produce. I understand that you are doing this to economize on gas, not save the planet. Thank you for not adhering to the tranzi line on the Prius.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, March 18, 2011 3:45 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yeah, the conventional panels do produce a lot of waste to create, something I find damn well winceworthy - but we don't use those, I dunno the supplier offhand but Geekfarm trends toward a film-type panel which is supposedly less wasteful to produce, and handier because it's lighter and more flexible.

The Solar Impulse HB uses at least some of those, I think, which is pretty cool.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38142746/ns/us_news-environment/

Not so cool is DARPA blowing $89 Million in taxpayer dosh for their own version, loaded with spy equipment no doubt soon to be pointed at us, also scheduled for full testing in 2013 - which given Govt contracting means, 2023 at a cost of about five times that for half the performance.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 18, 2011 4:59 AM

DREAMTROVE

Hardware,

Yes, I'm looking for a car. The fuel cost of creating the vehicle itself is the most polluting thing that happens. A fuel efficient car is a convenience for the driver, not the planet. I often take the conventional green car arguments the way you do: It's like saying "I'm buying a gun because I'm a great humanitarian." No, you're buying a gun to see that you and yours don't die.

BTW, this is a great line:

Quote:
It's raining soup and we are standing around with forks.

Frem,

What will help solar panels is mass production. Ironically, the best thing for this lately has been the utterly wasteful projects of the Chinese govt. They have a pipe dream that there can be such a thing as a "solar power plant" and so they are producing and buying tons of the stuff. The result is that solar material is evolving to a state where you can just spray the stuff on anything, and collect electrons. I just read an article about a "bio-layer" surrounding the solar cell. It looks like a biological cell wall rather than bio-solar, but the efficiency is greatly improved. I think in a decade or so we will be seeing "solar paint" which just conducts electricity to the metal it's attached to. At that point, someone will have to make a car that is made of many disconnected pieces of metal with insulators, because as one piece of metal, someone moron will build the thing and we'll see another moron glued to the hood, trying to open it while running

Nice plane

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, March 18, 2011 7:13 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
because as one piece of metal, someone moron will build the thing and we'll see another moron glued to the hood, trying to open it while running

Ah yes, the wonderfully darwinistic power of DC voltage...

Reminds me of my test for spark while I was still fixing scooter engines.
"Here, hold this a moment."
"Okay."
*CRANK*
"Yeeeoww!"
"Well, you've got spark..."

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 18, 2011 7:20 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Has any one else noticed that brake pads, and rotors, dont last very long anymore?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, March 18, 2011 7:50 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Umm, I drive a freakin ALERO...

You know, the car with the terminal brake defect which chews up the rotors within 2000mi no matter what they're made of ?

Count thyself fortunate!

-F

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Friday, March 18, 2011 9:42 AM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Has any one else noticed that brake pads, and rotors, dont last very long anymore?

Heavier vehicles with larger wheels. The larger the wheel, the longer the lever inertia has to work with to grind away your rotors and drums.

Vehicles are much heavier than they used to be. Compare the curb weight of the VW Bug with the New Beetle. My '03 Dodge pickup tilts the Toledos at 6000 pounds. My '83 Dodge pickup weight in a shade over 3000.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, March 18, 2011 9:47 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I thought it was because they were building the rotors and the breaks out of less-useful materials.

I really shouldn't have to replace my rotors and brakes everytime I get an oil change. (Practically).

Just saying.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, March 18, 2011 4:11 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
If it's a Prius, someone else pays for it.

If they'll spring for a new one, then wait for a while. Toyota is expecting to come out with a plug-in version sometime in 2011.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:23 AM

DREAMTROVE

Yeah, no such luck. Actually it doesn't have to be a prius, any hybrid I think is okay.

Any thoughts on Honda insight?

Or other ideas?

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:06 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Any thoughts on Honda insight?

Car & Driver said the Insight is more like a real car you'd want to drive and less like a transportation module than the Prius.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 10:49 AM

DREAMTROVE

Well, that makes sense, it's 1800 lbs, which is about right for a car. The Prius weighs 2 tons.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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