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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

One of the things that makes the study of history, especially of our founding fathers, so terminally boring is in fact the whitewashing of their flaws and resultant deification.

I mean, come on, Ben Franklin was a damn party animal, mad scientist, master of espionage AND got more ass than a toilet seat - he was like James Bond and Q all rolled into one...

Perfect people are fucking boring.

-F

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Rappy, the difference between you and happy shiny flawed people is that the flawed people are those that either overcome or work around their disabilities. For you, it's your power of delusion, which overcomes plain-as-day facts. Feel free to start working on that disability any time!

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Why are you addressing me ? I haven't even replied in this thread yet, until now.

???


And what are you even talking about ? Why are you fabricating a contrary position on an issue I've not even commented on in the first place ?

Isn't overcoming and working around pretty much the same thing ? Under what context are you even having this 'debate' with yourself, and why are you trying to make me take an opposing side. What am I opposing ?

What delusion are you even talking about ?

Life is full of obstacles, and we all deal w/ them every day.




( On a side, note, I kinda like that REM song, Shiny Happy People. Many hard core REM fans hate it, but I think it's a fun song. I can't help it. I'm pretty sure it has something to do w/ Kate Pierson, adding her talents to the song. )

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
( On a side, note, I kinda like that REM song, Shiny Happy People. Many hard core REM fans hate it, but I think it's a fun song. I can't help it. I'm pretty sure it has something to do w/ Kate Pierson, adding her talents to the song. )

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Originally posted by SignyM:...

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Forgetting something ?

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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Forgetting something ?

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Er... am I?

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Funny, but I thought I saw your post before I posted. In fact, it was "your" post that caused me to reply. Maybe I'm so good I can see the future?

I prolly thought Wulf's post was yours. For some strange reason you, Wulf, Kaneman and Kaneman's various sock puppets tend to blur together. Sorry if I mistook you.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Really? Why would I be thinking about a deluded little man? Add that to your list delusions, thanks.

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Pity would be no more
If we did not make somebody poor
And Mercy no more could be
If all were as happy as we.

And mutual fear brings peace,
Till the selfish loves increase;
Then Cruelty knits a snare,
And spreads his baits with care.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Funny, but I thought I saw your post before I posted. In fact, it was "your" post that caused me to reply. Maybe I'm so good I can see the future?

I prolly thought Wulf's post was yours. For some strange reason you, Wulf, Kaneman and Kaneman's various sock puppets tend to blur together. Sorry if I mistook you.

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That's pretty weak, even for you.

Sounds to me like you I'm in your head. Wonder why.

Huh.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Who defines what 'greed' is, and at what point do you have the right to FORCE another to act or 'give up' a portion of what they have to those who did not work for it ?

The 2nd part, acquisition " by any means possible " isn't what i believe in at all. First, we live in a society which is based on the rule of law, not of men.

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There's room for anyone to succeed, just not everyone.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
That war that you support in Iraq? You took from me to pay for it. You stole from me thousands of dollars of MY money to pay for the murders of hundreds of thousands of innocents, and you did this by force, and by law. And you never uttered a word against it.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Bush went to Congress and got approval for that action.

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Documented civilian deaths from violence, Iraq Body Count – 2003 through October 10, 2010: 98,380–107,369 recorded and 15,114 new deaths added from the Iraq War Logs

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
The numbers are fairly irrelevant, and not really the point here.

But Kwicko's numbers don't seem very wrong to me. I don't earn much, but I pay at least 750 in taxes a year and I don't get much return. Over ten years, even as low as 15% of that will add up to over a thousand.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:

I usually skip your little love spats here but the words "socialism" next to "redistribution of wealth" caught my eye, because it's a common liberal fallacy, touted by John McCain when he was trying too hard to elect Obama.

Here, however, Mike is right, this is the only kind of distribution of wealth that actually happens in socialism: from the people to the elite.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Bush went to Congress and got approval for that action.

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That action being the use of physical force to take Kwicko's money and spend it on killing people he doesn't want to kill.

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Just because Congress approves something doesn't mean force wasn't involved. Congress also approved the tax code and public assistance.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Mike is wrong.

He said " thousands " of his $ went to fund the Iraq war. Even over 10 years, I doubt that much of his tax $ went exclusively to the Defense Dept.

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And he also said that "100,000's " died via his fundung. Nonsense.

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That war that you support in Iraq? You took from me to pay for it. You stole from me thousands of dollars of MY money to pay for the murders of hundreds of thousands of innocents, and you did this by force, and by law. And you never uttered a word against it.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

This falls under the same category as a few killed by the NOPD = 5,000 black males shot in the head by the National Guard, and then their bodies being dumped into a swamp.



Claiming that anyone's tax $$'s went to " murdering 100's of thousands of innocents " is patently absurd. If those lives really DO mean anything, then there's no need to inflate the number of ACTUAL deaths to cartoonish levels. It serves no legitimate purpose, what so ever, and actually takes away from what ever point that's trying to be made.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Claiming that anyone's tax $$'s went to " murdering 100's of thousands of innocents " is patently absurd.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Kwickie -

The day you and the truth are introduced to each other, will be a very special day indeed.

You claim that your tax $$ was spent in the murder of 100's of thousands of Iraqis. Unless you paid for al Qaeda, you're a fucking idiot and a liar.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
...Did you miss that was the Iraqi CIVILIAN bodycount from WIKIPEDIA? Apparently from 2003 to 2010 it IS approximately in the 100,000 range.

But seriously, nevermind. Some arguments aren't worth having.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
...Did you miss that was the Iraqi CIVILIAN bodycount from WIKIPEDIA? Apparently from 2003 to 2010 it IS approximately in the 100,000 range.

But seriously, nevermind. Some arguments aren't worth having.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
But only a fraction of those deaths are the result of the US's collateral damage, and NONE of them were targeted ( murdered ) by our military.

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Terrorist bombers targeting civilians, THAT is who murdered, not the US military.

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http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/plos-2011/

The most indiscriminate effects on women and children in Iraq were from unknown perpetrators firing mortars (DWI = 79) and using non-suicide vehicle bombs (DWI = 54), and from Coalition air attacks (DWI = 69).

(and this)

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pme
d.1000415

The highest average number of civilians killed per event in which a civilian died were in Unknown perpetrator suicide bombings targeting civilians (19 per lethal event) and Coalition aerial bombings (17 per lethal event).

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And 100,000 is not multiples of that number. You can't intellectually state that if there's 'near' 100,000 casualties, that that's the same as several 100,000. It's beyond inane.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Sorry, but such 'body count' polls are dubious, at best.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I don't accept the estimates of deaths attributed directly to US action,

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A unit of 100,000 x 2 or 3, minimum , would meet the requirement for Kwickie's remarks to hold true.

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