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Originally posted by RionaEire:
Ariel is a planet in Firefly too.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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A woman who fired a shot to keep police at bay surrendered early this morning, ending a more than 10-hour standoff on the city's west side.

Children's Protective Services staffers were trying to serve a writ to remove the woman's daughter from the home on the 2600 block of Blaine about 5:35 p.m. Thursday, police said.

The woman, who hadn't been identified, had stopped giving medication to her teenage daughter, said community activist Malik Shabazz. He said the mother believed the medication was harming her daughter.

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The standoff started after Child Protective Services arrived at the home on Blaine, near Linwood, at about 5:30 p.m. to take custody of the 13-year-old girl. Detroit police officers kicked in a side door and were about to kick in another, when the mother shot through a wall at them, police said.

The standoff lasted for hours, ending peacefully at about 4:45 a.m. today when the mother surrendered, police said.

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I believe that parents need support when they have a child with such issues, I don't think letting them suffer alone is the answer, but I'm not big on the medication of children, as you can probably work out. I think there are a number of things which would work better and be less dangerous for kids, including physiotherapies, play therapy and family therapy.

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I didn't answer cause I've been busy with life. I really hope people wouldn't have to wrongly diagnose and wrongly treat a child just for the sake of getting some help. That would be really tragic.

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I note that no one except the mom likely asked the teens opinion

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This is so backwards, it should be the mom and the daughter who decide what she takes, if anything

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Frem, as much as you advocate treating children as adults, you seem to side with the mom as "final" arbiter of her daughter's condition w/o knowing the facts of the situation or even what the daughter was being treated FOR.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
But it's becoming more and more clear I'd make more progress trying to argue Saddams WMD with Rappy than I ever will pointing out the bloody obvious to you.

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I let it slide when you shouted me down over the FLDS, I brushed it off when you shouted me down over Gardasil (and one of my own family is DEAD, cause of that shit, mind you!)

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Well, you believe what you believe. Personally, I don't believe in belief; I try to follow the evidence.

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Yes, it would, but that is what happens. It's not that you get a "wrong" diagnosis and treat for THAT diagnosis, the point is to get a diagnosis.... ANY diagnosis... so you can treat at all . Clearly, you don't know the ins and outs of our insurance system. What our daughter was diagnosed with had nothing to do with her treatment... which BTW involved all kinds of off-label and even experimental treatments... but w/o that almighty key to the medical system, you ain't getting dick. And I'm SURE that if peeps here on this board knew what we were doing then, they'd have insisted that we be strung up for experimenting on our child. The fact of the matter is, it worked .

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My argument has always been about medicating children where there are only behavioural issues assuming there is no underlying neurological damage.... I'm not big on the medication of children {for behavioral issues} as you can probably work out. I think there are a number of things which would work better and be less dangerous for kids, including physiotherapies, play therapy and family therapy. I'm also not a big believer in the diagnosis of ADD, ODD and ADHD and the like, along with diagnosis of mental illness at an early age...

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Originally posted by SignyM:
YOUR response was Screw 'the man', my son isn't going to be dependent on big pharma. He's either either going to eat natural foods or" ... die(?). You fled the USA to avoid interference from "the authorities". And despite the fact that you say your son is doing "great!" you are looking into things like Faraday cages to resolve unspecified medical problems.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
I agree with you that truth is often found in strange places... but sometimes those places are with the scientific consensus, which you resolutely refuse to consider... EVER!

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Good grief. Don't lie about me. DO NOT LIE ABOUT MY SON. You know nothing about us or our situation. You twist whatever little you know to fit whatever warped idea you have of me. That is fine. I have explained over and over again why we live in South America. Why we did what we did. You don't agree with my decision? Fine. But you accuse me again of "fleeing the authorities," or causing my son harm, and you are dead to me. Period. Such accusations of illegal behavior (without a shred of evidence I might add) has real repercussions in the real world. You're messing with Tiger Mother now.

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EVER? Besides global warming and medicine (the two topics I listed as religions in my view), what scientific consensus have I refuted or refused to consider?

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You did, in fact, do both - do I really need to necro the damn threads, with quotes, to remind you ? Cause I don't see the point of it.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
CTS, I apologize for touching that nerve.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
In my experience, a significant behavioral issue is ALMOST ALWAYS an indication of an underlying neurological or physical issue. So when a parent shows up with a seriously misbehaving child, the first thing I DON'T do is look at mom/ dad and ask myself Hmmm.... I wonder what they did wrong?

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Bottom line: In my experience it's almost always neurological.

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I also said almost always cause I am well aware that many neuro issues have a physical cause, but due to the circumstances of the time we had no access to many of the treatments or meds which might have had some effect - the only option we had if a kid couldn't recover without it was to cross our fingers and hand them off into the system hoping against hope they might not wind up under the care of the usual pyscho-pharmo "butchers" mostly employed at the time.

I will say that neither medication nor therapy is a pancea, each piece is but a tiny continuous whole of a long term treatment plan - but too damn many people making medical decisions from a position of authority, but no qualification, like your health care plan middle management, your school administrator, local law... who have no medical qualifications, mind you... have the power to force those arbitrary decisions down your throat, and WILL do it - also having the habit of going for the knee jerk quick fix cause they don't know a fuckin thing about medicine.

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Maryanne Godboldo was looking only for help.

Last year, the Detroit mother went to the Children's Center, a group that works with troubled children, to seek advice and a treatment plan for her 13-year-old daughter. The girl, who'd never had behavioral problems before, was suddenly irritable and not her usual self following a series of immunization shots.

As part of the center's treatment plan, a doctor prescribed the child an anti-psychotic medication. But the child's symptoms only worsened. As a result, Godboldo sought another physician, who quickly recommended taking the child off the psychotropic drug.

The mother agreed and, according to her attorney, who spoke exclusively with MLive Detroit earlier today, Godboldo began following that doctor's orders.

Unfortunately for Godboldo, the state didn't agree. Child Protective Services wanted Godboldo's child medicated according the center's plan, and CPS workers essentially told the 56-year-old mother — who was never under any court order to follow the plan — to agree to their program or surrender her child.

She refused both. And so, on Thursday, CPS workers showed up at Godboldo's house with the police, who said they had a warrant to take the child. But according to Godboldo's lawyer, Wanda A. Evans, officers never produced a warrant even after Godboldo repeatedly asked to see one.

A standoff ensued. A gunshot was fired from inside the house — though, according to Evans, not at officers. Finally, after long hours of tense negotiations, Godboldo — a mother, a teacher, a dancer and a respected figure in the city's arts circles — surrendered, was jailed and, on Sunday, was arraigned on multiple felony charges.

March 28, Detroit News: Godboldo is accused of barricading herself inside her west side home with her 13-year-old daughter and a gun after being confronted Thursday afternoon by Child Protective Services workers who had a warrant to remove the girl because the mother had withheld her medication. Detroit Police said Godboldo fired a shot and refused to leave the home until negotiators, including a Wayne County judge, helped talk her into surrendering.

"We talked that day mother-to-mother. I asked her to come out on her porch and I promised I would come here today to walk out with her," Wayne Circuit Judge Deborah Thomas said Sunday after the hearing. "I'm shocked by the amount of the bond. I never dreamed it would be set so high and she wouldn't be free to care for her daughter."

Meanwhile, according to Evans, the daughter, who has a physical disability, remains in the custody of the state even though several relatives and family friends have repeatedly volunteered to care for her in her mother's absence: "They had a hearing that they didn't notify anyone of, and a woman from CPS said that no family had come forward to take care of the girl. That's just not true. Relatives were all at the house when this incident happened, saying they would take care of her. It's like, the state just wants to medicate this child."

But for now, at least, the drugs are off the table. A Wayne County Circuit Court judge ordered the medication discontinued until further review.

How isn't this entire incident a travesty?

How does a woman who voluntarily goes looking for help wind up behind bars because she's trying to do what she thinks is right by her child? How can the state make a mom who, by all accounts, has done a wonderful job of parenting give her child medicine that she and a doctor both think only worsens a problem? And how is it that we can respect a judge ordering the child off the medication but not a mother acting on her physician's advice?

Evans compares Godboldo to comic Jenny McCarthy, who has railed publicly against vaccines as a potential cause of autism in children. Granted, the science weighs heavily against that theory, but as Evans says, "Nobody is kicking in Jenny McCarthy's door. She has the right to do what she thinks is in the best interest of her child. Why can't this woman?"

Hell, this isn't about vaccines even: Godboldo had gone along with the shots. She wasn't some religious nut denying her child a life-saving medical treatment. This was a mother who, along with her doctor, didn't believe her child benefited from psychotropic drugs.

As Judge Thomas' remarks suggest, the incident has sparked shock and outrage among many in Detroit who believe that Child Protective Services overreacted (and that state agencies are often far too quick to recommend medication for kids, especially black children). A rally of support for Godboldo is being held at Detroit's Hartford Memorial Church on April 2.

I doubt that anybody's trying to justify standoffs with cops or warning shots or any of the other sensational elements of this incident. But early evidence strongly suggests that the CPS workers overstepped their bounds in a major way.

If so, then how could Godboldo not resist? Because regardless of whether it's to mental illness, physical disabilities or state agencies, good parents do not simply surrender their children.

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According to a police report, Godboldo locked the doors of her home when child welfare workers showed up Thursday afternoon with a warrant to take her daughter. The warrant apparently was issued without a hearing by a Wayne Circuit Court judge.

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Lansing— Police say two Lansing parents beat a 73-year-old school crossing guard after he tried to break up a fight between their son and another 7-year-old boy.

Police Lt. Noel Garcia tells the Lansing State Journal that the boys were involved in an altercation at Lyons Elementary School on Wednesday. Garcia says the next morning the parents drove to the area to find the other 7-year-old boy, let out their son and told him to beat the other boy.

Garcia says the couple's 7-year-old punched the other child, knocking him to the ground. When the crossing guard intervened, Garcia says the couple attacked him.

Garcia says other child had minor injuries and the guard had a chipped tooth. Police plan to seek charges against the 29-year-old woman and 26-year-old man.

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Originally posted by RionaEire:
That's a horrible story Frem, I feel so bad for that nice crossing guard. Rutting whitetrash parents (note that the term whitetrash can apply equally to anyone of any ethnicity that acts like ... whitetrash). How can anyone expect kids to behave themselves when the parents are encouraging this stuff? I'm glad that the crossing guard is okay.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Death At 3PM

by XXXXXXXX

School lets out at 3pm.
http://www.ncjrs.org/html/ojjdp/9911_1/vio1.html
http://www.ncjrs.org/html/ojjdp/9911_1/vio2.html

These charts show without one ounce of doubt, that school is a contributory factor in crime...and here's why, tho no one will admit it.

A student often harrassed by his peers more often than likely...WILL BE ARMED, once he returns home and gets out and about.

But on his way home from school, he will not be, nor will he have neighbor/parental support to back him up...by demanding that our children come to school unarmed (which is rational, and understandable) - we then take some responsibility for protecting them from harm.

The same principle applies at, say...Social Security...the sign on the door clearly indicates you must leave your weapons behind to enter the building, and beside that door is an ARMED guard...the presence of whom I find downright comforting when I have left my weapons in the car.

If I must be defenseless by the rules of the organization I am entering, it is their responsibility, morally...to defend me, period.

The SAME applies to schools...the child appearing at the bus stop to confront six larger kids who are going to kick the shit out of him does so unarmed because it is the schools policy that he not board the bus with a weapon...but where is the school when his safety is now endangered because he is unarmed ?

And on the way home, many times it is a "race" to get "home safe" and more than likely armed....before your aggressors get to you - where is the school then, by who's demands you are unarmed ?

If the school is going to demand compliance with certain rules that cause increased risks to their students (and usually FROM other students) - then the school is going to have to take responsibility for what happens to them....even if it's off school grounds, even if it's after school.

Now, consider well the mindset of the tormented child - the school demands he be certain places at certain times, and unarmed...and his tormenters know where he will be, and that he will be defenseless....and as well most of them know the teachers are going home and the school will not take responsibility for anything that happens after school or off the property.

In the mind of the victim, the school has "set him up" to be abused, and therefore a knowing and willing participant, especially if he's brought it up with them and been told there is nothing they can do after-hours or off the property.

And the sick thing is...the child is correct, the school places him in such situations, and then refuses to take their share of responsibility for what then happens to him.

Yet, now...if it was an adult, a stranger...they might act, but as long as it's students from the same school, they do nothing, how convenient.

What needs be done is to make the school system legally and financially responsible to some degree in cases where harm comes of it, for it is by their mandate the student is in this place, at this time, and not armed - and therefore easier to victimize.

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Kriho was initially charged with lying to the judge and prosecutor during "voir dire" -- the lengthy process in which judges and prosecutors stack our modern juries to make sure no one who disagrees with the government is allowed to be seated.

But upon review of the transcript, it turns out Laura Kriho didn't lie at all -- she was completely exonerated on the perjury charge. Instead, it turns out they just forgot to ask her whether she was against the drug war.

No matter. The court ruling under which Ms. Kriho is to be sentenced holds that potential jurors have a responsibility to leap to their feet during jury selection, bleating out any opinions they may have that might lead them to disagree with the court or the prosecution ... even if the questions are never asked.

(Either our courtrooms are about to start resembling revival meetings, with folks arching their backs in the aisles and babbling in tongues or wailing like certain Sunni mullahs, or else all potential jurors had better start asking for court-appointed counsel, to warn them what to say and when, lest they end up facing jail sentences for failure to "volunteer" some disallowed political opinion or other.)

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In the opinion, Souter noted that black jurors were questioned more aggressively about the death penalty, and the pool was “shuffled” at least twice by prosecutors, apparently to increase the chances whites would be selected.

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But a supervisor in the local division of the Michigan Department of Human Services obtained an emergency court order claiming Godboldo's decisions and her refusal to reveal the name of the new alternative treatment doctor amounted to medical neglect.

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"They broke into my home illegally in an effort to take my daughter," Godboldo said outside Wayne Circuit Court's Juvenile Division on East Forest. "They had no documentation that said they were allowed to enter my home."

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assault with a dangerous weapon, resisting and obstructing police, shooting inside a building and having a firearm during a felony

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However, Juvenile Court Referee Leslie Graves ruled the girl should be kept in the custody of the state. Graves said testimony and documents indicated there was probable cause to believe Godboldo's actions and her lack of cooperation with authorities constituted neglect.

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Godboldo was told to come to a meeting on March 23. When she didn't, Protective Services obtained the petition to remove the child.

Her lawyer, Wanda Evans, said the letter inviting her to the meeting never warned the state would take her child away from her if she failed to attend.

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A lawyer for the girl's father, Mubuarak Hakim, also accused protective services of failing one of its mandates to keep families together by not trying to find the father or another relative with whom to place the girl.

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A counselor reported the girl has become "agitated and aggressive" without her medications, Wenk said.

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The father's lawyer, Roger Farinha, said during the hearing that throughout her 13 days in state custody, the girl has still not been given the prescribed drug in question, and yet the authorities have said she has been stable in their care. "So maybe the mother was right," Farinha said.

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The agency is trying to comply with a 2008 consent decree aimed at improving child welfare programs. A court-appointed monitor gave the department poor marks under former Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm, but new Republican Gov. Rick Snyder will be given a chance to comply with the agreement. Snyder has proposed spending an additional $69.3 million on child welfare in the fiscal year that starts in October, although other parts of the Department of Human Services would face staffing reductions.

The New York-based group Children's Rights filed a lawsuit that led to the agreement to improve the state's foster care system. In 2008, the state settled the lawsuit filed on behalf of nearly 20,000 children.

Michigan officials agreed to several changes, including hiring hundreds of people to reduce the caseloads of workers who oversee children in foster care or protective services.

A court-appointed watchdog said late last year that Michigan had failed to achieve "by a wide margin" caseload numbers for workers who investigate allegations of child abuse and neglect.

The watchdog's report also concluded it is taking the state more than six months, instead of the 90-day target, to grant licenses to people who want to take care of children who are relatives.

Corrigan, a former Michigan Supreme Court justice, took over the Department of Human Services in January. She has committed to meeting the terms of the consent decree.

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Originally posted by RionaEire:
That's funny about the cop sending you away. :)

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