Is British Imperialism to blame for many of the world's problems? by kpo

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Is British Imperialism to blame for many of the world's problems?

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Monday, March 4, 2019 11:17
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Thursday, April 7, 2011 5:52 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

A discussion going on over here after some apologetic remarks recently from our Prime Minister David Cameron on a visit to Pakistan.

Two interesting historical arguments can be found here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12992540

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 6:03 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
A discussion going on over here after some apologetic remarks recently from our Prime Minister David Cameron on a visit to Pakistan.

Two interesting historical arguments can be found here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12992540

It's not personal. It's just war.

Hello,

It's an interesting question, and could even be broadened to say "Is imperialism in general to blame for many of the world's problems?" The obvious answer is yes.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 6:39 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Undoubtedly, and I don't think people really dispute that. They just want some description of the benefits brought by imperialism, or at least the good intentions, to be brought up as well.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 6:45 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Yes, to your question.

But some imperialism is worse than others. French imperialism, for example, is worse than British imperialism.

However, maybe that doesn't merit the distinction. That is sort of like saying the pot is a little blacker than the kettle.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 7:17 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Undoubtedly, and I don't think people really dispute that. They just want some description of the benefits brought by imperialism, or at least the good intentions, to be brought up as well.

It's not personal. It's just war.

Hello,

I don't think Imperialism has good intentions. It's a method of bolstering the Empire. Any good intentions are propaganda fed to the conquered or to oneself to justify the conquering.

It boils down to "If we control/own everything (and everybody?), we're better off."

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 12:09 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
A discussion going on over here after some apologetic remarks recently from our Prime Minister David Cameron on a visit to Pakistan.

Two interesting historical arguments can be found here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12992540

It's not personal. It's just war.

It's kind of sad but true, when you start to look at the history of places with ongoing conflict, somewhere in the past their is British Imperialism. I would probably say it a bit broader than british, and that most 20th century conflicts could be at least partially attributed to the aftermath of colonialism, but if you look at many of the world's hotspots, you'll see they were formerly part of the British Empire.

Pakistan tick
Afghanistan tick
Israel/Palestone tick
Iraq tick
Zimbabewe tic
Sudan tick

How much of that conflict can be directly attributed to being part of the British Empire is up for debate.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:12 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

What Meghan said. I definitely have some problems with British imperialism, hello, Ireland, but as bad as it may be, the whole world was shaped by it and so its hard to imagine how the world would be if it hadn't happened. If Britain hadn't done it, then I think someone else would have, and who knows how that would have turned out, better? Worse?

Sometimes I like to imagine if Ireland had taken over the world instead of Britain, what would be different, what would be the same? I just know we'd be writing on this form i nGaeilge, :)), fine by me, beidh se go maith.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:16 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:

Sometimes I like to imagine if Ireland had taken over the world instead of Britain, what would be different, what would be the same? I just know we'd be writing on this form i nGaeilge, :)), fine by me, beidh se go maith.

God had a contingency called whiskey to ensure that sort of thing could never happen

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 1:56 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I know you're playing Happy, but I don't think I find it as funny as others do. But I know you're playin, so its okay.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 2:07 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I think it's kind of delusional to believe that any nation that wields that sort of power will be all benevolent. If the Irish had conquered the world instead of the British, they would have been the masters, and that power dynamic will always lead to problems, consequences, conflict. Instead the Irish populated the world.:) A country that has about 4million population, but how many of Irish descent throughout the world?

BTW It's Magons not Meghan

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 2:53 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I would probably say it a bit broader than british, and that most 20th century conflicts could be at least partially attributed to the aftermath of colonialism,

Pardon me, but I don't see that in the European unpleasantness of 1914- 1918, nor the one between 1939 and 1945. Perhaps in the Pacific, from Nanking to Nagasaki, but not so much in Europe.

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Thursday, April 7, 2011 4:28 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Well you could actually say that the 1914-1918 war was actually about the decline of colonialism, as the remnants of the colonial powers battled it out for supremacy, almost like a huge family spat really, given that the superpowers were all controlled by one family, more or less. It also created the downfall of that dynasty, with only a few remnants of the royal family hanging on but without much power. Ww2 really was just a continuum of ww1, with a bit of breathing space inbetween so countries could reharness their resources.

The 20th century wars really heralded/caused the end of the old order of colonialism, with the major players having to give up control of their previous dominians. And in the wake of that reshuffle, a shit load of conflict resurfaced. Basically, any vacuum of power will create conflict until another power base has been securely establised, for better or for worse. Actually, a lot of it was worse. India did okay, but Pakistan became a corrupt military dictatorship, the creation of Israel....well no need to say more on that, Iraq was controlled by a brutal Ba'ath dictatorship, Zimbabwe is a basketcase, and so is the Sudan, Burma is a military dictatorship. There have been numerous brutal wars in these areas, suppression of population.

Now I'm not sure that you can lay all that at the feet of the British, but I think you can say it was brought about by a power vacuum left in the wake of the old empirical order.

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Sunday, April 10, 2011 10:30 AM

DREAMTROVE

Yes. Someone needs to get back the pound sterling though. It's running away and the square mile is out of control.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, February 21, 2016 4:00 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Not defending British Imperialism, it is clear that British have done wrong in the past
and there are still issues that need to be addressed
but look at this

maybe Arabs will continue fighting and killing each other as Arabs

and maybe Africa gonna Africa

https://www.facebook.com/todayszamancom/posts/1017136945010413

Opposition leader warns Turkey in process of ‘Pakistanization’

“You handed them guns, you turned cities into weapon warehouses. ISIL has recruited militants from 70 provinces across Turkey,” he said,

“Why has Turkey been Pakistanized? Because of aiding and abetting [terrorist groups]. Everyone should be aware of this fact,” he said.

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Monday, February 22, 2016 12:34 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I thought my earlier posts said it all, innit

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Monday, February 22, 2016 3:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

“Why has Turkey been Pakistanized? Because of aiding and abetting [terrorist groups]. Everyone should be aware of this fact,” he said.

Well, that's due to Erdogan wanting to reestablish the Ottoman Sultanate, which was only abolished in 1922 (after Turkey joined WWI against the allies and lost, and with the help of pro-western Turkic military officers).

If Turkey had stayed out of the war, things might have gone differently for the Sultanate as a viable political entity. But, some people just don't know when to leave well enough alone. Or as Kenny Rogers might put it - You've got to know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em ...

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Monday, March 4, 2019 11:17 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

It's like one of those scifi video games, and there always was an Empire? Before ISIS and the so called islamci state, there was Russia and the Soviets, before this was the British Crown, before the Brit Empire was the Spanish fleets and Romans, before that Egypt and other Empires.

How the US has hidden its empire
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/15/the-us-hidden-empire-over
seas-territories-united-states-guam-puerto-rico-american-samoa
The United States likes to think of itself as a republic, but it holds territories all over the world – the map you always see doesn’t tell the whole story. By Daniel Immerwahr

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