Flaying the poor, revering the wealthy by SignyM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Tony, you might worry about my insights...

But the facts are that Rappy has been there heart and soul for torture, invasion of privacy, political intimidation, war, and unbridled greed. And that's all right with him is because it's always against "them": would-be Muslim terrorists, liberals, the (voluntarily poor), and ... horror of horrors... public employees.

Rappy has persistently and repeatedly placed himself on the side of big malicious government and big greedy money, and I would be a fool not to recognize it, even if he doesn't. His history here speaks for itself. I suggest you listen to what it's telling you.

Oh, BTW- If people have the freedom to err they have the freedom to face the reaction. Some mistakes are more consequential than others. If that "mistake" is to aim a gun at someone, they should not wonder if the other person acts in self-defense. Rappy's (and others') gun-pointing got at least 100 million people killed. What kind of consequence should he face?

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Monday, April 18, 2011 6:51 AM

America loves a winner!

Sig,

You Alliance loving puke. You're the enemy of freedom, and hell yes I'm on the other side. I'm a Browncoat , through and through.

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Monday, April 18, 2011 7:01 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yeah, a "Browncoat" that loves invasion of privacy, big government wargasms, torture, government secrecy, Blue Sun and Niska. Your long history of blindly standing up for the rights of the big and powerful is the stuff of legend.

Browncoat?

More like Brown Shirt.

Have a nice day.

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Monday, April 18, 2011 7:05 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Tony, you might worry about my insights..."

Hello,

No, Sig. I worry about mine.

The Earthquake videos focused on things. Things, Sig, not people.

The Gulf oil spill was a lever, and not an inch more or less than a lever.

I worry about my insights because I don't see the humanity in the same places you see it.

I only ever saw it once, really. It was like a jewel. I often pray that there's a lot more under the iceberg, but I've never seen half of what you see. My vision is much darker.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, April 18, 2011 7:14 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Tony, what I saw was that Rappy cared. Maybe it was for something rather than someone, but he really cared and really looked at something larger than himself.

I'm the kind of person who puts 2 and 2 together and usually leaps to erroneous and unwarranted conclusions (like 2+2=22) but when I read Rappy's posts on the BP Gulf spill, I saw grief and sorrow. Something about his reaction to the white sandy beaches and the birds flying overhead said home... maybe not the home he grew up in, maybe the home he experienced while visiting, but home nonetheless. Anyone who experiences home has ties of safety, belonging, and loyalty. Anyone who has experienced home grieves at its loss or harm.

I'm curious: Where did you see Rappy's humanity peeking through? I would like to add it to my list of Rappy Being Human.

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Monday, April 18, 2011 7:15 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"The Earthquake videos focused on things. Things, Sig, not people."

There was one tsunami video of people struggling to move something awkward and encumbering - perhaps a human being sitting in a chair and covered with a quilt - out of harm's way. They and their load were JUST ahead of the water, it was literally at their heels. The video was edited (I believe) to end right there, so that you never saw how it turned out. Were they successful? We may never know for sure. I heard and read about that video but only recently stumbled across it. Personally, I prefer to watch videos of things rather than people being destroyed even though I get tired just thinking about all the work and care that went into those things. Watching it happen to people is just too painful. So I am glad there was very little about people.

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Monday, April 18, 2011 7:24 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"You can't defend or support your view , so you go ad hominem."

Rap, let me explain something to you. I will make it so short you'll even be able to get to the end.

You have zero credibility complaining about a lack of facts or personal attacks.

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Monday, April 18, 2011 7:30 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Rather than telling you what I saw that gave *me* a sign of hope, I'll tell you what I saw that was very different than what you saw. I hate the cynicism of it.

HOW TO DISCREDIT YOUR ENEMIES
____________________________________

1) Find something lamentable.

2) Focus on the lamentable thing. Play up its worst bits. Rail at the injustice, inhumanity, and cruelty of it all. Magnify the event until it seems to fill the wide world with suffering.

3) Connect the lamentable thing to your enemy.

Mission Accomplished.

____________________________________

Sometimes, it doesn't even matter to me whether some of the things being said are true. If I feel like I'm being controlled like a beast of burden, or a trained attack dog, I get mad. I didn't find any sincerity in any of it, Sig. Not a drop.

The initial sudden, intense railing about the event made me immediately suspicious. I waited for the shoe. I didn't have to wait long.

The only humanity I recognized in this event was sufficient humanity to appreciate which buttons to push.

Where you saw hope, I saw the Wizard behind the curtain.

So what does that say about me? How much darkness does there have to be inside my soul for me to see someone wailing about a tragedy and observe not tears... but only an agenda?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, April 18, 2011 7:44 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
How much darkness does there have to be inside my soul for me to see someone wailing about a tragedy and observe not tears... but only an agenda?

Well Tony, maybe you're just smarter than me. :)

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Monday, April 18, 2011 8:00 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

AnthonyT

You and SignyM are having a conversation that I don't even claim to understand. For all I know you are referring to me.

However - my observation is that everyone has an agenda. Every group has an agenda. Every ideology has an agenda.

Example - I deal with a family member who is ill. When their medical condition worsens, I feel it as a deep stress. Watching them struggle, watching their illness take them apart - affects me in a negative way. To relieve MY suffering I am motivated to relieve THEIR suffering. When they are doing well, and lighthearted and in good spirits - my spirit lifts and I am gloriously happy. And so I try to create those situations that may lead to good days for them. Whether it is good, or bad, that is MY agenda and I understand it to be one.

I'm not sure you can judge people, groups of people, or organizations (which act like people except operating under a different set of internal 'motivations') badly simply BECAUSE they have an agenda. I think you need to examine the agenda itself.

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Monday, April 18, 2011 9:04 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Then to be specific what appears to be lacking in the Tea Party agenda and in other sociopathic organizations (and members) is empathy for those less fortunate. "But for the grace of God..." is not in their emotional vocabulary. There is outright viciousness in tea baggers, best expressed in the line from Scrooged: "Scrape 'em off".

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Monday, April 18, 2011 9:17 AM

America loves a winner!

Sig

Figures you'd come up w/ some such crap. You'd probably call the Founders sociopaths as well.

You'd have everyone 'taken care of', under the boot of big daddy govt, given 3 hots and a cot, and tell them they should be lucky to have that much.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, April 18, 2011 9:20 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

More like Brown Shirt.

Have a nice day.

Brown shirts? Wow... you really went there ? And all on your own, huh?

Brown SHIRTS were nazis.

National SOCIALIST Party

You love socialists.

You're a nazi.

Me? I'm a freedom loving patriot.

Quote:

Rappy been in favor of every dark crushing government activity including preventive detention, warrantless wiretapping, torture, internal government secrecy, idiotic "wars of choice", "trickle down" economics, banning unions etc. etc. All the while, he'll claim he's on the side of some great virtue, like "freedom" or "progress" or "evolution".

Evolution isn't a 'virtue', but how life varies and continues to thrive. Not real sure what your issue with evolution has to do w/ anything. You also anti-gravity as well ?

Absolutley pro - supply side economics. Yep.

And I'm not for 'banning' unions,just limiting their thuggery.

Quote:

I don't know what it was, but something dark and terrible happened during Rappy's southern childhood, and he has become a shell of a person... someone who literally cannot see (and therefore cannot admit) the evil of what he preaches and does.

Wow. Project much? Hate to say it, but I had a darn good childhood. Not perfect, who does, but I'm not complainin.

There's not a wit of evil in anything I say. I am fully convinced of my views, based on life experiences and not blind, mindless ideology.

Quote:
Only twice have I seen a real person in there: during the Gulf spill, when he mourned the sandy beaches, and his reaction to the earthquake in Japan. Then the person is once again swamped by ideology.

What do you have against pure white sandy beaches ? Oh... I think I hit something ... you hate that they're 'white' ??

Quote:

I use Rappy as an example and a warning to others. It is not "ignorance" which turns people into fascists, and all the talk in the world won't change him (or them).

Ahh..right on que. The name calling and
labeling, to avoid having do deal with actual real issues.

Saw that comin'.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, April 18, 2011 9:26 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Yeah, god forbid people should care about other people and make provisions for the young, the old, the sick and the disabled. WORK - OR DIE AND BE TRAMPLED!

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Monday, April 18, 2011 9:47 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Yeah, god forbid people should care about other people and make provisions for the young, the old, the sick and the disabled. WORK - OR DIE AND BE TRAMPLED!

You speak of 'the young, the old, the sick' as if they're an endangered species, or some sort of wild animals.

They're humans. The smartest, most resourceful and amazing life form this planet has ever seen.

You, the Left, you treat people like victims. Like helpless sheep, in need of a kind but stern shepherd, along w/ his pack of wolves, to keep us all in line.

I do not hold to that view.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, April 18, 2011 9:55 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

You haven't addressed the reality of the helpless, except with another irrelevant self-justifying propagandist slogan (which I'm sure you didn't even think of yourself). You are one fucked-up mother, and dumber than a brick.

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Monday, April 18, 2011 10:59 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You haven't addressed the reality of the helpless, except with another irrelevant self-justifying propagandist slogan (which I'm sure you didn't even think of yourself). You are one fucked-up mother, and dumber than a brick.

And I'm laughing at you.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, April 18, 2011 2:35 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Everyone here has humanity, sometimes it takes forms that others can't necessarily reconcile with, but its there, pieces of it in everyone, some of us are missing certain pieces, some of us have extra pieces, but its there nonetheless.

Kiki, I don't think what you said is so horrid, you're being honest and ultimately your actions do help your ill family member, so it all works out. I've always struggled with motivations, how to change them, what causes them, when I was 13 I realized that this was something that I didn't understand, I still don't and I don't know that I ever will, maybe that piece is missing in me.

Anthony, we like you, you're a good contributer here, no matter how dark your view may be sometimes.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, April 18, 2011 3:36 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

K "You haven't addressed the reality of the helpless ..."
R "And I'm laughing at you."

And there you have it folks - the real Rap. The snarling face of someone pissed off at having to care about others. Finally free and out in the open.

Who cares if they've been working hard all their lives - they don't deserve a retirement, even if they paid into it all their working lives - right Rap? Who cares if they're born disabled or have a devastating illness - if they can't pay up they should just die, right Rap? Who cares if they're small and helpless - maybe it'll keep the number of rug rats down - right Rap? Hell with 'em all, work or die - right Rap?

This is the guy who hides behind the deficit - no, behind freedom of speech - no, behind second amendment - no, behind 'freedom' to deprive others of their bargaining freedom - so that you don't know it's about his greed, his ENTITLEMENT, and his need to have power over and revenge on others.

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Monday, April 18, 2011 4:27 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
You speak of 'the young, the old, the sick' as if they're an endangered species, or some sort of wild animals.
They're humans. The smartest, most resourceful and amazing life form this planet has ever seen.
You, the Left, you treat people like victims. Like helpless sheep, in need of a kind but stern shepherd, along w/ his pack of wolves, to keep us all in line.
I do not hold to that view.
Of course not. There are PLENTY of people to mow through! And thinking otherwise might cause you to actually... yanno... think about someone else besides yourself. Get in the way of your "Screw 'em all" motto, and your worship of never-ending greed which you misname as "freedom".

LIKE I SAID: FLAYING THE POOR. REVERING THE WEALTHY. THAT'S YOU.

"Greed". That's going to be my response to ANY economic argument you make, and I'm going to quote you on this each and every time.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2011 10:57 AM