This is how you deal w/ Westboro Cult trash.... by AURaptor

Fred Phelps - interesting. Sounds like this guy has some manipulative abilities. I can't tell whether his intention is to actually increase support for the troops via making people hate his organization, or maybe he's trying to shine a bad spotlight on the christian right and create some sort of guilt by association thing. It's hard to believe that his goal really is to influence anyone, considering the congregation's reputation and deplorable activities. But maybe's he's just crazy, or both.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 12:26 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite: But maybe's he's just crazy, or both.

No, he's just crazy. As are his kids, and their kids. Which make up the bulk of this crazy ass cult.

They're absolutely not ' pro troops ', and have been spewing their hate, long before the 1st gulf war.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 12:32 PM

I didn't say they were. I said that the guy's agenda might be different from his ugly little cult. One way to create support for something is to create an anti-organization of opposition that is completely unlikeable.

If he's actually trying to decrease support for the troops, then he clearly sucks pretty badly at it. I think the only way he could make the argument of his cult worse and have less public appeal is if he convinced some of his congregation to start wearing swastikas.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 12:38 PM

America loves a winner!

byte - you really must listen to him or his kids before you start assigning all manner of motive. He really IS that crazy. You're trying to think rational w/ a group of folks who absolutely are NOT.

This has nothing to do w/ the troops. They are just a vehicle by which this group of zealots can draw attention to themselves and spread their gut rot hatred.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 12:50 PM

All right. It'd make more sense if they DID have an ulterior motive, though.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 12:57 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
All right. It'd make more sense if they DID have an ulterior motive, though.

They're trying to save our souls, silly.

Of COURSE it don't make no sense !

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 1:01 PM

DREAMTROVE

Of course they have an ulterior motive. Phelps himself is hardly alert enough to stand trial as I hear it, but they're being supported by groups that want us to react so strongly to them that we agree to curb free speech. So far it hasn't happened.

I suspect the media, since it is the media that is giving the WBC so much coverage. No one wants to hear about them. I don't hear a clamor to give the Phelps their own reality show. It's the media that wants us to hear.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 1:10 PM

THERE we go.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 2:19 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Just cause someone is a dickhead is no reason to support abuse of power, disrespect of civil rights, and the law against them.

Because by doing so, some day you will find that weapon you helped build, clean and polish, pointed at YOU.

And just so we're crystal fucking clear on this one, the bastard gonna be holding it at the time ?

Will be someone like me - sure you wanna hand such power to harm out willy nilly, when it will inevitably wind up in the hands of someone who damn well means you harm, of the very final kind of sort ?

Cause I'd be real fuckin happy if you were.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 3:11 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Those guys are Lani, hideous, nasty, pure and simple, I'm glad they weren't able to go to the funeral, I'm glad the town banded together to keep them from appearing at the memorial/burial. That's the kind of conspiracy I like, everyone coming together against the badguys so they don't see it coming.

I guess I just don't get it, why they do what they do, maybe Byte and DT are right and it is a grand backwords plot to get something else recognition. But I tend to side with Raptor on this one, they're just hideous power hungry attention sluts who think they're doing the right thing for some reason, a reason that I still can't figure out. I'm a Christian and I would never ever ever act like that, never ever. Nor would I even entertain the idea of acting like that, its just mean and nasty and doesn't win friends or influence people. Ick

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 3:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
byte - you really must listen to him or his kids before you start assigning all manner of motive. He really IS that crazy. You're trying to think rational w/ a group of folks who absolutely are NOT.

This has nothing to do w/ the troops. They are just a vehicle by which this group of zealots can draw attention to themselves and spread their gut rot hatred.

He's almost as crazy as the person claiming that Phelps is a "Democrat activist".

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 3:42 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Just cause someone is a dickhead is no reason to support abuse of power, disrespect of civil rights, and the law against them.

Thank you, thank you, So glad someone else sees that! I completely agree but didn't want to be the first to mention that and risk being labeled as 'pro-westboro' because I oppose the abuse of power and happen to be a Christian.

I salute the town's spirit, uniting against these jackasses, but it should have been done legally.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:05 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Quote:
Just cause someone is a dickhead is no reason to support abuse of power, disrespect of civil rights, and the law against them.

Thank you, thank you, So glad someone else sees that! I completely agree but didn't want to be the first to mention that and risk being labeled as 'pro-westboro' because I oppose the abuse of power and happen to be a Christian.

I salute the town's spirit, uniting against these jackasses, but it should have been done legally.

I'm pretty sure I'd never lump you in with those nutsacks, but I'm also not sure exactly HOW one would go about stopping them "legally". After all, the Supreme Court has said they have the right to be assholes.

Unfortunately - or possibly fortunately, depending on your point of view - some of the only ways to deal with these folks are "extralegal" measures. You can arrest/detain them, throw them in jail for some trumped-up charge that will be dropped before it ever goes to trial, or you can go "mob rules" on them and just badger the shit out of them, block their cars, or beat the living shit out of them.

I'm not really in favor of tossing people in jail for being "inconvenient" or saying unpopular things, and I'm definitely not in favor of curb-stomping them to teach 'em a lesson, so for me that pretty much leaves only counter-protest and ridicule.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA

You're welcome Happy - believe me, I won't be the first time around here I have ground my teeth and stood up for those pestilent motherfuckers cause to do less is to be a hypocrite.

Thing is, I got *NO* problem with harrassing them, even illegally - I ain't exactly overflowing with respect for the law cause often as not what's right and what's legal go in opposite directions....

But I *DO* fully oppose using official resources to do it, or doing so from a position of official authority while on the government clock - that's a bad bad precedent and smacks of disrespect for the principles we're supposedly founded on.

Now, if you wanted to haul one of em into an alley and "discuss" the matter in an extra legal fashion, mano a mano (or mano a 2x4, ever my favorite), all well and good so long as you don't whinge or whine that your action was any more legal and justified than beating the crap out of someone for their race, religion, gender or what have you - cause that's a PERSONAL choice, sure.

Yea verily, this is one of the rare issues where you'll find ole angry Mikey a little nicer than me, but given choice and opportunity, you simply match them, or overmatch them, by surrounding them and singing - so long as you allow them to leave you ain't steppin over the line, and if the only direction you leave them is AWAY from the place, that's your rights meeting their rights.

The MOST fascinating discussion about that which has been had here, involved the question of a roadbock and right to travel, it's worth reading if you can necro it.
(Oh hey, look, I found it!)
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=43940
ETA: To add a quote about the thread from Geezer right near the very end cause the epic-ness of the discussion all but demands it.

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Wow! this is really like watching two groups of distinguished theologians in scholarly discussion over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin - with flamethrowers and chainsaws.

Yes, the thread was THAT good, bring popcorn.
/ETA End.

When my rights meet your rights in a collision, usually I'm okay with workin it out amicably - but in the few cases where that ain't true and it's time for a little 2x4 action, I don't pretend any moral right or high ground, and so long as it's personal it's a far different cry than using official resources, which is something I will ALWAYS stand against, no matter how reprehensible the victim thereof is.

Quote:
"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
-H.L.Mencken

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:17 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
byte - you really must listen to him or his kids before you start assigning all manner of motive. He really IS that crazy. You're trying to think rational w/ a group of folks who absolutely are NOT.

This has nothing to do w/ the troops. They are just a vehicle by which this group of zealots can draw attention to themselves and spread their gut rot hatred.

He's almost as crazy as the person claiming that Phelps is a "Democrat activist".

Gee, what do you call an activist who is also a registered Democrat ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:39 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Why do Raptor and Quicko have to try and fight about this? I think we all agree that these cult folk are badguys, can't they just agree?

I agree Frem, go ahead and harasse them but don't try to do it under government ospaces because if we have the government doing it to them, what's to stop the government from doing it to us later about something else? That's why I like this town-unites/colaberative approach.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:22 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Just cause someone is a dickhead is no reason to support abuse of power, disrespect of civil rights, and the law against them.

Because by doing so, some day you will find that weapon you helped build, clean and polish, pointed at YOU.

And just so we're crystal fucking clear on this one, the bastard gonna be holding it at the time ?

Will be someone like me - sure you wanna hand such power to harm out willy nilly, when it will inevitably wind up in the hands of someone who damn well means you harm, of the very final kind of sort ?

Cause I'd be real fuckin happy if you were.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

Frem, well said. This was basically my point, and I think the reason the WBC has both security and media coverage is that someone is intentionally using them to try to create such a weapon.

The old man himself is bats pure through and through, but I've seen the kids come up with signs and positions that are so inconsistent that they can only have been arrived at by someone who was deliberately trying to be censored.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:06 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I was unimpressed with the actions of this town.

A person was beaten, vehicles were trapped, and people were arrested and detained without cause.

If that happened to ME, I'd be pretty pissed off. Why shall we herald this as a success just because it happens to someone we don't like?

Every time a Westboro person pickets a funeral with horrible messages, and nobody violates them, it proves that the dead guy in the coffin died for something.

Every time a Westboro person's rights are infringed upon, it proves that the dead guy in the coffin died for nothing.

Who causes the greater affront to freedom?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:39 AM

HARDWARE

I admire the Patriot Guard Riders. They are a loose coalition of motorcycle riders who, when asked by the family of a fallen hero, escort the funeral procession and pointedly ignore protesters. They have ridden for military service members, police and firefighters. If WBC or another protest group is there the PGR will rev their engines, sing or recite the pledge of allegiance. They carry large flags to help obscure the view of the protesters from those in the funeral procession.

http://www.patriotguard.org/

WBC also has their activities videotaped. If someone gets into a conflict with a WBC member they often find themselves being sued afterward. I understand a significant portion of their operating funds come from lawsuits.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:40 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
WBC also has their activities videotaped. If someone gets into a conflict with a WBC member they often find themselves being sued afterward. I understand a significant portion of their operating funds come from lawsuits.

Someone above was asking about an ulterior motive for their actions. Money is always a good one.

I remember hearing a segment about the WBC on NPR, and their spokesperson indicated that they act so outrageous because they want to piss folks off at religion and drive them away from faith in God and Churches, so that the Judgement Day would come sooner.

I figure they've just come up with a good scam.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, April 21, 2011 11:53 AM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I think we can all agree that WBC's behavior definitely denotes cult trash as the title says. But even though I really dislike them and what they do, it is true that they have the right to do it and that we can't and shouldn't be able to use the government to take away those rights. Because if someone can take away their rights for doing things that the majority doesn't like, then someone can take away my rights for doing something that the majority doesn't like, and last I checked people are sheeple and the majority is quite impressionable, who knows how public opinion will swing in future after all.

But I still think they are acting like cult trash.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, April 21, 2011 2:54 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello,

I was unimpressed with the actions of this town.

A person was beaten, vehicles were trapped, and people were arrested and detained without cause.

If that happened to ME, I'd be pretty pissed off. Why shall we herald this as a success just because it happens to someone we don't like?

Every time a Westboro person pickets a funeral with horrible messages, and nobody violates them, it proves that the dead guy in the coffin died for something.

Every time a Westboro person's rights are infringed upon, it proves that the dead guy in the coffin died for nothing.

Who causes the greater affront to freedom?

--Anthony

yeah, but in the real world, these folks are lucky to be alive. Sorry, but if they showed up at the funeral of one of my friends or family members, violence would be imminent.

What they're doing isn't about 'freedom'. They're intruding on the rights and lives of others who have done nothing wrong, and have not infringed on THEIR lives, one iota. IMO, they do NOT have the right to infringe on the private, solemn moment like that.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 21, 2011 3:51 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello,

I was unimpressed with the actions of this town.

A person was beaten, vehicles were trapped, and people were arrested and detained without cause.

If that happened to ME, I'd be pretty pissed off. Why shall we herald this as a success just because it happens to someone we don't like?

Every time a Westboro person pickets a funeral with horrible messages, and nobody violates them, it proves that the dead guy in the coffin died for something.

Every time a Westboro person's rights are infringed upon, it proves that the dead guy in the coffin died for nothing.

Who causes the greater affront to freedom?

--Anthony

yeah, but in the real world, these folks are lucky to be alive. Sorry, but if they showed up at the funeral of one of my friends or family members, violence would be imminent.

What they're doing isn't about 'freedom'. They're intruding on the rights and lives of others who have done nothing wrong, and have not infringed on THEIR lives, one iota. IMO, they do NOT have the right to infringe on the private, solemn moment like that.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

So you're going on record as being more than willing - eager, it sounds like - to use violence against those whose free speech you disagree with. Good to know. Tells us all about how into "personal freedom" you are...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:15 PM

America loves a winner!

Yes, Kwickie, in this case, I would. Absolutely.

Does it bother you that I'm fully confident in my views ? Seems like it.

I hate those fuckers. There's no defending them , at all. Period.

They can have their views, and say their crap, but once they invade the funerals ...sorry, they've crossed the line.

I actually hope you never have to experience them intruding on any funeral you attend.

Yes, even of someone YOU care about..., if such a thing is possible.

An individual's personal freedoms extend how ever far they wish, except to the point where they begin to intrude or inhibit the fights and freedoms of others.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:37 PM

KANEMAN

I am in the camp that....They can do anything legal(they have freedom of communication even if they are .... tactless/ball-less/disgusting/or they are vomit SPEWED... ) that they want. Think of FFF.net as America....

At least some of our children KEEP score.....

Kwicko, I formally condemn your mother for not aborting you. Yeah, I'm sure her brother was happy to have a son, but you are inexcusable....

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Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:47 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, Kwickie, in this case, I would. Absolutely.

Does it bother you that I'm fully confident in my views ? Seems like it.

I hate those fuckers. There's no defending them , at all. Period.

They can have their views, and say their crap, but once they invade the funerals ...sorry, they've crossed the line.

I actually hope you never have to experience them intruding on any funeral you attend.

Yes, even of someone YOU care about..., if such a thing is possible.

An individual's personal freedoms extend how ever far they wish, except to the point where they begin to intrude or inhibit the fights and freedoms of others.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Why do you "hate" them? Seems kinda shitty. I don't like "the blacks" but i don't hate anyone....unless it is Kwicko...

RELAX ....Unless they slapped your mom...Liberty has a biting edge...ya know? Should they be booed, lied to? Sure(In kaneman's mind), but stoped? Don't think so....Go westboro go.....

You do know that you are a Neo-con under teaparty clothes....think about it?

I bash the libtards here only because they are LESS libertarian than you....You/neo-cons would not know liberty if I walked up and punched you in the face....the libtards? NEVER.

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Friday, April 22, 2011 10:54 AM

JAMERON4EVA

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, Kwickie, in this case, I would. Absolutely.

Does it bother you that I'm fully confident in my views ? Seems like it.

I hate those fuckers. There's no defending them , at all. Period.

They can have their views, and say their crap, but once they invade the funerals ...sorry, they've crossed the line.

I actually hope you never have to experience them intruding on any funeral you attend.

Yes, even of someone YOU care about..., if such a thing is possible.

An individual's personal freedoms extend how ever far they wish, except to the point where they begin to intrude or inhibit the fights and freedoms of others.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Which is exactly where freedom of sppech ends. Because while it's an amendment to the constitution, it also VIOLATS the constitution, once another persons rights and there persuit of freedom and of happiness, and yes while sad and gloom a funeral is also a happy occasion, cuz there free from the bull shit of this world, is where free speech ends. So sayeth the Constitution, drafted by the founding fathers, ammended by future generations. And therein lies the the beauty of our great country, the ability to change, addapt, and amend the constitution, unlike those loyalist redcoats across the pond, getting ready for a marriage that somehow will override world interests, and have little effect on us, yet were ENAMORED by it.

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

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Friday, April 22, 2011 2:11 PM

America loves a winner!

Point of fact..I'm not the govt, and I can't silence anyone's freedom to speak.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, April 22, 2011 2:42 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Raptor, emotionally I agree with you, it is disgustingly horrid what they do. But from a legal standpoint they have the same rights as other protesters and I can't ignore that and the need for that, even though I think they're trashy folk.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:12 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Raptor, emotionally I agree with you, it is disgustingly horrid what they do. But from a legal standpoint they have the same rights as other protesters and I can't ignore that and the need for that, even though I think they're trashy folk.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

They have a right to free speech, to say their piece, but they do NOT have the right to interrupt funerals.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:49 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Raptor, emotionally I agree with you, it is disgustingly horrid what they do. But from a legal standpoint they have the same rights as other protesters and I can't ignore that and the need for that, even though I think they're trashy folk.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

They have a right to free speech, to say their piece, but they do NOT have the right to interrupt funerals.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Hello,

Interrupt? Do you imagine these people storming into the cemetary, casting the preacher into the pit, and dancing around the open grave?

Do you imagine them barring access to the ceremony, so that none may approach it?

Or do you imagine people standing around outside the thing with signs and slogans?

It's a shallow view of liberty that won't tolerate it in the face of inconvenience.

If you'll not tolerate freedom because it rankles you, then you empower those who would strip it away.

What freedom do you love, then, save the freedom to have your way?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Saturday, April 23, 2011 4:54 AM

America loves a winner!

I hope they visit the funeral of your loved ones, Anthony.

See how you feel about it then.

As for me, I'm saying I'd not stand for it.

End of discussion.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, April 23, 2011 5:37 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

This was never really a discussion. This was a celebration of the strong trampling the liberties of the weak, while calling it freedom.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Sunday, April 24, 2011 7:56 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Those West boro folk revolt me and I totally understand why that town did what they did and I'm not going to diss on them for it. I do think that government needs to look at this objectively as a free speech/free assembly thing, but townsfolk have the right to protect them and theirs if they want and I won't deny them that in this situation. Do police count as government? Do they have the right to act in the manner they did? Well probably not technically, at least not on the clock. But they could join a local militia after hours, I think that if this was done by a public militia with no official government afiliation then it would be just fine, I would have no problems with it whatsoever. Call me what you like but I totally sympathize with people looking after each other and not letting these goons screw things up during a difficult time like a funeral.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, April 24, 2011 8:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I hope they visit the funeral of your loved ones, Anthony.

See how you feel about it then.

Rappy, you are tragic. I feel so sorry for you.

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Sunday, April 24, 2011 11:48 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Those West boro folk revolt me and I totally understand why that town did what they did and I'm not going to diss on them for it. I do think that government needs to look at this objectively as a free speech/free assembly thing, but townsfolk have the right to protect them and theirs if they want and I won't deny them that in this situation. Do police count as government? Do they have the right to act in the manner they did? Well probably not technically, at least not on the clock. But they could join a local militia after hours, I think that if this was done by a public militia with no official government afiliation then it would be just fine, I would have no problems with it whatsoever. Call me what you like but I totally sympathize with people looking after each other and not letting these goons screw things up during a difficult time like a funeral.

And this was the essential message of the thread in the 1st place, about folks standing up and doing for themselves where " the law " refuses to address the issue. There have been other attempts to deal with these nut cases, and I applaud those efforts as well. But it seems none of them have been so well participated in by so many members of a community as what happened in Mississippi. Bravo for them.

For some reason, a few here have taken my approval of this case, and lumped it in w/ my own personal feelings on the matter, to what amounts to actually taking the side of the Westboro Cult. I find this to be beyond silly, as well as extremely petty.

But, I don't really care. You want to support the Westboro folks, by all means, have a it. Sleep with that on your conscience.

And Sig.... frankly dear, I don't give a damn what you think.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, April 25, 2011 4:19 AM

It all makes sense now. AURaptor is the estranged husband of Sig. Willful woman that she is in a time of female oppression, Sig has traveled the length of a war torn south to get back home and make one last entreaty to save their marriage. Kaneman is happy to oblige as the sassy black nursemaid reinforcing negative stereotypes, and the issue of slavery is never brought up.

Then, Al Qaeda attacks.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EntertaininglyWrong

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Monday, April 25, 2011 4:28 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

"And this was the essential message of the thread in the 1st place, about folks standing up and doing for themselves where " the law " refuses to address the issue."

I am often inspired by people standing up for themselves, especially in the absence of an authority to which they can appeal. There have been such stories of people embracing their liberties without trampling on others', and getting the job done. This was not such an inspiring story.

"There have been other attempts to deal with these nut cases, and I applaud those efforts as well. But it seems none of them have been so well participated in by so many members of a community as what happened in Mississippi. Bravo for them. "

A town that bands together to violate people's rights has a name. It's called a mob. Not a militia, not a freedom brigade, not a justice league. Unfortunately, these townfolk didn't find a way to address this issue in a just way. They used violence, ranging from beatings to false arrest, to silence speech and free expression.

"For some reason, a few here have taken my approval of this case, and lumped it in w/ my own personal feelings on the matter"

Your approval of this case is explicitly linked to your own personal feelings on the matter. Or, to quote you, "Bravo for them."

"But, I don't really care. You want to support the Westboro folks, by all means, have a it. Sleep with that on your conscience."

Unfortunately, this is a case where if you love freedom, you have to defend the rights of everyone. Even the Westboro folks. Not because you like them, not because you support their message, but because they have a basic right that you refuse to infringe.

Your unwillingness to support freedom when it becomes difficult or distasteful shows how shallow and weak your commitment to the cause is.

If you turn your back on your ideals when they become inconvenient, then they were never really your ideals to begin with.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, April 25, 2011 5:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
It all makes sense now. AURaptor is the estranged husband of Sig. Willful woman that she is in a time of female oppression, Sig has traveled the length of a war torn south to get back home and make one last entreaty to save their marriage.

BYTE: BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

Now you see why Rappy and I are no longer together. When we were both young and were tied to our families' struggles... his family the hardworking fishermen of the Gulf, and mine from a hardscrabble steeltown... we both aspired to "make something of ourselves". But alas- Rappy left his family behind and stripped himself of everything that would remind him of where he came from. He changed his accent, his dress, and his morality. Everything that was good about him is gone. The only thing left is his belief in hard work and his desire to get ahead.

For years we were yoked to the same harness. I suppose we both knew that at some point we were simply an convenient financial fiction. I struggled for years to find the man that I fell in love with, kidding myself while trying to change him, living in denial while I knew deep in my heart that our early love was doomed. But financial advantage IS financial advantage, after all: we both boosted each other along our separate trajectories. For that sellout, I will never forgive myself.

It's over now. I still wish that some day Rappy and I can be together again and create the family I imagined: hardworking, loving, honest, and loyal. I hope he shares that distant dream too.

*SOB!*

--------------

That was fun!
-------------

I wonder how Chrisisall is doing?

------------

/threadjack

Sorry Tony, I know you are having a serious discussion with Rappy on his desire for his own personal liberties (but no one else's) but the fun aspects of the internet just opened up there for a moment! It was impossible to resist. Apologies, carry on, and good luck.

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Monday, April 25, 2011 5:52 AM

Sorry. ^_^' Associative imagery at the near quote was so vivid that I had to post.

>I wonder how Chrisisall is doing?

Not sure, I don't think I've seen him around recently. Maybe he's had some good weather and has been spending time with his son.

We need more quirky absurdity in this forum.

At any rate, I don't mean to hijack. I don't intend to get involved in the discussion at hand, beyond which to say I don't plan to let the Westboro Baptists win. If you can reasonably say that anyone who intentionally becomes national pariahs is capable of "winning."

The mockery counter-protests are often hilarious, I think I saw a sign once that said "God hates sandwiches." I fully support such comedy.

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Monday, April 25, 2011 6:49 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I will never lament the addition of good-natured levity.

I doubt there is much more to add, in any event.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, April 25, 2011 4:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
We need more quirky absurdity in this forum.

Oh yesss, yesss indeed...mmm, chocolate, hehehe..ehehehe..HAHAHAHAHH
(clearance easter candy, I claim temp insanity)
MUAHAHAHAHAHHA!

-F

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Monday, April 25, 2011 5:12 PM

I've been sneaking cadbury mini-eggs, the only temptation I ever break my diet for. >_>

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 9:19 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Byte, your Gone with the Wind thing made me smile.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Saturday, April 30, 2011 11:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Regarding the WBC. They’re banned from the UK and there have been laws written to keep them from protesting any nearer than between 300 feet (2006---Bush’s Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act, and 2011 Arizona law, which additionally prohibited protests within an hour from the funeral’s beginning or end) and 500 feet (Indiana and Michigan passed laws making it a felony to protest within 500 feet of a funeral). There is even the Illinois Senate Bill 1144, which shields grieving military families from protests during funerals and memorial services of fallen military service members ENTIRELY. TheWBC had one case against them that went all the way up to the Supreme Court which, unfortunately, they won. But the other laws, as far as I can see, weren’t challenged and still stand.

Given all but one of these was passed in 2006, I’d suggest that if they were backed by those wanting to limit free speech, they’re not doing so good. As to someone backing them, “Westboro is funded entirely by its congregation. The church also makes money through lawsuits and legal fees.” They sue anyone infringing on their freedom of speech, and they usually win, To me, the logical thing to do is pass laws to keep them a distance from the funeral, then have citizens do things to block them and their noise from those attending the funeral. I don't see limiting how close they cna get to a funeral as a slippery slope, tho' maybe DT does. And there’s also the aforementioned Patriot Guard, made up mostly of veterans. Hardware is also right that anyone harassing them gets sued, and ends up contributing to them as a result! Violence isn’t necessary, is abhorrent and goes against our belief in free speech, whether we approve of it or not. I'm firmly convinced imagination can find ways to defeat them legally, and that's what should be used. Hatred and violence don't do anyone any good, and just create people like Raptor who would happily toss out our laws and values when something/someone displeases them.

You gotta love Raptor:

Quote:
For some reason, a few here have taken my approval of this case, and lumped it in w/ my own personal feelings on the matter, to what amounts to actually taking the side of the Westboro Cult. I find this to be beyond silly, as well as extremely petty.

Nicely twisting our defense of FREEDOM OF SPEECH to claim it’s defense of the WBC. Nobody needs to be told that not a single person here has any desire to defend the WBC, but most of us have difficulty agreeing that violence should be used against anyone’s free speech, as Raptor has loudly proclaimed it should be. Either he doesn’t get that or he’s just using his usual tactic of twisting things in the hopes nobody notices. I note he’s not been back since trying that particular tactic.

Byte and Sig showed wonderful imagination and humor, and yes, we definitely need more quirky absurdity in this forum! And less taking oneself too seriously, as well... I miss Chris something FIERCE, but Anthony does a damned good job in his absence, I have to say.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, May 2, 2011 1:43 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

That 300 feet of a funeral rule does sound nice. I think I might even vote for it. People can still protest the funeral, but they are made to do it at a distance. I know that could be construed as a slippery slope, but I think a majority of people in any given county or state would probably vote for it. And citizens and the local militia can make sure things go smooth. I'll have to think about that some more, I do believe, grudgingly, that the Westboro cult has a right to protest and I don't believe the government should take that away since it will be my freedoms that they'd probably go after next, but having a 300 feet rule might be a happy medium.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, May 5, 2011 4:52 AM