Presbyterian Church U.S.A. to allow gay and lesbian clergy by Niki2

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Presbyterian Church U.S.A. to allow gay and lesbian clergy

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:49
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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 8:44 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Or that one?

Quote:
The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) on Tuesday voted to allow the ordination of openly gay and lesbian ministers.

The church put the vote to its 173 presbyteries, or governing bodies, nationwide.

On Tuesday, the Twin Citites Area presbytery, which covers Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota, became the 87th presbytery -- and the deciding vote -- to approve an amendment that will remove the constitutional requirement that all ministers, elders and deacons live in "fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman or chastity in singleness."

The change, which opens up the possibility that people in same-sex relationships can be considered for ordination, is expected to take effect starting on July 10. It is the latest move by a Protestant denomination toward the inclusion of gay and lesbian clergy.

More at http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/05/10/presbyterian.gay.lesbian.ordination/i
ndex.html?hpt=Sbin

Think of that. Religion joining the 21st century. What's next?? Could we be...dare I say it...MATURING in our view of homosexuality?

Nah, silly me, what a thought!

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 9:26 AM

BYTEMITE

I do see a potential loophole here. They might just remove the "man and women part" and require the gay and lesbian couples to be in the "sacred covenant of marriage" with each other. Which would pose some difficulty at the present time.

But if they're sincere, then wow. That's a potential game changer.

I'm assuming they'd leave in provisions about some kind of morality clause. You probably still can't be abusive or anything.

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:16 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Heck, the Catholics and Baptists have allowed gay clergy for generations! Or at the very least, they've turned a blind eye towards such things...

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 1:23 PM

BYTEMITE

That's why I mentioned a morality clause. It doesn't mean the priests that break it are particularly honest about it: violation of such a clause is dependent on being caught.

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 6:52 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I shouldn't say anything ... but.

Okay Byte, how are you going to define "morality" clause? I already think that morality has gone out the window on this issue, so if that part of "morality" is no longer applicable then what's to stop anyone from taking the other parts out as well? For instance, why not cousins who are married? Why not have people who are rutting with more than one person at a time, as long as everyone knows and there aren't any secrets? What's wrong with secrets anyways, why does my partner have to know I'm rutting with others? Speaking of which, 18 is just a number after all ... (

I suspect I'm going to take some heat for this one but I don't really care.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, May 11, 2011 7:01 PM

BYTEMITE

I don't think gayness or even multiple partners is immoral, though I suspect "fidelity" might be the sticking point in this case.

Loosening the rules in one area does not imply loosened or irrelevant rules in other areas.

And I did mention abuse. I include age-related abuse in that category, as I mentioned to Kwicko.

But really, I don't care what a priest does in their private life so long as they don't engage in murder or human-sacrifice, or have filth covered lash-scarred fourteen year olds tied up in their basements carrying their incest babies.

I figure healthy consensual grown-up relationships should have approximately zilch effect on a person's faith, ability to express that faith, or ability to extend that faith through their congregation. It's not my business if they're gay with a long-term partner, married heterosexually, or chaste, and I don't see how it would interfere with their duties anyway.

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Thursday, May 12, 2011 8:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

No heat, Riona, just sadness. I thought better of you. Those are talking points straight out of the right-wingers' mouths, I'm disappointed you've swallowed them.

Me, I take heart at this. I'd far rather have clergy messing around with one another than being pedophiles. Despite what you might have heard from the same who espoused "people will start marrying animals!", homosexuals are no more often pedophiles than heterosexuals. Given the abuse that's been made public about the clergy all over the world, and how the church has kept it secret, I'm surprised anyone would worry that allowing gay clergy would endanger "morality" in the church!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, May 12, 2011 8:50 AM

HARDWARE

No children.
No animals.
No snuff.
Consent required.

Have a nice day.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Thursday, May 12, 2011 10:24 AM

BYTEMITE

Sounds good to me.

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Thursday, May 12, 2011 10:48 AM

DREAMTROVE

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:07 AM

BYTEMITE

Uh oh. I think the Jedi might have a problem with that whole "no witchcraft" thing. And the whole chosen one thing.

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Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:35 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Too bad Niki, I thought you had seen by now that I have feelings about such things, I haven't exactly been silent about it.

On another note it always irritated me that Catholic clergy have been expected not to marry. In Ireland clergy were allowed to marry and have kids if they liked, no one minded, until the 12th century or so when Rome insisted that they follow Roman Catholic rule. :( In old Ireland the monistary was seen as a community, so it made perfect sense to see little ones running around whose parents were the monks and nuns and priests etc.

I consider myself fairly open minded about most things, but this same sex sex thing and I just don't get along well. I do of course think that doing things to under aged folk is worse.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, May 12, 2011 11:49 AM

BYTEMITE

I'm not completely unsympathetic. I've had friends who were yaoi fangirls who used to randomly give me pieces of their writing without any warning about what it was about (usually gay slave rape). I didn't exactly like having it shoved in my face then.

But that's more an issue of people keeping their private lives out of public view. That's different from someone who's gay having a public job, just like it's different than someone who's straight and married having a public job. It's not like either one is going to be fornicating on the altar.

Out of sight, out of mind, and they can do what they want so long as it's consensual and there's no abuse.

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