REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

How to win an argument with Liberals-Progressives-Socialists-etc...

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 23:23
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 23683
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Thursday, June 9, 2011 8:39 AM

SKYDIVELIFE


Oh, btw.

I watched the videos Wulfenstar put up.

They are kind of funny. Every one of them begins with the author saying "Oh no, why?"

But I agree with some people here who have said that he shouldn't use URLs as a way to make his point.



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Thursday, June 9, 2011 8:57 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Indeed, welcome to the socio-political moshpit of RWED, good fortune and remember, in the end it's all just this...



So don't let it get your blood pressure up none, ehe?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 9:43 AM

TERRAN57


Wulfenstar, sounds German like the National Socialist Party. A Hitler fan?

Or are you part of the Grand Oil Party. Hope you make good $$$ or those insurance company death panels will be waiting for you at 65. You can use your Republican reimbursement card to help pay your final costs as its sure not going to be enough to pay your health care costs. Heil Ryan

Terran57

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 9:47 AM

SKYDIVELIFE


Terran57, I would remind you of this,

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%)."[3][2] In other words, Godwin put forth the hyperbolic observation that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis.


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Thursday, June 9, 2011 9:55 AM

TERRAN57


When it's true it's true :-)

Terran57

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 10:12 AM

TERRAN57


My basis by the way was reading the garbage that Wulf has spammed on this site. I gave another op-ed, much longer, but being cherry at this site is is floating in the virtual netherworld. It was not Nazi in origin. Maybe it will show up some day or pop into another diminsion. The bottom line of the first is we need progressives if we are ever to reach a level 1 civilization, but we need moderates to counter an abuse of power. Conservetives either like Falwell or bin Laden, can retard civilzations advance. That is unless they are willing to compromise, then they too can be a force for good and bring the entire system into balance.

Bottom line, without progressives in moderation, there will be no firefly verse, no star trek and we as a civilization and possibly species will die and all our learning and blood spilled will be in vain.

Science costs big $$$, so does education and taking care of our elders. The one thing we don't need or want is war which is counter-productive. Bush spent a trillion $ on Iraq. About the same (actually less) as the stimulus. That money could have done much more here at home that sprawled out over the desert. As a strong states rights advocate and a fomer part of the shovel brigade, I encorage you to seek a middle ground and squell the spammer Wulf, who only is trying to piss people off rather than debate. Also, isn't this site about Firefly? Comparisons to the Alliance and Browncoats I understand, but this Wulf guy is just another Rush trying to piss off anybody that disagrees with him.

Does he actually look forward to battle of Serenity Valley :-). The next 100 years will be pivitol to the survival of the human species, and all he is concerned with is the next election cycle. Moderation is the key. I still must ask Wulf if he gets his way, will he say Heil Ryan?

Terran57
J. Thompson D.Div

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 10:51 AM

SKYDIVELIFE


I don't know anyone here enough to defend them, so Wulf is on his own.

I agree that Bush was wrong, in that he used the attacks to take away our freedoms, and create a SS-style "Homeland Security".

But I havn't seen President Obama reverse these things.


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Thursday, June 9, 2011 11:24 AM

BYTEMITE


Oh dear. Now there's two.

Terran, I think it may be too late for the space program. The elites both corporate and political got their claws in, because they realized that if humanity gets into space, we'll no longer be under their jurisdiction or buying their stuff.

They're petty enough that they'll trap us all here and kill us off by pollution, so long as they don't lose their death grip on their control and their feelings of superiority.

Humanity was born on this world, and I have great fear that we are going to die on this world as well. And soon.

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 11:30 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Oh irony - this just landed in my inbox.

Homeowners use car to chase off suspected burglars
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/08/us-crime-tennessee-idUSTRE75
746220110608
Quote:
Michael Harris and Sally Michello were greeted by gunfire from one of the trio of intruders when they arrived at their home in Rutherford County, just south of Nashville, according to Sheriff's Department spokeswoman Lisa Marchesoni.

The burglars fled after one of them was struck by the car. No one was injured by the gunfire, but bullets did strike the door frame of the couple's vehicle, said Criminal Investigations Division Commander Preble Acton.

The victims were defending themselves by using their vehicle to ward off the intruders, said Cpl. Scott Martin. Police said no one was seriously injured.

Guess a car does make a pretty good CCW, but getting one into a holster might be a problem.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 12:54 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


That is ironic Frem.

Homeschooling: My primary problem is that often home schooled kids don't get the oppertunities to socialize that other kids get. This is why I am fine with homeschool co ops, where several families get together and home school their kids together, that way they kids are with other kids and get more of those oppertunities. I believe that at least half of the benefit of going to a school is that oppertunity to socialize and learn how its done. So in my opinion a home school co op can meet those needs in the right circumstances. Unfortunately so many kids I know don't play with their neighbors anymore. When I was little I always played with the neighbor kids. My little brother never does and my mother doesn't see any reason to encourage him to because she is not very sociable anymore and seems to not see the need for him to be. At least he goes to school and has friends there.

My best friend had to take third grade over again once she got into school because she'd been homeschooled and her mom apparently wasn't suited to teaching, plus she had some unique educational needs as a little girl that weren't being met at home. But she's still all for homeschooling. Her ideal system of educating children would be home school through elementary school, home school co op in middle school and regular public school in high school. I said why not just do a home school co op from the beginning and she doesn't get it. Oh well.

As everyone knows I'm totally pro public school. If a parent wants to send their kid to private school or home school (hopefully with a co op, crossing my fingers) then they certainly can do that, they have that right. But I will always be a staunch public school supporter. Could public schools be run by the state instead of the federal government? That would be fine with me, as long as there is always public school available to all children.

SkyDive, thanks for explaining what a Godwyn is, people have been saying it for months since I've joined but I never could figure out what it was and didn't want to ask because that felt like a waste of time, so thanks.

Terran, I'm a big fan of moderation too.

You know this thread has more posts than AI In A Box? Go figure.
:l)


"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 1:21 PM

BYTEMITE


Terran, I see the board is glitching out on you and eating your responses. try going to http://beta.fireflyfans.net/main.aspx

Though word of warning, there's a glitch over there now too that keeps you from being able to edit after you've posted. But you can always get around that by going back over to the main site.

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 1:37 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by SkyDiveLife:
Terran57, I would remind you of this,

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%)."[3][2] In other words, Godwin put forth the hyperbolic observation that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis.




I pointed out a few years ago right here on this very site that yelling "Godwin" in a post is the new Godwin. Given enough time and posts, someone absolutely WILL claim that someone else has Godwinned the post, whether they have or not. I got called for Godinning a post for mentioning fascism, so Godwin's not just for Nazis anymore, it seems...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 1:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by SkyDiveLife:
I don't know anyone here enough to defend them, so Wulf is on his own.

I agree that Bush was wrong, in that he used the attacks to take away our freedoms, and create a SS-style "Homeland Security".

But I havn't seen President Obama reverse these things.




And there's the rub. That's the problem with ever giving ANYONE these kinds of power in the first place, because they are NEVER going to just give them back once they've decided the "threat" has passed.

We are now in a perpetual state of "EverWar", something like the movie "Brazil", where we're living under the "Permanent Emergency Act" provisions.

And best estimates are that by the time the Iraq debacle is wound down, it will have cost the American taxpayers more than $2.5 trillion. And then there's the world's largest embassy there to maintain, with over 20,000 "employees".

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 1:47 PM

BYTEMITE


Technically not, but the thing is that people have started to become genre savvy and realize that playing the Hitler card has no effect on anyone anymore, so they're trying to replace Hitler with any other number of dictators and autocrats. But since it's really just the same kind of insult and ad hominem attack, the concept of Godwin's law is slowly expanding.

However, Godwin's law used CORRECTLY is a valid logical argument, because it calls out an actual fallacy, reductio ad hitlerum. Or, in non-Hitler cases, simple ad hominem and guilt by association.

Saying "calling godwin is the new godwin" is like saying "calling strawman is an irrelevant argument because it is a popular counter argument." An argument is valid or invalid separate from the amount of use that particular argument sees.

I was the first to call Godwin's law in this thread, but it was a valid call out.

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 1:51 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Technically not, but the thing is that people have started to become genre savvy and realize that playing the Hitler card has no effect on anyone anymore, so they're trying to replace Hitler with any other number of dictators and autocrats. But since it's really just the same kind of insult and ad hominem attack, the concept of Godwin's law is slowly expanding.



Yup. Just in this thread, I've seen liberals compared to Pol Pot, which is just a profoundly ignorant thing to say, since the Khmer Rouge did literally what Sarah Palin and the tea parties are doing metaphorically: They're trying to wipe out anyone with any education and a sense of "liberalism".

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 2:54 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:
Originally posted by SkyDiveLife:
HardWare, I guess my answer would be the military? Maybe the mail?

I like the idea of most services being run by local people and companies. If your trash doesnt get picked up on time, you can change companies. Same goes for the condition of roads, and the school system.

Even the police can be outsourced and run by local people.

Medicare and Medicaid are a problem. But maybe companies could be given insentives to offer 401k Matched Asset Plans to all their employees?

Then you have the problem of small business not having the capitol to offer those benefits.

Is there a way around that?


Some of the things my taxes pay for which I approve - roads and maintanance, hospitals and medical treatment, welfare payments, mental health services, schools, subsidising tertiary education, courts, police, child protection services, rubbish removal, .....

Not saying that I approve always of how these things are run, or that I approve of all things government funded, but I think its pretty good that we have the above services.

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 4:57 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Back in the old days, kids just used to make friends in their neighborhoods, or go to parks ..." if they lived in the city or a small town. But now we have 'burbs and kids are physically isolated from other kids. And there just aren't as many children around of the right age range now that families are smaller. It takes mom or dad with a car to get those kids to a place where there are other kids.

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 5:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


WULFIE CUB, YOU PAYIN' ATTENTION???
Quote:
The burglars fled after one of them was struck by the car. No one was injured by the gunfire, but bullets did strike the door frame of the couple's vehicle, said Criminal Investigations Division Commander Preble Acton.

The victims were defending themselves by using their vehicle to ward off the intruders, said Cpl. Scott Martin. Police said no one was seriously injured.
Heh!

Did I ever tell you all about the time that a resident robber tried to get in my car with me, with his pants unzipped? Once I had the car door slammed and locked and the engine running, the terms had changed! He said Hey, you wanna suck my cock? and I said Hey, you want me to run you over?. Well, he hopped on his bike and I followed him in my car, 2 feet behind, with the horn blaring. Needless to say, he didn't trouble the apartment complex any more!

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 5:02 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"I like the idea of most services being run by local people and companies."

Until you pit them against a national or multinational company doing this:




Then what?

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 11:39 PM

TERRAN57


Agree with them is how to win.

Terran57

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Thursday, June 9, 2011 11:44 PM

TERRAN57


Hmmm: Seems the only way my posts go through is to reply directly to Wulf. Weird! It must be a rightwing, Rush Limbaugh, Stalinist (nothing about Godwin please), al Queada conspiracy!!!!!!

Have a great night and a better tomorrow.

Terran57

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Friday, June 10, 2011 1:02 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:
Originally posted by Terran57:
Hmmm: Seems the only way my posts go through is to reply directly to Wulf. Weird! It must be a rightwing, Rush Limbaugh, Stalinist (nothing about Godwin please), al Queada conspiracy!!!!!!

Have a great night and a better tomorrow.

Terran57


Use the beta

http://beta.fireflyfans.net

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 2:53 AM

SKYDIVELIFE


RionaEire wrote:

"You know this thread has more posts than AI In A Box? Go figure.
:l)"

To the title of this thread:

I don't think its possible to "win" an argument with anyone. Expecially if a person has a strongly held belief.

Threads like this, or others, are sounding boards of different ideas. For every idea there is another to confront it, usually.


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Friday, June 10, 2011 3:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


"Agree with them is how to win???"

Go suck on a smokestack.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 5:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


("Replying" to last post, but meant to respond to everyone since I was last here)
Quote:
Right now your argument looks like: liberalism ... single parent households, messed up generations, ineffective schools, increased crime, gun control, reduced speech, nanny state. I need the ellipses filled in for me. Is it secularism, feminism, both?.
That IS his argument, made over and over and over again, haven’t you noticed? Anything “liberal” is bad, all the bad things are attributable to liberals, and all liberals are “hippies”, his favorite term of derision. I’m surprised you didn’t pick up on this before.
Quote:
you are resorting to personal attacks that you have no evidence of
Riona, you’re wasting your “fingers” (since “breath” d0esn’t apply here). Wulf’s never going to change his tactics, and the tactics you see here. He doesn’t WANT to be mature, he just spouts whatever comes to mind against those who disagree with him. It’s nothing new; it won’t change.
Quote:
There is a real benefit to having multiple instructors and peers for them to develop socially along side.
Happy, well said. For me, the benefit of socialization is a BIG one, and home schooling isolates a kid so they get virtually none. Kids, like puppies, and virtually every other animal, need to learn boundaries, need to learn that when a peer says “ouch”, it means back off, among other things. Given all the cuts to education we’re so “intelligently” (I use the term advisedly, obviously) making currently, there are fewer teachers per student, so about the only advantage education HAS, more and more, is socialization. And not of the best kind, but better than none.
Quote:
The main thing about homeschooling is that the biggest group that wants it are the religious fundamentalists.
That’s the other thing that bothers me about it. I remember from “The Authoritarians” that RWAs try to keep their offspring within their own circle, and this is another way of doing so, but again, no exposure to other attitudes and ways of thinking does NOT make for a tolerant child who grows up to be any kind of tolerant adult.
Quote:
Kids are going to make friends and socialize wherever
That’s not necessarily true. Where does a fundamentalist home-schooled child socialize with others who think differently from him? In church? In Sunday school? I would disagree that they get much chance to socialize with those with different ideas. While I agree with a lot of what you said about public schools, I think the potential for harm from home schooling is greater.

Riona has the same difficulties in that respect as I do. I’d never heard of co-op home schooling, Riona, thank you; I have less trouble with that, as it does give the kids a chance to socialize. I still have reservations about religious families home schooling, if their religion gets into it overmuch or slants their view of things.

I was nine when we went to Afghanistan, and nearly 12 when we returned. We immediately discovered that my EDUCATION was about a year ahead of my grade, but my SOCIALIZATION was at least a year (or more) behind. The school I attended in Afghanistan was an international school, with few Americans. We had no P.E. or organized sports, and the American kids (of which there were few) were only able to socialize amongst ourselves. To me it was very telling, and I’ve never forgotten it. I remember all too clearly how hard it was, as a 12-year-old, to fit in, to understand the nuances of my first year, jr. high, and later high school. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone else.

I was going to bring up time, but you already did. Given how UNinvolved many parents are these days, who watches over home schoolers to see if they actually spend time with their kids and help them learn? I’m sure many, many of them do, but what about those who just shove books at their kids and make sure they memorize enough, or whatever, to pass “tests” that allow them to continue home schooling, and little else? While the view of history, science, etc. are certainly not perfect in public schools, I shudder to think what they may be in religiously-centered home schooling. I also question how much art, etc., a home-schooled child might receive, and certainly it minimizes the ability for the child to get exercise, participate in sports or join band or something. A parent just can’t provide all that unless they devote their lives to little else, and can’t provide group activities easily, or outside other home-schooled families, it would seem to me. Oops, I see Happy has made a lot of my argument for me, and better. Thanx Happy.

I agree with Sky,
Quote:
I guess its just a matter of who is teaching what and how.
And how much oversight is given to that? By the way, welcome Sky from me as well; new voices are always appreciated! Ditto Terrans, although my paranoia is immediately coming to the fore, given both of you arrived here either today or yesterday, have nothing in your profiles and Sky has only posted in RWED, about an hour and a half after arriving. Sockpuppets (or “sickpuppies” as I like to call them) abound here, but I try to accept every newcomer as real as best I can. I have more willingness to believe Terrans is for real, since he’s been in other forums before coming here, but one can never know about “voices” on the internet, so everyone will have to judge for themselves.

Terrans, I like what you said about liberals and moderates, tho’ I’m not quite as harsh about conservatives as you. I think we need all THREE, and more...the more diverse voices we have, the more we learn from one another, despite the bickering. Do be forewarned, both of you, that this IS a snakepit (or at least sometimes can be!), so watch out.

When it comes to Wulf, I’m not baiting him, and I would ADORE an “intelligent, polite, or insightful comment from Wulf.” He’s made a couple now and then, and I’ve noted it when I see it. But for the most part, any and all advice as to how to debate intelligently is ignored by Wulf and he goes right on, just like Raptor, spewing his hate. We NEED more intelligent, polite, insightful voices from the right, I’ve bemoaned the fact we have so few (if any at any given time) and that it reduces the ability to communicate, much less debate. But I’ve rarely seen Wulf WANT to communicate, he just posts negative about anything left and positive about anything right, lots of videos and fantasy, and does it neither intelligently, politely or insightfully. Would that he COULD change (or wanted to, I’m not sure which it is).
Quote:
Just pointless really, unless you enjoy the vitriol.
I KNOW Raptor does; I don’t know whether Wulf does or if he just sinks into it, but he definitely brings out the worst in people with his black-and-white, fantasy-video views.

Oooo, MANY THANX BYTE!! I’ve been having a helluva time with being unable to edit on the beta page, now I know how I CAN. I’m very grateful.

And thanx Frem, that made me giggle (the car thing). We won’t hear back from Wulf most likely (especially as I see he’s abandoned the thread?), but that’s okay, I LOVE that someone actually used that tactic, and it WORKED!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Friday, June 10, 2011 6:06 AM

SKYDIVELIFE


Hello Niki2,

Thanks for the welcome, Im still setting up my profile and when I saw how many posts there were in this thread, I got curious and wanted to put my 2 cents in.

I tend to lean center-right in my way of thinking, but lots of people do go extreme one way or the other. Politics tend to bring out the worst in people.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 6:54 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"I like the idea of most services being run by local people and companies."

Until you pit them against a national or multinational company doing this:




Then what?


The trick is you have to kill the big multi-nationals, stomp them in the dust, so completely that even the parasites funding them don't even have the funds anymore.

There's a fine balance out there. Locals have an advantage in that there's much less transportation which means less preservatives and maybe pesticides that will kill you. Also generally less pollution because the would-be polluters have to LIVE there. You can't get away from knowing that what you might do might hurt people you know. Best way possible to stop crime.

The only advantage that the big multi-nationals have is that they have more people, but with greatly increased inefficiency: you may be creating some hi-tech manufacturing products with them, but look at how long it takes to create new things, to revolutionize. They stymie creativity and technology stagnates. All they can create is the same product repackaged with maybe more memory or more compact memory, and have it break in a few years so people have to keep consuming. It's ultimately a self-destructive business model. The only reason it's competitive? Because of kick-backs at the executive level, because of the same close-knit bunch of investors who have all the money, who have changed the system so that the large corporations get the advantage. Wall Street? It's the major firms and corporations that are traded. Laws? Pork-barrel? Hell, wars fought solely to give some assholes an exclusive contract?

I think you can see what I mean.

Call me naive if you want, but I think all of us can agree on which option is BETTER. The problem is these other guys are intentionally gaming and breaking the system. We have to figure out how to game and break it the other way, by revolutionizing technology the ground out from underneath them. We have to create an alternate, counter-economy, and we can do it, IF it's based on sustainability and self-sufficiency.

And hope to hell that they don't crash this economy before we've done so, because these people are chronically short-sighted, and even if they're the ones's who'll get hit hardest, like in the great depression of 1929 (people had the most invested in stocks had the furthest to fall), the rest of us will still suffer for it. I think we all know how very close the global economy came to a complete collapse and shut-down in 2008. It'll happen again. You know it will.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 6:56 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:
I'm something of a rational anarchist.

Hmm, so a system of simple, society-wide laws that communities can themselves enforce... But no government, no taxation? If so then you're exempt from the charge of believing you know what is better for others. But I still maintain that all the other political philosophies, and not just the ones on the left are guilty of it. Conservatism, even libertarianism believe in a government, funded by involuntary taxation, right?

Quote:
Governments should be formed for the purpose of undertaking projects the citizens themselves cannot perform. Sewage can be handled by a corporation. Water supply can likewise be handled by a corporate entity. (in fact, it is where I live) Power supply, corporations. Phone or network connectivity, again corporations. EMS in my area is handled by a volunteer fire company. They take donations or they charge you for an ambulance ride. Some fire companies also have subscription plans or charge for call outs. Sounds horrible? I don't know.

This doesn't offend me in any way - I don't begrudge it at all, if it runs well. If it works as well as government provided servies, then good for you. If it doesn't quite work as well, but the citizens are happier under it for ideological reasons, then it's still working in a way, so again, fair enough. If it works significantly better than government run services, then I'll be interested in adopting it where I live...

Quote:
My question back to you is this; what services do you receive from the Feral Government (no typo) that you could just not live without?

Hmm, well I'll start by saying law enforcement. If I wanted someone to come to my house to catch a home invader, or to solve the murder or rape of a family member, I'd presumably have to pay a private company? The inevitable result of this seems to me to be that the rich would get a better standard of justice and protection than the poor... This is a problem for me. I imagine I and a lot of the people I care about would get by - but that's just not the society I want to live in. The same with if you remove things like a free education system; you end up with a VAST underclass of citizens that don't get educated, can't get a good job, and thus can't afford education for their children. This seems like a recipe for a society that is unmeritocratic and very unharmonious (crime, poverty and strife ridden) - again, not a society I want to live in.

But it seems to me you and I have different criteria. I'm not so much looking at what parts of government I could 'do without', I'm looking at what's the right amount of government to make society work best. I'm looking to optimise - without any rigid, ideological constraints.

Quote:
So why do I need a government? Seriously? I have a large tax burden for which I receive next to nothing in return. Doesn't really sound fair.

Maybe you get more than you think. I imagine taking you on an 'It's a Wonderful Life' style tour of the USA in an alternate reality where it never had a government (say George Washington dissolved it immediately after independence). I imagine an America that is more insular, agrarian, backwards, poor, unhealthy, unequal, probably still slave-holding... That's all assuming you weren't colonised by the French, or whomever. How do you imagine it? Would America, or you yourself be doing better?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 7:19 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
While the view of history, science, etc. are certainly not perfect in public schools, I shudder to think what they may be in religiously-centered home schooling.


As I said before, this doesn't change between homeschooling versus public schooling. If a kid is indoctrinated with fundamentalist views (which usually happens VERY early on), then they're not going to get much out of science as taught in a public classroom because they don't believe it anyway.

I mean, you've seen the videos of public teachers saying, "well, here's where I'm supposed to teach you about evolution, but you and I know jesus didn't come from a monkey." Speaking on a strictly societal level, they're not exactly going to be contributing to science or technology anyway, so what does it matter what they believe? So long as they aren't committing any crimes, should I care?

Besides, while I'll admit fundamentalist homeschooling is a significant chunk, and I agree that they'll have some serious deficiencies, that's something they and their families have chosen. If they want to handicap themselves, I'm not sure how it's any business of mine.

Also, parents used to be quite a bit more hands off at what their children got into. Society survived, children somehow figured it out. I think we've gotten into this habit of thinking that kids need their hands held until they can be shooed out of the nest (and sometimes even after that). But my experience has been kids will surprise you what they can pick up. And while homeschooling can be an aspect of hand-holding that is repulsive to me, I'm kinda torn whether public schools are a better option for that.

Homeschooled kids don't get exercise? And, what, sitting at a desk you do? From kindergarten to workforce to grave, people are spending most of their time SITTING nowadays, with major effects on health, fitness, and stress levels. The system's broken Niki, you and I know it. You don't defend what's broken, you change it so it's not broken anymore.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 7:39 AM

SKYDIVELIFE


Bytemite,

You wrote: "Homeschooled kids don't get exercise? And, what, sitting at a desk you do? From kindergarten to workforce to grave, people are spending most of their time SITTING nowadays, with major effects on health, fitness, and stress levels."

I have this somewhat, unorthodox, idea.

Desks, where you have to stand. Hemmingway, it is reported, never wrote/typed while sitting.

He always stood to do so.

The desks themselves, could be adjusted for children of differing heights.

I know it seems a little strange, but it might help.


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Friday, June 10, 2011 7:46 AM

BYTEMITE


Maybe. There's a balance here too, though. A person should neither stand nor sit for too long, but rather alternate between and also get exercise.

To optimize times, we also have to consider how long the average student can focus on a single subject. You can't just add more hours onto a school day and hope the kids will learn more.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 8:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
Politics tend to bring out the worst in people.
Boy, you got THAT right! That and religion, famously, get people's goat.

RWED gets far more threads than any other forum here I believe; largely I think because Firefly is so far in the past (tho' thank you, Science Channel, for running the entire series again; should bring us some new voices!).

Yes, I got you were right, didn't see the "center" quite so much. But that's fine; if you can contribute intelligent and (hopefully) civil discourse to this forum, damn, that would be GREAT!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Friday, June 10, 2011 8:25 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
roads and maintanance, hospitals and medical treatment, welfare payments, mental health services, schools, subsidising tertiary education, courts, police, child protection services, rubbish removal
Made me smile, Magons, given that the things you listed are virtually EXACTLY what Republicans want to cut from the budget lately. Everything from "courts" on is pretty much state or county, but the government is cutting so much from the national budget that states/counties/cities are having to cut THEM, too.

We gotta laugh, or we'd cry... We'll cry anyway, down the line, as these things get less and less funding.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Friday, June 10, 2011 8:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I don't think forcing kids to stand is a viable idea. At least in public school, kids have sports activities, group sports in which home-schooled children don't necessarily participate. I'm not familiar with home schooling to the extent where I know what kind of exercise is, or may, be included in such, but I kind of doubt much emphasis is put on that. So what the alternative might be, I don't know. There's also the fact that kids in public schools have to get up every, what, hour? or so to go from class to class, and in elementary school, get up to write on the blackboard (if it's still done the way it was when I was a kid). All those are little things, but DO manage to change positions between sitting, standing and walking, as Byte has said is useful.

And, given the cuts in education these days, the idea of any sort of ergonmic desks/seating arrangement is pretty unworkable; soon just providing enough books and teachers for children is going to become increasingly hard, it seems to me.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Friday, June 10, 2011 8:36 AM

SKYDIVELIFE


Niki2, you wrote:

" don't think forcing kids to stand is a viable idea. At least in public school, kids have sports activities, group sports in which home-schooled children don't necessarily participate. I'm not familiar with home schooling to the extent where I know what kind of exercise is, or may, be included in such, but I kind of doubt much emphasis is put on that. So what the alternative might be, I don't know. There's also the fact that kids in public schools have to get up every, what, hour? or so to go from class to class, and in elementary school, get up to write on the blackboard (if it's still done the way it was when I was a kid). All those are little things, but DO manage to change positions between sitting, standing and walking, as Byte has said is useful.

And, given the cuts in education these days, the idea of any sort of ergonmic desks/seating arrangement is pretty unworkable; soon just providing enough books and teachers for children is going to become increasingly hard, it seems to me."

It seems to me that if schools were run by the local townships, they would be able to drum up the money for it. Even if the schools were run by a company, then the families could demand that this was instituted.


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Friday, June 10, 2011 8:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just an opinion here, an offered suggestion. No offense intended.
Quote:
Wulfenstar, sounds German like the National Socialist Party. A Hitler fan?

Or are you part of the Grand Oil Party. Hope you make good $$$ or those insurance company death panels will be waiting for you at 65. You can use your Republican reimbursement card to help pay your final costs as its sure not going to be enough to pay your health care costs. Heil Ryan

I encorage you to seek a middle ground and squell the spammer Wulf, who only is trying to piss people off rather than debate. Also, isn't this site about Firefly? Comparisons to the Alliance and Browncoats I understand, but this Wulf guy is just another Rush trying to piss off anybody that disagrees with him.
Terrans, this place is filled with snarks and nasty name calling---it’s actually not as bad as it HAS been at times. May I respectfully suggest you not add yet another voice to that cacophony, which needs no help when it comes to name calling and hate spewing? Generally most of it comes from the right, and you’d be amazed at just HOW nasty it can get, so while it’s understandable to react in kind, and I’m certainly one of those most guilty of same from time to time, I’m just respectfully suggesting you not ally yourself with the worst elements of this forum.

Nobody here gets “squelled” (not sure if that’s a word, is it a cross between quell and squelch? ); there are no moderators on this website, which explains why it can get as ugly as it does (mostly here), so however offensive someone may be, there’s no alternative except to respond or ignore them. Unfortunately.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Friday, June 10, 2011 8:45 AM

DREAMTROVE



Bump

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 9:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


If it's what you meant, yeah, I know, I'm allowed to dream...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Friday, June 10, 2011 9:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Or is that "in your dreams"?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Friday, June 10, 2011 9:29 AM

HARDWARE


I think this will most likely be trunctuated, and I apologize in advance for the length (35 pages in Word.) This is a list of all the offices, committees and commissions in the EXECUTIVE branch. The lists in the Representative and Judicial are equally prodigious.

Which ones do you think we could do without?


Executive Office of the President
President Barack Obama
First Lady Michelle Obama
Vice President Joe Biden
Dr. Jill Biden
The White House Home Page
The President's Cabinet
Executive Departments
Department of Agriculture (USDA)
Department of Commerce (DOC)
Department of Defense (DOD)
Department of Education (ED)
Department of Energy (DOE)
Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)
Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)
Department of Justice (DOJ)
Department of Labor (DOL)
Department of State (DOS)
Department of the Interior (DOI)
Department of the Treasury
Department of Transportation (DOT)
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
Administrative Conference of the United States
Advisory Council on Historic Preservation
African Development Foundation
AMTRAK (National Railroad Passenger Corporation)
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
Commission on Civil Rights
Commodity Futures Trading Commission
Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC)
Corporation for National and Community Service
Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency for the District of Columbia
Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Board
Director of National Intelligence
Election Assistance Commission
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)
Export-Import Bank of the United States
Farm Credit Administration
Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC)
Federal Election Commission (FEC)
Federal Housing Finance Board
Federal Labor Relations Authority
Federal Maritime Commission
Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service
Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission
Federal Reserve System
Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board
Federal Trade Commission (FTC)
General Services Administration (GSA)
Institute of Museum and Library Services
Inter-American Foundation
International Broadcasting Bureau (IBB)
Merit Systems Protection Board
Millennium Challenge Corporation
National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)
National Archives and Records Administration (NARA)
National Capital Planning Commission
National Council on Disability
National Credit Union Administration (NCUA)
National Endowment for the Arts
National Endowment for the Humanities
National Labor Relations Board (NLRB)
National Mediation Board
National Railroad Passenger Corporation (AMTRAK)
National Science Foundation (NSF)
National Transportation Safety Board
Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC)
Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission
Office of Compliance
Office of Government Ethics
Office of Personnel Management
Office of Special Counsel
Office of the Director of National Intelligence
Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive
Overseas Private Investment Corporation
Panama Canal Commission
Peace Corps
Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation
Postal Regulatory Commission
Railroad Retirement Board
Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)
Selective Service System
Small Business Administration (SBA)
Social Security Administration (SSA)
Tennessee Valley Authority
U.S. Trade and Development Agency
United States Agency for International Development
United States International Trade Commission
United States Postal Service (USPS)
Home > Agencies > Federal Executive Branch > Boards, Commissions and Committees
Boards, Commissions and Committees
These organizations were established by congressional or Presidential action, and their functions are not limited to supporting a parent agency.
Administrative Committee of the Federal Register
American Battle Monuments Commission
Appalachian Regional Commission
Architectural and Transportation Barriers Compliance Board (Access Board)
Arctic Research Commission
Arthritis and Musculoskeletal Interagency Coordinating Committee
Barry M. Goldwater Scholarship and Excellence in Education Foundation
Broadcasting Board of Governors (Voice of America, Radio|TV Marti and more)
Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board
Chief Acquisition Officers Council
Chief Financial Officers Council
Chief Human Capital Officers Council
Chief Information Officers Council
Citizens' Stamp Advisory Committee
Commission of Fine Arts
Commission on International Religious Freedom
Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (Helsinki Commission)
Committee for Purchase from People Who Are Blind or Severely Disabled
Committee for the Implementation of Textile Agreements
Committee on Foreign Investments in the United States
Coordinating Council on Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
Delaware River Basin Commission
Denali Commission
Endangered Species Committee
Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board
Federal Advisory Committees
Federal Executive Boards
Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council
Federal Financing Bank
Federal Geographic Data Committee
Federal Interagency Committee for the Management of Noxious and Exotic Weeds
Federal Interagency Committee on Education
Federal Interagency Council on Statistical Policy
Federal Laboratory Consortium for Technology Transfer
Federal Library and Information Center Committee
Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission
Harry S. Truman Scholarship Foundation
Illinois and Michigan Canal National Heritage Corridor Commission
Indian Arts and Crafts Board
Interagency Alternative Dispute Resolution Working Group
Interagency Council on Homelessness
Interstate Commission on the Potomac River Basin
J. William Fulbright Foreign Scholarship Board
James Madison Memorial Fellowship Foundation
Japan-United States Friendship Commission
Joint Board for the Enrollment of Actuaries
Joint Fire Science Program
Marine Mammal Commission
Migratory Bird Conservation Commission
Millennium Challenge Corporation
Mississippi River Commission
Morris K. Udall Foundation: Scholarship and Excellence in National Environmental Policy
National Bipartisan Commission on the Future of Medicare
National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform
National Indian Gaming Commission
National Park Foundation
Northwest Power Planning Council
Nuclear Regulatory Commission
Nuclear Waste Technical Review Board
Presidio Trust
Regulatory Information Service Center
Social Security Advisory Board
Susquehanna River Basin Commission
Taxpayer Advocacy Panel
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
Veterans Day National Committee
Vietnam Educational Foundation
White House Commission on Presidential Scholars – "Presidential Scholars Program"
White House Commission on the National Moment of Remembrance
DOC
2010 Census Advisory Committee

USDA
2010 Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee
DOI
Acadia National Park Advisory Commission

RRB
Actuarial Advisory Committee with respect to the Railroad Retirement Account
DOE
Advanced Scientific Computing Advisory Commttee

BBG
Advisory Board for Cuba Broadcasting
HHS
Advisory Board on Child Abuse and Neglect
HHS
Advisory Board on Elder Abuse, Neglect, and Exploitation
HHS
Advisory Board on Radiation and Worker Health

ED
Advisory Commission on Accessible Instructional Materials in Postsecondary Education for Students with Disabilities

HHS
Advisory Commission on Childhood Vaccines

NSF
Advisory Committee for Biological Sciences
NSF
Advisory Committee for Computer and Information Science and Engineering
NSF
Advisory Committee for Cyberinfrastructure
NSF
Advisory Committee for Education and Human Resources

NSF
Advisory Committee for Engineering

NSF
Advisory Committee for Environmental Research and Education

NSF
Advisory Committee for Geosciences

NSF
Advisory Committee for GPRA Performance Assessment
HHS
Advisory Committee for Injury Prevention and Control
NSF
Advisory Committee for International Science and Engineering
NSF
Advisory Committee for Mathematical and Physical Sciences

HHS
Advisory Committee for Pharmaceutical Science and Clinical Pharmacology

NSF
Advisory Committee for Polar Programs
HHS
Advisory Committee for Reproductive Health Drugs

NSF
Advisory Committee for Social, Behavioral, and Economic Sciences
FCC
Advisory Committee for the 2012 World Radiocommunication Conference

DOS
Advisory Committee for the Study of Eastern Europe and the Independent States of the Former Soviet Union

USTR
Advisory Committee for Trade Policy and Negotiations
HHS
Advisory Committee for Women's Services

TRES
Advisory Committee of the Community Adjustment and Investment Program
EXIM
Advisory Committee of the Export-Import Bank of the United States
TRES
Advisory Committee of the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association

JBEA
Advisory Committee on Actuarial Examinations

USDA
Advisory Committee on Animal Health
DOL
Advisory Committee on Apprenticeship

USDA
Advisory Committee on Beginning Farmers and Ranchers

USDA
Advisory Committee on Biotechnology and 21st Century Agriculture

HHS
Advisory Committee on Blood Safety and Availability

HHS
Advisory Committee on Breast Cancer in Young Women
VA
Advisory Committee on Cemeteries and Memorials

HHS
Advisory Committee on Childhood Lead Poisoning Prevention

DOC
Advisory Committee on Commercial Remote Sensing

DOL
Advisory Committee on Construction Safety and Health

DOS
Advisory Committee on Democracy Promotion
VA
Advisory Committee on Disability Compensation
FCC
Advisory Committee on Diversity for Communications in the Digital Age

DOC
Advisory Committee on Earthquake Hazards Reduction

NARA
Advisory Committee on Electronic Records Archives

USDA
Advisory Committee on Emerging Markets

VA
Advisory Committee on Former Prisoners of War

VA
Advisory Committee on Gulf War Veterans

HHS
Advisory Committee on Head Start Research and Evaluation

HHS
Advisory Committee on Heritable Disorders in Newborns and Children

DOS
Advisory Committee on Historical Diplomatic Documentation

VA
Advisory Committee on Homeless Veterans
HHS
Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices

HHS
Advisory Committee on Infant Mortality
HHS
Advisory Committee on Interdisciplinary, Community-Based Linkages

DOS
Advisory Committee on International Communications and Information Policy

DOS
Advisory Committee on International Economic Policy

DOS
Advisory Committee on International Law

DOS
Advisory Committee on International Postal and Delivery Services

DOL
Advisory Committee on Job Corps
USDA
Advisory Committee on Minority Farmers
HHS
Advisory Committee on Minority Health

VA
Advisory Committee on Minority Veterans

HHS
Advisory Committee on Organ Transplantation

DOS
Advisory Committee on Persons with Disabilities
VA
Advisory Committee on Prosthetics and Special-Disabilities Programs
NRC
Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards

HHS
Advisory Committee on Research on Women's Health

VA
Advisory Committee on Structural Safety of Department of Veterans Affairs Facilities
ED
Advisory Committee on Student Financial Assistance

TRES
Advisory Committee on Tax Exempt and Government Entities
NRC
Advisory Committee on the Medical Uses of Isotopes

NARA
Advisory Committee on the Presidential Library-Foundation Partnerships
VA
Advisory Committee on the Readjustment of Veterans
NARA
Advisory Committee on the Records of Congress

HHS
Advisory Committee on Training in Primary Care Medicine and Dentistry

SBA
Advisory Committee on Veterans Business Affairs
DOL
Advisory Committee on Veterans' Employment and Training and Employer Outreach
DOJ
Advisory Committee on Violence Against Women

AID
Advisory Committee on Voluntary Foreign Aid

DOI
Advisory Committee on Water Information

VA
Advisory Committee on Women Veterans

HHS
Advisory Committee to the Director, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

HHS
Advisory Committee to the Director, National Cancer Institute

HHS
Advisory Committee to the Director, National Institutes of Health

USDA
Advisory Committee to the Provincial Interagency Executive Committees
DOS
Advisory Committee to the U.S. National Section of the Inter-American Tropical Tuna Commission
HHS
Advisory Council for the Elimination of Tuberculosis
HHS
Advisory Council on Blood Stem Cell Transplantation

DOC
Advisory Council on Children's Educational Television
EPA
Advisory Council on Clean Air Compliance Analysis

DOD
Advisory Council on Dependents' Education
DOL
Advisory Council on Employee Welfare and Pension Benefit Plans

HHS
Advisory Council on Hazardous Substances Research and Training
DOT
Advisory Council on Transportation Statistics

HHS
Advisory Group on Prevention, Health Promotion, and Integrative and Public Health

NSF
Advisory Panel for Integrative Activities
HHS
Advisory Panel on Ambulatory Payment Classification Groups

DOD
Advisory Panel on DoD Capabilities for Support of Civil Authorities After Certain Incidents
HHS
Advisory Panel on Medicare Education

DOS
Advisory Panel to the United States Section of the North Pacific Anadromous Fish Commission
NASA
Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel

ADF
African Development Foundation Advisory Council

CFTC
Agricultural Advisory Committee

USDA
Agricultural Policy Advisory Committee for Trade
USDA
Agricultural Technical Advisory Committee for Trade in Animal and Animal Products
USDA
Agricultural Technical Advisory Committee for Trade in Fruits and Vegetables
USDA
Agricultural Technical Advisory Committee for Trade in Grain, Feed, and Oilseeds
USDA
Agricultural Technical Advisory Committee for Trade in Processed Foods
USDA
Agricultural Technical Advisory Committee for Trade in Sweeteners
USDA
Agricultural Technical Advisory Committee for Trade in Tobacco, Cotton, and Peanuts
HHS
AIDS and Related Research Integrated Review Group

HHS
AIDS Research Advisory Committee, NIAID

DOT
Air Traffic Procedures Advisory Committee

DOD
Air University Board of Visitors

CCR
Alabama Advisory Committee
NSF
Alan T. Waterman Award Committee

CCR
Alaska Advisory Committee
DOI
Alaska Resource Advisory Council

DOI
Albuquerque District Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Allegheny Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Allergenic Products Advisory Committee

HHS
Allergy, Immunology, and Transplantation Research Committee

USDA
Alpine County Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Amador County Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Anesthetic and Life Support Drugs Advisory Committee

HHS
Anti-Infective Drugs Advisory Committee

HHS
Antiviral Drugs Advisory Committee

DOI
Aquatic Nuisance Species Task Force

CCR
Arizona Advisory Committee
DOI
Arizona Resource Advisory Council

CCR
Arkansas Advisory Committee
DOD
Army Education Advisory Committee
DOD
Army National Cemeteries Advisory Committee
TRES
Art Advisory Panel of the Commissioner of Internal Revenue
HHS
Arthritis Advisory Committee

HHS
Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases Special Grants Review Committee

NEA
Arts Advisory Panel
FCAH
Arts and Artifacts Indemnity Panel
USDA
Ashley Resource Advisory Committee

ACUS
Assembly of the Administrative Conference of the United States

NSF
Astronomy and Astrophysics Advisory Committee
SBA
Audit and Financial Management Advisory Committee
DOT
Aviation Rulemaking Advisory Committee

DHS
Aviation Security Advisory Committee

DOE
Basic Energy Sciences Advisory Committee
DOI
Big Cypress National Preserve Off-Road Vehicle Advisory Committee

USDA
Bighorn Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Biobehavioral and Behavioral Processes Integrated Review Group

HHS
Bioengineering Sciences & Technologies Integrated Review Group

DOE
Biological and Environmental Research Advisory Committee

HHS
Biological Chemistry and Macromolecular Biophysics Integrated Review Group

HHS
Biology of Development and Aging Integrated Review Group

DOE
Biomass Research and Development Technical Advisory Committee

HHS
Biomedical Library and Informatics Review Committee

USDA
Black Hills National Forest Advisory Board

HHS
Blood Products Advisory Committee

DOE
Blue Ribbon Commission on America's Nuclear Future

AID
Board for International Food and Agricultural Development

DOD
Board of Advisors to the President, Naval Postgraduate School
DOD
Board of Advisors to the Presidents of the Naval Postgraduate School and the Naval War College
DOC
Board of Overseers of the Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award

HHS
Board of Regents of the National Library of Medicine

DOD
Board of Regents, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences

HHS
Board of Scientifc Counselors, National Center for Environmental Health/Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry

HHS
BOARD OF SCIENTIFIC COUNSELORS EUNICE KENNEDY SHRIVER NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF CHILD HEALTH AND HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors for Basic Sciences, National Cancer Institute

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors for Clinical Sciences and Epidemiology, National Cancer Institute

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors National Center for Biotechnology Information National Library of Medicine

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors National Center for Health Statistics

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors National Center for Public Health Informatics

HHS
BOARD OF SCIENTIFIC COUNSELORS NATIONAL CENTER ON BIRTH DEFECTS AND DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES AND NATIONAL CENTER FOR CHRONIC DISEASE PREVENTION AND HEALTH PROMOTION
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors National Human Genome Research Institute
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors of the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors of the NIH Clinical Center

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors Office of Infectious Diseases

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, Lister Hill National Center for Biomedical Communications, National Library of Medicine

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Center for Health Marketing
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Eye Institute
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Biomedical Imaging and Bioengineering

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Mental Health

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute on Aging
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders

HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, National Institute on Drug Abuse
HHS
Board of Scientific Counselors, Office of Public Health Preparedness and Response

DOD
Board of Visitors for the National Defense Intelligence College

DHS
Board of Visitors for the National Fire Academy

DOD
Board of Visitors for the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation
DOD
Board of Visitors of the U.S. Air Force Academy

DOD
Board of Visitors, Marine Corps University
DOD
Board of Visitors, National Defense University
DOD
Board on Coastal Engineering Research

DOI
Boise District Resource Advisory Council

DOI
Boston Harbor Islands National Recreation Area Advisory Council

HHS
Brain Disorders and Clinical Neuroscience Integrated Review Group

HHS
Breast and Cervical Cancer Early Detection and Control Advisory Committee
USDA
Bridger-Teton Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Bristol Bay Subsistence Regional Advisory Council

SBA
Buffalo District Advisory Council
DOC
Bureau of Economic Analysis Advisory Committee

DOI
Bureau of Indian Affairs Advisory Board for Exceptional Children

DOL
Bureau of Labor Statistics Data Users Advisory Committee

DOC
Bureau of the Census Scientific Advisory Committee

NSF
Business and Operations Advisory Committee

USDA
Butte County Resource Advisory Committee

CCR
California Advisory Committee
USDA
California Coast Provincial Advisory Committee
DOI
California Desert District Advisory Council

DOI
Cape Cod National Seashore Advisory Commission

DOI
Captain John Smith Chesapeake National Historic Trail Advisory Council
HHS
Cardiovascular and Renal Drugs Advisory Committee

HHS
Cardiovascular and Respiratory Sciences Integrated Review Group

DOI
Carrizo Plain National Monument Advisory Committee

HHS
CDC/HRSA Advisory Committee on HIV and STD Prevention and Treatment
DOI
CEDAR CREEK AND BELLE GROVE NATIONAL HISTORICAL PARK

HHS
Cell Biology Integrated Review Group

HHS
Cellular Tissue and Gene Therapies Advisory Committee

DOC
Census Advisory Committee on the African-American Population

DOC
Census Advisory Committee on the American Indian and Alaska Native Populations

DOC
Census Advisory Committee on the Asian Population

DOC
Census Advisory Committee on the Hispanic Population

DOC
Census Advisory Committee on the Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander Populations

HHS
Center for Inherited Disease Research Access Committee
HHS
Center for Mental Health Services National Advisory Council

HHS
Center for Scientific Review Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
Center for Substance Abuse Prevention Drug Testing Advisory Board

HHS
Center for Substance Abuse Prevention National Advisory Council
HHS
Center for Substance Abuse Treatment National Advisory Council

DOI
Central California Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Central Idaho Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Central Montana Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Central Montana Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Chequamegon Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Cherokee Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Chesapeake and Ohio Canal National Historical Park Commission
DOD
Chief of Engineers Environmental Advisory Board

DOD
Chief of Naval Operations Executive Panel
HHS
Children's Health Insurance Program Working Group

EPA
Children's Health Protection Advisory Committee

USDA
Chippewa National Forest Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Advisory Committee

DOC
Civil Nuclear Trade Advisory Committee
CNCS
Civilian Community Corps Advisory Board

EPA
Clean Air Act Advisory Committee

EPA
Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee

HHS
Clinical Laboratory Improvement Advisory Committee

VA
Clinical Science Research and Development Service Cooperative Studies Scientific Evaluation Committee
USDA
Coconino County Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Coeur dAlene District Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Collaborative Forest Landscape Restoration Advisory Committee
USDA
Collaborative Forest Restoration Program Technical Advisory Panel

CCR
Colorado Advisory Committee
USDA
Colorado Recreation Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Colorado River Basin Salinity Control Advisory Council
USDA
Columbia County Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Colville Resource Advisory Committee

DOT
Commercial Drivers License Task Force
DHS
Commercial Fishing Industry Vessel Safety Advisory Committee

DOT
Commercial Motor Vehicle Safety Regulatory Review Panel
DOT
Commercial Space Transportation Advisory Committee

DOI
Committee for the Preservation of the White House
DOC
Committee of Chairs of the Industry Trade Advisory Committees

MMC
Committee of Scientific Advisors on Marine Mammals

NSF
Committee on Equal Opportunities in Science and Engineering

ED
Committee on Measures of Student Success

HHS
Communication Disorders Review Committee

TRES
Community Development Advisory Board

CCR
Connecticut Advisory Committee
FCC
Consumer Advisory Committee

HHS
Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan CO-OP Advisory Board
DOJ
Coordinating Council on Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention

DOI
Coos Bay District Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Council of Councils

HHS
Council on Graduate Medical Education

SBA
Council on Underserved Communites
DOJ
Criminal Justice Information Services Advisory Policy Board

DOS
Cultural Property Advisory Committee

USDA
Custer County Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Dairy Industry Advisory Committee

DOI
Dakotas Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Daniel Boone Resource Advisory Committee

DHS
Data Privacy and Integrity Advisory Committee

USDA
Davy Crockett Resource Advisory Committee

DOD
Defense Acquisition University Board of Visitors

DOD
Defense Advisory Board for Employer Partnership
DOD
Defense Advisory Committee on Military Personnel Testing
DOD
Defense Business Board

DOD
Defense Department Advisory Committee on Women in the Services

DOD
Defense Health Board

DOD
Defense Intelligence Agency Advisory Board
DOD
Defense Policy Board
DOD
Defense Science Board

DOD
Defense Task Force on Sexual Assault in the Military Services

DOS
Defense Trade Advisory Group

USDA
Del Norte County Resource Advisory Committee

CCR
Delaware Advisory Committee
DHS
Delaware River and Bay Oil Spill Advisory Committee

DOI
Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area Citizen Advisory Commission

USDA
Delta-Bienville Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Denali National Park and Preserve Aircraft Overflights Advisory Council

DOD
Department of Defense Audit Advisory Committee
DOD
Department of Defense Board of Actuaries
DOD
Department of Defense Historical Advisory Committee
DOD
Department of Defense Medicare-Eligible Retiree Health Care Board of Actuaries
DOD
Department of Defense Military Family Readiness Council
DOD
Department of Defense Task Force on the Care, Management, and Transition of Recovering Wounded, Ill, and Injured Members of the Armed Forces
DOD
Department of Defense Wage Committee
VA
Department of Veterans Affairs Voluntary Service National Advisory Committee
DHS
Departmental Advisory Committee on Commercial Operations of Customs and Border Protection and Related Functions

HHS
Dermatologic and Ophthalmic Drugs Advisory Committee

USDA
Deschutes and Ochoco Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Deschutes Provincial Advisory Committee

USDA
DeSoto Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Device Good Manufacturing Practice Advisory Committee

HHS
Digestive, Kidney and Urological Systems Integrated Review Group

HHS
Director's Council of Public Representatives

HHS
Disease, Disability, and Injury Prevention and Control Special Emphasis Panel

CCR
District of Columbia Advisory Committee
HHS
Division of Intramural Research Board of Scientific Counselors National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases

USDA
Dixie Resource Advisory Committee

DOE
DOE/NSF Nuclear Science Advisory Committee

DOI
Dominguez-Escalante National Conservation Area Advisory Council

HHS
Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee

EAC
EAC Board of Advisors

EAC
EAC Standards Board

USDA
Eastern Arizona Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Eastern Idaho Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Eastern Interior Alaska Subsistence Regional Advisory Council

DOI
Eastern Montana Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Eastern Region Recreation Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Eastern Washington Cascades Provincial Advisory Committee
DOI
Eastern Washington Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Edward R. Madigan United States Agricultural Export Excellence Board of Evaluators
USDA
El Dorado County Resource Advisory Committee

DOE
Electricity Advisory Committee

TRES
Electronic Tax Administration Advisory Committee

USDA
Eleven Point Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Elko Resource Advisory Committee

FCC
Emergency Response Interoperability Center Public Safety Advisory Committee
HHS
Emerging Technologies and Training Neurosciences Integrated Review Group

DOC
Emerging Technology and Research Advisory Committee

FRTIB
Employee Thrift Advisory Council
HHS
End-Stage Renal Disease Data Advisory Committee, HCFA, NIDDK

HHS
Endocrinologic and Metabolic Drugs Advisory Committee

HHS
Endocrinology, Metabolism, Nutrition and Reproductive Sciences Integrated Review Group

CFTC
Energy and Environmental Markets Advisory Committee
EPA
Environmental Financial Advisory Board

HHS
Environmental Health Sciences Review Committee

EPA
Environmental Laboratory Advisory Board

DOE
Environmental Management Advisory Board

DOE
Environmental Management Site-Specific Advisory Board

USDA
Environmental Services Advisory Committee
DOC
Environmental Technologies Trade Advisory Committee

EPA
EPA Board of Scientific Counselors

EPA
EPA Science Advisory Board

DOI
Eugene District Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Eunice Kennedy Shriver National Institute of Child Health and Human Development Initial Review Group

HHS
Eunice Kennedy Shriver National Institute of Child Health and Human Development Special Emphasis Panel

DHS
Expert Panel on Cost Estimating for the Public Assistance Program

DOC
Exporters' Textile Advisory Committee

DOI
Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Public Advisory Committee

EPA
Farm,Ranch, and Rural Communities Advisory Committee

DOI
Farmington District Resource Advisory Council

FCC
FCC's Communications Security, Reliability and Interoperability Council

FDIC
FDIC Advisory Committee on Community Banking

FDIC
FDIC Advisory Committee on Economic Inclusion

FASAB
Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board

NEA
Federal Advisory Committee on International Exhibitions
DOL
Federal Advisory Council on Occupational Safety and Health

HHS
Federal Council on the Aging
DOL
Federal Economic Statistics Advisory Committee
HHS
Federal Hospital Council
EPA
Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act Scientific Advisory Panel

OPM
Federal Prevailing Rate Advisory Committee

OPM
Federal Salary Council

USDA
Fishlake Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Flathead Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Flight 93 Advisory Commission

CCR
Florida Advisory Committee
USDA
Florida National Forests Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Fogarty International Center Advisory Board

HHS
Food Advisory Committee

USDA
Forest Resource Coordinating Committee
USDA
Forestry Research Advisory Council
NARA
Founding Fathers Advisory Committee
USDA
Francis Marion-Sumter Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Fremont and Winema Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Fresno County Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Front Range Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Fruit and Vegetable Industry Advisory Committee

DOE
Fusion Energy Sciences Advisory Committee

SSA
Future Systems Technology Advisory Panel

USDA
Gallatin Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Gastrointestinal Drugs Advisory Committee

USDA
General Conference Committee of the National Poultry Improvement Plan
HHS
Genes, Genomes, and Genetic Sciences Integrated Review Group

VA
Genomic Medicine Program Advisory Committee
CCR
Georgia Advisory Committee
VA
Geriatrics and Gerontology Advisory Committee
DOI
Gettysburg National Military Park Advisory Commission
DOI
Gila Box Riparian National Conservation Area Advisory Committee
DOI
Glen Canyon Dam Adaptive Management Work Group

USDA
Glenn and Colusa Counties Resource Advisory Committee

DOJ
Global Justice Information Sharing Initiative Advisory Committee

CFTC
Global Markets Advisory Committee

USDA
Gogebic Resource Advisory Committee

EPA
Good Neighbor Environmental Board

EPA
Governmental Advisory Committee to the United States Representative to the North American Commission for Environmental Cooperation

USDA
Grain Inspection Advisory Committee

USDA
Grand Mesa Uncompahgre Gunnison Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument Advisory Committee
DHS
Great Lakes Pilotage Advisory Committee

EPA
Gulf of Mexico Executive Council

CCR
Hawaii Advisory Committee
HHS
Health Care Policy and Research Special Emphasis Panel
VA
Health Services Research and Development Service Scientific Merit Review Board

HHS
Health Services Research Initial Review Group
HHS
Healthcare Delivery and Methodologies Integrated Review Group

HHS
Healthcare Infection Control Practices Advisory Committee

HHS
Heart, Lung, and Blood Initial Review Group

USDA
Hiawatha Resource Advisory Committee

DOE
High Energy Physics Advisory Panel

ED
Historically Black Colleges and Universities Capital Financing Advisory Board

HHS
HIT Policy Committee

HHS
HIT Standards Committee

DOS
HIV/AIDS Prevention of Mother to Child Transmission Expert Panel

USDA
Holly Springs-Tombigbee Resource Advisory Committee

DHS
Homeland Security Advisory Council

DHS
Homeland Security Information Network Advisory Committee

DHS
Homeland Security Science and Technology Advisory Committee

USDA
Hood and Willamette Resource Advisory Committee

SBA
Houston District Advisory Council

DHS
Houston-Galveston Navigation Safety Advisory Committee

EPA
Human Studies Review Board

NEH
Humanities Panel
USDA
Humboldt County Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Humboldt NV Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Huron-Manistee Resource Advisory Committee

DOE
Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Technical Advisory Committee

DOE
Hydrogen Technical Advisory Panel

DOC
Hydrographic Services Review Panel

CCR
Idaho Advisory Committee
DOI
Idaho Falls District Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Idaho Panhandle Resource Advisory Committee

CCR
Illinois Advisory Committee
HHS
Immunology Integrated Review Group

DOD
Independent Review of Judge Advocate Requirements of the Department of the Navy

CCR
Indiana Advisory Committee
DOS
Industry Advisory Panel

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Aerospace Equipment

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Automotive Equipment and Capital Goods

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Chemicals, Pharmaceuticals, Health Science Products and Services

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Consumer Goods

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Customs Matters and Trade Facilitation

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Distribution Services

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Energy and Energy Services

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Forest Products

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Information and Communications Technologies, Services, and Electronic Commerce

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Intellectual Property Rights

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Nonferrous Metals and Building Materials

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Services and Finance

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Small and Minority Business

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Standards and Technical Trade Barriers

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Steel

DOC
Industry Trade Advisory Committee on Textiles and Clothing

HHS
Infectious Diseases and Microbiology Integrated Review Group

TRES
Information Reporting Program Advisory Committee

DOC
Information Security and Privacy Advisory Board

DOC
Information Systems Technical Advisory Committee

DOD
Inland Waterways Users Board

HHS
Integrative, Functional and Cognitive Neuroscience Integrated Review Group

DOT
Intelligent Transportation Systems Program Advisory Committee

HHS
Interagency Autism Coordinating Committee

HHS
Interagency Breast Cancer and Environmental Research Coordinating Committee

HHS
Interagency Committee on Smoking and Health

HHS
Interagency Pain Research Coordinating Committee
SBA
Interagency Task Force on Veterans Small Business Development
HHS
Interdisciplinary Molecular Sciences and Training Integrated Review Group
USTR
Intergovernmental Policy Advisory Committee on Trade
TRES
Internal Revenue Service Advisory Council

DOS
International Security Advisory Board

NASA
International Space Station Advisory Committee
NASA
International Space Station National Laboratory Advisory Committee
DOI
Invasive Species Advisory Committee

CCR
Iowa Advisory Committee
TRES
IRS Taxpayer Advocacy Panel

DOI
Jimmy Carter National Historic Site Advisory Commission

DOI
John Day-Snake Resource Advisory Council

VA
Joint Biomedical Laboratory Research and Development and Clinical Science Research and Development Services Scientific Merit Review Board
CFTC
Joint CFTC-SEC Advisory Committee on Emerging Regulatory Issues
DOC
Judges Panel of the Malcolm Baldrige National Quality Award
USDA
Juneau Resource Advisory Committee

DOJ
Juvenile Justice Advisory Committee

DOI
Kalaupapa National Historical Park Advisory Commission
CCR
Kansas Advisory Committee
USDA
Kenai Penisula--Anchorage Borough

CCR
Kentucky Advisory Committee
USDA
Kern and Tulare Counties Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Ketchikan Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Kistachie Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Kodiak/Aleutians Subsistence Regional Advisory Council

DOL
Labor Advisory Committee for Trade Negotiations and Trade Policy

USDA
Lake County Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Lake Champlain Sea Lamprey Control Alternatives Workgroup
USDA
Lake Tahoe Basin Federal Advisory Committee

USDA
Land Between the Lakes Advisory Board

DOI
Las Cruces District Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Lassen County Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Lawrence Resource Advisory Committee

NRC
Licensing Support System Advisory Review Panel
USDA
Lincoln Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Literature Selection Technical Review Committee

EPA
Local Government Advisory Committee

CCR
Louisiana Advisory Committee
DHS
Lower Mississippi River Waterway Safety Advisory Committee

USDA
Lynn Canal-Icy Strait Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Lyon-Mineral Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Madera Resource Advisory Committee

CCR
Maine Advisory Committee
USDA
Manti-La Sal Resource Advisory Committee

HUD
Manufactured Housing Concensus Committee

DOC
Manufacturing Council

DOC
Manufacturing Extension Partnership Advisory Board

DOC
Marine Fisheries Advisory Committee

DOC
Marine Protected Areas Federal Advisory Committee

DOL
Maritime Advisory Committee for Occupational Safety and Health
DOI
Mary McLeod Bethune Council House National Historic Site Advisory Commission
CCR
Maryland Advisory Committee
CCR
Massachusetts Advisory Committee
DOC
Materials Processing Equipment Technical Advisory Committee

DOC
Materials Technical Advisory Committee

DOI
McInnis Canyons National Conservation Area Advisory Council

DOJ
Medal of Valor Review Board

DOI
Medford District Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
Medical Devices Advisory Committee

DOT
Medical Review Board Advisory Committee

HHS
Medicare Evidence Development Coverage Advisory Committee

USDA
Medicine Bow-Routt Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
Mendocino County Resource Advisory Committe

DHS
Merchant Marine Personnel Advisory Committee

DHS
Merchant Mariner Medical Advisory Committee
DOE
Methane Hydrate Advisory Committee
CCR
Michigan Advisory Committee
USDA
Michigan and Wisconsin Scenic Rivers Study Committees
HHS
Microbiology, Infectious Diseases and AIDS Initial Review Group

DOD
Military Leadership Diversity Commission

HHS
Mine Safety and Health Research Advisory Committee
USDA
Mineral County Resource Advisory Committee

CCR
Minnesota Advisory Committee
DOT
Minority Business Resource Center Advisory Committee
DOD
Missile Defense Advisory Committee
CCR
Mississippi Advisory Committee
USDA
Missoula Resource Advisory Committee

CCR
Missouri Advisory Committee
USDA
Missouri River Resource Advisory Committee

DOD
Missouri River--North Dakota Task Force
DOD
Missouri River--South Dakota--Task Force
USDA
Modoc County Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Mojave-Southern Great Basin Resource Advisory Council

HHS
Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Neuroscience Integrated Review Group

CCR
Montana Advisory Committee
DOT
Motor Carrier Safety Advisory Committee

DOT
Motorcyclist Advisory Council

GSA
Multiple Award Schedule Advisory Panel

HHS
Muscular Dystrophy Coordinating Committee

HHS
Musculoskeletal, Oral, and Skin Sciences Integrated Review Group

NASA
NASA Advisory Council

HHS
National Advisory Allergy and Infectious Diseases Council

HHS
National Advisory Board for Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases

HHS
National Advisory Board on Medical Rehabilitation Research

HHS
National Advisory Child Health and Human Development Council

EPA
National Advisory Committee for Acute Exposure Guideline Levels for Hazardous Substances

USDA
National Advisory Committee for Tobacco Inspection Services
ED
National Advisory Committee on Institutional Quality and Integrity

USDA
National Advisory Committee on Meat and Poultry Inspection

USDA
National Advisory Committee on Microbiological Criteria for Foods

DOL
National Advisory Committee on Occupational Safety and Health

HHS
National Advisory Committee on Rural Health and Human Services

EPA
National Advisory Committee to the United States Representative to the North American Commission for Environmental Cooperation

SBA
National Advisory Council
HHS
National Advisory Council for Biomedical Imaging and Bioengineering

HHS
National Advisory Council for Complementary and Alternative Medicine

EPA
National Advisory Council for Environmental Policy and Technology

HHS
National Advisory Council for Healthcare Research and Quality

HHS
National Advisory Council for Human Genome Research

HHS
National Advisory Council for Nursing Research

HHS
National Advisory Council on Aging
HHS
National Advisory Council on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism

HHS
National Advisory Council on Drug Abuse
ED
National Advisory Council on Indian Education

DOC
National Advisory Council on Innovation and Entrepreneurship
USDA
National Advisory Council on Maternal, Infant, and Fetal Nutrition
HHS
National Advisory Council on Migrant Health

DOC
National Advisory Council on Minority Business Enterprise
HHS
National Advisory Council on Minority Health and Health Disparities

HHS
National Advisory Council on Nurse Education and Practice

HHS
National Advisory Council on the National Health Service Corps

HHS
National Advisory Dental and Craniofacial Research Council

HHS
National Advisory Environmental Health Sciences Council

HHS
National Advisory Eye Council
HHS
National Advisory General Medical Sciences Council
HHS
National Advisory Mental Health Council

HHS
National Advisory Neurological Disorders and Stroke Council

HHS
National Advisory Research Resources Council

USDA
National Agricultural Research, Extension, Education, and Economics Advisory Board

HHS
National Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases Advisory Council

HHS
National Biodefense Science Board

ED
National Board for Education Sciences

ED
National Board of the Fund for the Improvement of Postsecondary Education

DHS
National Boating Safety Advisory Council

HHS
National Cancer Advisory Board

HHS
National Cancer Institute Board of Scientific Advisors

HHS
National Cancer Institute Clinical Trials and Translational Research Advisory Committee

HHS
National Cancer Institute Director's Consumer Liaison Group

HHS
National Cancer Institute Initial Review Group

HHS
National Cancer Institute Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Center for Injury Prevention and Control Initial Review Group
HHS
National Center for Research Resources Initial Review Group

HHS
National Center for Research Resources Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Center On Minority Health And Health Disparities SPECIAL EMPHASIS PANEL

HHS
National Children's Study Advisory Committee

DOE
National Coal Council

HHS
National Commission on Alcoholism and Other Alcohol-Related Problems
HHS
National Commission on Children and Disasters

NCFRR
National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform

DOE
National Commission on the BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill and Offshore Drilling

HHS
National Committee on Vital and Health Statistics

DOC
National Construction Safety Team Advisory Committee
DOI
National Cooperative Geologic Mapping Program
OPM
National Council on Federal Labor-Management Relations

NEA
National Council on the Arts
NEH
National Council on the Humanities
HHS
National Deafness and Other Communication Disorders Advisory Board
HHS
National Deafness and Other Communication Disorders Advisory Council

HHS
National Diabetes Advisory Board

HHS
National Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases Advisory Council

HHS
National Digestive Diseases Advisory Board

EPA
National Drinking Water Advisory Council

DOI
National Earthquake Prediction Evaluation Council

DOT
National Emergency Medical Services Advisory Council

EPA
National Environmental Education Advisory Council

EPA
National Environmental Justice Advisory Council

HHS
National Eye Institute Special Emphasis Panel
USDA
National Genetic Resources Advisory Council

DOI
National Geospatial Advisory Committee

STB
National Grain Car Council

HHS
National Heart, Lung, and Blood Advisory Council

HHS
National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute Special Emphasis Panel

DOT
National Highway Safety Advisory Committee
DOI
National Historic Oregon Trail Interpretive Center Advisory Board

HHS
National Human Genome Research Institute Initial Review Group
HHS
National Human Genome Research Institute Special Emphasis Panel
NARA
National Industrial Security Program Policy Advisory Committee

DHS
National Infrastructure Advisory Council

ED
National Institute for Literacy Advisory Board

HHS
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute of Biomedical Imaging and Bioengineering Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research Special Grants Review Committee

HHS
National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases Initial Review Group

HHS
National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute of General Medical Sciences Initial Review Group
HHS
National Institute of General Medical Sciences Special Emphasis Panel
HHS
National Institute of Mental Health Initial Review Group

HHS
National Institute of Mental Health Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke Initial Review Group

HHS
National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute of Nursing Research Initial Review Group

HHS
National Institute of Nursing Research Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute on Aging Initial Review Group
HHS
National Institute on Aging Special Emphasis Panel
HHS
National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism Initial Review Group
HHS
National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism Special Emphasis Panel
HHS
National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Institute on Drug Abuse Initial Review Group
HHS
National Institute on Drug Abuse Special Emphasis Panel
HHS
National Institutes of Health Peer Review Advisory Committee

HHS
National Kidney and Urologic Diseases Advisory Board

HHS
National Library of Medicine Special Emphasis Panel

HHS
National Mammography Quality Assurance Advisory Committee

DHS
National Maritime Security Advisory Committee

DOC
National Medal of Technology and Innovation Nomination Evaluation Committee

DOJ
National Motor Vehicle Title Information System Advisory Board

DHS
National Offshore Safety Advisory Committee

USDA
National Organic Standards Board

DOI
National Park of American Samoa Advisory Board
DOI
National Park Service Concessions Management Advisory Board

DOI
National Park Service Subsistence Resource Commission-Aniakchak National Monument
DOI
National Park Service Subsistence Resource Commission-Cape Krusenstern National Monument
DOI
National Park Service Subsistence Resource Commission-Denali National Park
DOI
National Park Service Subsistence Resource Commission-Gates of the Arctic National Park
DOI
National Park Service Subsistence Resource Commission-Kobuk Valley National Park
DOI
National Park Service Subsistence Resource Commission-Lake Clark National Park

DOI
National Park Service Subsistence Resource Commission-Wrangell-St. Elias National Park
DOI
National Park System Advisory Board
DOE
National Petroleum Council

VA
National Research Advisory Council
HHS
National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity

DOC
National Sea Grant Advisory Board

DOD
National Security Education Board
SBA
National Small Business Development Center Advisory Board
NASA
National Space-Based Positioning, Navigation, and Timing Advisory Board

ED
National Technical Advisory Council

DOC
National Technical Information Service Advisory Board

HHS
National Toxicology Program Board of Scientific Counselors
HHS
National Toxicology Program Special Emphasis Panel
USDA
National Urban and Community Forestry Advisory Council

HHS
National Vaccine Advisory Committee

USDA
National Wildlife Services Advisory Committee
SBA
National Women's Business Council

DOL
Native American Employment and Training Council
DOI
Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Review Committee

DOD
Naval Research Advisory Committee

DHS
Navigation Safety Advisory Council

CCR
Nebraska Advisory Committee
HHS
Negotiated Rulemaking Committee on Designation of Medically Underserved Populations and Health Professional Shortage Areas

HHS
Neurological Sciences Training Initial Review Group

CCR
Nevada Advisory Committee
USDA
Nevada and Placer Counties Resource Advisory Committee

CCR
New Hampshire Advisory Committee
CCR
New Jersey Advisory Committee
CCR
New Mexico Advisory Committee
DOI
New Mexico Resource Advisory Council

CCR
New York Advisory Committee
USDA
Nicolet Resource Advisory Committee

HHS
NIH Advisory Board for Clinical Research

DOC
NIST Smart Grid Advisory Committee
DOI
No Child Left Behind School Facilities and Construction Negotiated Rulemaking Committee

DOC
NOAA Science Advisory Board

HHS
Nonprescription Drugs Advisory Committee

FCC
North American Numbering Council

CCR
North Carolina Advisory Committee
USDA
North Central Idaho Resource Advisory Committee

CCR
North Dakota Advisory Committee
SBA
North Florida District Advisory Council
USDA
North Gifford Pinchot Resource Advisory Committee

USDA
North Mt. Baker-Snoqualmie Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
North Slope Science Technical Group

DOI
North Slope Subsistence Regional Advisory Council

USDA
Northeast Oregon Forests Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Northeastern California Resource Advisory Council

DOI
Northeastern Great Basin Resource Advisory Council

USDA
Northern New Mexico Resource Advisory Committee

DOI
Northwest Arctic Subsistence Regional Advisory Council

DOI
Northwest Resource Advisory Council

DOI
Northwestern California Resource Advisory Council

DOE
Nuclear Energy Advisory Committee

SSA
Occupational Information Development Advisory Panel

DOD
Ocean Research Advisory Panel

HHS
Office of AIDS Research Advisory Council
CCR
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The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, June 10, 2011 9:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Sky, "local townships" coming up with funding is a great idea. Unfortunately, where I live, EVERY school has a board posted somewhere with some kind of cute graphic showing how much they've received in donations. You know, like a thermometer with a goal at the top and filled in with red as the money comes in. They've lost so many programs they're trying to finance and are turning to the population for help. Ergo, government funding isn't doing the job NOW, and we've been hit with so many more cuts in the last year or two, it's falling behind more and more. In other words, they're drumming up as much money as they can NOW to fill the gap, how much more do you think they can get in an economy such as ours currently?

Gawd, the imagination boggles at the concept of schools run by a private enterprise. I won't even go there...the government is doing a poor enough job, and will do less as Republicans work for more and more cuts; the ways in which a private enterprise could screw it up even WORSE (as I assume it would be a for-profit enterprise) are beyond my imagination!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Friday, June 10, 2011 10:16 AM

SKYDIVELIFE


Niki2,

I just have a hard time believing that local communities cannot do the job correctly. After all, its their children that they are doing for.

Now in big cities, this might not work as well. Maybe you can set some sort of co-op by block? Create neighborhoods/communities from certain groupings?

From 180th to 190th street is a community?

Could that work?

I've read here that some have a problem with corporations. I agree for the most part in that they are so powerful that they can set the standard.

But, when you look at things like cable companies, internet providers etc.. if they do NOT provide the service you desire... you are free to choose another company.

Why can't that work in terms of education? Or water? Or road management?

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Friday, June 10, 2011 10:50 AM

DREAMTROVE


Niki

I was agreeing with Frem


Hardware,

I'd start with the first one.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 11:07 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


In the end, people like Nix argue to be peasants.

Her and their ilk, WANT to be ruled by an "elite".

I just can't stomach it.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, June 10, 2011 11:19 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
I think this will most likely be trunctuated, and I apologize in advance for the length (35 pages in Word.) This is a list of all the offices, committees and commissions in the EXECUTIVE branch. The lists in the Representative and Judicial are equally prodigious.



Yo, Hardware, nice list.

What was the source of it?

And how much did they cheat?

I found AMTRAK listed twice- as AMTRAK and National Passenger Railroad Corp. ( Trains ARE a hobby of mine, a special interest you could say, so I spotted that one.)

And if they organized the list by categories or departments, to eliminate all the duplicate headings and extra double spaces , ( How many times is USDA listed, each time with an extra blank line-- I usedta work in a USDA inspected meat packing plant, so that's another personal special interest of mine, so easy to catch.) the list wouldn't be padded nearly so much.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 11:20 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:
Which ones do you think we could do without?

I don't know, amigo. It depends what you mean by 'do without'. As I said above, you and I have different criteria for whether government programmes/offices are worthwhile. If you mean how many from your list could we remove before the country starts to completely fall apart at the seams, I would guess maybe 95% (that's not the same as 95% of funding mind). If you mean how many could we remove without it being detrimental to the country (in more subtle ways), I would say much less. I think all of the committees etc on your list have a theoretical 'raison d'etre'; and most of them are fulfilling some of that, and subtly benefiting society.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 12:17 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:
Originally posted by SkyDiveLife:


It seems to me that if schools were run by the local townships, they would be able to drum up the money for it.


Can't speak for the other 49 states, but that was the way it WAS here in California, before Prop 13.
Local communities banded together in school districts, set local property tax rates, financed the schools the way they wanted to, within certain broad federal and state limits. Even then, a lot of the budget money came from the state. Along came Prop 13, capped local communities' ability to raise property taxes. They didn't, and still don't, have a lot of other sources of income under California law. So the state stepped in, gave them tons of money, kept the schools open and functioning. But, "Them that provides the gold, makes the rules." So the state started overseeing things, and making rules and regulations for the schools, not all of which were a good fit to every community.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 1:52 PM

HARDWARE


This came from the US government's own website. I copied and pasted into a Word document. If they have it listed twice on two separate pages, then errors definitely could occur.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, June 10, 2011 1:57 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
cable companies, internet providers etc


Why have either? They are only a constrain on my access to information, especially if they're the censoring sort, and I don't trust them much whatsoever. We're talking real propaganda and thought control here.

I'm all about people finding ways to hook themselves up with whatever they need. I'm talking self-service. Like individualized energy needs, with solarpanels on your house and a small $200 algae biofuel distiller vat in your backyard or garage.

Not so much corporations are ALL bad, they're just a way of organizing. But the big predatory ones that can just squelch all opposition business aren't so good. What motivation do you have to be better than everyone else if you can just afford to market more or buy out anyone who could put up a fight? This is why I like small, and local. Plenty of ways that you can organize within a small local business without creating a monster that can shrug off local economics, incentives, or public outcry.

There are some minor problems I don't agree with regarding the top down organization of corporations, but then I've always been a bit of an anti-authoritarian. Doesn't mean that it's automatically bad, or will become corrupt, though like anything with hierarchical structure, you have to be careful.

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Friday, June 10, 2011 2:36 PM

TERRAN57


SygnyM: Agree with them because their right more than wrong on many levels. "Go suck a smokestack"? What a nasty moron you are. You obviously missed the comment on moderation. Just wait until your 65. In the language of my fathers people, what a chish kish. We choctaws have a way of getting to the point.

For Hardware:
Not trying to poo on your parade, but have you checked the list of organizations under Governor Rick Perry? Would you really want to do away with the NSF (this site is about science and scifi isn't it?), or screw Native peoples again by doing away with the DOI. Now I personally am disgusted by BLM and Forest Service policies forcing people out of "public lands". I can't figure how "public" fits in there. If you never lived in a western state then you wont know what I am talking about. But really, if you truly hate all this spending, then move to Bangledesh where they save all that $$ by having none of them.

No NSF, no Firefly verse, never, just a dead species formerly known as Homo Sapiens on a dead planet, or one thats back in the dark ages where people elevate themselves by divine right as kings, paying no taxes but breaking the backs of peasants. Kinda like David Koch and the richest 1% are doing to us now. The problem is not government but a lack of balance in government. In the 90's we had a great economy, a surplus and when we did involve ourselves in a conflict we kicked butt and came home. George HW Bush and Clinton did not screw us into the ground. In the 2000's, we have wars that could have been won in months, not years, trillions spent for counter-productive killing, thousands of maimed US military personel.

This is the legacy of GW Bush, and the GOP, yet Obama has not cut ties with it either. We still have the patriot act, we still have gitmo, we're still spending money we don't have trying to kill the Taliban, who never threatend us, yet al Queada is alive and well now in Yemen. It's the stupid, stupid, stupid, people who hate everything yet have no suggestions on fixing them, other than screw over the middle class.

As to which of those programs we need? Probably most as all are important to somebody, maybe just not you. But who am I to say that my needs and wants makes yours invalid. Review all those programs, great, but cut military spending by getting out of Islamic crap holes and let them settle their own problems. Put military spending and the tax code back to Clinton levels and then don't give a damn if the guy gets a blow job. Don't put witch hunters like Ken Starr blowing tax payers money for nothing. Or like the GOP hounding a former Oklahoma governor (Walters) until his kid commits suicide, only to find after three years and millions of dollars that the guy committed a misdemeanor.

Bottom line it's all BS and if we don't pull our heads out of our political you know what, then the US is doomed and the rich right wing will build a new aristocracy with people like David Koch at the head, and you and me bud will be peasants pissing in the wind in Chinese robes.

Have a great day

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