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The agency said the deficit reduction plan passed by the US Congress on Tuesday did not go far enough.

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S&P noted in its report that the failure to act on raising revenue also was a consideration in its decision.
“We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues, is less likely than we previously assumed,” the company said.

S&P also changed its assumption that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts enacted under President George W. Bush would expire by the end of 2012, “because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues.”

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Credit rating agencies played a very important role at various stages in the subprime crisis. They have been highly criticized for understating the risk involved with new, complex securities that fueled the United States housing bubble, such as mortgage-backed securities (MBS) and collateralized debt obligations (CDO).

The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission reported in January 2011 that: "The three credit rating agencies were key enablers of the financial meltdown. The mortgage-related securities at the heart of the crisis could not have been marketed and sold without their seal of approval. Investors relied on them, often blindly. In some cases, they were obligated to use them, or regulatory capital standards were hinged on them. This crisis could not have happened without the rating agencies. Their ratings helped the market soar and their downgrades through 2007 and 2008 wreaked havoc across markets and firms."

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

If you're going to spend more, you need more. That's not the issue. Obama and the Dems are recklessly spending more than is needed. They're doing so to manufacture the false premise that more $ is 'needed' to fund the govt, or else all wiil collapse.

It's like a wife who goes out and spends more and more on her credit card, and then tells the husband to go out and " make more money ".

No dear, we make enough money as it is. YOU need to stop squandering what we've made, and put to better use the resources we have already.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, it's nothing remotely like what you described, Kwickie.

Obama's spending far more than Bush has, so there goes you nonsense, right out the window.

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And nice edit job, removing the factual part that Obama inherited the AAA rating from W as well. No wonder you'd like to forget that one.

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MCCONNELL ADMITS TO TAKING DEBT CEILING ‘HOSTAGE’: IT’S ‘WORTH RANSOMING’ | In a stunning bit of candor, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) admitted in the Washington Post today that his party had taken the debt ceiling “hostage,” and that some of his colleagues were willing to “shoot” it:
“I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting,” he said. “Most of us didn’t think that. What we did learn is this — it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done.”
The Post added that McConnell “said he could imagine doing this again.” Indeed, he has promised he will do so.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Ah, there goes rappy with erroneous facts again, his infamous "rapfacts". I wonder if he will ever put up actual numbers of who added what to the deficit, or if he will just keep on blathering, like he always does?

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Ah, there goes rappy with erroneous facts again, his infamous "rapfacts". I wonder if he will ever put up actual numbers of who added what to the deficit, or if he will just keep on blathering, like he always does?

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This has a very WMD-ish feel about it... a kind of artificial ramped-up crisis which didn't exist even two months ago, whipped up to get somebody to do something. When that something (whatever it was) didn't happen the S&P had to make good it's threat. I suspect that if further information comes out, we'll find there was some rather unrelated reason why this was done.

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I wonder what would happen if we all just totally ignored Raptor, say for a day, and didn't spend so much time responding to his idiocy? Just crossed my mind...

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I disagree, Byte

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
This was really kind of a catch-22. If we defaulted, the credit rating would get screwed up and the economy would take a hit. If we raised the debt ceiling, same thing would happen, like when you raise the credit allowance on a credit card. Defaulting would probably have been a really bad idea, not something we COULD do, but the other option wasn't all that great either.

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Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, I guess crazyrappy had to retract his "it's all Obama's fault" mantra once he tried to come up with supporting numbers and found data which universally contradicted him.

Maybe we can go on intelligently from here.

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I disagree, because I think you've got a fundamental flaw in your analogy. When you get a credit increase on a credit card, your credit rating pretty definitely DOES NOT go down. And your interest rate doesn't generally go up. I know this from experience. Every time I've gotten a credit line increase, it's been because my credit rating WENT UP, not down.

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Personally I think we should outlaw the whole credit rating system and make lenders do there own homework and decisions.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

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I disagree, because I think you've got a fundamental flaw in your analogy. When you get a credit increase on a credit card, your credit rating pretty definitely DOES NOT go down. And your interest rate doesn't generally go up. I know this from experience. Every time I've gotten a credit line increase, it's been because my credit rating WENT UP, not down.

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This is kinda like what you said about a mortgage being "good debt."

Might be that's how the system is set up, but it makes it inherently unstable. You don't improve your likelyhood of paying something back if you're being encouraged to spend more. it's a flaw in the logic behind these credit policies, not a flaw in the analogy.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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Personally I think we should outlaw the whole credit rating system and make lenders do there own homework and decisions.

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It's not a bad idea, let me think about it a little. I have to weigh it against my chaotic nature and the principle of whether customers are right or chumps.

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Bank lending is a similar problem, and that carries problems of it's own, too, regarding the issuance of money. Insurance is another thing than can often be predatory. So that's the question. CAN we keep getting a useful service out of them while limiting the bad? Or is the only way to stop abuses and and predatory business to not support it at all, even outlaw it?

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"The whole government is a Ponzi scheme."
-Jew Bernie Madoff, founder of the NASDAQ stock exchange who stole $150-Billion...more than all other criminals in USA combined (not counting the foreign "Federal" Reserve Bank)
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13015875

"I need a big Jew Brain to figure these losses."
-Jew Gemma Teller a/k/a jew Katie Sagal (member of the jewish rock band KISS), screen wife of jew Ron Perlman, Sons of Anarchy, Seeds (written, created, directed, acted and produced by her jew husband)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katey_Sagal
http://www.jewcy.com/arts-and-culture/the-top-ten-jews-on-television

“Everywhere they (the Jews) come, they will be the princes of the lords.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 104a

“I (Jahveh) make you (the Jewry) the ancestor of the peoples, I make you the selected one amongst the peoples, I make you the king over the peoples, I make you the loved one amongst the peoples, I make you the best one amongst the peoples, I make you the trusted one amongst the peoples.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Schabbat 105a

“Jews always have to try to deceive Non-Jews.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Zohar I, 168a

“Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Babha Kama 113a

“The possessions of the goyim are like an ownerless desert, and everybody (every Jew) who seizes it, has acquired it.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, IV/3/54b

“When the Messiah comes, all will be slaves of the Jews.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Erubin 43b

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Nick

Jist wanted to make sure you were aware that your signature image was treasonous, as gadsden is a flag of the united states. Perhaps there was treasonous intent, or you're not an american, but just in case it was an error.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Actually, S&P credited the downgrade as much on the GOP refusal to consider any kind of revenue increase as on anything else.

So it's not *JUST* about extensive borrowing. It's about refusing to look for ways to pay that borrowed money back, too.

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When Auraptor suggested that your flag conveyed this message you apologized and pulled it from your posts, so I hoped you understood the concept.

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What happens if you have a tax of 7% on an industry, and you decide to raise that tax to 15%, while its Chinese competitor does not raise in taxes? The Chinese competitor defeats the American, which folds

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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What happens if you have a tax of 7% on an industry, and you decide to raise that tax to 15%, while its Chinese competitor does not raise in taxes? The Chinese competitor defeats the American, which folds

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Only if you believe in "free trade".

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Sig,

Good point. The govt. Could raise tariffs on China, as the Chinese govt, did to us, but I don't see this happening without a more radical change.

This is where politics gets complicated and you get strange bedfellows. I support the free market, but I haven't ever supported free trade policies here, and there are a number of people within the tea party who would actually agree with us. Not only are tariffs constitutional, they are also economically sound in that they tax the excess of other nations trying to make a buck off america, rather than punish ourselves. Of course, the newer faces of the tea party say whatever their corporate overlords tell them to. (just like the loud voices of talk radio.)

I actually agree with a lot of what you said on this topic. I think we probably more or less agree on the problems, and if we could, would set up completely different solutions, but alas, we can't.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Jist wanted to make sure you were aware that your signature image was treasonous, as gadsden is a flag of the united states. Perhaps there was treasonous intent, or you're not an american, but just in case it was an error. 

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Jist wanted to make sure you were aware that your signature image was treasonous, as gadsden is a flag of the united states. Perhaps there was treasonous intent, or you're not an american, but just in case it was an error. 

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Not an error, and as other have explained not at all treasonous.

I find it far more disgusting that the TEA party and the right wing wrap themselves in the American Flag to further their political agenda.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Not an error, and as other have explained not at all treasonous.

I find it far more disgusting that the TEA party and the right wing wrap themselves in the American Flag to further their political agenda.

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