REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Christians and "porn addiction"

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, August 29, 2011 12:22
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Sunday, August 21, 2011 8:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I stumbled across this couldn't stop reading...dunno if that's interest or morbid curiosity...
Quote:

He is a good Christian, Michael is telling his two therapists. He goes to church most Sundays. He’s a devoted husband and father of two daughters.

“But when I would leave on business trips,” he says, “I knew I was going to get to be someone else.”

“Prostitutes, porn - I took anything I wanted.”

Sitting on a comfortable, worn couch, Michael glances out the window and sees a reflection of himself set against the parking lot of this suburban Atlanta office building. He fidgets, runs his fingers over his closely cropped blond hair and straightens his green tennis polo. He clears his throat.

Above his head hangs a poster covered in words describing feelings - angry, anxious, sad. On it is a big yellow cross.

Therapists Richard Blankenship and Mark Richardson wear solemn but empathetic expressions. Certified counselors and Christian ministers, they tell him they know how to listen and nod for him to continue.

“I’ve had a record of purity since March when I confessed to my wife,” says Michael, whose name has been changed by CNN.com to protect his privacy. “No porn, no masturbation.”

“Awesome,” Richardson says, leaning forward in his chair. “God knows you’re trying.”

This is Michael’s second week at “Faithful and True – Atlanta” a 16-week counseling program that, like dozens of others like it around the country, combines traditional psychotherapy with the Bible in an attempt to treat addictive behavior.

Blankenship, a devout Christian who once struggled with sexual abuse, says his own ordeal has helped him to treat and “graduate” nearly 500 Christian men and women with similar addictions in the last five years.

He says he has helped people achieve what he calls “sobriety,” which means resisting porn and lustful thoughts.

Though controversial in secular circles, much of the evangelical Christian world has been cheering this relatively new kind of therapy. Many believers, including many Christian leaders, consider it a powerful tool for fighting what they say is one of the modern church’s biggest problems: porn addiction.

A crusade is born

Not long ago, it was unheard of for a pastor to talk about sex from the pulpit.

Today, clergy are talking about porn.

Many evangelical pastors say they don’t have a choice. The Internet has made porn unavoidable; it’s everywhere. And porn, they say, leads to a lack of intimacy in marriage, threatening the biblical mandate to get and stay married.

In the past few years, Christian leaders have established online ministries to tackle the problem, hosting anti-porn podcast sermons and Web chats. The popular evangelical blog Crosswalk.com recently ran an article headlined “How many porn addicts are in your church?”

Christian publishers, meanwhile, have produced a wave of recent books on the subject, including popular titles like “Porn-Again Christian,” “Secret Sexual Sins: Understanding a Christian's Desire for Pornography” and “Eyes of Integrity: The Porn Pandemic and How It Affects You.”

Evangelical pastor Jeremy Gyorke recently came forward to talk about how porn has affected him. In July, the 32-year-old confessed his porn addiction in a sermon at Wyandotte Family Church, just outside Detroit.

“I’m part of a generation of Christians who grew up keeping your mouth shut about your personal life,” he says. “Goodness no, we didn’t talk about sex.”

“But now that we have a little say in the attitude of the church, we’re taking a different approach,” Gyorke continues. “We’re putting it all out there, saying you don’t have to keep secrets. Come forward and admit that you’ve made a mistake, and you can be healed.”

Gyorke said he confessed to his congregation after his wife caught him looking at porn and told him it made her feel inadequate. She wanted him to seek help and to be transparent as a man of God.

Gyorke ultimately decided that viewing any porn, even once or twice, is a problem for believers.

“It’s like a gateway drug,” he says. “You can’t just have a little look. If you look at porn, you’ve already given your heart and spirit away to someone who isn’t your wife.”

As he wrote his sermon on the matter, Gyorke felt tremendous anxiety. “I thought it would make or break me to them as their pastor,” he says.

But his flock reacted with empathy and support. Several congregants approached him afterward to say that they, too, felt that they’d acted against God by looking at porn.

Different interpretations

Though the words “porn” and “masturbation” don’t appear in the Bible, Gyorke believes the biblical verdict is clear. “Sexual immorality is mentioned a lot in the Bible, and that is what porn is,” he says.

He quotes the Gospel of Matthew: “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

“Porn is lust, and lust is a sin,” the pastor said.

Many religious scholars say that such a view reflects just one of many interpretations.

“One school of biblical study says that desire is a problem and needs to be monitored as a serious threat to salvation,” says Boston University theology professor Jennifer Wright Knust.

But Knust points to scriptural passages that appear to endorse sexual desire, including the Song of Solomon, a poem that some scholars say depicts two lovers graphically describing each other’s anatomy in an ode to unmarried sex.

“This is not new. It’s a cherry-picking of scripture used to address what’s happening right now in popular culture,” says Knust, author of the recent book “Unprotected Texts: The Bible’s Surprising Contradictions on Sex and Desire.” “The new thing is that it’s being used by so-called Christian therapists.”

Knust says the anti-porn trend in Christian therapy reflects new questions in broader society about what constitutes an appropriate relationship, about gender roles and rules, and about what marriage really means.

“People are concerned and confused, and want to know if God is speaking to us in our sexual roles,” she says. “Can we find answers in divine revelation? People have always hoped that there can be certainty in the Bible.

“There is no certainty,” she says. “It’s interpretation.”

XXX churches

A few weeks after delivering his confessional sermon, Gyorke organized a Sunday event at his church intended to help keep congregants away from pornography.

He gave out study guides with scriptural verses related to lust and showed a slick video from XXXChurch, the main Web-based group for the Christian anti-porn movement.

The video opens with a mock-pharmaceutical infomercial for a product called “Lustivin.” It raves about how wonderful the drug can make you feel in the short term but then lists some major side effects: premature relational difficulty, divorce, shallow relationships.

Craig Gross, a young pastor from California, co-founded XXXChurch.com in 2001. Its URL was meant to snag people who were surfing the Web for dirty pictures.
.....
The site was slow to catch on for its first few years, but now gets millions of clicks a day from IP addresses around the globe, Gross said.
{Think the two might be connected? N}
...
...a Christian counseling retreat called Pure Life Ministries, a kind of Christian compound that includes a chapel and all-male dormitory on 44 acres in western Kentucky.
.....
The live-in program costs $175 a week. Men must move to the campus and live alone, with wives having the option of talking to Pure Life counselors by phone. Most insurance plans don’t cover Pure Life - a moot concern, really, because most program participants quit their jobs to relocate. {?!?!?}
That’s what Colon, who was working as an elevator repairman, did.
.....
{Section on "Women...drowning in this addiction"
.....
“I’ve met women who will lock themselves in a room and look at porn all day, ignoring their kids or their jobs,” she says. “I feel like I can relate because that’s all I cared about, getting my high. There are so many more women out there drowning in this addiction, you have no idea.”

The father of Christian-based porn and sex addiction therapy has a word for this “pray-away” method of sobriety.

“Hooey.”

Dr. Mark Laaser pioneered the Christian response to porn and sex addiction in the 1980s and chides counseling centers like Pure Life for what he says is their near-total reliance on prayer.

“Alcoholics don’t wish really hard to not be addicted to alcohol,” he says in a phone interview from his busy therapeutic practice in suburban Minneapolis. “The field of addiction is much deeper than opening your Bible.”

He’s pleased that more Christians are openly talking about pornography and sex addiction, but Laaser says he’s concerned that some Christian leaders and therapists are confusing sexual sin with sex addiction.

“Men come dragging into my office because their wives have caught them masturbating and labeled them addicts, or they’ve had one affair and they are now looking to have their affair excused by addiction,” he says.

“One affair doesn’t mean you’re a porn addict,” Laaser says. “Looking at porn occasionally doesn’t make you a porn addict. Those may be poor decisions, but they are not necessarily caused by clinical addiction.” (There's LOTS more at http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/21/can-the-burgeoning-christian-
crusade-against-pornography-bear-fruit/?hpt=hp_c2)

I'm not sure whether I find this laughable, weird, ridiculous or just plain sad. I do wonder how much it might have to the taboos of our puritanical dichotomy in America, and if this sort of thing exists in other countries. I assume it IS possible to get addicted to porn, but I can't quite imagine how it could be this big a problem unless there was something else going on--something that makes it "dangerous" and "exciting", which we know attracts some people. Just strange...

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Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:12 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It is possible to become addicted to anything that provides pleasure, I think. But I also think one might as well give up soft beds and tasty foods.

If these people came to the conclusion of themselves that their habits were interfering with the lives they want to live, then I commend them for changing those habits.

But if they only lament their habits because of outside judgment, then I feel badly for them.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, August 22, 2011 6:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup. I'm afraid I find it hard to imagine many people getting "addicted" to porn, especially women, but apparently they think it's a serious problem. I just wonder about it, about how much peer pressure has to do with it, and what they think "addicted" really means.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, August 22, 2011 7:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Tony-
Quote:

It is possible to become addicted to anything that provides pleasure, I think.
thank you for your well-reasoned POV. I agree that anything that gives please can become the focus of addiction. But I wonder... are our lives so bereft of real pleasure, so full of stress and anxiety that we're more prone to addiction than ever?

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Monday, August 22, 2011 7:57 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

That might be the case. It's hard for me to gauge. I wonder sometimes about the medieval peasant, who worked hard all day. They worked land that was not their own. They were only allowed to keep a sliver of their product- enough to survive but little more. Any illness might lay them low.

But then I think about hope.

The medieval peasant was in a hopeless situation. He could not really change his circumstances. There was no incentive to hope, to dream, to wish for more. There would never be more. The best hope anyone might have is that things didn't get worse.

In our society, we have more hope to change our situation. We have some cause to dream. To wish for more. To expect that there is a possibility things might get better.

And it all reminds me of the story of Pandora and her Box.

Given a Box filled with all the evils of creation, she peeked inside and let loose all manner of terror and pain. In some versions of the story, she snapped the box closed as quickly as she could, but the only thing left inside the box was Hope.

But if we pay attention to the story, we know that the things in the box were all evil. And I'm left to wonder... is Hope evil, if it was in the box?

But then I think... only if it is False Hope.

False Hope is the only thing that might make a modern man more miserable than a medieval peasant, even though his life is easier.

Thus, I think the path to a better society lies in ensuring that False Hope is replaced with Legitimate Hope, such that pleasure abounds with sufficient reliability that one need not grasp greedily for it. And men will no longer torture themselves with wishing for what is beyond their grasp. They may grasp it and have it in actuality.

You are probably right that desperation and dissatisfaction lead to addiction as surely as any other cause.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, August 22, 2011 8:27 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Three points worth mentioning:

1. There is a difference between masturbation and porn; and hiring prostitutes and having affairs. That lead-off guy in the story, Michael, crosses over form one category to another.

2. Porn and masturbation may be a gateway drug to more serious immorality, but that's no more a valid analogy than that one puff of marijuana leads inevitably to crack addiction.

3. Most important point: this is the old classic Judeo-Christian morality: all sex is original sin; only sex that leads to making a baby is even pardonable; masturbation, homosexuality, perversion ( and how broadly do they define that?) and any kind of LUST are ALL guarantees of Damnation; and the only path to Salvation is through loyal church membership. And since EVERYBODY is guilty of participating in at least one of those acts, EVERYBODY is condemned, unless they toady up to their local priest, with confession ( which opens you up for blackmail), obedience and MONEY. And just remember, even if you didn't participate, your parents DID: your conception was during a sinful act, so you were born guilty. This is the great weapon of Christian oppression. It's no surprise to see a Christian group try to roll it out again, dressed in new clothes.

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Monday, August 22, 2011 7:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

3. Most important point: this is the old classic Judeo-Christian morality: all sex is original sin; only sex that leads to making a baby is even pardonable; masturbation, homosexuality, perversion ( and how broadly do they define that?) and any kind of LUST are ALL guarantees of Damnation; and the only path to Salvation is through loyal church membership. And since EVERYBODY is guilty of participating in at least one of those acts, EVERYBODY is condemned, unless they toady up to their local priest, with confession ( which opens you up for blackmail), obedience and MONEY. And just remember, even if you didn't participate, your parents DID: your conception was during a sinful act, so you were born guilty. This is the great weapon of Christian oppression. It's no surprise to see a Christian group try to roll it out again, dressed in new clothes.




Yup, generally speaking, Christianity all too often sees anything that puts you on your knees in front of a priest as a plus. Never mind that the priest may himself be addicted to porn...

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Tuesday, August 23, 2011 10:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


NewOld (Hi! Long time not much see!), that #3 is about what I'm thinking. When you compare the average American's approach to sex (much less the ultra-religions person's!), the contrast between that and just about any European country is funny. Our culture is so "addicted" to titilation, but gawd forbid you show {{GASP}} FRONTAL NUDITY!, well, you know...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, August 23, 2011 8:12 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


New perspective. My aunt was married for 25 years to someone that had a porn addiction. When he was just lookin at porn she didn't really give it much thought, obviously he had varacious appetites that she couldn't satisfy ... right? But then he was using it more and more and not interested in rutting with her anymore. He was taking other women to bed, prostitutes etc. She put up with it for a long time, probably thought it was her fault somehow or something, probably thought if she was a perfect wife and did whatever he wanted that he'd change. The final straw was when she went on vacation with a friend for a week and came back and found out that instead of spending time with their four kids, taking them places etc. he'd been upstairs the whole time with the computer and the porn and she figured that it was only a matter of time before the kids found him and figured it out. So she kicked him out.

Obviously there's a difference between looking at porn every once in a while to take care of needs if one's sex partner is away and doing it to excess to where it interferes with daily functioning, that is what addiction looks like after all.

On masterbation: Lets face it we've all done it, some more than others, some of us have more varacious appetites and more intense physicality than others. I don't think masterbation in itself is really that bad of a thing, its pretty easy to figure out afterall. I believe in sex after marriage, so if one has needs before that time then one takes care of it on one's own. It may not be the ideal situation but its life.

I think its important for people to talk about sex, either before they get married or before they get serious, whatever the case may be, make sure both people are on the same page, do they both enjoy sex? (this can be assertained without actually having intercourse). Do they have specific things that they particularly enjoy that they'd like to do with their partner? Do they have certain things that they don't enjoy that they want to avoid during sex? Do they have similar attitudes about sex in a relationship? If people do this then they can choose more responsably whom they wish to rut with/get more serious with/persue/whatever.

As for lust being a sin, yes it is. But ultimately we all sin all the time and all we can do is our best and trust God to handle the rest. Anyone who says they don't sin is sinning right there with pridefulness. But there's a difference between lusting and addiction.

And I think most people like to see/read a nice romantic sex scene from time to time in novels, stories or movies. That's pretty normal. And Song of Solomon is yummy sexy, very romantic.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Kinda makes me damn glad sometimes I happen to be a pretty blatant anarchist-polyamorous-hedonistic-libertine sort, no one expects MY adherance to THEIR moral code, although they'd damn sure like to force it upon me via legislation, sure - but fuck em, heaven knows they damn well need it, maybe if they got decently LAID they wouldn't be so goddamn uptight, neh ?

In fact I know that's true, humanity, sidewalks, tree roots, come on, you heard this speech before, meh.

Although admittedly it *IS* amusing when folks automatically consider me a sleaze with no morals for all this, cause in fact I'm kinda prudish and old fashioned, but that's not cause some book tells me to be.

ETA: Weeelll, imma fan of all seven, but Lust is most certainly my favorite, oh yes.
Which is funny, cause according to Yuriko I only got three emotions: contentment, annoyance, and lust - all else is a matter of degree.
Curse it that my ex agrees with her, bleh.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:32 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


How in the world are you old fashioned Frem?????? Unless you mean old fashion from some culture that values different things historically, then in that case its quite possible that you are.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:38 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"As for lust being a sin, yes it is."

Hello,

This is, of course, a subjective opinion. It depends largely on a moral code trained into the individual by society.

I do not see lust as inherently sinful in and of itself (despite a thick book written by agenda-laden humans which tells me the opposite.) It is an urge, like hunger, and is neutral in and of itself. Perhaps even good.

Indeed, without lust, I suspect the human race would vanish.

I think that Gluttony might be more objectively a sin, if that gluttony comes between you and the goals and responsibilities you have set for yourself.

It seems to me that Gluttony should replace Lust as a sin, as it would include all unhealthy addictions.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:19 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Rick Perry’s Hardcore History of Investment in Porn
http://digg.com/news/politics/rick_perry_s_hardcore_history_of_investm
ent_in_porn


The Jewish Masters Of Porn
http://jewishfaces.com/porn.html

Quote:

Jewish Professor Says Porn Industry is a Weapon used by Jews Against Gentiles

The Jewish Quarterly, winter 2004) Jewish professor Nathan Abrams in an article titled, “Triple Exthnics,” proudly documents the leading role of Gentile-hating Jews in pornography.

Quote:

A story little told is that of Jews in Hollywood’s seedier cousin, the adult film industry. Perhaps we’d prefer that the ‘triple exthnics’ didn’t exist, but there’s no getting away from the fact that secular Jews played (and still continue to play) a disproportionate role throughout the adult film industry in America. Jewish involvement in pornography has a long history in the United States, as Jews have helped transform a fringe subculture into what has become a primary constituent of Americana. These are the ‘true blue’ Jews.

Jewish activity in the porn industry divides into two (sometimes overlapping) groups: pornographers and performers. Though Jews make up only two per cent of the American population, they have been prominent in pornography. …

In the postwar era, America’s most notorious pornographer was Reuben Sturman, the ‘Walt Disney of Porn’. According to the US Department of Justice, throughout the 1970s Sturman controlled most of the pornography circulating in the country. … It was said that Sturman did not simply control the adult-entertainment industry; he was the industry. …

Many are entirely secular, Jews in name only. Sturman, however, identified as a Jew – he was a generous donator to Jewish charities.

Is there a deeper reason, beyond the mere financial, as to why Jews in particular have become involved in porn?

Al Goldstein, the publisher of Screw, said “The only reason that Jews are in pornography is that we think that Christ sucks. Catholicism sucks. We don’t believe in authoritarianism.” Pornography thus becomes a way of defiling Christian culture and, as it penetrates to the very heart of the American mainstream (and is no doubt consumed by those very same WASPs), its subversive character becomes more charged.

Extending the subversive thesis, Jewish involvement in the X-rated industry can be seen as a proverbial two fingers to the entire WASP establishment in America.

Jewish involvement in porn, by this argument, is the result of an atavistic hatred of Christian authority: they are trying to weaken the dominant culture in America by moral subversion. Astyr remembers having “to run or fight for it in grammar school because I was a Jew. It could very well be that part of my porn career is an ‘up yours’ to these people.”

Jews were also at the vanguard of the sexual revolution of the 1960s. Wilhelm Reich, Herbert Marcuse and Paul Goodman replaced Marx, Trotsky and Lenin as required revolutionary reading. …

Pacheco was one Jewish porn star who read Reich’s intellectual marriage of Freud and Marx. …

In light of the relatively tolerant Jewish view of sex, why are we ashamed of the Jewish role in the porn industry? We might not like it, but the Jewish role in this field has been significant and it is about time it was written about seriously.



http://www.davidduke.com/general/jewish-professor-boasts-of-jewish-por
nography-used-as-a-weapon-against-gentiles_1811.html




Joe Francis (a/k/a jew Jonah Frankel) owns Mantra Films and produces $100 million in annual sales of Gay Girls Gone Wild porn and Gay Guys Gone Wild porn and was arrested for kiddie porn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guys_Gone_Wild
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_Gone_Wild
http://blockyourid.com/~gbpprorg/judicial-inc/9_joe_francis.htm
http://judicial-inc.biz/9_joe_francis.htm

Joe Francis Had A Big Fat Gay Wedding
http://www.idontlikeyouinthatway.com/2010/11/joe-francis-had-a-gay-wed
ding.html



Joe Francis arrested again yesterday 23 August 2011
http://www.tmz.com/2011/08/23/joe-francis-girls-gone-wild-surrenders-t
o-police-lapd-police-cops-false-imprisonment
/




"You can't put a price on good pussy."
-Pam, Archer, The Rock

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:31 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

















































































































Hello,

Clearance Sale.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:48 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
How in the world are you old fashioned Frem?????? Unless you mean old fashion from some culture that values different things historically, then in that case its quite possible that you are.



Well that too.
But there's things, like how despite pushing use of the cutting edge, in personal technology I can be "such a damn luddite" at times, or how I find nudity or semi-nudity kinda freaky (but amusing cause naked people are just inherently amusing, us shaven apes..) and in a certain kind of old-school chivalry which never quite comes anywhere near chauvanism...

I got laughed at the last time I actually travelled on an airplane for using the word "Stewardess", apparently it's gone out of use long enough to be quaint, and she giggled every time after that when I started to say it then corrected myself.

Not to mention how amused the ex's new husband got when I got verbally "into it' with a U-scan machine that was just PISSIN ME OFF, being all uncooperative and stuff...

There's a bunch of little things, Riona.

-F

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:31 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Oh, Frem, I hate those rutting Skynet you-scan machines, they're rediculous, I can't blame you for getting frustrated. Even though I'm patient with people (one of my few and far between virtues) I have no patience for things, like when my computer isn't working the way I want it to, I get so pissed and angry, arrrrrrgh. ...

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, porn. I found magazines in Jim's drawer once long, long ago; not Playboy, the really graphic stuff. Made me ill. Told him, he threw them out and said no more. Then I found a whole bunch saved on his computer when I tried to fix it for him, told him it turned me off that he engaged in it. It made me feel like I was one of "them" and sex wasn't love making. Again, "no more". Finally I found he's using our Netflix account to rent porn...doesn't bother me anymore. He explained that and masturbation help him relax, and given he has trouble sleeping, that's fine with me.

The biggie, tho', was talking to other women and discovering almost all of them had accidentally discovered porn in their husband's stuff, and I finally realized how many must do it. I knew guys had to masturbate--once I read how many times a day most of them think about sex, I figured they deserve to have an "outlet"! So now I knock before going into Jim's room if the door is closed, so I don't embarrass him.

But I find graphic porn a total turnoff and all I feel is sadness for those who have to pose for it or make the movies. I mean, there are only so may things one can do with the human body, so how someone can become "addicted" to it is beyond me. Being bi, I love "light porn" of women more than of men, women's bodies can be beautiful...men, not so much (for me). But it's no biggie either way to me, unless, as you said, it gets in the way of one's life.

Riona, my instant reaction to your statement about sin was the same as Anthony's; that's your OPINION and you're entitled to it, but it's not a fact, at least to many, many of us. I don't believe in "sin", I think it's a construct of religion and Americans' ridiculous double standards on the matter are to me pretty disgusting. Most adore titilation, but being up front about it is a big no-no. Bullshit.

I live by "Harm none; do as ye will".

Oh, Anthony, should let you know that in the interim you were gone, Riona joined us. She's an absolute doll, but she's very, very serious about her religion, so her judgement isn't surprising. Just so's you know.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, August 25, 2011 7:54 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Yanno, actual "porn" never did it for me, just, lacks any of the sensualty and mystery that makes the game worth playin - I do however have an impressive collection of what ya might call cheesecake pinups, and by way of my workings I actually know at least in passing most of the mid-level porn distributors...

Reason for that, is that as a rule they hate them damn predator bastards as bad or worse, given that they draw heat down on THEIR perfectly legal enterprise, and all too often the would-be-crusader types seem to make no damn distinction between them and the other guys and it shows, so who winds up trying to mitigate the situation but me since I have no issue with what they do, and still hate the predators and exploiters enough to appease the would-be-crusaders, and so on and so forth...
Mind you the big empire folks couldn't care less cause they're covering too big a market to really even notice when stuff slips through, and the little fish are so desperate to get a leg up they'll cooperate with the scum, but the guys in the middle really, REALLY hate em - my best contact in that world only got into it cause he was a serious dumbass when he was younger and has some pretty grevious child support payments hittin him ever month and it's the only way to make that much money cause they don't seem to CARE if he has enough to live on afterwords, which landed him homeless twice that way.

Ergo, I know where to get the very best porn, even if I've no bloody USE for it - one of my buddies once challenged this assertion, and in response I sent him a sample set that left him curled into a ball of whimpering, frustrated lust, and then laughed at his ass for even being susceptible to that trick - that I am *NOT* actually got me dumped by a girl before since her whole power-trip was based around how easy it was to use her sexuality (or mere promise thereof, spoken or not) to manipulate people, and when that ran into a brick wall with me, she became irate and disconcerted because it disempowered her, took the one "edge" she had away, and that kinda frightened her, which made her angry, and round and round till the whole relationship exploded, bah freakin humbug.

Anyhows, I think what most of the draw of it comes from *IS* that it is taboo, forbidden fruit, courtesy of the combination of our perversely twisted mixture of asinine puritan morality and mass media peek-a-boo sexualization, and it just shorts the wiring in peoples heads or something, which is why they go from the pretty all the way down to the sleazy over time, diminishing returns of the shock value that makes it exciting - which can and has lead some down pretty dark paths, as I've seen it happen, especially to law enforcement tasked with fighting certain crimes, eventually fall into that world and become exploiters themselves due to the catastrophic pyschological impact combined with the near absolute lack of accountability and corrosive emotional environment.

Once again, the more you suppress a persons humanity, and this includes sexuality, the more twisted the form in which it's finally gonna express itself - like duh, and it doesn't help when we screw young people up so bad by trying to cage them into a set of inhuman morals we never held to ourselves, holding them up to a humanly impossible standard and punishing them when they fail, often brutally and forever (sex offender tag, for example) over dumb petty shit which shouldn't even BE a crime, like sleeping with one's also-underage girlfriend, which IF we actually communicated honestly with these kids, wouldn't be half the problem it is when we lie to them, engage in massive, blatant, obvious hypocrisy, and then hold THEM to standards far beyond reason - hell that's almost askin for it, again, forbidden fruit aspect.

But meh, people are just plain flat out stupid about this, and then inflict their twisted stupidity upon future generations just as they in turn had it inflicted upon them - gotta break the chain somewhere, and being HONEST with young folk about sexuality and human interaction would be a bloody good start - although I find it tremendously uncomfortable to do so, I've been roped into having "that" discussion (ye old birds and bees) BY parents who can't manage to do so themselves and don't feel the kid is going to LISTEN to anyone else about it, but part of that is because I DO NOT, lie to them, and I cop to flaws and hypocrisy, which gains the respect required for them to pay you any mind.
So they know I ain't gonna shovel "This is sex, it's bad, don't do it", but actually tell them the truth, all the necessary icky details, AND where emotional attachment and personal responsibility come into the picture.

THAT topic sparked some ire between me and my niece cause of the neighborhood she lives in, being semi-suburbia and the boys are allowed to get away with damn near anything short of murdering a girl and they ALWAYS blame the girl, even the local courts, which has colored very darkly what her idea of relationship *IS*...
As in her entire concept of "relationship" is try get as much out of a boy as possible by letting him think he's going to get somewhere, as he tries to get somewhere while not offering - both sides trying to get what they want while offering essentially nothing in return, and that's a war, not a relationship - added on top of it is that she also does this to keep the OTHER boys from putting their hands on her in a community where they're prettymuch allowed to do so with impunity, especially one son of a certain cop who's an outright rapist, and only leaves her alone cause he thinks her uncle works for the friggin mafia.
(a misconception I've seen fit to encourage, rather than dismiss)

End of the day, the only real reason porn, per se, even EXISTS, is because of idiotic, inhumane, impossible moral standards, and just how badly broken most people are between the ears about sexuality thanks to that.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, August 29, 2011 12:08 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Niki, Anthony was here when I joined, remember AI in a box? He went away and then came back again. You know what irritates me a lot about sex and social standards? Is how there's this double standard and if men sleep around they're playas but if women do it they're sluts. That makes no sense to me to treat men and women differently on the matter.

Frem, I don't understand why parents wouldn't want to be the ones to explain about sex to their kids, wouldn't they want to be honest with their kids about what goes on, what they expect from them, how to conduct oneself etc. Its almost time for my little brother to be told, not quite yet, but almost time. I will be allowed no say in the matter because my mother has made it very clear that I'm not to be the one to tell him, so I don't know what he'll be told or when. I'm sure they'll tell him in fifth grade sex ed, next year, but how he finds out is apparently not my place to interfere. I think 10 is a good age to tell them, but I'd rather he hear it at home and then hear it at school, so he's prepared to hear it from a teacher and he isn't shocked, "They do what?". When my dad told me the mechanics I was a bit surprised myself. But then it made sense.

Niki, I think the human body is a beautiful thing and isa most high form of art, male and female.

As for porn, I think it would exist even if people rutted with whomever they pleased because some folk are watchers, their bodies respond to the act of watching, not just to doing.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, August 29, 2011 12:22 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Niki, Anthony was here when I joined, remember AI in a box?"

Hello,


Ah, I remember that discussion. It was about indefinite, preventative detention of an innocent individual for the sake of humanity. Ironic as that phrasing may be. It's an issue I feel quite passionate about.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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