Millions of unseen species fill the Earth by Niki2

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"When some talk about the extinction of ALL species"

Hello,

I'm not sure we have the power to make all species extinct. As terrible and destructive as we are, I think we could unleash all of our war and gluttony and poison upon the Earth, and the Earth would outlive us.

These species that we kill off with alarming regularity do not represent a tombstone on the Earth's grave. Merely our own.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 11:16 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I agree. Most of what I've heard is that insects would survive no matter what we do and even if we "extinctify" ourselves along with everyone else. I think we'd have to totally destroy the ability for ANYTHING to live on the planet, and we'd do ourselves in long before we could do that. Hopefully.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:05 PM

DREAMTROVE

IIRC, I said "until we extinct ourselves"

I'm noting a perennial tone of personal attack here.

At any rate, we are capable of decimating the higher life form populations, including those we rely on. There has been a massive collapse of salmon species in recent years.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 12:56 PM

MINCINGBEAST

As a lad, I often dreamed of being the last living thing in the universe, and then killing myself. There is more work to do than I thought.

I will not be satisfied until mankind is the only species left on earth. Also, I will never be satisfied.

But anyway, how satisfying would it be, as a species, to eliminate all of our competition and former tormentors? To know that while our ancestors cowered in fear and ran from larger predators, we have now killed absolutely everything that there is to kill? These are merely rhetorical questions, because it would obviously be immensely satisfying.

When man is the last life form left, we will have pwned life. We can then go about the very important business of extinguishing our own species, genocide by genocide.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:31 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Dream,

I did not know this was directed at you. I thought it was a general topic. I apologize if I participated in an attack unwittingly.

As for the higher species, well.... the Human Race would just be one Mass Extinction Event among several in the history of the planet. In a million years, some other interesting fish will have replaced the salmon and all the other useful life we grind away. Perhaps some new sentient life form will find salmon skeletons preserved in sediment and wonder what killed them all off.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:23 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Niki, I love watching nature shows and learning about animals. I especially enjoy the shows where they talk about animals that I've either never heard of or know little about, they're exciting and interesting.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:34 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Funny thing is, I bet they aren't even thinking of some of the creepy-crawlies that live far beneath the surface of the Earth, and have yet to be seen. We've found that no matter how far down any cave or sinkhole we go, life abounds, in new and never thought-of forms (including some that breathe in methane and "exhale" sulfuric acid!). My bet is that as we go deeper, we'll continue being astounded. And I'd wager that the same holds true for life forms living within the ice of the poles and glaciers, as well as high in the atmosphere.

8.8 million might be a LOW estimate...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Niki, I love watching nature shows and learning about animals. I especially enjoy the shows where they talk about animals that I've either never heard of or know little about, they're exciting and interesting.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Riona, track down "Wonders of the Solar System" with Brian Cox. It's a space show, but it's tied in to Earth in some truly remarkable ways. You'll be astonished, I promise.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:42 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"as well as high in the atmosphere."

Hello,

I seem to recall (and please correct me if I am mistaken. It has been a while.) that the original Andromeda Strain concerned a satellite/rocket designed to scoop life forms from the upper-atmosphere, where life might be as alien as if it came from another planet.

The collection device crashed in a small town, and its 'alien' microbes were released to wreak havoc on the Earth, with a research team desperately trying to find a cure before things spread too far.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Brian Cox reminds me a good bit of Carl Sagan. They both present the wonders of the cosmos, on all scales. From the vastness of countless galaxies, to the incredible diversity of life, right here on our own world, and our own back yards.

Carl mixed in a bit more history, which kinda put some things into perspective, but Brian is immensely enjoyable and informative as well.

Many folks mistakenly think of just the dinosaurs, when the issue of extinction comes up. Most are unaware that there's been multiple major extinction events on Earth, as many as 7, I believe. Even more bewildering to some, is that the dinosaur extinction wasn't even the worst one this planet's seen. The look on their faces as they try to comprehend just what that means ... it's fun to watch.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:52 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"as well as high in the atmosphere."

Hello,

I seem to recall (and please correct me if I am mistaken. It has been a while.) that the original Andromeda Strain concerned a satellite/rocket designed to scoop life forms from the upper-atmosphere, where life might be as alien as if it came from another planet.

The collection device crashed in a small town, and its 'alien' microbes were released to wreak havoc on the Earth, with a research team desperately trying to find a cure before things spread too far.

Correct, but I won't spoil the ending for them who's not read it.

Gah Crichton can be boring at times though, that one's a bit dry even for me.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:54 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Did he write 'The Terminal Man?'

If so, I enjoyed it. It was a quick read and interesting, too.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:55 PM

Yup, Cox credits Sagan for really getting him into science with "Cosmos". His new series, "Wonders of the Universe", is pretty amazing stuff, too.

But the Wonders of the Solar System wowed me the most. And more and more I become certain that what we'll find when we start looking closely is, wherever life CAN exist, in any of its myriad forms, it WILL exist. My bet is that life isn't rare - it's practically everywhere!

"Cosmos" remains among my very favorite TV shows ever aired. It re-aired recently, so I took the opportunity to burn it to DVD so I don't have to haul out the old VCR to enjoy it now! I can only imagine the kind of show Sagan and Cox could produce together!

By the way, a British friend on facebook posted an article that claims that interest in science and physics among UK school kids has increased some 40%, and test scores are up as well, and they're crediting quite a bit of this new interest to Brian Cox! I'm not sure I fully believe it, but it would sure be cool if true. As physicists go, he's a rockstar. Oh, and that same bird went to see him lecture, of course. :D

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:57 PM

DREAMTROVE

Anthony,

Not at all, it's an interesting topic. I just had to snark Niki for taking a line I had posted and then using it to start a thread, something she's done before, and then she came down on me for responding to what was obvious bait for me to respond to.

Interesting topic, carry on. I'm a fan of tiny species. For the most part I don't think humanity is much of a threat to them, not the way we are to larger species, but tiny species are also fascinating.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"as well as high in the atmosphere."

Hello,

I seem to recall (and please correct me if I am mistaken. It has been a while.) that the original Andromeda Strain concerned a satellite/rocket designed to scoop life forms from the upper-atmosphere, where life might be as alien as if it came from another planet.

The collection device crashed in a small town, and its 'alien' microbes were released to wreak havoc on the Earth, with a research team desperately trying to find a cure before things spread too far.

Correct, but I won't spoil the ending for them who's not read it.

Gah Crichton can be boring at times though, that one's a bit dry even for me.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

DO. NOT. WATCH. THE. RECENT. REMAKE.

It was simply unbearable. Andre Braugher is a hell of an actor, but even he couldn't rescue this stinking turd. Horrible effects, truly abysmal acting - it aired on AMC, I believe, but it may as well have been a Syfy production, as horrible as it was! I couldn't even get through it. I think they did it as a miniseries, and I was hyped for it, because it's a great premise and I thought they'd do it right. Boy, was I wrong about that!

But yes, he did write "The Terminal Man", if memory serves. And "Westworld", which I'd love to see remade.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Anthony,

Not at all, it's an interesting topic. I just had to snark Niki for taking a line I had posted and then using it to start a thread, something she's done before, and then she came down on me for responding to what was obvious bait for me to respond to.

Interesting topic, carry on. I'm a fan of tiny species. For the most part I don't think humanity is much of a threat to them, not the way we are to larger species, but tiny species are also fascinating.

Tiny species will give us far more insight into what we're likely to find moving out from the Earth into the wider solar system, I think. It's the tiny species that will really give you a glimpse into things that are, by almost any definition, "alien" to our way of thinking about life as we know it. Tiny microorganisms that live in glacial ice - icebound their entire life, yet still living, moving, breathing, etc. - and which excrete a substance very like ethylene glycol, or antifreeze, which allows them to move through the ice that they live in. Spores which my never touch ground, but have a complete life cycle in the air. These things teach us to not be too surprised by ANYTHING we might find elsewhere.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 7:56 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
DO. NOT. WATCH. THE. RECENT. REMAKE.

As if I would...
I got no patience for the polished turds dropping out of hollywood these days, and in fact I recently saw a longish list of films released in the past six months and didn't see not one I had any interest in even giving a chance...
Except maybe, just maybe, The Hedgehog - but unless you know what it's based on going in, which most folk don't, I've no idea how they intended to sell viewing it to anyone.

Cause it's based on a damn good book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Elegance_of_the_Hedgehog
Of course, moot point since the release was so limited there's not a showing within a hundred miles of me.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:33 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
I'm noting a perennial tone of personal attack here

You ARE? I don't see it at all; I think we're all expressing our opinions; I certainly had no intent to "attack" you; may I respectfully suggest that you might be taking things a bit personally when it's not intended that way?

I DEFINITELY agree about salmon, and many, many other species. We've destroyed an awful lot that is precious and beautiful, not to mention part of the system we belong to, too! I've often thought sadly of coming generations, to whom many of the species I get so much pleasure admiring are only available in books. What a sad world that will/would be!

ETA: Oh, I just found your other post.

Quote:
I just had to snark Niki for taking a line I had posted and then using it to start a thread, something she's done before, and then she came down on me for responding to what was obvious bait for me to respond to.

You definitely ARE taking things personally...I put up posts sometimes about things others have mentioned in other threads, especially when something comes up that relates to it. I stumbled across the article and my remark about "ALL" was because that's what many people say, not just you. And it most definitely was NOT any kind of "bait"; I wasn't even thinking of you, for goodness sake! And where you got "came down on me" I can't figure out at all; I re-read my posts and that one eludes me.

Respectfully, I wish you'd stop seeing stuff I post as personal attacks on you, and I REALLY wish you'd stop attributing thoughts and motives to me which have nothing to do with me at all. One of my biggest bugaboos, as I mentioned before, is people speaking for me and telling others what I'm thinking, so please, if you think I'm attacking you or something, could you take just a second to ASK if I am? I promise to reply honestly. You can of course write whatever you want, and I DO mean this respectfully; if we could solve issues between us without seeing them as attacks, that might improve our communication, or at the very least, lessen the hostility some. Or not.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:35 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Mincing! Welcome back, big fella; oh, HOW I have missed your wonderful ability to put things in perspective with gentle humor. I hope you stick around, yours is a voice I really, really enjoy!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:38 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Riona, me too. I learn so many interesting things I never knew before, I can't get enough. I admit I DO switch channels when things kill each other (okay, so I'm a woos)--beautiful as the big cats are (I ADORED Big Cat Diaries), so are the things they kill.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:40 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Raptor, I'll have to find this Brian Cox of whom you speak. I adored Sagan; he made things comprehensible to me, not to mention fun and wondrous. I tried to watch a new series I discovered on space, but it gets so complex I can't follow it, so I gave up. So thanx, I'll look for him.

Oh, damn, I just got to your next post. It WAS "Wonders of the Universe" that I gave up on...it just gets too confusing for my poor little brain to follow. GORGEOUS stuff, tho'. I loved Sagan because he had such a gentle way about him, and explained things so I could understand them.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:44 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Anthony, if I recall correctly, Andromeda Strain was about just what you said, except the scoop went out into space, and the tiny little "life form" it brought back was in the scoop. I could be wrong, it's been ages since I've re-watched it or reread the book. The concept was a wonderful one.

But I don't think it released the life form in a town, the scientists found it in the scoop. I remember them enhancing the microscope bigger and bigger until they found it, and the woman scientist who fell asleep and missed the computer identifying what would kill it...oh, wait, wasn't there a remake? Maybe that's what you're talking about; I never watched it, having too much respect for the original. I made the mistake of watching the remake of "War of the Worlds", and "The Day The Earth Stood Still" and was so disgusted I try to avoid remakes of old movies (especially sci fi) I admired. The old ones relied more on your imagination; new stuff seems to be full of special effects and gore, with little attention to the human aspect. Bah.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 25, 2011 4:51 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Mike; yeah, I've got Cosmos on video tape, and I adored it. Didn't know it was re-broadcast, dammit, as the tapes are old and I'd have adored to get a clean copy. Damn.

Ah, got to your post about Andromeda. I'm glad I didn't give in and try it (I THOUGHT there was a remake); I'd have been spitting nails. I don't mind remakes that are better than the originals, but damned few of them are. On the other hand, Westworld was so silly originally, and there's so MUCH that could be done with it, I too would love a remake of it (if it was done decently). Movies don't do a good job of translating books, often, and I was impressed that the original Andromeda did such a good job.

I'm with Frem about new movies, for the most part. Appealing to the lowest common denominator seems to be the byword of the day, and I'm not one, so they have nothing to say to me. I have to admit, tho', that I do watch some crap and thoroughly enjoy it.

I even BOUGHT "Ghost Rider", which is truly a piece of silliness, but I loved the song and I enjoy everything he's done (except the violent stuff like Con Air!). So my taste isn't all that erudite, I freely admit it. I just like what I like, and when it comes to remakes, they're rarely better than the original.

And I watch almost ALL the made-for-TV stuff put out by SciFi. Sometimes I just can't take it, it's so badly done, but most of the time I enjoy them; they're about the only new sci fi I ever get a chance to see....

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, August 25, 2011 7:51 AM