REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Are jobs obsolete?

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Friday, September 9, 2011 10:10
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4325
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Thursday, September 8, 2011 8:15 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


An interesting article:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/index
.html?iref=NS1

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 8:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Unemployment isn't a measure of the amount of work needed to be done, it's a measure of how much money the rich flow into a sector of the economy.

For example, in the USA today... neighborhoods need rehabilitation; fresh wholesome food needs to be brought to market; forests and grasslands and wetlands need to be restored; the entire infrastructure- from bridges to sewers to electrical lines- need to be replaced or repaired; green energy sources need to be built; children need to be taught; and sick people made well.

The lack of jobs AT THIS POINT has little to do with automation per se and everything to do with the corporate drive for maximum profit.

Maybe some day, in the far far distant future, we as a species will look at our labor-saving devices and say "Enough. It is unhealthy for the human psyche to live in the land of the Eloi. Humans still need a reason to get up in the morning, just as they need to breather" But this isn't that day, because today it's all about maximizing profit.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 9:21 AM

BYTEMITE


Or maybe control over the lower classes through work and debt.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 9:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

For example, in the USA today... neighborhoods need rehabilitation; fresh wholesome food needs to be brought to market; forests and grasslands and wetlands need to be restored; the entire infrastructure- from bridges to sewers to electrical lines- need to be replaced or repaired; green energy sources need to be built; children need to be taught; and sick people made well.profit.



" You have entered into... the kookie left wing twilight zone!!!! "

Fresh wholesome food ? WTF are you even talking about ? It's because of BIG CORPORATIONS , and their EVIL lust for profit, that we HAVE so much fresh food brought to market, probably more so than anywhere else on in the world. And yes, there's been a constant need for repair and updating of our infrastructure, but sadly, too much govt waste has fritted away $ which SHOULD have been directed towards exactly that, and instead doled out to administrators on out of town junkets, over priced pension and medical plans for workers, and your standard govt cronyism run amok. Green Energy ? Sure, where it's viable, but the govt doesn't need to play favorites here.

Teach the children, heal the sick, save the whales, no nukes... .good grief. Got anything besides bumper sticker jingoisms ?



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 9:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


That, from our local flat-earther.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 9:55 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Or maybe control over the lower classes through work and debt.
It's not an either/or Bye, it's both. You can't have money collected up in the hands of a few w/o indebting everyone else and controlling the work which is done (and not done).

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 9:56 AM

BYTEMITE


Yeah.

AURaptor: not familiar with preservatives, eh?

You really can't have fresh and organic, which is what was meant here, without local being in there somewhere.

Also, one of the corporations you're talking about here is Monsato, the USDA and FDA are corrupt, and big commercial farms are paid to let food spoil and fields lie fallow.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 10:33 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
That, from our local flat-earther.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion.


Have you stopped molesting puppies yet ?

Seriously... 'flat earther '?? What the hell is that even suppose to mean ?

Oh, and I see where you bailed on your equally misguided thread about me and Ron Paul.

It's not that you try too hard, but that you fail so consistently.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 10:59 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And yes, there's been a constant need for repair and updating of our infrastructure, but sadly, too much govt waste has fritted away $ which SHOULD have been directed towards exactly that, and instead doled out War-War-War...

Corrected for accuracy.

-F

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 11:05 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Jobs are not obsolete until there is a mechanism in place to make sure everybody gets those basic needs food and shelter.

Until somebody steps up to pay my landlord the rent on my apartment every month, and to pay Ralph's for my groceries and beer, I gotta have a job.

Unless we're talking eliminating my landlord's investment and right to a return on it; and making grocery stores give away food.

Until legislation to fundamentally alter the economic system passes, I need a job. ANd that will never pass given the nature of the political parties.

Not that I would be opposed to spending my time doing creative work-- I'd be willing to work every day 'till I drop, if it was doing things I really wanted to do. But there's no money in the stuff I WANT to do, just satisfaction.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 11:07 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Signe has used that term twice in the last couple of days, I think she wants to spread its use for someone who people consider ignorant, I think she's referring to someone who thinks that earth is flat, as a general euphemism for someone who doesn't know a lot. I think that's what she's doing/insinuating.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 11:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:
For example, in the USA today... neighborhoods need rehabilitation; fresh wholesome food needs to be brought to market; forests and grasslands and wetlands need to be restored; the entire infrastructure- from bridges to sewers to electrical lines- need to be replaced or repaired; green energy sources need to be built; children need to be taught; and sick people made well.

The lack of jobs AT THIS POINT has little to do with automation per se and everything to do with the corporate drive for maximum profit.
Well said, Sig, kudos.

Riona, you needn't bother explaining to Raptor. He understood it, as did all of us. He just found it useful to snark about it. He DIDN'T get what was meant by "fresh, wholesome food", but that's no surprise; I doubt he eats much of it or cares what goes into his food. After all, the FDA is good for nothing and regulations that TRY to keep us safe from tainted food are worthless in his eyes, right?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off


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Thursday, September 8, 2011 11:47 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


By flat-earther, I mean that small group of people who are entirely deluded about the shape of the earth, and completely impervious to contrary evidence.

Economically, rappy is a flat-earther. He has no useful insights to add because he's completely devoid of respect for reality.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 1:23 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Teach the children, heal the sick, save the whales, no nukes... .good grief. Got anything besides bumper sticker jingoisms ?



It's hilarious - Rappy doesn't have any idea at all what "jingoism" even means, yet he is its number one practitioner on this board!

Quote:
Jingoism is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy. In practice, it is a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. Colloquially, it refers to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others – an extreme type of nationalism.


Who does that sound like?

Does that sound like "save the whales, teach the children, no nukes, heal the sick"?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!




"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 1:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And yes, there's been a constant need for repair and updating of our infrastructure, but sadly, too much govt waste has fritted away $ which SHOULD have been directed towards exactly that, and instead doled out.


-F


Sorry Frem, but that's a load of crap on your part. For DECADES, graft and corruption siphoned away $ from the projects in and around New Orleans, resulting in shoddy workmanship, mislaid plans and wasting tax payer's $, so a few contractors, public leaders and suppliers could get "theirs" , and screw everyone else.


Doesn't have 1 god damn thing to do w/ the wars, and you know it.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 1:39 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
By flat-earther, I mean that small group of people who are entirely deluded about the shape of the earth, and completely impervious to contrary evidence.

Economically, rappy is a flat-earther. He has no useful insights to add because he's completely devoid of respect for reality.


Ridiculous and inaccurate. About as valid is tying Darwin and his views in w/ social / political ideas. Darwin himself urged against exactly this sort of thing. If anything, I'm the quantum physics professor, you're stuck in the dark ages.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 1:41 PM

BYTEMITE


New Orleans isn't the only city that currently has infrastructure problems.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 2:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
New Orleans isn't the only city that currently has infrastructure problems.


No, but it's a prime example of what's wrong with the Imperial Federal Govt.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 2:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
New Orleans isn't the only city that currently has infrastructure problems.


No, but it's a prime example of what's wrong with the Imperial Federal Govt.



Funny. During Katrina you claimed that the "Imperial Federal Govt" did everything right in New Orleans.

Now you're saying they didn't?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 2:25 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"No, but it's a prime example of what's wrong with the Imperial Federal Govt."


Hello,

If we reduce the Imperial Fleet and Imperial Army and stop fighting the Imperial Wars then perhaps we'll no longer need to worry about the Imperial Government, and we can reinvest our attention to these infrastructure concerns.

That is, assuming we don't value Empire.

I don't.

Do you?

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 2:28 PM

DREAMTROVE


KPO

Interesting article, thanks.

Anthony, i concur.

ETA: Not really here, just lurking; still a great place to get my news, but not getting into any discussions for probably next six months or so. This is the sort of thing I might want to disucss, but I really lack the time presently. Been reading up on dendrites.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 3:41 PM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, okay. FEMA hasn't been too effective recently. And normally you hope that both the community and places far off will organize - people will drive a long way to help, and will also often gather food or water and send them. But in a place with local government as incompetent as New Orleans, you needed someone there organizing the effort, which was a major fail.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 5:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Teach the children, heal the sick, save the whales, no nukes... .good grief. Got anything besides bumper sticker jingoisms ?



It's hilarious - Rappy doesn't have any idea at all what "jingoism" even means, yet he is its number one practitioner on this board!

Quote:
Jingoism is defined in the Oxford English Dictionary as extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy. In practice, it is a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. Colloquially, it refers to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others – an extreme type of nationalism.


Who does that sound like?

Does that sound like "save the whales, teach the children, no nukes, heal the sick"?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!




Still waiting for Rappy to explain himself on his complete fail at using "jingoism".

Put up or shut up, Rap.

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Friday, September 9, 2011 10:10 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Sorry to say that I find that article yet another example of cnn's alarmist/hyperbolic writing slant, the kind they use to get people to click ads mostly.

"Unless an external source of funding comes in, the post office will have to scale back its operations drastically, or simply shut down altogether. That's 600,000 people who would be out of work, and another 480,000 pensioners facing an adjustment in terms."
He's pretty well just shown exactly why the post office will never get shut down.

"New technologies are wreaking havoc on employment figures -- from EZpasses ousting toll collectors to Google-controlled self-driving automobiles rendering taxicab drivers obsolete. Every new computer program is basically doing some task that a person used to do."

What? Are there that many toll collectors? Enough to consider it "wreaking havoc?" How many taxi cab drivers have been put out of work by Google-controlled self-driving automobiles?? 2? Any?

"America is productive enough that it could probably shelter, feed, educate, and even provide health care for its entire population with just a fraction of us actually working."

Journalists shouldn't use the word "probably." And if a fraction of us are working what are the rest of us doing? Who gets to decide?

This feels like a desperate attempt at an article and maybe to beat a deadline.

While we're here though...

Signym - you hate corps, I get that and to some extent I do too, at least the fact that so much wealth is concentrated in the hands of so few. If you want to rail against Health Care and Big Insurance and Medicare specifically, I am even more there with you. But do you have this deep hate for all business in general? Businesses of all sizes do want to survive, and they will do similar things to keep from going bust (which not ironically saves jobs) - if it's illegal they should be prosecuted, if not, it's fair game.
More importantly: what part of the blame do you attach to consumers and their influence on the way businesses behave? I'm in an industry where the "most successful company" is the company that brings an inferior product to market and has an industry leading POOR level of customer service. They also advertise extensively with what amounts to their version of Hooter girls. So they have no class, they're indifferent to their clients, they have a low quality product, BUT they're the cheapest. And what message does that send to the business world when industry leaders are made by consumers whose only qualifying factor is "make it cheaper" Maybe we're getting what we deserve to a large extent?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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