Oh, those terrible regulations!!!!! That's why the USA has fallen into 5th place by SignyM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I screwed up and posted before I titled it, but check out the one I just put up about Boehner's push to get rid of regulations...we all know where we're going next, eh?

Lawdy, lawdy:

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 12:35 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

I'm surprised the Chinese aren't doing better than we are-- They have a different approach to regulation there, too: put a lot of regulations in place, then ignore them, pay off some bribes, commit a few crimes. Remember all those problems with baby formula and toothpaste a few years ago? Raw, for-profit, unregulated capitalism at its best.

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 12:51 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yup, Sig, you nailed it: This is the new mantra!

Quote:
In back to back news conferences Thursday, rank and file Republicans pounced on President Barack Obama's jobs proposal, saying the president should instead focus on eliminating burdensome government regulations on small business owners.

Ahead of Thursday night's presidential address to a joint session of Congress, Senator John Barrasso, R-Wyoming, took the first swing, demanding "details" on Obama's proposal.

"We want specifics," said Barrasso. "We want to hear that he understands the impact, the heavy wet blanket that regulations are on our job creators. We need to make it easier and cheaper for the private sector to create jobs and it seems what comes out of the White House makes it harder and more expensive to create private sector jobs."

Barrasso led nine Senate and House members from the Western Caucus, which represents states west of Kansas, as they presented their own plan for job creation. Their proposal would roll back regulations on things like pesticide permits {!}, would eliminate what they call "backdoor cap and tax" regulations, and pushes for swift passage of a trio of Free Trade Agreements with Panama, Colombia, and South Korea. They say eliminating regulation and opening up more free trade would create more jobs than Mr. Obama's plan.

Just minutes after the Western Caucus ended their news conference, Sen. Lamar Alexander, R-Tennessee, took to the same podium with another group of GOP senators to push their jobs agenda.

"Republicans are ready to work with the president and to make it easier and cheaper to create private sector jobs. We've suggested a number of ways to do that: lower tax rates with fewer loopholes, fewer regulations."

So this is the cry we'll be hearing from here on out on the right. Obviously they've gotten their marching orders. It blows my mind, it's so transparent. Remember: "small business" doesn't mean your mom-and-pop grocery, we discussed that a while ago. "Small business" means "fewer than 500 employees", it has NOTHING to do with profits or size of the actual company. It's a handy go-to visceral term for people to bandy about, but when they talk about "small businesses" and regulations, they're not really talking about SMALL businesses.

This one is equally mind-boggling:

Quote:
Another issue that some Republicans are taking aim at, Obama's call to extend the payroll tax cut, which gives workers a two percent tax cut in their weekly paychecks. Senator John Thune, R-South Dakota, called it a sugar high and said he "was not a big fan of that when it happened last time."

"It's a $112 billion cost and it's also something that, in my view, is a very short term sort of sugar high, maybe get a very little economy pop in the near term but we ought to be focused on long term policies that will promote economic growth," Thune said.

Senator Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, who co-authored the original payroll tax break bill in 2010, said his support was conditioned on what was attached to the tax extension.

"Well it depends on whether it's conglomerated with a whole bunch of other things we can't support," said Hatch. "Most of us are for tax cuts and that would amount to a tax cut."

That really gets to me; the wealthy can't have their taxes put back to where they LEGALLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN at the end of ten years, which they can easily afford, but by gawd, the poor working stiffs of the country shouldn't be allowed to keep a teeny, weeny little payroll tax cut when they can use every penny they can scrape together!!!

The big Jon Stewart did comes to mind; how not extending the tax cuts for the rich would "only" mean $700 billion, while cutting funding to the Arts would net a whopping "One million dollars!" So $112 billion is HUGE when it comes to extending a payroll tax cut for working slobs, but $700 billion saved by not extending tax cuts for the rich isn't much when it comes to fixing the deficit. How do they get AWAY with this shit?!?!

The guys are making me start to feel physically ill...the hypocrisy is deadening.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 1:13 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I'm surprised the Chinese aren't doing better than we are-- They have a different approach to regulation there, too: put a lot of regulations in place, then ignore them, pay off some bribes, commit a few crimes. Remember all those problems with baby formula and toothpaste a few years ago? Raw, for-profit, unregulated capitalism at its best.

The GOP is hoping to emulate the Chinese model here at home. Long hours, no pay, no workers' rights, and when you get caught poisoning kids, just change the name of the company and start over. No harm, no foul - well, except for all the dead kids, of course. But the GOP calls dead kids "collateral damage", and once abortion is outlawed, kids will be quite easily replaced. ;)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 5:32 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The big Jon Stewart did comes to mind; how not extending the tax cuts for the rich would "only" mean $700 billion, while cutting funding to the Arts would net a whopping "One million dollars!"

Better is when Stewart showed Faux talking heads saying what a little bitty itsy bit of nothing is $700 billion - the result of a 3% tax increase on the wealthy. Only $700 billion. Pshaw. Why bother, right?

Then they go on and on about how the poor need to pay their share. Jon calculated that you can take 50% of everything that the lower 50% earns - that's right, take HALF of the paycheck from everyone earning less than average in this country, all the people who are actually struggling for food, rather than whether to buy that penthouse for their vacation home in Paris rather than the luxury condo two floors down.

What do you suppose get by taking an insane 50% from the lower 50%?

Oh yes.

About $700 billion.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 5:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I'll bet it was those dadgum new fangled ATM kiosks.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 5:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

The GOP is hoping to emulate the Chinese model here at home. Long hours, no pay, no workers' rights, and when you get caught poisoning kids, just change the name of the company and start over. No harm, no foul - well, except for all the dead kids, of course. But the GOP calls dead kids "collateral damage", and once abortion is outlawed, kids will be quite easily replaced. ;)

You forgot to add...

wheel old folks off the sides of cliffs, so we don't have to pay for their SSI / Medicare, lynch black folks, after we burn their churches and reinstate Jim Crow laws, end women's suffrage, force gays to wear pink triangles on their sleeves, ( and muslims to wear patches of the WTC towers, in flames, just as a reminder ).

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, September 8, 2011 7:07 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Oh, those terrible regulations!!!!!"

Hello,

Maybe you are literally correct, in that the regulations we have are not of the appropriate quality.

Perhaps the question should not be merely more or less regulation, but regulation that has the maximum desired effect and the minimum undesirable effect.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, September 9, 2011 2:45 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Really, Tony. Have you even the faintest idea of the regulations in those nations? How about Singapore, where (as I recall) a western kid got caned for vandalism in Singapore? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay.

Be a dear, and look up not only the regulations in the aforementioned nations, but also the percent of GDP which the government spends every year, the percent of taxes on the rich, the amount of military spending, the health care system, and- perhaps most importantly- corruption and lawbreaking by the upper class.

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Friday, September 9, 2011 7:48 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah Mal4, I liked that bit too. With the addition that what's needed is $1.4 trillion...so if we take ALL of EVERYTHING THE POOR OWN IN THE WORLD hey ho, we'll solve it all!

Quote:
Perhaps the question should not be merely more or less regulation, but regulation that has the maximum desired effect and the minimum undesirable effect.

Absolutely, Anthony. But that's not the point; Republicans want ALL regulations done away with, they don't CARE whether they're effective or not. Putting regulations in place to safeguard humans always cost money, that's their complaint. It cuts into the bottom line, good or bad, and that's what they want to get rid of.

Quote:
wheel old folks off the sides of cliffs, so we don't have to pay for their SSI / Medicare, lynch black folks, after we burn their churches and reinstate Jim Crow laws, end women's suffrage, force gays to wear pink triangles on their sleeves, ( and muslims to wear patches of the WTC towers, in flames, just as a reminder )

Oh, wow, is that the Republican platform now? I never thought they'd go THAT far!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, September 9, 2011 8:02 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Really, Tony. Have you even the faintest idea of the regulations in those nations? How about Singapore, where (as I recall) a western kid got caned for vandalism in Singapore? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay.

Be a dear, and look up not only the regulations in the aforementioned nations, but also the percent of GDP which the government spends every year, the percent of taxes on the rich, the amount of military spending, the health care system, and- perhaps most importantly- corruption and lawbreaking by the upper class.

Hello,

I don't understand. Are we of some different opinion? Are we arguing?

Do you think I support caning? Did you leap to that end because I suggested that maybe we should not worry as much about the quantity of regulation, and instead the quality of regulation?

Do you think Singapore caning was on my mind when I said that?

What are you thinking?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, September 9, 2011 9:40 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

How about some specifics on what regulations the Republicans have targeted first?

On August 29, 2011, House Majority Leader Eric Cantor sent a memo to House Republicans outlining votes planned this fall to repeal or block specific regulatory actions, seven of which are rules proposed or recently adopted by EPA. They call them "JOB-DESTROYING REGULATIONS TO CREATE MIDDLE CLASS JOBS"

1. Air Toxics Standards for Utilities

--Maximum achievable control technology (MACT) standards: It proposed mercury and air toxics standards for power plants: Proposed National Emission Standards for Hazardous Air Pollutants From Coal- and Oil-Fired Electric Utility Steam Generating Units and Standards of Performance for Fossil-Fuel-Fired Electric Utility, Industrial-Commercial-Institutional, and Small Industrial-Commercial-Institutional Steam Generating Units

--Cross-state air pollution rule (CSAPR) for utility plants. Requires Tennessee and 26 other states to cut power plant emissions that cause air quality problems in downwind states. The EPA says the rule's impact on utility prices will be within the range of normal price fluctuations and estimates that between 650 and 1,700 premature deaths will be avoided in Tennessee because of reduced pollution. Details at http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/utility/utilitypg.html

(During the week of Sept. 19, the House planned to vote on legislation that would delay implementation of these rules until an analysis of the cumulative impact of EPA rules has been completed. But both the above have already been pulled; thank you Obama.)

--Boiler MACT: The boiler MACT would impose exacting emissions standards upon fossil fuel and biomass-fired boilers nationwide, regulating emissions of hazardous air pollutants from industrial, commercial, and institutional boilers located at major source facilities. A major source facility emits or has the potential to emit 10 or more tons per year (tpy) of any single air toxic or 25 tpy or more of any combination of air toxics. The flawed Council of Industrial Boiler Owners's study projecting devastating economic impacts: massive losses in economic output and jobs was condemned by the Congressional Research Service, among others, for making three critical errors inconsistent with basic economic theory and greatly exaggerating compliance costs, leading CRS to conclude that “little credence can be placed in CIBO’s estimate of job losses.”

(EPA hasn't finalized it yet, and the Republicans and business groups are fighting it.)

--Cement MACT: The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is issuing final rules that will protect Americans’ health by cutting emissions of mercury, particle pollution and other harmful pollutants from Portland cement manufacturing, the third-largest source of mercury air emissions in the United States. The rules are expected to yield $7 to $19 in public health benefits for every dollar in costs. Mercury can damage children’s developing brains, and particle pollution is linked to a wide variety of serious health effects, including aggravated asthma, irregular heartbeat, heart attacks, and premature death in people with heart and lung disease.

“Americans throughout the country are suffering from the effects of pollutants in our air, especially our children who are more vulnerable to these chemicals,” EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson said. “This administration is committed to reducing pollution that is hurting the health of our communities. With this historic step, we are going a long way in accomplishing that goal. By reducing harmful pollutants in the air we breathe, we cut the risk of asthma attacks and save lives.”

This action sets the nation’s first limits on mercury air emissions from existing cement kilns, strengthens the limits for new kilns, and sets emission limits that will reduce acid gases. This final action also limits particle pollution from new and existing kilns, and sets new-kiln limits for particle and smog-forming nitrogen oxides and sulfur dioxide.

(A bill sponsored by Rep. John Sullivan, R-Okla., would provide a legislative stay and provide EPA with at least 15 months to re-propose and finalize new versions.)

--Coal ash: Environmentalists point to a massive coal ash spill at TVA's Kingston power plant in 2008 as proof that states aren't doing enough to control the waste. But many coal-state lawmakers say federal regulation would raise utility costs and hinder industries that reuse coal ash in commercial products such as wallboard, carpet or concrete.

(In October or November, the House will vote on a bill that would prevent the EPA from regulating coal ash as hazardous waste and instead allow states to manage ash as municipal garbage.)

--Tougher ozone standards: Would save money currently lost when Americans get sick from air pollution. "Those rules will generate billions of economic benefits in excess of compliance costs," said Michael Livermore, executive director of the Institute for Policy Integrity at New York University School of Law. "With each year of delay, that means additional costs imposed on the public, included lost productivity, hospital bills, more asthma cases and untimely deaths."

(This Winter the House intended to pass legislation to prevent the EPA from tightening air quality standards to reduce ozone pollution from power plants and other sources, but Obama beat them to it, pulling it.)

--Particulate Matter: The new rules call for a 90 percent cut in particulate matter (smoke) and a 50 percent reduction in oxides of nitrogen emissions, often referred to as "smog" because they contribute to the formation of atmospheric pollution. T^he new requirements replace the current Tier 3 emissions rules which mandated a 40 percent reduction in oxides of nitrogen compared with standards earlier in effect. Final Tier 4/Stage IV regulations will take emissions of particulate matter and oxides of nitrogen to near-zero levels by 2014.

(They've already passed H.R.1633: Farm Dust Regulation Prevention Act of 2011
in the House to prevent this.)

--Greenhouse Gases: "EPA to Set Modest Pace for Greenhouse Gas Standards / Agency stresses flexibility and public input in developing cost-effective and protective GHG standards for largest emitters "

In 2010, the EPA issued its plan for establishing greenhouse gas (GHG) pollution standards under the Clean Air Act in 2011. The agency looked at a number of sectors and is moving forward on GHG standards for fossil fuel power plants and petroleum refineries—two of the largest industrial sources, representing nearly 40 percent of the GHG pollution in the United States.The Clean Air Act requires EPA to set new source performance standards (NSPS) for industrial categories that cause, or significantly contribute to, air pollution that may endanger public health or welfare.

Several states, local governments and environmental organizations sued EPA over the agency’s failure to update the pollution standards for fossil fuel power plants and petroleum refineries, two of the largest source categories of GHG pollution in the United States. EPA will propose standards for power plants in July 2011 and for refineries in December 2011 and will issue final standards in May 2012 and November 2012, respectively.

(Chairman Upton and the Energy and Commerce Committee are expected to move swiftly in the coming months to prohibit the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency from promulgating any regulation concerning, taking action relating to, or taking into consideration the emission of a greenhouse gas to address climate change.)

I may not have up-to-date information on all of this, the information is garnered from a whole bunch of different sites to put together a fairly concise explanation of the regulations and what the GOP intends to or already is doing about them. Gives you an idea, anyway, of how the business community wants us to be protected by THEM, not regulations requiring them not to make life less toxic.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, September 9, 2011 11:23 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Here is something to think about, regulations can and do create jobs.

How so? Well how do you think companies meet those regulations? They have to hire people or other companies to do the work required to meet the regulations.

Take a very simple requirement for community water systems. There is a rule which says systems must exercise isolation valves at least once per year. Large municipal systems may have hundreds of valves to exercise. Which means they often have to hire someone and/or buy equipment to do it.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, September 9, 2011 12:06 PM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Here is something to think about, regulations can and do create jobs.

How so? Well how do you think companies meet those regulations? They have to hire people or other companies to do the work required to meet the regulations.

Take a very simple requirement for community water systems. There is a rule which says systems must exercise isolation valves at least once per year. Large municipal systems may have hundreds of valves to exercise. Which means they often have to hire someone and/or buy equipment to do it.

We could just legislate that all McDonald's restaurants must have a maître d’ and table service and we could have full employment. We could all live happily ever after eating fifty dollar big macs.

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Friday, September 9, 2011 1:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Yeah Mal4, I liked that bit too. With the addition that what's needed is $1.4 trillion...so if we take ALL of EVERYTHING THE POOR OWN IN THE WORLD hey ho, we'll solve it all!
Quote:
Perhaps the question should not be merely more or less regulation, but regulation that has the maximum desired effect and the minimum undesirable effect.
Absolutely, Anthony. But that's not the point; Republicans want ALL regulations done away with, they don't CARE whether they're effective or not. Putting regulations in place to safeguard humans always cost money, that's their complaint. It cuts into the bottom line, good or bad, and that's what they want to get rid of.
Quote:
wheel old folks off the sides of cliffs, so we don't have to pay for their SSI / Medicare, lynch black folks, after we burn their churches and reinstate Jim Crow laws, end women's suffrage, force gays to wear pink triangles on their sleeves, ( and muslims to wear patches of the WTC towers, in flames, just as a reminder )
Oh, wow, is that the Republican platform now? I never thought they'd go THAT far!

Of course the GOP won't actually wheel old people off cliffs. It's much easier and more efficient for them to simply cut off any and all support to the sick and elderly and leave them to die alone, where hopefully nobody will have to hear their screams for help.

Ron and Rand Paul have all but called for bringing back Jim Crow laws, and several state legislatures have passed modern Jim Crow laws and poll taxes aimed specifically at keeping the poor from voting. This view against letting poor people vote has been expressly endorsed by the right.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201109030006

And yes, Republican pundits and lawmakers have indeed proposed outlawing homosexuality, in effect forcing gays to wear their little pink triangles.

Muslims, of course, aren't free to practice their religion, according to candidate Herman Cain (no wonder Rappy supports him!) who insists that First Amendment protections don't include Muslims.

So, while not explicitly stated in their party platform, Rappy has indeed summed up quite nicely what their stated goals are. That actually might be the truest thing he has ever posted anywhere.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, September 9, 2011 1:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Here is something to think about, regulations can and do create jobs.

How so? Well how do you think companies meet those regulations? They have to hire people or other companies to do the work required to meet the regulations.

Take a very simple requirement for community water systems. There is a rule which says systems must exercise isolation valves at least once per year. Large municipal systems may have hundreds of valves to exercise. Which means they often have to hire someone and/or buy equipment to do it.

We could just legislate that all McDonald's restaurants must have a maître d’ and table service and we could have full employment. We could all live happily ever after eating fifty dollar big macs.

You have a radically different idea of "happily" than I do. I don't consider raging diarrhea a "happy" existence, but it seems you do. Maybe you should go work at Taco Bell; if you're an employee, you get it free.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, September 9, 2011 1:48 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I can confirm that changes to regulations concerning the collections practices of banks has caused the creation of many jobs. The cost of such jobs will probably be worked into the bank fee structure somewhere. However, the regulations appear to have addressed a real problem consumers were having. Good regulations should be aimed at correcting real problems, and not merely used to create jobs for their own sake. I would not support the McDonalds regulation for this reason, but other regulations are probably more worthwhile.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Friday, September 9, 2011 2:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Oh, wow, is that the Republican platform now? I never thought they'd go THAT far!

No, but the Left wingers love to spread the lie that it is. It's what the Left tends to do, about everything.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:09 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
We could just legislate that all McDonald's restaurants must have a maître d’ and table service and we could have full employment. We could all live happily ever after eating fifty dollar big macs.

Sure, but you would have to do that to all fast food restaurants, hell all restaurants for that matter, for that to work.

Better idea is increase food safety regulations across the board.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, September 10, 2011 1:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:
Oh, wow, is that the Republican platform now? I never thought they'd go THAT far!

No, but the Left wingers love to spread the lie that it is. It's what the Left tends to do, about everything.

Not really a lie if it's an accurate representation of the GOP position.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/09/09/314419/paul-ryan-mocks-sen
ior-citizen-handcuffed-at-his-town-hall-i-hope-hes-taking-his-blood-pressure-medication/

Quote:
House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-WI), the author of the House GOP plan to phase out Medicare, does not like it when constituents publicly challenge him. In fact, people who disagree with Ryan have a habit of getting arrested for it. A few weeks ago, several of Ryan’s unemployed constituents staged a peaceful sit-in at his Kenosha, Wisconsin office to protest his unpopular decision not to hold any free public town halls during the August recess. These constituents didn’t think they should have to pay to ask their elected representative a question. Instead of meeting with them, Ryan’s staff called the police.
So it should come as no surprise that this week, three people who paid to see Ryan speak were arrested and charged with trespassing for protesting the event. One constituent, a 71-year-old retired plumber from Kenosha, Wisconsin, was handcuffed and pushed to the ground by security:
Video footage taken by an attendee at the event shows that one of them, Tom Nielsen, received particularly harsh treatment — he was pushed to the ground and handcuffed. Nielsen received an additional charge of resisting arrest.
Ryan was speaking Tuesday afternoon at the Whitnall Park Rotary Club. Protesters gathered both outside his event and inside, standing up and disrupting the congressman’s remarks.
According to Oak Creek Patch, as many as a dozen protesters were escorted out of the event. Another dozen or so left willingly.
Ryan seemed supremely undisturbed that a senior citizen worried about receiving the Medicare he’s paid into his whole life was treated so brutally. Indeed, Ryan made light of the arrest and quipped to the audience, “I hope he’s taking his blood pressure medication.”

Ryan shows himself and the GOP for who they really are, laughing at senior citizens as they're pushed to the ground, then mocking them for being concerned about Ryan's plan to abolish Social Security.

It's what the right does, time and time again.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, September 12, 2011 7:01 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

That's not only disgusting, it is a clear example of what these neophite Tea Party and Republican politicians stand for. It speaks pretty clearly. "You don't count; you're old and will die, so why not do it now and spare us the expense?" That IS at the bottom of some of their minds, I don't doubt it. None of this affects them personally, so it's a further example of "I've got mine; fuck you". And it's sick as hell.

Someone should have hollered "Yeah, but he won't be able to AFFORD his blood-pressure medication if you get your way!" Wouldn't have meant a thing to him, of course.

As far as regulations costing, here's a thought. If government is supposed to help protect the country, and we want to be free of lead-based toys for children and tainted food, maybe we should be willing to kick in some to help with the regulating. I don't like it; nobody likes it, especially at this time in our country, but ANYTHING that affects the bottom line will be passed on to us, remember. Like the advertising to get us to buy the product. I'm GLAD for the little required disclaimers on ad for medicines, so that I can decide whether it's worth taking the chance rather than just thinking "Hey, that's neat, I'll get some!" So is it worth it to pay a bit more to do something about the things the government agencies bring to light and seek to change? One is short sighted: "I don't want to pay any more" (which in essence is like saying "I'll take my chances"). The other sees the long view: "If we demand changes which make things safer, millions of people will benefit from here on and there will be less money spent on treating them after the fact".

Just how I see it; I do NOT argue that there are bad regulations, or that there are good regulations which are implemented stupidly, or that there are regulations that go too far. But I'd rather have the choice whether to buy lead-based toys for my kids or take the chance on ingesting food which may make me sick, thank you. I'd rather wear regulated hard hats and a seat belt and be INFORMED of stuff I'd not otherwise know about, and damned hard as it is, I'm willing to pay my share.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, September 12, 2011 1:30 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

You know a regulation that I think we need? We need a rule that one can't market prescription medicines on TV. That doesn't belong on commercials. It pisses me off when I see those adverts, especially since they are brasenly showing adds for really hefty medicines that aren't apropriate for TV. You shouldn't go ask your doctor if Seriquel is right for you. If you need to take seriquel then fine, but that's between you, your doctor, and research and its not the type of medicine you ought to go ask for because you're feeling depressed. Good grief.
I know that isn't related, but Niki said something about medicine labels and I was like Ohmygoodness... etc.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, September 12, 2011 1:37 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I have no special hatred in my heart for medicine advertisements. They are often a source of amusement.

"Depressonex, for the treatment of depression. May cause feelings of sadness, anxiety, and paranoia. May contribute to sudden death, diarrhea, heart palpitations, stroke, or coma. In some limited cases, may cause bowels to explode. Should not be taken if you are pregnant or intend to become pregnant, or else your child will be born with a developmental disease and possibly three arms.

Depressonex. A Depression medicine for a depressing world."

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, September 12, 2011 3:46 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh yes...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SideEffectsInclude?from=Mai
n.YesButWhatDoesZataproximetacineDO

Gallows humor, of a sort - and I do concur that perhaps television is not the place for Big Pharma to advertise such things, but I would rather that happen by mutual consensus rather than regulation.

The one that set ME off - one day I got woke up early by the cats and was flipping though what I guess passes for saturday morning cartoons these days, and right there in the middle of a set of them clearly aimed at young girls was a commercial for....
A cosmetic surgery clinic.

The things I've seen and done, it's not easy to horrify me, but THAT did it - breakfast forgotten, there I was ripping through the telephone book, yanking the phone off the hook and in short order taking *issue* with them about it, followed up by winding up public outrage sufficient to have said clinic not only kicked off the airwaves but all but run out of here on a rail wearing tar and feathers.

To borrow another trope...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvenEvilHasStandards

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, September 12, 2011 4:03 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Frem a chara, I think that if society did vote on whether those ads should be allowed or not the resounding answer would be no more, that shouldn't be for TV. I agree that it should be voted on, like so many other things that aren't given to us to vote on.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 11:05 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
You know a regulation that I think we need? We need a rule that one can't market prescription medicines on TV. That doesn't belong on commercials. It pisses me off when I see those adverts, especially since they are brasenly showing adds for really hefty medicines that aren't apropriate for TV. You shouldn't go ask your doctor if Seriquel is right for you. If you need to take seriquel then fine, but that's between you, your doctor, and research and its not the type of medicine you ought to go ask for because you're feeling depressed. Good grief.
I know that isn't related, but Niki said something about medicine labels and I was like Ohmygoodness... etc.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

You are not allowed to directly market prescription drugs in australia. They find other cleverer ways to gain control of our minds.

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 2:40 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, while not a perfect solution, at least a vote would be some form of consensus, which is better than none at all, yeah.

Another thing which oughta be voted out is flashy-spinny billboards... there was another horrible accident on I-275 South up here right next to the one they have, there's at least SOME kind of accident there every damn day, cause they're very distracting, I've had to run off into the dirt myself once to avoid someone wandering out of their lane cause of the damn thing.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 3:47 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

The article on Ryan's reaction is a perfect example of the other thread; that the Tea Party would be just fine with sick people dying to avoid the cost of helping them out (however it would be done).

I agree about advertising on TV, especially when it comes to mental illness. Sickens me to listen to those caveats, and having had to experiment with different meds before finding my own cocktail, I know a bit about how some of those side effects FEEL. It's dangerous, and doctors should know about meds and be the ONLY ones to advocate them--which isn't a good solution either, given how they're in the pocket of Big Pharma, but better than people seeing ads and thinking 'cool, I'll go for that!' without understanding the consequences. I like Australia's way--they ALWAYS find a way to get to us, but TV advertising is just wrong IMO.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:26 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Frem, I'm surprised some terrible 'malfunction' hasn't befallen the billboard. Sometimes wiring gets cut, sometimes luminary components are damaged by airborne projectiles, and sometimes hackers maliciously change the billboard programming to discontinue flashing aspects.

It's terrible what people do to curtail freedom of speech in this country. There seem to be a hundred subtle ways to violate people's rights. Just because drivers are becoming endangered is no reason to employ one or more of these techniques to correct the problem.

If such Billboards really are a concern, then responsible citizens should band together and seek a legislative solution through their local representatives.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:43 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ahh, Anthony, you do it so WELL!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:50 AM