REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

To be(lieve) or not to be(lieve)

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 04:13
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Monday, September 12, 2011 7:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Something which caught my eye this morning...I'm not sure whether to teake heart in it or not. Personally, I don't think the Tea Party and hard-liners will LET them do any compromising, but I've become a cynic on the issue. On the other hand, maybe they think they can keep the parts they like and bully Obama and the dems into getting rid of the stuff they DON'T like--it's worked before. Who knows?
Quote:

As it considers President Barack Obama's $447 billion jobs plan, many members of a divided Congress appeared Friday to be in a compromising mood, seemingly eager to placate voters sick of infighting and inaction when it comes to jump-starting the economy.

Top House Republicans -- who have butted heads with Obama and his fellow Democrats on most every major policy effort since taking over the chamber early this year -- went into the speech reserving judgment, and struck a collaborative tone after listening to the president's laundry list of proposals.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, who served as one of Obama's chief foils during this summer's debt debate, was among those signaling an intent to cooperate.

"I heard plenty in the president's speech last night where I think that there is a lot of room for commonality, and we can get something done quickly," Cantor told CNN on Friday.
.....
But the pivot by House Republicans -- who, unlike most Senate Republicans, face re-election races in 2012 -- may stem from blunt messages they heard from constituents over the summer recess, as well as paltry public support according to recent polls.

"The American public is fed up with Washington -- understandably," said Rep. Mike Simpson, R-Idaho.

But the veteran Republican also pointed out the reality that voters helped shape the political dynamic by voting in a divided government.

"It's not that we are opposing the president on any given thing, or the Democrats on any given thing because they're Democrats," said Simpson. "It's because we have a different philosophy of how to get the economy going and what needs to be done than they do."
.....
"I like the fact that he defended the role of government in people's lives. And I loved that he's engaged in the fight," he said.

Grijalva, one of a host of liberal Democrats who were pushing for a large-scale, stimulus-style plan, called the president's speech a "good first step."

"It needs to be strengthened," he added.

Working out such alterations is sometimes the most contentious part of the lawmaking process. {There lies my fear that they'll gut the good and keep what they like}
.....
There was also some dissent, in Republican circles, on the president's push to rebuild roads, railways and airports. Some in the party said it is an approach, depending on how it is paid for, that they could support.
.....
There's also pushback from Republicans on the proposal to use federal money to help rebuild schools, a responsibility they believe lies with state and local governments.

"All of the sudden the federal government takes over building schools? I don't know if that's a challenge we want to take on," said Simpson, the Idaho Republican.

Whether such distinct proposals are packaged into a single bill, or several smaller ones, is another matter of contention.

On Friday, Boehner and other House Republican leaders sent the president a letter saying they don't see the proposal as a single, unified package.

"As we are certain your advisers have told you, not all your ideas should be packaged in a single legislative vehicle," the letter stated. {There it is again; put all the tax cuts in one bill, we'll pass it (maybe); put infrastructure in another bill, and we'll kill it.}
.....
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, who will need to win over at least seven Republicans to get the 60 votes needed to pass the president's plan in the Senate, said Friday the chamber will "begin debate on this proposal as soon as possible.

"I urge reasonable Republicans to resist the voices of those who would oppose this legislation -- and root for our economy to fail -- for political reasons," the Nevada Democrat said. {I'm actually getting to respect Reid; he understands politics, and if it weren't for the recalcitrant Tea Partiers and hard liners, I think he'd have helped get some stuff done already}

One of the Republicans Reid will need to attract is Sen. Scott Brown of Massachusetts, a key moderate, who said Thursday he will consider voting for the plan.

"I've always kept an open mind on every piece of legislation," Brown said. "I'll read the bill, and I'll understand it. Then if it's good for Massachusetts, creates jobs, is good for the country, handles the debt and deficit the way he said he was, then I look forward to working with him."

But other Republicans in the chamber didn't appear so open to the president's speech. Freshman Rep. Raul Labrador, R-Idaho, said he wanted to work with the president on some of the items. More at http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/09/09/obama.plan.congress/index.html?
hpt=hp_bn2

There it is again. I'm betting those who say they're willing to compromise intend to go for the tax cuts and trash the rest.

I've got an idea (which of course won't happen). Break it into smaller bills; one bill with a tax cut and infrastructure; another with one of the other tax cuts and fixing schools; and so forth. Give 'em a tax cut for each thing that actually HELPS, and see what they do then. But for gawd's sake, don't give 'em all the tax cuts in one bill; they'll pass that and nothing else!



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Monday, September 12, 2011 7:48 AM

BYTEMITE


...I'm not sure whether to be worried by the fact that at first breath they all seem to like it, or to be worried about what they could do to it and slip in during negotiation.

I hate politics. ._.

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Monday, September 12, 2011 8:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Boy, do I agree with THAT! They don't "all" like it, obviously, and there may well be enough of them who don't to keep it from going anywhere, but like you, I'm not sure where it WOULD go, if they agree with any of it! I'm not sure what to believe at this point, or what to WISH for!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, September 12, 2011 8:34 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Why should the GOP compromise with that which has proven to not work and isn't even a real plan in the first place ? Just the the sake of compromise ? Screw that... give us something that works, first, and we'll talk. This ? More stimulus nonsense and IOU's, to be paid long after Obama is out of office.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 12, 2011 8:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


All you ever seem able to do, Raptor, is beat dead horses and spout right-wing propaganda. It surprises me that you don't get tired of it and try something different. Maybe you can't, maybe you don't KNOW anything but the propaganda you hear/read, I dunno. Just sad.

Wail on.




Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, September 12, 2011 11:27 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Hell, all Obama knows how to do is spout communist propaganda, "tax the rich , not paying their fair share, blah blah blah...", and this imaginary bill is just more of the same.

You think that, just because he gave a speech amped upon Redbull , and shouted " PASS MY BILL ! PASS MY BILL ! " 12 times that it's going to change the context of his message ?

It didn't, and the American people see through his charade.

Well, most of us do.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, September 12, 2011 1:14 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I just hope that whatever bill is passed, whatever is agreed upon, I just hope it helps, because we need things to get better.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 2:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I just hope that whatever bill is passed, whatever is agreed upon, I just hope it helps, because we need things to get better.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



There are many who now believe that Obama doesn't want things to get better. His ideas and programs are counter productive to achieving his stated goals.


He's offering more of the same, because that's exactly what he wants... more of the same.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 3:17 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


A prediction: If there are enough earmarks and enough pork for enough Republican districts, the R's will "compromise" on their principles and take the money. Then blame the D's and Obama for everything that goes wrong.

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 3:36 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
I just hope that whatever bill is passed, whatever is agreed upon, I just hope it helps, because we need things to get better.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya



There are many who now believe that Obama doesn't want things to get better. His ideas and programs are counter productive to achieving his stated goals.


He's offering more of the same, because that's exactly what he wants... more of the same.




I'd go with "politicians in general" and plural grammar sense and "they" and "they are." But otherwise close enough.

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:38 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hell, all Obama knows how to do is spout communist propaganda.....



Why respond to an idiot that uses "communism" as a blanket word for anything he doesn't like.

Really, people - Rappy is a friggin moron. Why do you bother??

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hell, all Obama knows how to do is spout communist propaganda.....



Why respond to an idiot that uses "communism" as a blanket word for anything he doesn't like.

Really, people - Rappy is a friggin moron. Why do you bother??





Because it's not a blanket word for anything I don't like, it accurately applies to Obama, and his policies.

Most of how Obama plans to pay for this ( yet imaginary ) bill is from raising taxes on the wealthy. Or, those he considers to be "wealthy". Twice already , once in the '09 general budget, and again with OCare, Obama has tried to instigate this tax hike and twice it's failed. Even WITH the super majority he had in the House, he STILL couldn't get this idea passed.

It's doomed from the very start, and he KNOWS this. That's why he's still not submitted a plan, even though he said he'd have one, after the Labor Day weekend vacation. He said he'd let Congress figure out the details on how it should be paid for, then he does a quick 180, and now says HE'LL work out the details himself.

What a gorram joke. He's not remotely serious w/ this, he's just trying to play up the class warfare card, and paint the GOP as being mean, evil bullies.

The man has no clue, all he can muster is envy, division and hatred.


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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 10:14 AM

STORYMARK


Sure Rappy.... suuuuure.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:13 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hear, hear, Story. But you READ his post, silly one, and that's not much better. I save a lot of time lately by just skipping over them like I do PNs.
Quote:

Really, people - Rappy is a friggin moron. Why do you bother??
Gee, sounds like me... But I think more a troll and someone desperately needing attention than merely a moron. Tho' that too, probably.

Well, I "got it" where the jobs bill is concerned. They'll block it, period. Once it came out that paying for it was to be closing loopholes for oil companies and reducing deductions, etc., that pretty much settled it. Gawd forbid they and their rich overlords would allow THAT to happen!!! So it's a dead horse, as has been everything Obama or the dems proposed since he took office. Same old, same old.

It's what they want; there have been numerous pundits wondering about it for ages, and it took me a long, long time to accept it, but it's clear by now and I can no longer ignore it. By blocking everything, even the good things, Republicans have been working steadily to keep things bad or make them WORSE in hopes of winning in 2012. Hard to believe they'd do that, but the more I see, the less difficult it is to believe. Talk about inhuman!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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