Five Myths About Healthy Eating by Geezer

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I have to admit that occasionally I see resturant commercials that make me want to eat what they're showing, yum, I love eating. My naturopath is telling me that I need to eat some protein every morning and something for lunch, plus snacks. That sounds tiring and annoying, I'm trying to do better at it but its annoying because I like eating one big meal a day, usually at dinner, and a few little snacks. If I don't eat in the morning I'm not hungry later. If I do eat in the morning, as I've discovered this week, I'm ravenously hungry all day and its really distracting and I don't like it. I'm going to get fat if I keep eating breakfast every day, even just a tiny bit of it. But she's annimant about it, errrrrgh. She's also expensive too, I don't know how long I'll be able to afford this naturopathic mental health thing, we'll see how it goes.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

I find the same. If I eat porridge for breakfast, I'm starving an hour later. It kick starts your metabolism. Lately I stick to having a veg/fruit juice for breakfast, and it tends to stifle my hunger. Not sure why.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:28 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: It seems however, that you prefer to point the finger of blame at your favourite target groups, poor disenfranchised racial minorities.

You see target groups, and 'minorities'.

I just see - people.

As Mal said, "We're all just folk ".

All of us.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Coming into the discussion late, so this'll be long, as I'm responding as I read.

Quote:
There are all sorts of things you COULD do - to save time, and money, and effort - if only you could get ahead by a few hundred dollars here or there. But you are always right on the edge of going under. So you can't.

Bang on, Kiki! Heck, coming up with that on any given month is virtually impossible for US, unless we tap into savings, and we're not poor! I have a hard time conceiving of poor people having that much at any given moment to spend as they choose...especially given the number of kids living in poverty right NOW who go to bed hungry! It seems like a glaring blind spot to think poor people can put away ANYTHING to save up for a big purchase, especially these days.

I'm glad you brought up the sodium thing, too, which often gets overlooked. Even if one can afford to feed one's family on frozen dinners, the amount of sodium in virtually ALL our frozen and packaged meals in America is incredible. So is the sugar content; Jo was astonished when she lived her that there seems to be sugar in virtually everything we eat. I guess it's different in England, but then THEY eat fat--literally, we'd make a roast and Jo would grab the fat immediately, and cooked everything in grease...she said in England they use LARD a lot more than we do, too! I know that's partly because it's a cold-weather climate and they've got generations of evolution to make them that way, but it made me have to turn away, given I generally use Pam or no oil at all!

Ah, Magons, thanx--everything you wrote is valid, and you gave me Jamie Oliver's name back. He was the one trying to deal with that obese family with the diabetic son. Apparently he's doing work over here now, too, and I've caught some of his stuff--like pouring all the ingredients into a big tarp so kids can see what actually goes in. I admire him and wish him all the luck in the world, but after what I saw with that one family, I hope he doesn't get too discouraged by us Yanks!

Quote:
what we see now is generational behaviour, which is hard to crack.

Absofrigginlootely!

Because of high cholesterol and the resulting arteriosclerosis, Jim started making his own meals years ago. I gag at them, sometimes I call them "bean soup" and being a vegaphobic, I couldn't eat them, but after a couple of years we found that there were things he literally could NOT eat anymore. I'd make a dish I thought was fine, he'd try to eat it and had to give up fairly quickly, it was just what he called "too rich" for him. So obviously there's a metabolic change and it takes time; put that against the ease of fast foods, advertising, finances and other factors, and I think weaning our nation off it's epidemic obesity is damned hard.

My gawd, it's a 1% day for Raptor (where I'm concerned):

Quote:
Social trends are nothing more than individuals making choices, and falling in line w/ the collective group think. If those around you are a little chunky, then hey, why not... you'll fit right in if you have that extra big mac. Monkey see, monkey do. It's the individuals who choose to NOT follow the heard that 'stand out', and often get peer pressured into falling in line.

I absolutely agree. I disagree with Kiki; there is a lot of peer pressure among young people, and if the group is going out for pizza, for example, one of them has to be pretty self-assured to order a salad, or not go at all. I think he makes a very valid point.

His experience may be different from yours, Byte, but that doesn't make it any less valid. MY experience was much more akin to his; I was mostly a loner, shy, and the victim of bullying and teasing. To be INVITED to go have pizza with other kids (high school, I'm talking about) was neat enough, I didn't care WHAT I actually ate! And I've been around a group of students when one of them has said "I'll have the ____, I'm a vegetarian" when that slightly isolated that kid just like saying you don't drink at a cocktail party. MUCH LESS these days, but back then, it was very real, and I think it's still quite real to many young people.

Quote:
Those who deviate from everyone else, tend to get noticed.

is totally true, when talking of teenagers.

I don't think he's saying people WANT to be overweight, certainly the advertising makes young women particularly WANT to be slim, etc. But when with a group of teenagers, yes, I see the peer pressure to eat something. It's obviously not the whole answer, but it's one part of it.

Riona:

Quote:
I have to admit that occasionally I see resturant commercials that make me want to eat what they're showing, yum, I love eating. My naturopath is telling me that I need to eat some protein every morning and something for lunch, plus snacks. That sounds tiring and annoying, I'm trying to do better at it but its annoying because I like eating one big meal a day, usually at dinner, and a few little snacks. If I don't eat in the morning I'm not hungry later. If I do eat in the morning, as I've discovered this week, I'm ravenously hungry all day and its really distracting and I don't like it. I'm going to get fat if I keep eating breakfast every day, even just a tiny bit of it.

That made me laugh, it's SO familiar. I have a glass of V8 and a banana when I first get up and sit at the computer. After that, I don't notice I'm hungry for "breakfast" until sometimes after noon, so I eat something. After that I forget about food until some time after 6:00, when I eat (what is for me) a BIG meal, and keep right on eating sweets until bedtime. It's a really hard habit to break, and if I eat a proper breakfast at the proper time, I, too, continue to be hungry all day. Apparently you, Magons and I have the same problem!

Jim's health is such that he HAS to eat something every four hours. He eats healthy, but I would find it irritating to have to spend that much time making and eating food; sometimes I resent having to stop to prepare and eat food as it is and wish there was just a pill. It's a far healthier way to live, what he does, bu I haven't been motivated enough to follow his example. As a result, at 73 he is FAR healthier than I am (also because he does his exercises every morning and either runs or bikes). I'm a hedonist; I do what feels good, and obviously that's not healthy! Stick to it, kiddo, your metabolism no doubt WILL change over time, and you'll be healthier longer. (Easy for me to say, I know, but I also know it's true, even if I can't motivate myself to DO it!)

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:32 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Actually, my personal opinion is supported. I know, because I lived it.

Doesn't get more real than that.

While I agree that people DO have a choice in what they eat, if your experience is that people are peer pressured into becoming overweight, then your experience is very different from my experience.

Not my experience at all, actually. Quite the opposite. I guess my point is that it's easier for some to fall in line with accepted norms, than to step out on their own.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 8:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Ah, Magons, thanx--everything you wrote is valid, and you gave me Jamie Oliver's name back. He was the one trying to deal with that obese family with the diabetic son. Apparently he's doing work over here now, too, and I've caught some of his stuff--like pouring all the ingredients into a big tarp so kids can see what actually goes in. I admire him and wish him all the luck in the world, but after what I saw with that one family, I hope he doesn't get too discouraged by us Yanks!
Quote:
what we see now is generational behaviour, which is hard to crack.

The Brits behaviour was also hard to change. Behaviour change is just hard, but you have to admire his enthusiasm.

Quote:
Because of high cholesterol and the resulting arteriosclerosis, Jim started making his own meals years ago. I gag at them, sometimes I call them "bean soup" and being a vegaphobic, I couldn't eat them, but after a couple of years we found that there were things he literally could NOT eat anymore. I'd make a dish I thought was fine, he'd try to eat it and had to give up fairly quickly, it was just what he called "too rich" for him. So obviously there's a metabolic change and it takes time; put that against the ease of fast foods, advertising, finances and other factors, and I think weaning our nation off it's epidemic obesity is damned hard.

A major issue is the training of taste buds to accept healthy food and to like it. Kids tastebuds are ruined early if they are exposed to a diet of sugary, fatty foods it becomes hard to change them into liking healthy foods. Another interesting piece of reality tv was a british made program called 'Eatoholics' where they'd find these very freaky people who'd would only eat white bread and chips, or some really unhealthy limited diet. They send a team of people in - dieticians, doctors, psychologists - to try and change the behaviour. Some of these people had never tried fresh fruit or veg in their lives. They would gag when they tried to eat something like a strawberry, what most of us would find delicious. They all had really underdeveloped palates and in particular complained about the textures of food they were unfamiliar with and sometimes literally could not swallow them. If you think about most junk food, it is quite soft. McDOnalds is almost texture free, it's like eating sponge. It took quite a lot to get them to develop their diets to incorporate healthy options and sometimes it didn't work, even though all of them had poor health predictions for the future (they were usually quite young). All of them seem to have a similar experience in that they had been fussy eaters as a child and their parents had given in for the sake of peace, but sometimes there were more complex psychological reasons.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:52 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I guess my point is that it's easier for some to fall in line with accepted norms, than to step out on their own.

Oh please, you're the poster boy for the lock-step.

But your point is actually spot on.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:07 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... the group is going out for pizza, for example, one of them has to be pretty self-assured to order a salad, or not go at all."

But a pizza here or there isn't going to wreck your overall nutrition. What counts is what you do day to day. For example, school lunches are notoriously bad nutrition, as are soda, snack and candy machines at school. Add to that a home environment of steady fast food, and is it no wonder that kids gain weight.

Among whites, peer pressure is to be thin - and girls will go to extreme lengths - even take up smoking, or purge, or stave - to meet peer pressure.

Among poor African Americans and Latinos, not so much. What we see is NOT that kids succumb to peer pressure to be heavy, it's that they don't struggle so hard against an environment that trends them that way. Between lack of safe space to get out and be active, abysmal school food, and a fast food and pre-packaged food home diet, it's no wonder that kids get heavy. It's not group think, it's an environment.

While Wall St. is going through the roof, Main St. is paying all the bills.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:18 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

But a pizza here or there isn't going to wreck your overall nutrition.

Pizza is totally healthsome food, BTW. As long as the ingredients are good, and you add veggies to it.
I think it's a time factor as well. Poor peeps just wanna eat & go to bed, not spend 1&1/2 hours cooking then washing endless dishes & going to bed late to get up early for their minimum wage job.

As a student in college my diet was mainly Kraft mac & cheese.
Fast, easy, filling.
Not very healthy though. No protein. No roughage. Dudes with a slower metabolism than mine got chunky.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 12:38 PM

Speaking of, I made a vegan macaroni and no-cheese on Sunday that wasn't too bad. Not sure what the calorie content on the sauce was though.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter: It seems however, that you prefer to point the finger of blame at your favourite target groups, poor disenfranchised racial minorities.

You see target groups, and 'minorities'.

I just see - people.

Ah you bring tears to my eyes. I can hear the violins.

However, it seems to me that you lack a little honesty about your own motivations. i've seen you post numerous posts specifying a particular ethnic or religious group in a negative manner. You don't come across as seeing them as 'just people', you appear to be saying some groups are more prone to violent behaviours, don't take responsibility for their actions etc etc. You have said that Islam is a religion of violence. You are the one who uses blaming language. So you don't see them as 'just people' at all. Or at least that is not what your posts convey. I'll remember to point this out to you next time you do it, so for gods sake try a little reflection or thought before you post your one liners that sound quite mindless and meaningless.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 1:28 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Ah you bring tears to my eyes. I can hear the violins.

However, it seems to me that you lack a little honesty about your own motivations. i've seen you post numerous posts specifying a particular ethnic or religious group in a negative manner. You don't come across as seeing them as 'just people', you appear to be saying some groups are more prone to violent behaviours, don't take responsibility for their actions etc etc. You have said that Islam is a religion of violence. You are the one who uses blaming language. So you don't see them as 'just people' at all. Or at least that is not what your posts convey. I'll remember to point this out to you next time you do it, so for gods sake try a little reflection or thought before you post your one liners that sound quite mindless and meaningless.

It's my honesty which you can't seem capable of dealing with, that's your problem. Everyone starts out as 'folk', and then gets dumbed down by cultural / religious " group thought".

Some groups ARE more prone to violent behavior, and you act is if me saying it is some how unfair, or makes it untrue. Just look at the results, of what people have done, in the NAME of Islam, for example. It ain't pretty.

Reflection is fine, but you might want to open your eyes to the NOW, every once in a while.

And I'm sorry that quotes from Firefly / Serenity fly right over your head. I'm a fan of both, so sorry if that bothers you.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 3:52 AM

Culture and/or religion are part of what makes folk FOLK. Take that away, and I'm not sure you have folk anymore.

Take "being an American" away from AURaptor, and what is left?

Perhaps saying that all people are just folk necessarily implies that one has to be able to tolerate the differences between folk, whatever they might be.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Ah you bring tears to my eyes. I can hear the violins.

However, it seems to me that you lack a little honesty about your own motivations. i've seen you post numerous posts specifying a particular ethnic or religious group in a negative manner. You don't come across as seeing them as 'just people', you appear to be saying some groups are more prone to violent behaviours, don't take responsibility for their actions etc etc. You have said that Islam is a religion of violence. You are the one who uses blaming language. So you don't see them as 'just people' at all. Or at least that is not what your posts convey. I'll remember to point this out to you next time you do it, so for gods sake try a little reflection or thought before you post your one liners that sound quite mindless and meaningless.

It's my honesty which you can't seem capable of dealing with, that's your problem. Everyone starts out as 'folk', and then gets dumbed down by cultural / religious " group thought".

Some groups ARE more prone to violent behavior, and you act is if me saying it is some how unfair, or makes it untrue. Just look at the results, of what people have done, in the NAME of Islam, for example. It ain't pretty.

Reflection is fine, but you might want to open your eyes to the NOW, every once in a while.

And I'm sorry that quotes from Firefly / Serenity fly right over your head. I'm a fan of both, so sorry if that bothers you.

Yeah, QED. It's hard to argue with someone who backflips more than a gymnist. Which one is it - are we all just individuals who are entirely responsible for our own actions or are we part of some larger culture than may influence our behaviour? Do you just see folk or do you define folk by their religion/class/ethnicity? At least be consistent because you make a statement and contradict it several posts later.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Culture and/or religion are part of what makes folk FOLK. Take that away, and I'm not sure you have folk anymore.

Take "being an American" away from AURaptor, and what is left?

Perhaps saying that all people are just folk necessarily implies that one has to be able to tolerate the differences between folk, whatever they might be.

[sarcasm]OH well that would be RACIST, Byte, admitting that culture and religion can define who people are. [/sarcasm]

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:41 AM

I am an imperfect being.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 9:39 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Yeah, QED. It's hard to argue with someone who backflips more than a gymnist. Which one is it - are we all just individuals who are entirely responsible for our own actions or are we part of some larger culture than may influence our behaviour? Do you just see folk or do you define folk by their religion/class/ethnicity? At least be consistent because you make a statement and contradict it several posts later.

I am consistent, you're just not paying attention.

We all start out pretty much the same, but then get programmed by all sorts of group think.

Try and keep up, k ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 10:50 AM

I don't think that's what that quote meant. I mean, in context it was about Mal accepting that the Alliance guys in Bushwhacked have to do their jobs and saying that he's no longer an Independent.

The group think doesn't change them from being just folk. So a different culture than ours doesn't stop being "just folk" because of their culture.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 10:55 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I don't think that's what that quote meant. I mean, in context it was about Mal accepting that the Alliance guys in Bushwhacked have to do their jobs and saying that he's no longer an Independent.

The group think doesn't change them from being just folk. So a different culture than ours doesn't stop being "just folk" because of their culture.

"War's long done,...We're all just folk now." -

Mal Reynolds ( SERENITY 2005 )

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 11:04 AM

...I really need to rewatch if I'm messing up what quotes come from where.

Though the context about it being a comment to a representative of the Alliance about their job and him no longer being an Independent seems to be correct still.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 11:20 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
...I really need to rewatch if I'm messing up what quotes come from where.

Though the context about it being a comment to a representative of the Alliance about their job and him no longer being an Independent seems to be correct still.

They were actually trying to frame the crew of Serenity for the slaughter of the settlers, if you recall. By bringing up Mal's war record, and as a volunteer for the Independents, Harken was insinuating that Mal , out of desire for vengeance against the Alliance, was the one behind this attack.

But I digress. Yes, nothing wrong with going back and watching Firefly / Serenity over , again and again.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 11:31 AM

Well, not frame exactly, because Harken didn't believe in Reavers until he got up close and personal with one that had been turned.

Harken actually did think of Mal as guilty, he was prejudiced. Mal then proceeds to show a surprising lack of prejudice towards Harken, and even saves the man's life. Very inclusive of him, considering everything the Alliance did to him.

Mal complains about the Alliance for good reason when they can't hear him, but at the same time it doesn't stop him from thinking of them as people and trying to do right by them (even when they haven't exactly returned the favour). That's kind of why he's a hero.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 11:48 AM

America loves a winner!

( love how this thread has gone... )

Mal's also thinking of his crew, and what it'd mean if the Alliance frames them for what the Reavers have done.

And understandable that Harken is dismissive of the Reaver story. Reavers don't leave many survivors, if they can help it. And the Alliance, well, they had a secret to keep, so the 'story' of Reavers was likely dismissed as a cover, for other nefarious activity.

At least, that's what Harken likely thought.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 12:04 PM

Maybe, but it's also suggested that this is Harken's first tour out on the Rim, and that he may actually be unaware of Reavers beyond the "urban legends" (so to speak) that people tell.

The shooting script describes Harken being attacked by the Reaver as a "trial by fire" for him, and there's also something in there about an initiation, or ritual.

What I took away from the episode was that Harken learned that Reavers really do exist. He seemed to be unaware of the cover-up in regards to Reavers, because if he was, he would have framed Mal and co rather than have it get out that Reavers might be real. Instead, he lets them go, having decided that Mal and co are innocent and not thinking of any cover up at all.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 2:11 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I suspect that when Joss made Bushwhacked, he hadn't decided to do the Miranda-is-where-the-Reavers-came-from thing yet. Because the guy in the ship became a Reaver without any PAX. People don't seem to like the idea that Joss was figuring it out as he went, but that's normal for someone who is creating a story/show to do some of.

Niki, do you think peanut butter M and Ms can count as protein? Because that's what I did this week for breakfast. :P I hate being hungry all the time, I can't focus. I'll keep trying for protein in the morning but its so hard, I don't have a lot of time and I just don't like eating breakfast unless its Sat. and my dad and I go out to eat it or he makes organic eggs and stuff, mmmmmmmmmm.

When I was a little girl I was a lot like the people on those shows with Freaky Eaters (that's the American version of what Magon's mentioned.) Now I'm not like that though, I like a lot of things, though there are still some things I don't like. But not many. I'm thankful I grew out of being picky. It wasn't anything my parents did either, it was just me growing up and my tastebuds changing. My little nephew is picky and he's already starting to grow out of it, he's 8 and he eats more things as he gets older. My stepgrandma is still really picky, she's not bad enough to be on one of those shows, but she is very picky for an adult. She's pretty healthy though which is good.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 3:16 PM

Heh, I had the opposite thing, I'd eat anything as a kid, and I still kinda eat a lot of stuff that most people wouldn't exactly consider "food."

Though again, if I was served the fatty and greasy stuff I wouldn't eat much of it.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I am consistent, you're just not paying attention.

We all start out pretty much the same, but then get programmed by all sorts of group think.

Try and keep up, k ?

You're fooling yourself matey. Didn't you say.....

Quote:
Parents have, for a large part, control over what their children watch and eat. This idea that we're all brainless programable robots, falling victim to the whims of some heartless, faceless ad agency's dark, insidious intentions, is comical rubbish.

So we are programmable or we are not programmable? We are individuals who are fully responsible for ourselves or we are subjected to group think as we grow up?

BTW Are you 13?

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:

When I was a little girl I was a lot like the people on those shows with Freaky Eaters (that's the American version of what Magon's mentioned.) Now I'm not like that though, I like a lot of things, though there are still some things I don't like. But not many. I'm thankful I grew out of being picky. It wasn't anything my parents did either, it was just me growing up and my tastebuds changing. My little nephew is picky and he's already starting to grow out of it, he's 8 and he eats more things as he gets older. My stepgrandma is still really picky, she's not bad enough to be on one of those shows, but she is very picky for an adult. She's pretty healthy though which is good.

I was a picky eater as well and I grew out of it. I think that a lot of those people were really infantile, which is why they still ate like babies.

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Wednesday, October 19, 2011 11:31 PM