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I would love to see Raptor have to deal with Oakland PD. His opinion of "law and order" would be mightily disappointed.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
A victory for The Rappenfuhrer's Gestapo, too: they broke up the camp in Atlanta last night.

It would seem like, if a city was REALLY concerned abut health and sanitation issues, it would negotiate a way to provide services: " Look, folks, we gotta clean the toilets and dump the trash. Can we come thru at 10:00 AM to do that? Noon? 7:00 PM?" " Should we provide Porta-Potties and service them?" That's how public crowd situations like marathons are handled.

If a city was really concerned about crime and violence, they could station cops in the parks to HELP, not just to spy and oppress. The cities are already bitching about the over-time costs for cops and security, why not spend some of that O T money on protecting the protesters and PREVENTING crimes against them?

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OPD Excessive Force Against Iraqi War Protestors and Innocent Bystanders

On April 7, 2003, demonstrators held a non-violent protest against the Iraq War at the Port of Oakland. Oakland police responded and dispersed the demonstrators by using so-called less than lethal firearms, running over demonstrators with motorcycles, and using other forms of excessive force. The OPD violence was not limited to the demonstrators as numerous longshoremen were either hit by gunfire or arrested. The OPD response was the most violent response to any protest against the Iraq war held in the United States.

Jim Chanin was an attorney on the legal team that filed a lawsuit against the City of Oakland. The case eventually settled for more than $2,000,000. The City of Oakland also agreed to a consent decree that dramatically changed the way the Oakland Police Department will respond to crowd control situations involving both political demonstrations and other gatherings.

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
What the police are doing now is just going to drum up more support for the protesters.

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The City of Oakland also agreed to a consent decree that dramatically changed the way the Oakland Police Department will respond to crowd control situations involving both political demonstrations and other gatherings.

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Originally posted by pizmobeach:

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
What the police are doing now is just going to drum up more support for the protesters.

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Exactly - I don't get what the local govs are thinking (clearly not much), they're making it worse for themselves which is great for OWS. Thanks you!

I saw Chris Hedges (journalist) talk about the OWS movement on C-Rose the other night. He's a voice worth paying attention to imho.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
[B
Also, where are the people who so love to tell the rest of us that the police are better than a gun in defense of self?

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(Atlanta Mayor)...
Reed told CNN affiliate WSB that concerns were increased when a man in the park was seen with an assault rifle. "We could not determine whether the weapon was loaded and could not get additional information on the weapon," he said.

Authorities ordered people to leave the park around midnight Tuesday, WSB said, going from tent to tent with flashlights.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:I already said that this was heavy-handed. But Im curious... you, and folks like you, continue to tell us all that the government (especially a centralized unConstitutional government)is SUCH a GOOD thing.

Yet, now... its just "fuck the police". (While not a bad statement, or ideology... what I see when I hear libs say that is nothing more than "fuck you daddy!")

How you can eat when you obviously should be choking on your hypocrisy is beyond me.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
As ever, I advise anyone involved with the movement to look after themselves, and also know how to spot anyone dressed like a protester but wearing nicely polished beat shoes.

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I have been repeating over and over again that he who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honour by non-violently facing death may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden. He has no business to be the head of a family. He must either hide himself, or must rest content to live for ever in helplessness and be prepared to crawl like a worm at the bidding of a bully.

The strength to kill is not essential for self-defence; one ought to have the strength to die. When a man is fully ready to die, he will not even desire to offer violence. Indeed, I may put it down as a self-evident proposition that the desire to kill is in inverse proportion to the desire to die. And history is replete with instances of men who, by dying with courage and compassion on their lips, converted the hearts of their violent opponents.

Nonviolence cannot be taught to a person who fears to die and has no power of resistance. A helpless mouse is not nonviolent because he is always eaten by pussy. He would gladly eat the murderess if he could, but he ever tries to flee from her. We do not call him a coward, because he is made by nature to behave no better than he does.

But a man who, when faced by danger, behaves like a mouse, is rightly called a coward. He harbors violence and hatred in his heart and would kill his enemy if he could without hurting himself. He is a stranger to nonviolence. All sermonizing on it will be lost on him. Bravery is foreign to his nature. Before he can understand nonviolence, he has to be taught to stand his ground and even suffer death, in the attempt to defend himself against the aggressor who bids fair to overwhelm him. To do otherwise would be to confirm his cowardice and take him further away from nonviolence.

Whilst I may not actually help anyone to retaliate, I must not let a coward seek shelter behind nonviolence so-called. Not knowing the stuff of which nonviolence is made, many have honestly believed that running away from danger every time was a virtue compared to offering resistance, especially when it was fraught with danger to one's life. As a teacher of nonviolence I must, so far as it is possible for me, guard against such an unmanly belief.

Self-defence....is the only honourable course where there is unreadiness for self-immolation.

Though violence is not lawful, when it is offered in self-defence or for the defence of the defenceless, it is an act of bravery far better than cowardly submission. The latter befits neither man nor woman. Under violence, there are many stages and varieties of bravery. Every man must judge this for himself. No other person can or has the right.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. I'm surprised we haven't heard AURaptor commenting on that yet, my understanding was he lives in Atlanta.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Better late than never, I suppose. No such fireworks or ruckus here in ATL as there was in Oakland. The Occutards got off lucky, only having to post $100 bail to get out of day jail.

Of course, the door is now left open for TEA party rallies to freely hold their events , just as the Occutards did. If the city tries to make them fill out any permits, or pay any fees , then there's promises of lawsuits being filed. That, I find hi-larious. The sympathetic city govt got it wrong the first time, by allowing this nonsense to go on for so long, now they're going to have to reap what they sow.

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Lawsuits based on what? You said yourself that people had been arrested. So I guess if the Tea Party want to also use civil disobedience they will also get arrested.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
Did you guys see the latest? A 24 year old Iraq vet was hospitalized after getting hit in the head by a gas canister in Oakland. Then a cop deliberately threw another canister at the people trying help him. From not more than 10 feet away. While standing behind a barricade, wearing full armor. Yeah, that's a real man.

If this doesn't make you angry, you're not alive.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. I'm surprised we haven't heard AURaptor commenting on that yet, my understanding was he lives in Atlanta.

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Better late than never, I suppose. No such fireworks or ruckus here in ATL as there was in Oakland. The Occutards got off lucky, only having to post $100 bail to get out of day jail.

Of course, the door is now left open for TEA party rallies to freely hold their events , just as the Occutards did. If the city tries to make them fill out any permits, or pay any fees , then there's promises of lawsuits being filed. That, I find hi-larious. The sympathetic city govt got it wrong the first time, by allowing this nonsense to go on for so long, now they're going to have to reap what they sow.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Shouldn't you be handing out pamphlets, walking your dogs, or something else as important?

"Nonetheless, I'm SURE those horrible people should be gassed, flash-banged, shot with rubber bullets and maced for daring to do what they did, yes siree!"

Um... YOU said that... not me.

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Jackals: "Finally, we have a strong leader ready to put those malcontents in their places! Where do I sign up?"
Jackals are like Lemmings and Snakes: they eagerly collaborate with the villain because they think his campaign of terror and genocide are just causes. Whether it's out of hate, fanaticism, or ignorance, they prefer the villain's despotism to a more benevolent regime. Usually, they're harmless once the villain is dethroned: their prejudice comes out only when the bad guys are in power.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

And you'll of course be right there to call them all a bunch of lazy hippie scum.

Right?

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Originally posted by SignyM:
WULF-how does supporting the government gassing, kettling, macing and beating people fit into your idea of the government being the servant of "the people"?

Am I missing something?

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Alameda County Sheriff's deputies used shotguns to fire "00" buckshot at people sitting on the roof at the Telegraph Repertory Cinema, fatally wounding student James Rector and permanently blinding carpenter Alan Blanchard. The University of California Police Department (UCPD) claims Rector threw steel rebar down onto the police, however according to Time Magazine, Rector was a bystander, not a protester.[18] As the protesters retreated, the Alameda County Sheriff's deputies pursued them several blocks down Telegraph Avenue as far as Willard Junior High School at Derby Street, firing tear gas canisters and "00" buckshot into their backs as they fled.

(....)

The authorities initially claimed that only birdshot had been used as shotgun ammunition. When physicians provided "00" pellets removed from the wounded as evidence that buckshot had been used, Sheriff Frank Madigan of Alameda County justified the use of shotguns loaded with lethal buckshot by stating "... the choice was essentially this: to use shotguns — because we didn't have the available manpower — or retreat and abandon the City of Berkeley to the mob." Sheriff Madigan did admit, however, that some of his deputies (many of whom were Vietnam War veterans) had been overly aggressive in their pursuit of the protesters, "as though they were Viet Cong."

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
A victory for The Rappenfuhrer's Gestapo, too: they broke up the camp in Atlanta last night.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
It's action dependent, moron. They do things heroic - they're called heroes. They behave like the Gestapo, they get called as such. It's a simple concept, which of course flies over your head.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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