OccupyOakland pays the price by Niki2

America loves a winner!

Quote:
... that's the only conceivable explanation I can come up with.

Which really doesn't say much about you then, now does it ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:35 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
It's action dependent, moron. They do things heroic - they're called heroes. They behave like the Gestapo, they get called as such. It's a simple concept, which of course flies over your head.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

Ha ha... what's over YOUR head is that these officers in uniform are THE SAME GUYS! The ones Biden is praising and the ones you're calling 'Gestapo'.

NO, they're not the same guys. The heroes were in NYC, and are DEAD, a lot of 'em. Unless they moved to Atlanta as zombies, they aren't the same guys. And I've never seen it documented that a bunch of cops left NYC after 9/11 and moved to Atlanta as living human people.
The Atlanta PD are the folks I referred to as Rappenfuhrer's Gestapo.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 1:41 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I forgot; it's Raptor. He knows nothing, he sees nothing...(how many are old enough to know where that comes from?)

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

I'm old enough to remember who John Banner was.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:20 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I don't think it's that simple for the reasons you mentioned - they practically own the system.

And yet you would put faith in that system to protect you ?
From them ?

Please.

-F

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:26 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I share a lack of conviction that violence is the appropriate response here.

However, I am also bereft of any other suggestion. This may leave my reticence to seem a weak and pathetic thing. But I can envision the carnage and spin that violence would evoke, and it is not a desirable outcome to my mind.

Such a frame of mind doubtless makes me a poor hero for the cause of freedom.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:54 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
I don't think it's that simple for the reasons you mentioned - they practically own the system.

And yet you would put faith in that system to protect you ?
From them ?

Please.

-F

I can't think of any system I have complete faith in, so no. But better chances than shooting one of "them."

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh I am not convinced violence is any kind of effective answer either - it may come to that, it may not...

What I am concerned about is how folks refuse to break out of the bounds of an obviously rigged game, and offer no "third option", in essence blinding themselves to even the POSSIBILITY of other means and ways - chosing instead a binary yes/no choice they've not the will to actually choose, and thus offering only one answer, stand around and get their ass kicked till they can no longer take it...
And back down, further confirming the message that violence and the threat of it will cow them every time.

I got more to say, especially about why that is, but that deserves it's own thread.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:40 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

What a rutting mess. My Jennifer has been seeing lots of footage of it since she's living in Stockton, not too far away, she says its horrid and I know it is. I'm so sorry all that stuff happened down there. I don't think people understand that everything we do effects others, sometimes forever and irrevokably. Oakland is a mess anyways, but the police are making it a worse one.

So on the local front for me, Jennifer's mom went down to check things out at the park downtown where the Occupy protestors are still staying, mud hole, who's going to pay to fix it? Yeah. Anyways most of the people staying there at this point, three weeks in, are homeless, staying there because for once they can get away with it, and aren't associated with Occupy, she talked to many people down there because she was curious. Apparently there was a meth related shooting down there later that night and I'm glad she didn't get mixed up in that.

On the news tonight they said the Occupy people are leaving the trashed park and relocating to a new park in a different part of town, oh great, they're going to ruin another park? I think that this camping thing is stupid. For the first few days it seemed a bit cool, I mean I love camping and all, but now its dumb and its causing people to not sympathize with them. If they were smarter they'd do what Niki's Occupy group is doing, have a very prominant presence protesting but not have an encampment.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:57 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:

On the news tonight they said the Occupy people are leaving the trashed park and relocating to a new park in a different part of town, oh great, they're going to ruin another park? I think that this camping thing is stupid. For the first few days it seemed a bit cool, I mean I love camping and all, but now its dumb and its causing people to not sympathize with them. If they were smarter they'd do what Niki's Occupy group is doing, have a very prominant presence protesting but not have an encampment.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Dunno if this translates at all to what's happening here in the States, but over in London...

The thermal images that prove 90% of tents in the Occupy camp in London are left EMPTY overnight

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053463/Occupy-London-90-tents
-St-Pauls-protest-camp-left-overnight.html#ixzz1c2birXqV

Several accompanying images, and likely there'll be out of hand dismissals. Kill the messenger seems to be the SOP around here. The protesters already are issuing denials, of course.

Leaving trash all over, crapping on police cars, disrupting residents and businesses, taxing the local police and other city services... just not seeing a whole lotta upside to all this nonsense. But hey, keep it up. They're really doin' a bang up job.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:50 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
A victory for The Rappenfuhrer's Gestapo, too: they broke up the camp in Atlanta last night.

So, when the NYC cops are killed in the 9/11 attacks, they're heroes. When VP Biden wants to hire thousands of cops, albeit for 1 year or so, to help stop rapes and murders, by golly, they're GREAT defenders of the community.

But when they're called to rid public property of those who are breaking the law, and refuse to leave, they're suddenly 'Rappenfuhrer's Gestapo' ??

What law are they breaking?

Be specific.

I'll wait.

BTW, if we're to follow your example, the cops who died on 9/11 aren't heroes at all, but victims of their own poor personal choices who are owed nothing at all by the American people. That actually has been your argument, so stop with all the phony indignation and pretending that you care about them all of a sudden.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 6:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The Iraq vet wasn't shot in the head, he caught a tear-gas canister on her head. The cop threw a flash grenade at the people trying to help him.

No, he really was shot in the head with a tear gas canister. They're fired like grenades. When you fire one at someone's head, it can fracture the person's skull and potentially kill them, as illustrated by the Oakland police firing the canister at Scott Olsen's head, nearly killing him.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 7:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I share a lack of conviction that violence is the appropriate response here.

However, I am also bereft of any other suggestion. This may leave my reticence to seem a weak and pathetic thing. But I can envision the carnage and spin that violence would evoke, and it is not a desirable outcome to my mind.

Such a frame of mind doubtless makes me a poor hero for the cause of freedom.

--Anthony

It's not that difficult to envision. Just difficult to enact. Gandhi said it best:

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

It really is that simple.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:51 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

The park campers here in my city technically are breaking the law by sleeping in the parks in tents, the rules are that no one is supposed to be in the parks after midnight. Whether I like the law or not isn't the point, whether its a good law or not isn't the point, they are technically breaking the law and the city commissioner says that they aren't allowed to camp in any other parks and will be told to leave. Our mayor sympathized with them initially and let them break the rules in the one park downtown, but he's on vacation (I'm afraid to know what he's doing after a recent article came out about that), so Commissioner Fritz is in charge and what she says goes while he's gone, so we'll see what happens.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, October 28, 2011 4:51 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oooo, Impressive NewOld...not only the character, but the actor! I stand in awe...and in sympathy for you, like me, getting old ;i)

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, October 28, 2011 5:40 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ha ha... what's over YOUR head is that these officers in uniform are THE SAME GUYS!

LOL!

Really?

The SAME GUYS - in a different city, nearly a decade later????

Wow, You are such an astounding moron. You just NEVER stop striving for new level of stupid, do you? Jesus.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 28, 2011 5:58 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
the rules are

That is exactly the POINT, Riona...it's called civil disobedience, remember? They/we are PROTESTING the rules, protesting the system that has robbed us of so much with nobody held accountable.

I'd like to know what you would suggest as an alternative. What they're doing is an American tradition; we used to call it "sit-ins", but this is about much bigger issues, so there's no better place they can go to "sit" in. Of COURSE it's a mess; it's impossible to have that many people in one place for any length of time and have it not be. In places like Oakland, you can expect bad things, that's just the way it is. The only other alternative is to have a sweet little tea party where everyone can come and party for a couple of hours (and vent all the ugliness inside them with those who think like them), then go home to their warm beds, nodding to one another and saying 'Yup, we shore showed them!' That got taken over by the monied powers who used them to get people elected to do THEIR work, not the work of the people.

So what would you suggest? They're trying to bring attention to what's going wrong today, and there's a LOT going wrong. Protesting, demonstrating are age-old American traditions. They're trying a different way--not a new one, as it's been done before, but not in this volume, not all over the country. People are familiar with marches, and they only last a few hours at most, then they're gone and people stop paying attention.

Change is MESSY. I'm amazed at the courage of these people and how they're willing to endure the cold, discomfort, and of course the brutality, they have. Would that we were all so willing to sacrifice to try and bring about change. [snark]Sorry the mess offends you.[/snark]That's just how I feel.

By the way, over at Justin Herman Plaza, where OccupySanFrancisco set up, the police eventually removed them, peacefully for the most part, then took all the tents, etc., to the police station, where people could go to retrieve it. In contrast, Oakland PD just trashed everything, deliberately, making a huge mess out of the place, so of COURSE it looks like it does. That wasn't the protester's choice.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, October 28, 2011 6:04 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah, Story...what's amusing is that OccupyWallStreet hasn't had anything LIKE the kind of violence Oakland has. And as I told Riona, in SF the police evicted them, then took all their stuff to the police department where people could pick it up, as opposed to Oakland where they DELIBERATELY trashed everything, then left it there.

They're definitely NOT the same guys; each city has different rules, each police force attracts the kind of officers that fit within their mentality, and even if OaklandPD weren't the way they are, almost all cities have had reductions in their police force, so those left to do the job have GOT to be resentful, frustrated and damned tired!

Also, on 9/11 the loss of life among police and firefighters has been documented over and over again as being caused by the stupidity of the government in not having decent communications equipment, etc. If they HAD, not nearly as many would have died. The police can't be held responsible for everything; in Oakland, they deal with a ton of bad stuff every day; the guy in charge is an INTERIM chief who will probably disappear quickly now; and Oakland PD attracts the kind of cops that Marin, SF, and other places DON'T--i.e., bullies who like power. It's not simple black and white, as with everything else.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, October 28, 2011 6:32 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

“Sorry the mess offends you.”

Hello,

This is, of course, an attitude that won’t win any friends. Unfortunately, a mob has no organized structure, and so no one is assigned the duty of managing cleanup, environmental services, and public relations. As such, public support shall inevitably wither in the wake of various untended issues. The cities/counties being occupied could easily provide such services as to keep the occupied territories clean and healthy and habitable, but over time their incentive to do this evaporates. One does not exert oneself in support of unwanted guests, and the disobedience portion of civil disobedience inevitably places the civil government in opposition to those being disobedient.

You may mock the Tea Party for their message, but I would not mock them for their effectiveness. Their polite tea parties followed by warm houses and warm beds do indeed invoke change. It is simply not a change I agree with.

The Occupy movement has succeeded only in demonstrating the amorphous discontent of the population with the status quo. Their unfocused message of discontent has captured the public imagination, but it will prove incapable of holding it if no more specific idea surfaces. Hopefully, the movement will be followed by something more organized that delivers a coherent, focused message about what changes are desired. Sadly, the moment it becomes organized it will also have leaders and members with interests that can be paid, swayed, and overlaid.

It isn’t the Occupy movement itself, but what follows it, which will be important. Otherwise, the short-lived march will indeed prove more important than the encamping mob. A march has a carefully outlined message that will be remembered, an underlying organization with a set of goals, and a continuing effort built on a message that lives long after the feet on the floor have passed by. The Occupiers will need to make themselves more than “Those unhappy people who trashed the park last year.”

Right now, as the unfeeling hand of government authority swats them down… right now is the time to create that cogent message.

And every moment after will be a war to maintain that ideal in the face of corrupting temptation.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Friday, October 28, 2011 8:21 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I agree with virtually everything you wrote, Anthony, and it IS a conundrum. This won't go anywhere unless it starts going SOMEWHERE.

I clearly labeled that a snark, so obviously it wasn't 100% of what I feel. It was more an expression of my own frustration. I do have a problem with the disorganization, and to some degree with the inability to do this without the mess. But I maintain that change is messy; it doesn't always happen the way we want it to. I'm sure many of us wish our representatives were listening to us and doing THEIR job, the lack of which has pretty much caused this outpouring of frustration, but that didn't happen; in fact the OPPOSITE happened because of the Tea Party influence, and if the Republicans get their way, it will happen even MORE.

So I ask again; what is a viable suggestion to replace the 'occupy' idea? Marches don't change things; we knew when they ended 'Nam that it wasn't because of our marching, all that did was illustrate the disagreement of the people with the war. We were never fooled into thinking we actually changed anything. So how do we achieve change in a better way? I know of none besides FORCING people to come eye-to-eye with the problems, which is what's being done. In that respect I agree with them. But I do wish there were another way, or that a coherent message would appear which would help coalesce the approval of the majority of Americans, who have already shown that they AGREE with a lot of what OccupyWallStreet is saying.

I don't want to see this fail, and unless some kind of organization and message appears, it probably will. I just don't know how else to bring it to people's attention.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, October 28, 2011 8:38 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

“we knew when they ended 'Nam that it wasn't because of our marching, all that did was illustrate the disagreement of the people with the war.”

Hello,

There is a big temptation in life to find the reason for something. But I find in life there is often no singular reason for something. A thing can happen for many reasons, big and small. Our search for the reason of things sometimes brings to mind an avalanche of stones, with each pebble looking for the reason for the avalanche as they fall and bustle and bounce into their neighboring stones.

Of course the marches ended ‘Nam. And so did a burning man. And a disastrous offensive. And a television news report. And a terrible atrocity. And a thousand body bags. And political expediency. And, and, and. If you think you didn’t accomplish anything, then you are the stone wondering why the avalanche happens even as you are part of the avalanche yourself.

But.

I think you need to find some charming lady or gent who abhors publicity and power, and elevate them kicking and screaming into the leadership. And if they ever get to like it too much, replace them.

This is easier said than done.

For who will everyone follow, when there is one problem and a thousand attitudes about what to do?

How and why did Martin Luther King, Jr. become the voice for a generation? Surely his view of things was not the solitary one… but it became a unifying one. I don’t have the answer. But I think if you know someone in this movement who is a lightning rod of potential, then you had better push them into the uncomfortable place that their gifts have prepared for them. You may even be such a person yourself.

And then watch them like a hawk, for corruption comes as surely in this world as it does in fantasy realms where Hobbits wear golden rings.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Friday, October 28, 2011 8:54 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Again I agree completely. I guess I wasn't clear; we knew we CONTRIBUTED to the end of the war, but we didn't think we had that big a part.

Unfortunately, here we are a small group, with little central cohesion, and we're in a position where we can't demand anything of our representatives, because they're ALREADY on our side. It's going to be up to OccupyWallStreet themselves to find someone to give them, and us, a central voice. Obviously I'm too far away to have any input on that. I can only hope it comes to pass--tho' I'm pretty sure it won't be someone brought kicking and screaming into it, it doesn't usually work that way. Yeah, it would be absolutely terrifying, but if I knew how to, I'd at least be ONE of the voices. But a) I AM an aging hippie (distrust, distrust), b) things can be found in my life/past that wouldn't be good for the cause (I smoke dopem I'm bisexual and I'm bipolar, just three examples), and I'm on disability (distrust, distrust). But I sure wish I knew someone who COULD, and I'd help as best I could.

Small cog, big wheel. All I know to do is do my part with what talents I have, urge better organization and do what I can to help with that--and hope something comes of all this.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 9:15 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ha ha... what's over YOUR head is that these officers in uniform are THE SAME GUYS!

LOL!

Really?

The SAME GUYS - in a different city, nearly a decade later????

Wow, You are such an astounding moron. You just NEVER stop striving for new level of stupid, do you? Jesus.

Never been or known a cop, huh?

I'm guessing not.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 28, 2011 11:45 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
All I know to do is do my part with what talents I have, urge better organization and do what I can to help with that--and hope something comes of all this.

An interesting editorial at cnn that says pretty much the same thing about leadership being needed.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/27/opinion/linsky-occupy-wall-street-leader
ship/index.html?hpt=us_mid

"It is relatively easy to get disempowered, angry, frustrated people together to rail against a wide range of enemies and scapegoats. It is quite another to effect change."

"Like it or not, the values and processes that have created the Occupy Wall Street phenomenon are inadequate and ill-suited to taking the next steps and creating real impact.
The democratic, inclusive, and consensus-driven norms that have guided OWS up to this point will not get it to the next level -- that is, if there is real interest in changing the current reality rather than just complaining about it and speaking out against it."

Even a tip of the hat to the Tea-Party:

"More recently -- and both sides hate this comparison -- in a remarkably short period of time, the tea party movement went from a rowdy group of people who felt disenfranchised in different ways to a nonviolent army with a sharply focused, clearly articulated agenda, and fierce commitment to infiltrate the system in order to change it. It has been amazingly successful, influencing elections and the political discourse and soon winning elections with candidates who were completely beholden to its agenda, whether they believed in it all or not. Whether you like it or not, the tea party has changed the system."

If all you do is bring these concerns up, that's something.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Friday, October 28, 2011 1:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

One does not exert oneself in support of unwanted guests, and the disobedience portion of civil disobedience inevitably places the civil government in opposition to those being disobedient.

You may mock the Tea Party for their message, but I would not mock them for their effectiveness. Their polite tea parties followed by warm houses and warm beds do indeed invoke change. It is simply not a change I agree with.

The Occupy movement has succeeded only in demonstrating the amorphous discontent of the population with the status quo. Their unfocused message of discontent has captured the public imagination, but it will prove incapable of holding it if no more specific idea surfaces.

I'm curious, though, Anthony; what exactly WAS the one, single, unified message of the Tea Party? What was the one single thing that united them, that they were universally for, or universally against?

People speak of the tea parties as if they were some sort of perfect political movement, but even within their ranks, there was disagreement and discontent with the messaging.

Does anyone remember the various myriad tea parties (for there has never been one unified Tea Party which has declared itself an actual POLITICAL PARTY) ever releasing a cohesive statement of their demands and goals?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, October 28, 2011 1:06 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I don’t have the answer. But I think if you know someone in this movement who is a lightning rod of potential, then you had better push them into the uncomfortable place that their gifts have prepared for them. You may even be such a person yourself.

And then watch them like a hawk, for corruption comes as surely in this world as it does in fantasy realms where Hobbits wear golden rings.

And this is why I have been staying the hell AWAY from OccupyDetroit - one of several reasons, although if I had to pick someone as the frontman it'd be Malek for sure, cause Gus is just way too heavy handed and still locked into a military mindset...

And me, I am stayin out of it for now, IF they get their shit together I'll back whomever leads, but put *ME* in the hotseat ?
You DO NOT WANNA GO THERE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_Robespierre

I don't WANT the fucking Ring of Power, I know all too well what it would cost.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 1:55 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"People speak of the tea parties as if they were some sort of perfect political movement, but even within their ranks, there was disagreement and discontent with the messaging."

Hello Mike,

Obviously not perfect, dash the thought. But equally obviously effective. During the infiltration and contamination of the movement by the GOP, there has been enough cross-contamination to see the Republican party shifting to even more conservative stances than it was comfortable with in recent memory.

Equally obviously, every group has elements which disagree and show discontent with the group's messaging. It is a frightening political advocate who has unwavering and total devotion to their party's ideal. Such people do exist, but I hope the majority deviate to some degree.

The Tea Party is in a continual state of evolution that could be broadly defined as 'More Right, More Conservative' but can't be specifically nailed down. There have been certain planks proposed and published, with the Tea Party Patriots and their Contract from America, which they ask politicians to sign in order to be endorsed.

1.Identify constitutionality of every new law
2.Reject emissions trading
3.Demand a balanced federal budget
4.Simplify the tax system
5.Audit federal government agencies for waste and constitutionality
6.Limit annual growth in federal spending
7.Repeal the healthcare legislation passed on March 23, 2010
8.Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy
9.Reduce Earmarks
10.Reduce Taxes

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Friday, October 28, 2011 3:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Never been or known a cop, huh?

Never been one, but known quite a few. They're peeps. Some really good, some really bad, the rest just earning a paycheck.
You are sickeningly black & white concerning this.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, October 29, 2011 4:23 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
You are sickeningly black & white concerning this.

Only "THIS"?!?!

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Monday, October 31, 2011 8:07 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Hi Niki, I should have spoken more carefully. I was talking about two different messes. The mess in my city regards the literal mess of the park being a mudhole. The mess in Oakland is a disaster/emotional mess because the police went in and were dreadfully cruel to the protesters and, thanks to video cameras, we all saw it and can stand up and say no more of that should happen like it did there. Oakland is a disaster in itself, but this was something that the whole of the country saw.

So I was talking about a literal mess and a figurative mess, one in my city and one in Oakland. I sorry I wasn't more clear.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 6:59 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ahh, I have no argument with that. I wish the occupy groups could get themselves together and work on keeping the area clean. No, cleanER. There's no way to have a lot of people and leave the area looking untouched, but I DO think they could do a better job. I understand the frustration of seeing an area of one's city trampled on and left a mess, I really do. I wish it weren't so. But I'm still of the belief that change is messy, however you do it, and people should take whatever (nonviolent) steps they have to in order to bring an issue to people's attention.

Tomorrow should be interesting...in what the turnout will be, I mean. They've worked with OaklandPD and the mayor, and after the recent debacle, I imagine the police will be seriously warned to behave themselves. But from the look of it, it's going to be massive. I hope so. Our folks are going over (which gives me a day off, since I can't march) and they've got tons of support. In a way I wish I could go, but on the other hand I've had my share of marches, and the huge ones like this is going to be are hot and tiring. They don't need me, I'll do my bit at home making yard signs and stuff.

At least they're not making a mess by camping out. Well-executed marches (and this one IS from all the info I'm getting) don't turn the public against you as much as long-time encampments.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:13 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:Ahh, I have no argument with that. I wish the occupy groups could get themselves together and work on keeping the area clean. No, cleanER. There's no way to have a lot of people and leave the area looking untouched, but I DO think they could do a better job. I understand the frustration of seeing an area of one's city trampled on and left a mess, I really do. I wish it weren't so. But I'm still of the belief that change is messy, however you do it, and people should take whatever (nonviolent) steps they have to in order to bring an issue to people's attention

Democracy is like sex, when you do it right it is messy!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:46 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ha ha... what's over YOUR head is that these officers in uniform are THE SAME GUYS!

LOL!

Really?

The SAME GUYS - in a different city, nearly a decade later????

Wow, You are such an astounding moron. You just NEVER stop striving for new level of stupid, do you? Jesus.

Never been or known a cop, huh?

I'm guessing not.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Jesus, that's the best your pathetic excuse for a mind can come up with? Really? Always plumbing new depths of stupid, our Rappyboy is. Wow.

Yes, I know cops. But oddly, none of the ones Ive known were at ground zero, OR in Atlanta for the OWS protests. Because, you know - they're not all the same guy.

You see, cops, like anyone else, they're individuals, and not just one amorphous lump.

If you actually knew some cops, you might have figured that out, dumbass.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 8:08 AM

My imagination! No!

There is no court on EARTH or any JANITOR that would consider that right. :( *fetal corner of despair*

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:46 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Not sure what you're referring to Byte, can you clarify for me please?

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 11:00 AM

Nick's comment about... Messy.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
My imagination! No!

There is no court on EARTH or any JANITOR that would consider that right. :( *fetal corner of despair*

No, it actually is messy. Sorry.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 12:56 PM

I don't understand how people can do stuff like that. It's just mega weird. And really gross. Provided it is not also criminal and completely unhygienic. Or involves rusted metal, bloodshed, or...

No. Why. Why have you done this to my brain? These horrors have been let out and it's really hard to put them back down.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 1:18 PM

Byte, we're talking about just regular old straight sex here. Even if done purely for procreation and nothing else, it's still kinda messy. There are exchanges of fluids, after all.

The real mess is with childbirth, of course. And then the 18 to 21 years following...

Anyway, go watch "The Walking Dead" or "American Horror Story", and all will be well again soon enough.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 1:23 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Never been or known a cop, huh?

Never been one, but known quite a few. They're peeps. Some really good, some really bad, the rest just earning a paycheck.
You are sickeningly black & white concerning this.

Not black and white on this at all, Chris. You summed up my sentiments dead on, and that IS my point. There are a ( very ) few adrenaline junkies who seek out to bust some heads, but most guys in uniform are real pros, regular joes and janes, looking to earn a day's pay. This 'gestapo storm trooper' crap that the Occutards are promoting is the real black/ white view of cops.

Ain't comin' from me.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 1:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
There are a ( very ) few adrenaline junkies who seek out to bust some heads

Those few stand out though. And usually go unpunished. The "code" an' all...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 1:33 PM

All of it is gross, including the normal kind. But "messy" as a descriptor just brings to mind some really awful stuff.

._.

Child birth is it's own horror. Related horror. Along with pregnancy.

The chromosome differences suggest separate species, which in itself suggests injection of larva and parasite growth.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 1:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Never been or known a cop, huh?

Never been one, but known quite a few. They're peeps. Some really good, some really bad, the rest just earning a paycheck.
You are sickeningly black & white concerning this.

Not black and white on this at all, Chris. You summed up my sentiments dead on, and that IS my point. There are a ( very ) few adrenaline junkies who seek out to bust some heads, but most guys in uniform are real pros, regular joes and janes, looking to earn a day's pay. This 'gestapo storm trooper' crap that the Occutards are promoting is the real black/ white view of cops.

Ain't comin' from me.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Riiiiiight - because you'd NEVER lump people all into one group, would you?

So is it ALL the "Occutards" that are promoting the "gestapo storm trooper crap"?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:09 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
There are a ( very ) few adrenaline junkies who seek out to bust some heads
Those few stand out though. And usually go unpunished. The "code" an' all...

That's shifting the argument to 'they're all the same, faceless thugs' to something else entirely.

Yeah, I suspect there's a 'code' , of sorts How can there not be ? Folks wear the same uniform, do the same work, face the same dangers, every day... point being, the same cop who'll answer the call of a armed robbery, or happen past a dark ally where some dirt bag is about to rape a woman, could very well find themselves in riot gear, having to deal w/ whiny, petulant law breakers, who force the police to waste precious time and resources dealing with them and this 'occupy' crap, instead of doing what the citizens NEED & expect them to do. It's a recipe for chaos, which is exactly what the organizers of this Occupy nonsense are hoping for.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yeah, I suspect there's a 'code' , of sorts How can there not be ? Folks wear the same uniform, do the same work, face the same dangers, every day... point being, the same cop who'll answer the call of a armed robbery, or happen past a dark ally where some dirt bag is about to rape a woman, could very well find themselves in riot gear, having to deal w/ whiny, petulant law breakers, who force the police to waste precious time and resources dealing with them and this 'occupy' crap, instead of doing what the citizens NEED & expect them to do. It's a recipe for chaos, which is exactly what the organizers of this Occupy nonsense are hoping for.

*Kurgan voice*
You waste my time!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:48 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"could very well find themselves in riot gear, having to deal w/ whiny, petulant law breakers, who force the police to waste precious time and resources dealing with them and this 'occupy' crap, instead of doing what the citizens NEED & expect them to do."

Hello,

It is always a shame when the police find themselves in riot gear, regarding their fellow human beings as whiny and petulant, and devoting resources doing something the citizens do not need and do not expect them to do.

I share your frustration that the police are busting the occupy crowd instead of doing what the citizenry wants from them.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:52 PM

America loves a winner!

By talking logic and reason ?

That's wasting your time ?

I guess you're not alone on this matter. It's a waste of MY time as well.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 3:57 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"It's a waste of MY time as well."

Hello,

I encourage you to conserve this precious resource.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 4:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
By talking logic and reason ?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Okay, not such a waste! That was really funny!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 5:02 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:Or involves rusted metal, bloodshed, or...

None of that. Just some whips, chains, lube....more lube, various vibrating toys and on occasion some hot wax. You know normal stuff.

.....just remember it only seems weird because you don't know what your neighbors do in bed!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 5:18 PM