Oakland Strike by Niki2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I don't know, I wondered about that myself. Given the diversity of the groups, I assume all kinds of people and ideologies are represented. I know I've seen a couple of signs among our own protesters with which I don't agree, like "there is life after capitalism". I can GUESS what that means, but I'd rather not. It IS kind of tough to be among such a diverse group and see things which don't represent me, but I don't know what else to do.

I noticed they're also "ahead of the curve" on provacateurs and infiltrators:

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 8:20 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Well, I get a "day off" tomorrow. All the local Occupys are getting together for a massive show in Oakland, and to close down the Port of Oakland.

Good for you.

If there is one thing that will make California better is less economic activity.

If the 'Occupy' movement has taught us anything its that nothing helps the poor or stimulates growth and job creation like a bunch of people refusing to work.

And imagine all the increased tax revenue from the shutdown of economic activity and a day where nobody earns a dime.

Think of all the schools that can be funded and police and firemen hired by all the money generated by the complete shutdown of the industry and commerce of your city.

Did anyone ever consider an anti-strike? Thats a day where everyone works as hard as they can for as long as they can but refuses to take any sort of pay (or perhaps donates their pay to to government as a voluntary tax). No, that would do no good. And forget any sort of 'Thank you for employing us Day' for your bosses. I suggest a 'Lockout Day' where everyone is sent home without pay in order to remind them how grateful they should be to have a job.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 8:30 AM

STORYMARK

The Lawyer chimes in.

No one bothers to notice.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 8:30 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I suggest a 'Lockout Day' where everyone is sent home without pay in order to remind them how grateful they should be to have a job.

Sure...I support this as well. Let see who cracks first the business owners and the banks the rely on wokers to run their businesses or the workers...who run their businesses.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 9:59 AM

Quote:
Sure...I support this as well. Let see who cracks first the business owners and the banks the rely on wokers to run their businesses or the workers...who run their businesses.

The workers. Because business owners and bank owners are rich, and never have to worry about when their next meal will be.

The businesses themselves might get screwed over though, as well as the workers. But in that case business owners will just declare bankruptcy, retire to Cancun, and host cocktail beach parties all day.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:29 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:44 AM

Ha, one of those posters is from the IWW.

Care to guess which ?

-F

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:45 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
The workers. Because business owners and bank owners are rich, and never have to worry about when their next meal will be.

The businesses themselves might get screwed over though, as well as the workers. But in that case business owners will just declare bankruptcy, retire to Cancun, and host cocktail beach parties all day.

Let them go back to Cancun. As soon as their buisnesses fail the workers will be free to take over a start one in their place.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 10:58 AM

Actually, I agree. But I'm surprised to hear you come out in favour of breaking and bulldozing the current system to build a new one. Are the occupiers willing to do this? If so, I may have to reassess my opinion about whether they'll accomplish anything.

Presumably, various occupier groups would decide either to reject or accept capitalism for their communities. For the ones that try to continue with capitalism, I'm not sure where the capital to start new businesses would come from. Probably not the global market, they'll be too busy trying to crush any new innovative socio-economic systems that come out of this. But then again, that sort of thing CAN form in a vacuum (as must occur in the alternative communities). So I guess we'll see.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 12:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

"Hero" here forgets that, according to Randian conservative dogma, a general strike can NEVER harm business, because the CEOs are the only real "producers", after all.

Remember, Randroids actually believe that if none of the workers show up at all, the bosses will pull themselves up by their bootstraps, man the machinery, and get more done on their own.

That it's never happened that way in the history of the world rather escapes their notice...

The real "job creators" and "producers" in this economy are the working men and women who show up every day and keep the doors open for their bosses. Any boss who doesn't realize this is on borrowed time.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 12:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

This could be better than Atlas shrugging, because the producers don't have to do a damn thing, and the Occutards will only end up hurting themselves. Making themselves angrier, and more comical.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 5:06 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
This could be better than Atlas shrugging, because the producers don't have to do a damn thing, and the Occutards will only end up hurting themselves. Making themselves angrier, and more comical.

History says your an idiot.

There is a reason companies use to bring in strike breakers to strong arm workers. There is a reason worker strikes work.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 5:52 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
This could be better than Atlas shrugging, because the producers don't have to do a damn thing, and the Occutards will only end up hurting themselves. Making themselves angrier, and more comical.

This *IS* Atlas shrugging - shrugging off the dead weight of the middlemen like you, Rappy. This is the ACTUAL producers of this country refusing to carry the dead weight of people who really are nothing more than used car salesmen. This is the workers shrugging off the useless hangers-on, those leeches and vampires who produce nothing, offer nothing, make nothing, and only drain off the system.

In other words, this is the true "Atlas" of the world - the workers - looking at the likes of YOU, Raptard, and shrugging, because you are inconsequential, useless, less than nothing.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 6:57 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Frem, who are the IWWW, and which poster is theirs? Just curious.

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Tuesday, November 1, 2011 7:16 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Frem, who are the IWWW, and which poster is theirs? Just curious.

The IWW (typo there , only 2 W's , not 3, so I hadda go back and check.) was the International Workers of the World, a proto-typical labor organizing movement in the 1930's, also commonly called The Wobblies. Among others, they tried to organize farm workers. They were widely accused of being a Communist party front group. They were also widely persecuted, abused, beaten and arrested without cause.

I have to guess about the posters, but I'd say the red one with the hands cuffed in chains made of dollar signs-- that has the most look of 30's political art. Rosie the Riveter was later, I think, from the 1940's women-working-at-men's-jobs
so-the-guys-can-go-fight movement.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 2:07 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Actually, I agree. But I'm surprised to hear you come out in favour of breaking and bulldozing the current system to build a new one. Are the occupiers willing to do this? If so, I may have to reassess my opinion about whether they'll accomplish anything.

Presumably, various occupier groups would decide either to reject or accept capitalism for their communities. For the ones that try to continue with capitalism, I'm not sure where the capital to start new businesses would come from. Probably not the global market, they'll be too busy trying to crush any new innovative socio-economic systems that come out of this. But then again, that sort of thing CAN form in a vacuum (as must occur in the alternative communities). So I guess we'll see.

I don't think the system is the problem, but some of the people in the system. The problem is many at the top continue to take more and more simply because they can. See I have no problem with the top people make a lot of money, but there is a point where it becomes excessive. That excess should go to the worker in the form of better pay and or benefits. That was the whole idea behind Trickle-Down economics. That did not work because the top just kept taking, nothing ever trickled down.

So let the greedy bastards go. There are plenty of wealthy people who understand that it is important to take care of their employees that can provide capital and help new, fundamentally benevolent, businesses start.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 3:39 AM

Hmm. I guess that's where we differ then. I think a community has some right to chose it's socioeconomic system, and I recognize some communities will choose a capitalist system or retain the one we currently have. But I also think capitalism inevitably becomes corrupted. A "benevolent" business owner may change over their lifetime to become more jaded, a business itself can go through multiple generations and people more interested in profits than people will tend to accumulate at the top, presumably because they earn the business more money, and other people in that business erroneously believe they might see some of that money.

Then we end up right back here.

I actually do support less extreme measures than starting society from scratch, and I understand the urge to try to work within the current system to improve things, since if you broke the system there'd be a lot of hardship before people found their feet again. At the same time, I'm not sure incremental changes within the system can ultimately change anything. I'm willing to try, but I think plan B is always an option.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 4:05 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Frem, I thought of those two as well, the minute you told me who IW is.

Nick, you stated my own position pretty clearly.

Byte, I definitely take your point. My question would be, do you know of any other system which has lasted over 200 yers which has NOT become corrupted? I'd be interested in knowing.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 4:59 AM

Yes and no, the system lasted a long time, it cycled between corrupt and not corrupt, but at least it was a cycle and not a continual spiral into worse corruption.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:18 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Remember, Randroids actually believe that if none of the workers show up at all, the bosses will pull themselves up by their bootstraps, man the machinery, and get more done on their own.

That it's never happened that way in the history of the world rather escapes their notice...

I'm not sure what a Randroid is, but its kind of happening all over. In fact leaving the workers behind is kind of the way the world works.

Lets say the workers and the business just can't come to an agreement, what happens?

1. The business shuts down, its just gone. Now look at all the empty factories and closed businesses around and you'll see this does happen, but a better example is West Virginia coal towns in the 1970s. Workers made it too expensive to mine coal and would not work (aka a strike), so the mines shut down and whole towns shut down with them.

2. The business brings in new workers. If I refuse to work, I can be replaced, so can anyone.

3. The business moves to a another place. I'm sure there is no possibility of factories being opened in places that want them, like China or Mexico or Texas. Your right, that NEVER happens.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:22 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
My question would be, do you know of any other system which has lasted over 200 yers which has NOT become corrupted? I'd be interested in knowing.

The United States Marine Corps. But they are the exception, not the rule.

Do you mean just corrupted or do you include competence (as in the lack of it)?

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:36 AM

Yah, the third one down is from the IWW, and I suspect the second as well cause it reminds me of Sabbie, the IWW cat.

The IWW is still around, and something of a force albeit a small one and often more active overseas than here - they've been long and long recovering from what amounted to a legalized and encouraged campaign of destruction on behalf of the powers that be, and the conduct toward them is a damn good example of the truth behind all those platitudes about respecting human rights and the constitution coming from the mouths of our so-called leaders.

As for affiliations, there was a time, particularly back in the 1920s when the unionists, socialists, communists and anarchists were pretty unified in sticking it to the powers that be, but it fell apart over ideological differences and what happened in Catalonia back in 1936 kind of put paid to any hope of Anarchists EVER trusting Communists or Socialists again since they happily threw in with Fascists and Capitalists in trying to exterminate them.

There was also the treachery of one Samuel Gompers, who in return for a cushy cabinet position turned coat and brought the AFL with him in breaking IWW strikes under the thin fiction of patriotism since they were anti-war and because they were pro racial unity at a time when that was considered an affront.
Ponder that next time you might think the lapdogs of the AFL-CIO are on the side of workers.

But yeah, the IWW is but a faded shadow of itself, although it still manages to do some good in the world, like helping form the MTWIU-530, which came out of truckers being screwed to the floor by outrageous fuel prices, and really sticking it to starbucks in their treatment of Baristas via the IU-660.

And yeah, imma Wobbly - I don't agree with all their principles and rhetoric, mind you...
But I trust them far more than the corporate sponsored company lapdog employee pacification orgs pretending to be unions nowadays, oh yes.

-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:45 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Remember, Randroids actually believe that if none of the workers show up at all, the bosses will pull themselves up by their bootstraps, man the machinery, and get more done on their own.

That it's never happened that way in the history of the world rather escapes their notice...

I'm not sure what a Randroid is, but its kind of happening all over. In fact leaving the workers behind is kind of the way the world works.

Lets say the workers and the business just can't come to an agreement, what happens?

1. The business shuts down, its just gone. Now look at all the empty factories and closed businesses around and you'll see this does happen, but a better example is West Virginia coal towns in the 1970s. Workers made it too expensive to mine coal and would not work (aka a strike), so the mines shut down and whole towns shut down with them.

2. The business brings in new workers. If I refuse to work, I can be replaced, so can anyone.

3. The business moves to a another place. I'm sure there is no possibility of factories being opened in places that want them, like China or Mexico or Texas. Your right, that NEVER happens.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

Why, what a perfect summation of why this broken system needs to be changed. Who woulda think "Hero" was a supporter of OWS.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 8:54 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Funny, you whine when jobs are sent over seas, but then claim how the real 'producers' are the very workers who don't need anyone to sink the capital into starting up a business, or take the risk that a new idea or product will pay off.

Comrade Kwickie, you live in a world that is exactly 180 degrees from reality.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 1:09 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Remember, Randroids actually believe that if none of the workers show up at all, the bosses will pull themselves up by their bootstraps, man the machinery, and get more done on their own.

That it's never happened that way in the history of the world rather escapes their notice...

I'm not sure what a Randroid is, but its kind of happening all over. In fact leaving the workers behind is kind of the way the world works.

Lets say the workers and the business just can't come to an agreement, what happens?

1. The business shuts down, its just gone. Now look at all the empty factories and closed businesses around and you'll see this does happen, but a better example is West Virginia coal towns in the 1970s. Workers made it too expensive to mine coal and would not work (aka a strike), so the mines shut down and whole towns shut down with them.

2. The business brings in new workers. If I refuse to work, I can be replaced, so can anyone.

3. The business moves to a another place. I'm sure there is no possibility of factories being opened in places that want them, like China or Mexico or Texas. Your right, that NEVER happens.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

Businesses can be replaced, too, you know. I've replaced several. In fact, the last three businesses I left went out of business within a year of my leaving, because they had to hire too many new workers to try to replace me. Last job I left, I was told I was maxed out on payroll at $22 an hour; when I left, they kept hiring people trying to get all the work done that I did in a day. They ended up with six employees doing my job(s), at between $10 and $15 an hour each. Boy, they got off cheap, eh?

My old boss is now homeless, and one of my old coworkers bought his $4,000,000 company for $5,000.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 2:23 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

That's interesting Quicko, its like Yurtle the Turtle.

So how did it go Niki?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 3:48 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

It's going. Right now. Let's see, as of 6:30:

Estimates are between 4,000 and 5,000. They met and marched all the way to the port. Advance groups from Critical Mass went early to each port and stopped trucks from going in and longshoremen were "stopped" from going in for their 7:00 shift, but the outgoing longshorement have left unencumbered. The truck drivers just got out and have been sitting in their cabs enjoying it. Those I saw interviewed said they support the protest; when asked if it's impacting their job they said yes, but it's worth it. There are protesters on any number on top of the trucks, which are spread out along the route of the march, wherever they were stopped by the crush of marchers as it grew and kind of swelled toward the port.

Many families pulled their children out to march and educate them...the teachers remember had to take a sick or personal day, and were told NOT to bring their students. Apparently the parents decided to take the kids down themselves and join, and some are hooking up with their kids' teachers. Apparently LOTS of kids.

Cops doing nothing but traffic duty, but they're there, of course. A lot of peaople, doctors, nurses, came from the hospitals. Critical Mass is there--the bicycle group that ties up downtown SF once a month,

There a group of "anarchists" running around, dressed in black and waring masks, who have vandalized several banks and Whole Foods (rumor was Whole Foods told their employees they'd fire anyone who participated). They hit fast and go, but the places they've been there long enough, protesters have surrounded them and made them leave. Some of the protesters stayed to help clean up the graffiti, and one broken window has a sign taped to it saying "We're better than this". Aside from that group, estimated at 50-60, it's been totally peaceful. Actually very familiar, kind of a semi-festive environment, looks quite like some '60s demonstrations/marches I've been to.

There was a press conference. Talk about a sound bite she will wish she hadn't offered, the City Administrator went on about how they don't want any fires, vandalism, rocks or bottles (or fecal matter!) hurled at the cops, they want it to stay peaceful: "The world is watching Oakland tonight". Ouch. Seen it replayed half a dozen times on various stations already. The two local stations are covering it exclusively; just caught it on MSNBC and think I caught the end of an interview or something on CNN.

Interim Police Chief was all sweetness and light; stressing they'd been peaceful and that the vandalism was on the part of this one small group, and that the protesters had self-policed those wherever they encountered them. Quan hasn't shown her face as yet; I'm not surprised she's keeping a low profile!

Port's long since shut down. It's dark here now, and many (especially with kids) are going home for the night. As they go out, at least an equal number (no doubt having had dinner after getting home from work) are swarming in. Now it's dark the I start worrying. After dark is when most of these things which go wrong, do so. It remains to be seen where it goes from here. Thus far, tho', minimal police presence, so far no arrests, and all peaceful.

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Wednesday, November 2, 2011 7:05 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Thanks for the report Niki.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 5:33 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I am somewhat dismayed at the description of people stopping the movement of vehicles. Participation in a work stoppage should be entirely voluntary. It is neither acceptable nor desirable to force participation by stopping vehicles.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 5:48 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Anthony, we've had this discussion and I'd really rather not go back there. We know you feel extremely strongly about anything that stops anyone from going anywhere they want to, and we know some of us feel differently. Can we agree to disagree on that point, please?

Once again, it's called civil disobedience.

By the way, when I went to bed the only injury that had occurred was one of the protesters having been run down by a motorist, pissed off at them blocking his way, hitting him.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 6:11 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Update: As I feared, once darkness fell and it got late, things changed:

Quote:
Authorities used tear gas early Thursday on anti-Wall Street protesters who defied orders to disperse after earlier shutting down the Port of Oakland, California, police said.
.....
Police issued their first order to protesters to clear the area about 11:55 p.m., the statement said. After "repeated orders" were issued, police were then ordered to fire tear gas and bean bags at the demonstrators.
.....
Meanwhile, in Seattle, police used pepper spray on protesters who disrupted rush-hour traffic.

Hundreds of protesters surrounded a downtown Seattle hotel where JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon was speaking, blocking streets. http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/03/us/occupy-demonstrators/index.html?hpt=h
p_bn2 MSM; this was the only story I found on CNN, and while it reported some good things, it started out with the violence, and some of the facts were wrong:
Quote:
A crowd of several hundred people threw rocks and shot fireworks at officers after being asked to leave the scene, prompting officers to fire tear gas, authorities said.

After the port protest, Occupy Oakland demonstrators returned to a city park and nearby streets, where the violence broke out.

Police said in a statement that after a day of "primarily peaceful" demonstrations, they responded to a late-night call that protesters had broken into and occupied a downtown building and set several fires.

"The protesters began hurling rocks, explosives, bottles and flaming objects at responding officers," the statement said. "Several private and municipal buildings sustained heavy vandalism."

Dozens of protesters wielding shields were surrounded and arrested, police said.
...
Earlier Wednesday, police said a small group of protesters vandalized five businesses, including banks and a Whole Foods. The incidents involved graffiti and smashed windows, authorities said.

At the port as of late Wednesday, "Maritime operations remain effectively shut down, and the port has been taking steps to help workers in the harbor area get home safely," the port said in a statement. "Maritime operations will not resume until it is safe and secure to do so."

Port officials hope to resume business Thursday. "Continued missed shifts represent economic hardship for maritime workers, truckers and their families, as well as lost jobs and lost tax revenue for our region," the port statement said.
Two lies. First, it wasn't protesters who did the initial graffiti and vandalism, AS REPORTED AND VIDEOED BY LOCAL STATIONS yesterday, and as I posted. It was a group of 50-60 "anarchists" dressed all in black and wearing masks. In numerous places the protesters got them to stop, and in a couple of places protesters stayed behind to clean the graffiti.

Second, the Port Authority didn't have to "take steps" to help the workers get home safely. They were allowed to leave by the protesters and were in no way threatened. As far as I know, they don't "hope to resume" business; the strike was a one-day thing (noate all the quotes came from WEDNESDAY) and I have no knowledge of further disruption. "Not resume until it is safe and secure" is bullshit. It was never UNsafe, they were peacefully stopped.

The idea "The protesters began hurling rocks, explosives, bottles and flaming objects at responding officers" comes before the fact that, after defying the order to disperse, "police were then ordered to fire tear gas and bean bags at the demonstrators". In other words, police started it and some protesters fought back. It makes it sound like the protesters started it, which isn't true. Once they were back at the park--which they'd retaken several days ago, they could have left them alone and it would be exactly the same as it was prior to the strike. While I deplore them fighting back, make no mistake, I pretty much expected the police would find an excuse to repeat their earlier violence against the protesters, once the families had gone home and they figured it was time to move in on the remainder.

So I guess we know how the MSM wants to report this. Will be interesting to see how it's written up in other places.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 6:52 AM

Hey Anthony.

I think ultimately it's a delicate balance between people making their forces heard and the convenience of the non-participants.

Even though the truck drivers being unable to reach the docks brings to mind old questions about Union strikes from the early 1900s, and whether a union strike can really force their non-union coworkers to not work (or force them to join the union), IN THIS CASE, it sounds like from Niki that the truck drivers actually supported the cause, even recognizing they might get a pay hit for not being able to report in.

Quote:
Those I saw interviewed said they support the protest; when asked if it's impacting their job they said yes, but it's worth it.

Personally, I think if the non-protesters CONSENT to the inconvenience or even infringement imposed by protesters, it's probably okay all around.

Sounds like some motorists were bothered though. The protesters might want to consider that.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 6:55 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Wandering around a bit on the MSM's webpages (I already covered CNN's stories), I found:

ABC: Two stories. The first "Sexual Assaults in 'Occupy' Camps". Waaaay down the page, "Occupy Oakland Tries to Shut Down City", which is a lie.

Time: Nothing, except the one story copied from CNN.

CBS: One article on the front page, which gives links within it to several others. The front-page one: "Occupy Protests Go from Peace to 'Chaos'", which starts out

Quote:
A protest that shut down the Port of Oakland to show the broadening reach of the Occupy Wall Street movement ended in violence when police in riot gear arrested dozens of protesters overnight who broke into a vacant building, shattered downtown windows, sprayed graffiti and set blazes along the way.

At least four protesters were hospitalized Thursday with various injuries, including one needing stitches after fighting with an officer, police said. Several officers were also injured but didn't need hospitalization.

"We go from having a peaceful movement to now just chaos," protester Monique Agnew, 40, said early Thursday.

Protesters also threw concrete chunks, metal pipes, lit roman candles and molotov cocktails, police said.

The far-flung movement of protesters challenging the world's economic systems and distribution of wealth has gained momentum in recent weeks, capturing the world's attention by shutting down one of the nation's busiest shipping ports toward the end of a daylong "general strike" that prompted solidarity rallies across the U.S. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57317465/occupy-protests-go-from-p
eace-to-chaos/?tag=stack]

NBC doesn't seem to HAVE a page for news, the news is under all their news "Shows". Their "news" page is under MSNBC (I guess that tells me how seriously NBC takes news!). There I find: "Peaceful Occupy protest degenerates into riot" (pretty much a word-for-word repeat of CBS' report). Also "Sex assault arrest highlights security concerns at 'Occupy' protests", pretty much a reworded rehash of the ABC story.

I freely grant that there are far more new or newsworthy happenings currently, the G20, politics, the family-court judge who whipped his disabled daughter, Greece, etc., nonetheless the ridiculously unimportant stories that filled the front pages on the internet sickened me, as did how they're reporting on Oakland and other Occupy sites.

I guess that educates ME on the MSM and their priorities and slants. Given I rarely (if ever) watch the "big three", I hadn't paid much attention previously. There are stories on the local stations, but I see where the emphasis is on the broadcast stations. Glad I stay on cable.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:02 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, some of the news stories indicated later that some of the truckers were angry and wanted to go home, so what I reported was only early on.

On the other hand, the teamsters had decided it wasn't a good idea to actually "strike", so as you said, they were supporting us by being "forced" to stop. There was talk at one point that they'd strike with us, and even hopes the East Coast teamsters would join, but obviously they chose not to "officially" support us.

I imagine it was a mix of both.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:32 AM

Ah. Then perhaps I have some issues with that, but what's done is done.

Niki, this is a long line of pro-authority media propaganda, such as the G-20 Pittsburgh summit.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:43 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah, Byte; it's an eye-opener for me; I knew we were as susceptible to propaganda as most other countries, but in this case I knew the facts, so it was quite revealting (hee, hee, hee, typo--probably a subconscious cross between "revealing" and "revolting").

Along the line, I happened across a photo of the "anarchists" doing their thing:

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 7:52 AM

Hmm, I have some questions about the guy on the left. He looks kinda "cop" to me. It's the belt.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:05 AM

Also: photograph looks totally posed.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 8:59 AM

"Anarchists" my ass - cops, and obviously so.

BELIEVE me folks, if the Black Banner goes up and the Anarchists choose to "engage", there will be absofuckinlutely NO doubt about it whatever.

And as for media complicity, you expected any less ?

Way it's goin, you wanna get the word out for real, bring your own media, broadcasting equipment and goons to protect it, or if you feel certain rights are being deliberately and maliciously stifled by the people in possession of mainstream broadcast equipment - perhaps one might consider alternate ways to deal with that, just sayin...

Anyhows, again, playin a rigged game with a marked deck at the sharpers table by his house rules - and so long as that is true, no help from this quarter.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 9:20 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

On the flip side of things, I have a hard time supporting a movement that considers it their right to go where they want, when they want, but would deny such a right to others.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 11:28 AM

Beir bua agus beannacht

The movement in my city has shifted from focusing on camping out to doing demonstrations, which I feel is better. Last night they stopped traffic on the bridges and the police sort of followed them around since the march didn't have a preplanned route. They were all loud but pretty peaceful, no police brutality, which was the focus of the march, I think it was supposed to be a march of solidarity with the Oakland protestors. The only thing that went wrong was that a participant pushed a policeman against a moving bus, but it all worked out okay, everyone's fine, there wer a few arrests but nothing outrageous.

As for stopping traffic, I know its inconvenient and it certainly isn't something I like, but I understand it and think protestors have the right to do it, as long as some roads are left open. In our case we have so many bridges across the river.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 2:51 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'm not going to get into the "stopping traffic" thing with you again, Anthony, so others will have to respond to you on that. I know what an immoveable wall you are on the issue, and I'm certainly not the unstoppable object to confront you, I learned that long ago.

As for the rest: The rioters made a real mess, it's sickening to see, and it's sickening for everyone in the Occupy movement, because it became the story. There are protesters there right now...I've seen the film on local TV, it's not faked...scrubbing the graffiti and helping put up wood for the broken windows.

Personally, I feel we should all be down there doing that, and we should take up a collection to pay for the power washing and everything ELSE that has to be done to fix this mess. Out of (one estimate) some seven thousand peaceful protesters, this one small group hijacked the entire message, and we made it possible for them to do so, whatever our own intentions were. I wish I could convince everyone to do just that, dammit, I'm pissed, as are all of us I imagine.

Demonstrations in Oakland are an iffy thing at best; they should have known the potential for this. I was afraid of it; the park is in one of the five poorest neighborhoods in the Bay Area; the other four are three in other parts of Oakland and good old Hunter's Point in the City. That means more than 40% of them live UNDER the poverty line, have less than $11,000 to live on per year. That's a dangerous place to try to have a PEACEFUL protest at the best of times. A riot, sure, easy, but peaceful protest that stretches into the night? Almost impossible, especially when you've got the Oakland PD looking for any excuse to move in.

Very disheartening.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 2:58 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

You know what's interesting, Byte? I'd be willing to bet that if that photo were of actual protesters, wearing regular clothes and some kind of message on their t-shirts or with some sign in their hands, you'd accept it immediately. I'm willing to bet on that. Those WERE the people described BY STORE OWNERS as causing the violence earlier in the day; when it all got nasty around midnight, I have no idea if these were the people involved, but from what I'm hearing from the Occupy people on local news (which is still running a LOT of coverage), they were. They're described as a small group which broke windows, sprayed graffiti EVERYfuckingwhere, took over a building and started fires.

Riona, you're probably right that it was a support demonstration; they happened all over as other Occupy groups demonstrated or marched to show their support. I'm glad it went okay and nobody was seriously harmed.

Frem, I don't believe it was the cops. It's funny; it's like you and Byte are on very extreme opposites of the issue, and I don't think either of you is right, so I guess I'm sitting in the middle. They didn't have enough invested in starting yet another mess like this--certainly they were there and poised, but that's no surprise, given where all this took place and given Oakland PD. But I don't believe it was in their interests to cause all this vandalism, so we'll have to agree to disagree. This is exactly the kind of situation a bunch of assholes would take advantage of, it doesn't NEED cops or infiltrators or whatever.

It's just sickening that it happened. Apparently Occupy Oakland finally woke up anyway; they're now meeting to put together a bigger and better security force than they had before, and determined to keep these kinds of bastards from doing something like this again.

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 3:13 PM

No, I'd pretty much still think it was cops because of the way the picture was set up. You keep mistaking my mistrust of the possible powers behind the movement for a dislike of the protesters. Actually, I'm very sympathetic to the protesters.

Why do you think Frem and I are on opposite sides of this?

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Thursday, November 3, 2011 4:38 PM

(Post Relayed via wireless)

Cops.

Might I remind y'all that one reason Emmet keeps pestering me about workin for him is that I can pick folk out of a crowd from fifty some yards away just by how they move - stride, body posture, gestures, physical mannerisms, which easily identify a known person and give some information about even an unknown one, for example many veterans are easily noteable by the standardised length of stride they're conditioned to by marching in formation.

It's one of the things I give Gus hell for, in that there's no way in hell he can even pretend not to be a former staff sergeant, the walk, the voice, the mannerisms...

So too it is with cops, they have some really obvious "tells" besides the goddamn shoes, and if that ain't enough for you - THIS.

And if you want more info on the back-channels happenings, you can go here.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/10/25/18694945.php
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/11/02/18696683.php

-F

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Friday, November 4, 2011 3:57 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thank you Frem. I knew they were there, but that's rather blatant! I keep being educated by this experience.

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Sunday, November 6, 2011 9:12 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Back at the camp here in town, the rat problem is starting to rear its ugly head, the news was showing them scurrying around. Plus the camp has attracted a lot of people that are ... unrelated to the cause. The Occupy people are trying to keep things from devolving but its hard since all these other people who aren't very well behaved have moved in, as my best friend's mom found out a week and a half ago when she went down there to check it out. That's the latest here in my city.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, November 11, 2011 8:45 AM