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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Problem is, Concealed Carry is not a right granted by any amendment of the constitution.

Even if you assume a universal right to keep and bear arms, that does not imply a universal right to conceal arms.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
It passed the House.

So now it will go to the Senate, where as one man put it, "good bills, go to die".

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H.R.822 -- National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 (Reported in House - RH)


HR 822 RH


Union Calendar No. 187


112th CONGRESS


1st Session



H. R. 822


[Report No. 112-277]

To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.



IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES



February 18, 2011

Mr. STEARNS (for himself and Mr. SHULER) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary



November 10, 2011

Additional sponsors: Mr. BOREN, Mr. ROSS of Arkansas, Mr. GRAVES of Missouri, Mr. HUELSKAMP, Mr. GIBSON, Mr. HELLER, Mr. OWENS, Mr. COFFMAN of Colorado, Mr. LAMBORN, Mr. DUNCAN of Tennessee, Mrs. SCHMIDT, Mr. WESTMORELAND, Mr. ROGERS of Alabama, Mr. GINGREY of Georgia, Mr. YOUNG of Alaska, Mrs. BACHMANN, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. GARRETT, Mr. COLE, Mr. DIAZ-BALART, Mr. BOSWELL, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mr. BARTON of Texas, Mr. CARTER, Mr. PENCE, Mr. HEINRICH, Mr. BENISHEK, Mr. CHAFFETZ, Mr. HALL, Mr. HOLDEN, Mr. WEST, Mr. HERGER, Mr. MICA, Mr. JOHNSON of Illinois, Mr. POSEY, Ms. GRANGER, Mr. RAHALL, Mr. GARY G. MILLER of California, Mr. BISHOP of Georgia, Mr. PETERSON, Mr. KISSELL, Mr. DAVIS of Kentucky, Mr. MCINTYRE, Mr. LATHAM, Ms. FOXX, Mr. BACHUS, Mrs. ADAMS, Mr. WILSON of South Carolina, Mr. MULVANEY, Mr. PETRI, Mr. MCCOTTER, Mr. TURNER of Ohio, Mr. CANSECO, Ms. JENKINS, Mrs. EMERSON, Mr. KLINE, Mr. GENE GREEN of Texas, Mr. WITTMAN, Mr. HARRIS, Mr. JORDAN, Mr. COSTELLO, Mr. FLEMING, Mr. ROSS of Florida, Mr. RIVERA, Mr. BILIRAKIS, Mr. LATTA, Mr. ROGERS of Michigan, Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas, Mr. KINZINGER of Illinois, Mr. GIBBS, Mr. PALAZZO, Mr. BUCHANAN, Mr. CRENSHAW, Mr. GRIFFITH of Virginia, Mr. DENT, Mr. TIBERI, Mr. ALTMIRE, Mr. THORNBERRY, Mrs. MILLER of Michigan, Mr. CRITZ, Mr. NUGENT, Mr. POMPEO, Mr. POE of Texas, Mr. ADERHOLT, Mr. PLATTS, Mr. FORBES, Mr. SCHOCK, Mr. HUNTER, Mr. WALZ of Minnesota, Mr. SULLIVAN, Mr. LUETKEMEYER, Mr. DUNCAN of South Carolina, Mr. SCALISE, Mr. HENSARLING, Mr. YOUNG of Indiana, Mr. WOLF, Mr. TERRY, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr. HECK, Mr. DENHAM, Mr. RYAN of Ohio, Mr. CAMP, Mr. LUCAS, Mr. MCKINLEY, Mr. SHUSTER, Mr. REED, Mr. THOMPSON of Pennsylvania, Mr. GUINTA, Mr. BROOKS, Mrs. ELLMERS, Mr. CONAWAY, Mr. FLORES, Mr. MARCHANT, Mr. MURPHY of Pennsylvania, Mr. BRADY of Texas, Mr. JONES, Mr. ALEXANDER, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. MACK, Mr. BISHOP of Utah, Mrs. CAPITO, Mr. ROONEY, Mr. LUJAN, Mr. YODER, Mr. KELLY, Ms. ROS-LEHTINEN, Mr. REHBERG, Mr. BONNER, Mr. BROUN of Georgia, Mr. CHANDLER, Mr. BARROW, Mr. OLSON, Mr. LANDRY, Mr. BARLETTA, Mr. BARTLETT, Mr. LATOURETTE, Mr. GUTHRIE, Mr. JOHNSON of Ohio, Mr. AKIN, Mr. BUCSHON, Mr. DONNELLY of Indiana, Mr. STIVERS, Mr. FITZPATRICK, Mr. CHABOT, Mr. KIND, Mr. CULBERSON, Mr. SCHILLING, Mr. BOUSTANY, Mr. FARENTHOLD, Mr. SMITH of Nebraska, Mr. ROE of Tennessee, Mr. NEUGEBAUER, Mr. CUELLAR, Mr. LONG, Mr. MCCAUL, Mr. MATHESON, Mr. MICHAUD, Mr. DEFAZIO, Mr. WHITFIELD, Mr. DESJARLAIS, Mr. AUSTRIA, Mr. HARPER, Mr. BACA, Mr. BILBRAY, Mr. HANNA, Mr. SCHWEIKERT, Mr. WALSH of Illinois, Mr. CRAVAACK, Mr. MARINO, Mr. DINGELL, Mr. MCCLINTOCK, Mr. GRIFFIN of Arkansas, Mr. TIPTON, Mr. WALDEN, Mr. GOSAR, Mr. LARSEN of Washington, Mr. NUNNELEE, Mrs. MYRICK, Mr. LANKFORD, Mr. LABRADOR, Mr. HULTGREN, Mr. RENACCI, Mr. SCOTT of South Carolina, Mr. GOODLATTE, Mr. BASS of New Hampshire, Mr. GRAVES of Georgia, Mr. MCHENRY, Mrs. ROBY, Mr. RIGELL, Mr. CRAWFORD, Mr. AUSTIN SCOTT of Georgia, Mr. ROKITA, Mrs. HARTZLER, Mr. SOUTHERLAND, Mr. ROGERS of Kentucky, Mr. COBLE, Mr. STUTZMAN, Mr. GOWDY, Mr. ROYCE, Mr. QUAYLE, Mr. UPTON, Mr. PITTS, Mr. PEARCE, Mr. PRICE of Georgia, Mr. HURT, Mrs. BLACKBURN, Mr. FLEISCHMANN, Mr. HUIZENGA of Michigan, Mr. WALBERG, Mr. ISSA, Mr. ROHRABACHER, Mr. CAMPBELL, Mr. NUNES, Mr. BERG, Mrs. NOEM, Mrs. MCMORRIS RODGERS, Mr. RIBBLE, Mr. RYAN of Wisconsin, Mr. BURGESS, Mr. SHIMKUS, Mr. WOMACK, Mrs. BLACK, Mr. KINGSTON, Mr. YOUNG of Florida, Mr. CARDOZA, Ms. HERRERA BEUTLER, Mr. DUFFY, Mr. SCHRADER, Mr. FINCHER, Ms. SEWELL, Mr. KING of Iowa, Mr. MCCARTHY of California, Mr. MCKEON, Ms. BUERKLE, Mr. LOBIONDO, Mr. GALLEGLY, Mrs. LUMMIS, Mr. GARDNER, Mr. CASSIDY, Mr. WEBSTER, Mrs. BIGGERT, Mr. COURTNEY, Mr. HASTINGS of Washington, and Mr. CALVERT



November 10, 2011

Deleted sponsor: Mr. COHEN (added May 2, 2011; deleted October 12, 2011)



November 10, 2011

Reported with an amendment, committed to the Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union, and ordered to be printed



[Strike out all after the enacting clause and insert the part printed in italic]



[For text of introduced bill, see copy of bill as introduced on February 18, 2011]

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A BILL

To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011'.

SEC. 2. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:

`Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms

`(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that--
`(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or
`(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.
`(b) The possession or carrying of a concealed handgun in a State under this section shall be subject to the same conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State law or the law of a political subdivision of a State, that apply to the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun by residents of the State or political subdivision who are licensed by the State or political subdivision to do so, or not prohibited by the State from doing so.
`(c) In subsection (a), the term `identification document' means a document made or issued by or under the authority of the United States Government, a State, or a political subdivision of a State which, when completed with information concerning a particular individual, is of a type intended or commonly accepted for the purpose of identification of individuals.'.
(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926C the following:
`926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.'.
(c) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall take effect 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.

SEC. 3. GAO AUDIT OF THE STATES' CONCEALED CARRY PERMIT OR LICENSING REQUIREMENTS FOR NON-RESIDENTS.

(a) The Comptroller General of the United States shall conduct an audit of--
(1) the laws and regulations of each State that authorize the issuance of a valid permit or license to permit a person, other than a resident of such State, to possess or carry a concealed firearm, including a description of the permitting or licensing requirements of each State that issues concealed carry permits or licenses to persons other than a resident of such State;
(2) the number of such valid permits or licenses issued or denied (and the basis for such denials) by each State to persons other than a resident of such State; and
(3) the effectiveness of such State laws and regulations in protecting the public safety.
(b) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this Act, the Comptroller General shall submit to Congress a report on the findings of the study conducted under subsection (a).
Union Calendar No. 187


112th CONGRESS


1st Session



H. R. 822


[Report No. 112-277]



A BILL

To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



November 10, 2011



Reported with an amendment, committed to the Committee of the Whole House on the State of the Union, and ordered to be printed

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Originally posted by Geezer:


So, among other things, you can only carry a concealed firearm into another state if they already have a law allowing concealed carry.

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To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.

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http://www.nationalgunrights.org/trojan-horse-to-receive-floor-vote/

As you know, I’ve been vocal about my opposition to H.R. 822. I’m worried it will open the door to MASSIVE federal overreach and intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.

The LAST people we want involved in setting concealed weapons policy are the federal government.

In fact, one of my biggest concerns about concealed carry permits — the lists of gun owners a permit process creates — should send shivers down your spine: Imagine Eric Holder and the BATFE with a national database of concealed carry permit holders.

It’s bad enough to have those lists exist at a state level. Once Eric Holder and his cronies find a way to request that list from a state, they’ll do it — all the in the name of “implementing H.R. 822.”

That possibility is enough to make any red-blooded American want to shelf H.R. 822....


Once gun owners let the Obamacrats start mandating whether states recognize permit reciprocity, they will want to mandate what it takes to get and keep those permits.

We’re talking about:

More onerous standards to acquire a permit so that only FBI agents can pass muster (look at New York’s permit system);
Higher fees;
More training requirements;
A demonstration of “Need” for a permit;
More frequent renewal periods;
Federally-mandated waiting periods;
A national database of all permit holders, accessible by Attorney General Eric Holder;
An extensive, federally-created list of Criminal Safezones, where only criminals will carry and where law-abiding gun owners are vulnerable;
The list of potential problems is endless....

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Geezer,

Quite correct. Which leaves off about 2 states of the union, unless I miss my count. D.C. and one other I can't bring to mind.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
Anthony,

You may find this opinion of interest.

Quote:

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http://www.nationalgunrights.org/trojan-horse-to-receive-floor-vote/

As you know, I’ve been vocal about my opposition to H.R. 822. I’m worried it will open the door to MASSIVE federal overreach and intrusion into the concealed weapons permit process.

The LAST people we want involved in setting concealed weapons policy are the federal government.

In fact, one of my biggest concerns about concealed carry permits — the lists of gun owners a permit process creates — should send shivers down your spine: Imagine Eric Holder and the BATFE with a national database of concealed carry permit holders.

It’s bad enough to have those lists exist at a state level. Once Eric Holder and his cronies find a way to request that list from a state, they’ll do it — all the in the name of “implementing H.R. 822.”

That possibility is enough to make any red-blooded American want to shelf H.R. 822....


Once gun owners let the Obamacrats start mandating whether states recognize permit reciprocity, they will want to mandate what it takes to get and keep those permits.

We’re talking about:

More onerous standards to acquire a permit so that only FBI agents can pass muster (look at New York’s permit system);
Higher fees;
More training requirements;
A demonstration of “Need” for a permit;
More frequent renewal periods;
Federally-mandated waiting periods;
A national database of all permit holders, accessible by Attorney General Eric Holder;
An extensive, federally-created list of Criminal Safezones, where only criminals will carry and where law-abiding gun owners are vulnerable;
The list of potential problems is endless....

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I wouldn't blame the problem on the "Obamacrats." But I do agree that once federal legislation gets a foot in the door on something like this, the bureaucratic nightmare will just snowball.

You know how Signy is always talking about the irreversible accumulation of wealth, what we're calling "gravity" in the other thread? I see the same type of accumulation with laws. Laws can't help but get bigger and bigger....



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Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Originally posted by pizmobeach:
It's late and the wording is especially, purposely government gunk, but I think the tricky part is "subsection b."

The meat of the bill starts with: "Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)"

Subsection b says: "(b) The possession or carrying of a concealed handgun in a State under this section shall be subject to the same conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State law or the law of a political subdivision of a State, that apply to the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun by residents of the State or political subdivision who are licensed by the State or political subdivision to do so, or not prohibited by the State from doing so. "

Which I believe all adds up to, "you can carry in a state that doesn't have carry laws if you come from one that does."
Geezer - I believe you worked/work in DC - maybe from osmosis you have the gift of their language.

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Bill Summary & Status
112th Congress (2011 - 2012)
H.R.822
CRS Summary

H.R.822
Latest Title: National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011
Sponsor: Rep Stearns, Cliff [FL-6] (introduced 2/18/2011) Cosponsors (245)
Related Bills: H.RES.463
Latest Major Action: 11/16/2011 Passed/agreed to in House. Status: On passage Passed by recorded vote: 272 - 154 (Roll no. 852).
House Reports: 112-277
SUMMARY AS OF:
2/18/2011--Introduced.

National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 - Amends the federal criminal code to authorize a person who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm in one state, and who is not prohibited from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm under federal law, to carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) in another state in accordance with the restrictions of that state.

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Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Essentially, all it does is say that you can carry into another state (but you must obey the laws of that state).

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If it does get made into law, places like New York City, and California will never be the same again. But in a good way.

Think on it. Families and friends will be able to visit relatives in these places, and have the tools to keep them safe.

Citizens there, will start to question why they are not allowed to protect themselves.

Everything will change, but for the better.

I guess a good example would be VA and NJ. If I carried into NJ, my pistol couldnt have more than 10 rounds, and they couldn't be hollow points. (Stupid laws, but hey... its a liberal state).

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

Some states are highly selective about who gets to carry a concealed firearm.

It is Wulf's belief that visitors from Gunstates will make the Otherstates safer, because they will be carrying concealed firearms with them on their trips to these states.

It is Wulf's belief that natives of Otherstates will resent the privileges granted to Gunstate visitors, who may have permits that are not readily available in their home state.

That Otherstate restrictions must be abided by (i.e. Can't carry into a bar. Can't carry a gun with a low melting point. Can't carry high capacity magazines) is considered inconvenient still, but the ability to carry concealed at all is considered a boon.

My own discomfort with this Bill has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with states' rights.

--Anthony

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I can tell you from personal experience that this can be a real hassle, especially when planning a road trip.

Which states have reciprocal agreements (aka when do I have to put my gun in a box the trunk of my car?)

Which states have magazine limits?

Which states have melting point 'saturday night special' laws? (What's the melting point of your firearm? Egads.)

Which states prohibit certain ammunition types?

Which states prohibit certain calibers?

If you don't want to be arrested or have your gun confiscated (probably permanently) then you have to know this before driving through the U.S. with a firearm.

I'd liken it to a driver having to research which hubcaps were legal in each state before driving through.

Now, of course not everyone takes firearms on road trips, but if you do, it is a real pain in the neck.

--Anthony

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Originally posted by pizmobeach:
And to think of all the road trips I've been on without a gun... I feel so irresponsible now.
Maybe it is me, maybe I'm in the minority. I know when I found out how many posters here owned guns I was very surprised. Still, can't help but think this only effects a very few and that there have to be more important things for congress to be working on.
Obvious this is very important to the NRA.

"I'd liken it to a driver having to research which hubcaps were legal in each state before driving through. " That's funny - haven't done that one either, I feel so bad.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

I'm a gun owner, and a sometimes carrier, but I rarely take them on road trips with me. Last time I did was in 2000, when I took a 3-week road trip from Austin to Moab and points in between. Three weeks on the road, alone, no cell phone or other communications, and not a single night spent indoors. I had a 9mm handgun, a couple magazines of ammo, and a handful of knives, all strategically placed around the car, just in case.

I tend to keep knives, clubs, and such in the cars anyway, but not guns for the most part.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I've been attacked for less. I'm glad you haven't, Pizmo, and have no Great Fear.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
I have to say, I'm not sure why this law is necessary. Utah has extreme and ridiculously strict laws about the transport of fireworks and alcohol and guns into the state (Mormons) even though gun control IN the state is pretty lax. But that's never stopped people from smuggling them in from Colorado. And while the cops will border camp looking for smugglers, it really isn't that well enforced.

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