Sickening by pizmobeach

America loves a winner!

It's the 'management' level decision to carry out such crowd control tactics which need to be addressed. Curse at and vilify the guy in uniform all you want, but he's being directed to carry out this order. Whether he's happily going along, or indifferent, isn't the big issue here. This is " department policy ' that he's following.

On the flip side, would you prefer billy clubs and water cannons? Attack dogs ? If folks aren't there legally, then I don't see how they can whine too much about how they're forcibly dispersed. Go means go. Period. Not being able to camp out indefinitely and interrupt other's lives isn't a violation of free speech. You have a right to have your vocie heard, but not to be an asshole.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 5:08 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Ahhh, you saw that too. I was JUST about to post it, but 'ya beat me to it. Pretty amazing, isn't it? In this day and age, with camers everywhere, you'd think...

But then of course not. Here's the view I was going to post:

Catch the "explanation" and a better video here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/20/us/california-occupy-pepperspray/index.h
tml?hpt=hp_t1

Really cute: "We were worried about their safety..." and the rest of the bullshit excuses Mayor, etc., have decided to use.

Amazing, isn't he (Raptor)? Just amazing, unless like me, you believe he's here ONLY to piss people off. I really can't find any other reasonable explanation...the "dimentia" thing only goes so far. I admit it might be true, but my gawd, if it is...there are no words!

Just to clarify; I don't think it's orders from "on high"; TPTB don't want the bad publicity, and it always comes out. Or maybe it is; there are investigations and cops are "punished" (if you want to call it that), but the casual way these cops go after people seems more like "interpreting" their orders than having been told to pepper spray a line of sitting protesters... I could certainly be wrong, I'm still a neophite to today's protests.

Cops are accustomed to being the power, and there are always cops who will abuse that power. The FLOURISH with which he started and his calmness and THOROUGHNESS of the spraying say to me that he's used to his power being uncontested and has no compunction about what he's doing.

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 5:20 AM

America loves a winner!

So Niki, what do you call it when everyone who disagrees with you suffers from ' dementia' ?

I do not believe that word means what you think it means.

Do you agree or not that this action is 'dept. policy', and not just some dick head cop being a dick head cop? Of course, they're all dick heads, right ? Whether they wear suits or uniforms. Right.

What about the use of clubs or dogs ? Is pepper spray a better alternative ? Same as ? Worse ?

Understand, I'm not advocating the use of ANY, just laying out the limited options the cops have in situations like these. Lord knows, we don't want them going Kent State over something like this.... ( but maybe someone DOES ? )

Aside from that, why can't the police depts and the mayors just 'ignore' the OWS gangs ? Because they're causing a disturbance, for one. They're disrupting businesses, creating trash, spreading disease, and acting as a haven for violence and criminal activity. Even if they're not themselves the ones involved, they're still creating an atmosphere for it. And the TAX PAYING constituents are getting fed up with it all. Have been, for quite some time, actually. And so you see the inevitable crack down.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:22 AM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Amazing, isn't he (Raptor)? Just amazing, unless like me, you believe he's here ONLY to piss people off. I really can't find any other reasonable explanation...the "dimentia" thing only goes so far. I admit it might be true, but my gawd, if it is...there are no words!

I really wish when you say you are going to ignore AURaptor - that we all should - you would actually do it. That means not insulting him because you disagree vehemently with him (or anyone) - that just never helps.

Thanks!

There are certainly good and bad cops like there is in any profession - trouble is when they are bad they're in a position to be really bad.

The problem in this case is in the orders and the interpretation of those orders. Cops in this case could heave easily walked around these protestors. Or they could have cuffed them and picked them up which they ended up doing anyway.

I agree with your statement on another thread - this kind of action is only bad for the cops and mayors and good for OWS.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:33 AM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

It's the 'management' level decision to carry out such crowd control tactics which need to be addressed. Curse at and vilify the guy in uniform all you want, but he's being directed to carry out this order. Whether he's happily going along, or indifferent, isn't the big issue here. This is " department policy ' that he's following.

I have no idea what the mayors directives were. They may be as simple as "clear the park." This guy... he took way too much pleasure and showed way too much indifference. His actions were unnecessary to gain the result they were looking for. It has been demonstrated many times that pepper spraying a crowd does not reduce the numbers of protestors - it may do so in the short term, but in the long term it in fact has the opposite result - it strengthens their resolve and increases their numbers.

You talk about the costs of the protests and I think that's a bit weak. Start issuing fines then for clearing the garbage, whatever, but how much do you think these lawsuits are going to cost? Maybe it's just the price of having a city? Sometimes you have protests.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

On the flip side, would you prefer billy clubs and water cannons? Attack dogs ? If folks aren't there legally, then I don't see how they can whine too much about how they're forcibly dispersed. Go means go. Period. Not being able to camp out indefinitely and interrupt other's lives isn't a violation of free speech. You have a right to have your vocie heard, but not to be an asshole.

That's not the flip side, that's just another violent alternative that will fail.
"Go means go. Period." Great, but this is not working, this is not achieving that goal or addressing the root issues. Time for some people to think a little different than, "see person, hit person, fail."

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:40 AM

America loves a winner!

Just curious, but what part of repeatedly being asked to leave do the OWS folks not understand ?

Quote:
Cops in this case could heave easily walked around these protestors. Or they could have cuffed them and picked them up which they ended up doing anyway.

The organizers know what they're doing. Their intent is to so overwhelm the police that they'll simply let the mob do what ever the hell it wants. And that's the problem. Protesting is one thing, but blocking traffic, camping out, and interfering with the daily lives of a community crosses the line from free speech, and becomes a public nuisance.

And no, this isn't some hair brained Glenn Beck conspiracy, but what comes directly from the organizers of this nonsense. They WANT to crash our system. It's been their goal for decades, regardless of how much their useful idiots know or want to believe that fact.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:40 AM

America loves a winner!

mystery double post.

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:45 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Pizmo, I'm sorry my choice of how to deal with Raptor is unpleasant to you. I have said that I will provide facts refuting his more outrageous claims, and I will continue to speak up about why I believe he is really here. That's my stance. I ignore him insofar as not to get drawn into one of his little games of provoking people, but I'll not ignore him completely. Just most of the time.

If there ever comes a time when he can't manage to provoke people and turn threads into the fights he so adores, I will ignore him. If even the majority of us recognize his game and decide not to respond or let themselves be provoked, there will be no need for me to recognize him at all. Until then, this is my position. So no, I'm not "ignoring" him, I'm reminding people of why he's here and mocking him, and will clarify his lies--ONCE--when I see them.

I hear what you're saying and understand how you feel. I hope you can understand how I feel and accept that I have the right to deal with him as I choose; I think it's better than Story and Mike's consistent attacks, and Mike and Nick (and until now, Anthony's) and others' willingness to engage him over and over. It's my own "middle ground", and I think far less offensive than the way he and his ilk deal with and HAVE dealt with me and others in the past, so all I can say is, respectfully, if it offends you, there is no need for you to read my posts.

As to the issue at hand, I think it is probably a combination of the two; since the mayors had their "conference call", violence by police has escalated, so I think it's clear that they've made a decision among themselves. It's a short-sighted decision, in my opinion, and a wrong one. As well, tho', I think those police who have grown so fat and are so used to being in power and pushing people around with impunity are going to have a hard time accepting that they need to deal with people exercising their freedom of speech in ways other than weilding their power with no constraints. Or not. These things take a very long time, and we're willing to put our bodies, as Savio said, on the cogs of the machine's wheels for as long as it takes.

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:51 AM

HKCAVALIER

(edit: crossposted with you and Pizmo)

Hey Niki,

Actually, it's pretty clear to me that the police brutality absolutely serves TPTB in that it changes the subject. Whether it's planned or simply some sort of instinctual self-sacrifice on the part of the cops to shield their masters and focus the anger of OWS on themselves, I dunno. The effect is the same. The specifics of OWS have been forgotten and we're talking about Kent State, etc. What does Kent State have to do with corporate personhood? Not a gorram thing. And that's the point.

Now, of course, the brutality's effectiveness as a distraction has a short shelf life. It only works if it motivates folks to stay home. But so far, it's only fueled and galvanized the movement to keep on coming. The sad thing about that is that the actions of the cops serve both TPTB and the protestors by turns, leaving the cops, not unlike the soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan, looking like "the bad guy."

P.S.: Um. This new talking to AURaptor while pretending not to thing just makes you look bad. Coy, passive agressive, etc. I suspect that everyone who's gonna get your point has already gotten it and we're all just waitin' for you to move on to a new topic. Just sayin'. You've always got a lot of very good things to say, otherwise.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:58 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
P.S.: Um. This new talking to AURaptor while pretending not to thing just makes you look bad. Coy, passive agressive, etc. I suspect that everyone who's gonna get your point has already gotten it and we're all just waitin' for you to move on to a new topic. Just sayin'. You've always got a lot of very good things to say, otherwise.

Yeah, well, we all know, the girl can't help it.

But seriously, this " violence " by the police ? Don't be fooled. This is exactly what the OWS gang wants. In fact, I'm sure many of the puppet masters are beside themselves that it's taken THIS long, and so little actual cop violence has taken place.

This is nothing more than the " Don't tase me bro, DON'T TASE ME! " antics of an group of attention seeking , spoiled brat whiners.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 7:06 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Here you can see the children who slam wooden cylinders into triangular holes, hammering them home with a wooden block.

In any situation, there are a plethora of options, a multitude of possible solutions to a potential problem. We are witnessing a twofold failure.

1)Rather than carefully consider the problem, the administration is abdicating their responsibility by handing off the decision-making process to thugs. They feel (wrongly) that they can later distance themselves from the actions of the thugs if necessary, while simultaneously knowing the likely result of putting monkeys in charge of themselves.

2) The thugs (police/security forces) are failing to study the situation to find the best result for everyone involved. Instead, they are brooking no resistance or defiance, and slamming the cylinder through the triangular hole. The problem is that the cylinder is no longer an insensate polyhedral block, but a human being. No matter. Slam, slam, slam.

Neither position is particularly forgivable. None of these people deserve to hold their positions if this is the best they could come up with.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 10:02 AM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Just curious, but what part of repeatedly being asked to leave do the OWS folks not understand ?

That would be the "disobedient" part of civil disobedience. It has it's risks, but they feel strongly enough to take them. The cops/city managers could and have used alternative ways to achieve their goals - unless their goals are to inflict pain and gain the OWS sympathy.

Again: "Cops in this case could heave easily walked around these protestors. Or they could have cuffed them and picked them up which they ended up doing anyway."

So maybe HK is right? "Who's our least popular officier who could use some desk duty? Tell him we need him to take one for the team."

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The organizers know what they're doing. Their intent is to so overwhelm the police that they'll simply let the mob do what ever the hell it wants. And that's the problem. Protesting is one thing, but blocking traffic, camping out, and interfering with the daily lives of a community crosses the line from free speech, and becomes a public nuance.

And no, this isn't some hair brained Glenn Beck conspiracy, but what comes directly from the organizers of this nonsense. They WANT to crash our system. It's been their goal for decades, regardless of how much their useful idiots know or want to believe that fact.

You're right, that's their goal - so why do the cops fall into their trap? I still don't know what they want or who they are - for being 99% of us they remain a mystery to me, that is their great failing so far imho and why I can't get behind them at this point even though I agree with many of their ideals. For absolutely sure though, right now they are 99% more appealing than their opponents.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 10:05 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Anthony, you nailed it perfectly. You're not hearing the whole story by a long shot, and spending a lot of a city's meager resources (and Oakland has SERIOUS problems every day, as I've said, and severe budget cuts) to send out MORE COPS THAN THERE WERE OCCUPIERS is patently ridiculous (and yes, there were in Oakland). Dan Siegel, the legal advisor to Oakland's mayor Quan who quit over the OPD's treatment of the occupiers (so did her vice mayor, by the way), said some interesting things:

Quote:
...beyond just the politics of "whose side are you on?", to me, it seems like just a totally useless and futile activity to spend millions of dollars to take people out of tents, to create situations where there was bloodshed in our streets and lots of chaos for days, because they're going to come back. This is a movement that can't be stopped.

I think the first thing is that the people in City Hall have to get to know the protesters. I spent many, many hours with them at the General Assemblies and other activities, and the vast majority of them are reasonable, intelligent, thoughtful and tolerant people and I believe that, if there had been more of an effort on the part of the city government to actually get to know them, go to the General Assemblies, wait for their turn and speak to the people, they would have been successful in persuading the occupiers to meet the City's demands in terms of making sure the park was cleaned and the sanitation was maintained, and that the police and fire departments would be allowed access when it was necessary for them to come in. But I think there was just an attitude that got created very early on of people stereotyping each other, and I think that's what created the problem.

What few hear is that the occupiers DID make an effort to set up medical services (some of which were attacked as well), libraries like that which was trashed in New York, to feed people--one of our people was caught up in the Oakland mess because she'd gone over there to take food supplies and help cook and clean up afterwards, which many were doing.

A few porta-potties, which the larger encampments like Oakland and New York could afford to pay for, would have gone a long way. They were feeding the homeless, they had volunteer doctors, nurses and other medical and psychiatric personnel there to try to help them and provide services for the homeless, and they were policing the area themselves. The police couldn't have stopped that shooting, and one of the Occupy Oakland security personnel was pulled into an alley by the cops and beaten. There's so much you don't hear about regarding how they are trying to take are of themselves, to be a minimum burden on the city; you only hear the names they call us, buzz words which have been put out and picked up by detractors, which are repeated over and over again as if they were true.

Cav, I think we'll find over time that the violence ends up having the opposite effect of what they want. Considering the immense violence and crackdowns that have taken place across the Middle East recently, have those convinced people to stay at home? Only time will tell, but thus far, it hasn't had the effect they've wished for.

On the other subject: I hear you.

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:07 AM

HERO

Don't see the problem with the cop spraying the protectors. It's kinda what they wanted. If they did not want the cops to move them they could simply have moved themselves.

Failing to obey a lawful order then complaining that your being abused is intellectually dishonest. Was this brutality? No.

I suppose it could have been different:

"excuse me young people, you are blocking the sidewalk. Would you kindly move to the side?"

"why certainly officer, we apologize for getting in the way.".

But while I think the cops are capable f asking nicely, somehow I doubt the protectors would comply.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

One or Eleven.

I feel sorry for all the numbers in between.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 3:45 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Protesting is one thing, but blocking traffic, camping out, and interfering with the daily lives of a community crosses the line from free speech, and becomes a public nuance.

Classic. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 4:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
A few porta-potties, which the larger encampments like Oakland and New York could afford to pay for, would have gone a long way. They were feeding the homeless, they had volunteer doctors, nurses and other medical and psychiatric personnel there to try to help them and provide services for the homeless, and they were policing the area themselves. The police couldn't have stopped that shooting, and one of the Occupy Oakland security personnel was pulled into an alley by the cops and beaten. There's so much you don't hear about regarding how they are trying to take are of themselves, to be a minimum burden on the city; you only hear the names they call us, buzz words which have been put out and picked up by detractors, which are repeated over and over again as if they were true.

Yeah, there were some 'words' over that - preventing shit like that is one of the primary purposes of the security personnel, protest marshals or "cat herders" as I like to call them.
And it shows ever so clearly the true colors of your so-called protectors that they act in such a predatory fashion, indeed.

Oh, and point on the rest of it, you ever wonder just how puts together the necessary organisation to do those things, Niki ?
I mean it's fairly spontaneous, but it tends to coagulate around certain people who just have a knack for that sort of thing, and while there's some involved risk for any one of em to step out in front and take charge, THOSE people, those lightning rods, as I call em, are your best bet for getting an actual cohesion to things I think it's long past time for - just as a suggestion.

And regarding the cat-herder that got hauled off into the darkness and stomped - one reason Gus and company have been begging me every friggin DAY to go down there is that despite age and hard living having caught up with me pretty hard, and the fact that they probably *could* dish a stomping on me... not all of THEM would walk away from it neither, which is a deterrent of it's own kind as well.

I will not go, however, till the OWS people make certain decisions I feel critical about the end points of their intentions.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 4:51 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Why all of these mayors can't simply ignore these protestors is beyond me.

They've tried that here in D.C. Been very cooperative with the Occupy folks in permitting them to camp in public parks and demonstrate, despite complaints from businesses around McPherson Square, where their camp is set up.

Of course, there's not too many OWS folks here - a few hundred - and they've been pretty well behaved aside from an allied group that took over an abandoned city building and had to be removed.

I can imagine that cities with larger OWS groups doing more civil disobedience are getting a lot more static from citizens who want to be able to get around or go to work without having to dodge or get caught in demonstrations. When demonstrators cause major disruptions in traffic or business, the city administrations will have to do something, since they have to answer to folks trying to work as well as the demonstrators.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:17 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
"excuse me young people, you are blocking the sidewalk. Would you kindly move to the side?"

"why certainly officer, we apologize for getting in the way.".

But while I think the cops are capable of asking nicely, somehow I doubt the protectors would comply.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

The cops DID ask, repeatedly, but to no avail. The OWS gang WANTS confrontation. Merely camping out isn't getting them the support and attention they want, so they're upping the ante.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, November 20, 2011 6:23 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Protesting is one thing, but blocking traffic, camping out, and interfering with the daily lives of a community crosses the line from free speech, and becomes a public nuance.

Classic. I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Nuisance ? Yeah, it means exactly what I thought it does. Originally mistyped, leaving out " is " and butchered the word. I know you've never had a typo before, but maybe, one day.....

But I can see how you'd be amused. Being a 12 yr old and all. It's funny to harp on other's human errors, when you yourself have NEVER made any errors, at all.... oh, wait. Never mind.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Monday, November 21, 2011 4:31 AM

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Why all of these mayors can't simply ignore these protestors is beyond me.

They've tried that here in D.C. Been very cooperative with the Occupy folks in permitting them to camp in public parks and demonstrate, despite complaints from businesses around McPherson Square, where their camp is set up.

Of course, there's not too many OWS folks here - a few hundred - and they've been pretty well behaved aside from an allied group that took over an abandoned city building and had to be removed.

Obama's influence? (Hey, it's Troublemaker Monday) That actually sounds like a fairly large enough group to be a decent sample size - maybe should be seen as a precedent.

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I can imagine that cities with larger OWS groups doing more civil disobedience are getting a lot more static from citizens who want to be able to get around or go to work without having to dodge or get caught in demonstrations. When demonstrators cause major disruptions in traffic or business, the city administrations will have to do something, since they have to answer to folks trying to work as well as the demonstrators.

I've not read that they are causing that much disruption to public transportation, not beyond the usual big city congestion. Speaking for myself, I am ok with a little disruption for their free speech.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, November 21, 2011 4:53 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
The cops DID ask, repeatedly, but to no avail. The OWS gang WANTS confrontation. Merely camping out isn't getting them the support and attention they want, so they're upping the ante.

Um, WHO is upping the ante? Far as I can tell, it's the situation that's changed, not the actual behaviour or activity of the protesters.

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Monday, November 21, 2011 5:48 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yup, Byte, I'm glad you noticed. Up until the time the camps started gettin raided, I'll bet nobody noticed that there WAS little or nothing else; no marches, demonstrations, etc. Now that the camps are being attacked, they're on the move. Expect more "actions" around the nation. The "ante" has been "upped" FOR us, so you're right--the situation has changed. Now there'll be more "actions" in most all of the Occupy groups.

I'm surprised DC has so few; THAT's where the action SHOULD be, in my opinion. It's the politicians who have made it possible...nay, ENCOURAGED...Wall Street, the banks, etc., to push their greed just as far as they can. Even over legal boundaries, if you recall. They're the ones I think we should be going after, not Wall Street, where essentially we have no influence beyond putting our bodies on the wheel. I've never understood that.

Hero, no, they didn't "want" to be pepper spray. Time was, a line of sitting people, or "sit-ins" (remember those?) were REMOVED...I don't recall much pepper spraying in the movements in which I was involved. It's a different time in America...not a good one. Yes, billy clubs, etc. were used in the past, but usually only on disruptive groups, not on peaceful demonstrations, for the most part.

Frem, don't you DARE go down there!! My imagination runs wild at what they could do to you, given they've attacked 80 year olds, people in wheelchairs, children, etc. You do your background thing; that's what you're best at, and that's where you'll be needed eventually, if you join us. You're far too precious to put in harm's way. You have the expertise; you can train people, advise people, even in your own part of the world, and we'll need all of that. They're already having a lot of training (even here) for how to deal with police attacks, now to keep the rowdy (and mentally ill) from disrupting GAs, how to keep things as peaceful as possible, etc.

Pizmo, again, until the cops moved in, disruption in traffic was something most tried to avoid. Aside from the march on Wall Street and a few others. Now Critical Mass has joined in at numerous cities (the guys with the bicycles), and there is/will be much more "taking to the streets". Hell, people get gassed, sprayed and shot for sitting quietly, so why not act out?

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Monday, November 21, 2011 7:47 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

This is what cops do to assassins of Dictator Hussein Obama Soetoro:

Police send tanks attack OWS protesters assassinating 'Obama zombie', jewish OWS assassin has 'ISRAEL' tatooed on neck (false flag patsy)
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=50235

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Monday, November 21, 2011 8:28 AM

Niki, Gus and Malek had something of a screaming row about that very thing this morning, Gus seems to think that me and my bullygirls being there will cause the DPD to wuss out and not aggress on the protestors, and Malek feels that it would not only not deter them, but might provoke them and then "God only knows!", since even if I personally held my cool my people would go freakin berserk.

The LAST goddamn thing OccupyDetroit needs is an all-hands firefight on the streets...
I'll not be the cause of that, especially since me and mine know full well that once lead gets exchanged with the boys in blue you might as well save the last round for yourself, and as a result would go for maximum carnage.

That's the kind of thing OWS is hoping to *avoid* having to happen (although I feel it's almost inevitable) and I have a moral obligation not to sabotage what might have a slim chance of working a peaceful resolution by throwing the political equivalent of a molotov cocktail into the works.

Maleks a smart cracker for a preacherman, if perhaps a little ambigous morally and less clever than he thinks - as if I didn't know where the booze Alice is plying me with here came from...
So I'll play along and get vaguely plastered and stay home, sure.

For now.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, November 21, 2011 12:52 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Can't help giggling at this: John Pike, the guy pepper-spraying those demonstrators, is now photoshopped into tons of pictures on the web. Some of them are interesting:

I'm not sure what the message is they're trying to portray (I mean, the Lollipop Guild??), or even if there IS one, but gawd bless social media...or something...

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Monday, November 21, 2011 4:32 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

This is nothing more than the " Don't tase me bro, DON'T TASE ME! " antics of an group of attention seeking , spoiled brat whiners.

Dementia. See?
No.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, November 21, 2011 5:42 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Obama's influence? (Hey, it's Troublemaker Monday) That actually sounds like a fairly large enough group to be a decent sample size - maybe should be seen as a precedent.

D.C. is used to massive demonstrations and crowds, from the March on Washington in the '60s to the Million Man and Million Mom Marches, to IMF and G20 demonstrations, to the Obama inauguration, and more every year. A few hundred folks who are reasonably civil isn't a problem for the D.C. cops, Park Service, and local FPS. The only issues here were when the OWS folks tried to blockade a conservative meeting at the Convention Center, and the attempt to occupy a vacant city building.

I'm still afraid that the more confrontational tactics used in other cities are going to move the focus to "demonstrators vs. police" rather than on the issues the demonstrators are trying to raise.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, November 21, 2011 6:42 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Can't help giggling at this: John Pike, the guy pepper-spraying those demonstrators, is now photoshopped into tons of pictures on the web. Some of them are interesting:

I'm not sure what the message is they're trying to portray (I mean, the Lollipop Guild??), or even if there IS one, but gawd bless social media...or something...

And to think, some would call that worthless pile of fat a "pig"; how very insulting to swine everywhere!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 21, 2011 7:00 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

This is nothing more than the " Don't tase me bro, DON'T TASE ME! " antics of an group of attention seeking , spoiled brat whiners.

Dementia. See?
No.

Nope. Don't see it.

Catch phrase!

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Frem, don't you DARE go down there!! My imagination runs wild at what they could do to you, given they've attacked 80 year olds, people in wheelchairs, children, etc. You do your background thing; that's what you're best at, and that's where you'll be needed eventually, if you join us. You're far too precious to put in harm's way. You have the expertise; you can train people, advise people, even in your own part of the world, and we'll need all of that. They're already having a lot of training (even here) for how to deal with police attacks, now to keep the rowdy (and mentally ill) from disrupting GAs, how to keep things as peaceful as possible, etc.

Looks like you get your wish...
I wasn't ever so concerned about myself as my own peoples reaction, so I tried to sneak out this morning and slip down there incognito only to run into Echo who proceeded to then push me around and take my car keys, and Wendy stole my glasses so I can't see a damn thing past three feet, argh.
It's nice that they care, but being stuck on virtual house arrest by my own people...
et tu, brutus ?!!

-F

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Tuesday, November 22, 2011 5:25 AM

BYTEMITE

Next thing you know, they'll be inviting you in for Thanksgiving dinner.

*shakes fist at sky*

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Tuesday, November 22, 2011 4:33 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Sounds like your crew really cares about you Frem. What are you guys all doing for Thanksgiving anyway?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, November 22, 2011 5:56 PM

I am "helping" (as in doing it FOR her since she'd burn the house down) my ex and her new beau cook T-dinner and then having it with them, since I am kind of ad-hoc brother in law it seems.

Wendy and some of my crew will be over at Alice's cause she misses her original kids bad on the holidays and a lotta mine don't have relatives, or none they care for - I stay away cause my presence is kind of a downer and reminder of bad memories for some of em, particularly Alice.

-F

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Tuesday, November 22, 2011 9:24 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Sounds like a plan. I thought your favorite ex was married now, this must be a different ex. I think they'll like your turkey, turkies are tempermental to cook. I'm glad Wendy will be with other people for Thanksgiving, and, yes, I'm glad you will be too. I'll be at my uncle and aunt's house nearby, with my dad, my grandma, another uncle, another aunt, and some cousins, only one of my favorite cousins will be there but that's better than none of my favorites.

What are the rest of you doing?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, November 23, 2011 6:22 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Just doin' what we usually do, and a Thursday dinner...with a great big turkey. We don't really celebrate holidays anymore; at our age they've kind of worn thin, what with no family and all. Jim's kids usually get together with his ex, and Choey is going over to spend it with her boyfriend. Jim took the whole week off, which is NEAT for both me and the dogs (who adore him)--eleven whole days! It's a harbinger of things to come, since he's given notice for Jan. 6, much to my delight.

Friday we've got an "action"; individually going around to local businesses and talking to them about various things and demonstrating to "shop locally".

Frem, give 'em a pat on the back and tell 'em "good job!" Glad you've got folk around you to keep you from doing (most) stupid things, since we can't!

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Wednesday, November 23, 2011 7:56 AM

Oh same ex, her new beau, as I said - who can cook, but being canadian-japanese his culinary skills tend to be more eastern leaning, versus my southron-american heritage gives me the edge there...

It was HILARIOUS when I was over there making southern style hash browns (cooked in bacon grease) and he said it was practically attacking his arteries through his pores and stood out on the porch glaring at me, lol.

-F

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Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:06 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hee, hee, hee...Jim and I had that exact reaction when Jo cooked what she called a "roast". The thing was almost 50% fat, and she cooked it in grease, and we just couldn't LOOK at it, much less eat the damned thing! Even cutting off all the fat, the first greasy bite made us want to barf!

I looked it up, and found that it is theorized that, because the weather is so cold in Britain, they are genetically conditioned to eat more fat. But what you Southerner's excuse is, I can't imagine!

Do you deep-fat-fry your turkeys, too? First time I heard of that I nearly fell over, but apparently every Thanksgiving people do it (or try it and burn their houses down!)

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Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:10 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I am informed by those who indulge in the practice that deep fried turkey tastes delicious.

I'm dubious about acquiring the whole apparatus just for one dish.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, November 23, 2011 4:19 PM