REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Black Friday shoppers...or not!

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 06:50
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Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just noticed a CNN poll asking whether people shopped in stores, on line or not at all on Black Friday. An astonishing 80% answered "not at all"! Eleven percent said in stores, nine percent on line. I think that probably represents that CNN readers are less into this kind of thing, as I think you'd get a different answer if asked elsewhere, but it still surprised me.

Would be nice to think it was a trend, but I'm not quite THAT stupid...

Gee, and here I thought it was just us "bums, druggies and hippies" who caused trouble...huh!

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Then there's this:
Quote:

An Arizona police department will conduct an investigation into the bloody arrest of a 54-year-old grandfather during a Black Friday sale at a Walmart, an assistant police chief said Saturday.

Jerald Newman, 54, was released Saturday from a Maricopa County jail, his wife, Pamela, told CNN. He has been charged with resisting arrest and shoplifting.

"(He is) as good as expected ... but he is emotionally and mentally a wreck," she said.

Newman was among a throng of shoppers crammed into a Buckeye, Arizona, Walmart soon after it opened late the night of Thanksgiving.

"They were just letting people in; there was nowhere to walk," said his daughter, Berneta Sanchez, who was also in the store. "Teenagers and adults were fighting for these games, taking them away from little kids and away from my father."

The suspect's grandson, Nicholas Nava, told CNN affiliate KNXV that Newman had grabbed one video game and put it under his shirt so that others jostling for the game didn't take it from him. One person alerted a police officer, who then approached Newman.

David Chadd, a CNN iReporter from Las Vegas, was among the crowd shopping for video games set up in the Walmart's grocery section. He said Newman "was not resisting" arrest as he was led away from the crowd by a police officer.

That officer, Chadd said, then suddenly hooked the suspect around the leg, grabbed him and "slammed him face first into the ground."

"It was like a bowling ball hitting the ground, that's how bad it was," he said.

Video, recorded by Chadd and later posted on CNN's iReport, shows an apparently unconscious Newman head-down on the floor in a pool of blood. As he's turned over, Buckeye police officers appear to try to revive him -- at which point his face, covered mostly in blood, is revealed.

Several voices, apparently those of fellow shoppers, are heard saying, "Why would you throw him down so hard? All he did was shoplifting and you threw him down like that?" Another person says, "They threw him down. He wasn't doing anything wrong."

Two citizens then appear to come to Newman's aid by applying paper towels to the man's nose. Chadd estimated Newman was knocked out for about 10 minutes, all the while gushing blood and handcuffed.

Buckeye Assistant Police Chief Larry Hall said Saturday that Newman's case is "basically in the court's hands right now, as far as the resisting arrest and shoplifting goes."

The department will conduct an investigation to assess whether the actions of the police officer involved in the arrest were "within reason," based on "our policy and also the law." He said that probe would happen soon, adding it was "days away."

"We may have an independent agency conduct the inquiry, just to show transparency," Hall said.

As to the criminal charges, Todd Nolan -- the attorney representing Newman -- said his office will conduct discovery procedures Monday with police "to gather evidence proving my client is innocent."

The suspect himself plans to speak to the media later next week, his lawyer said.

Walmart spokeswoman Ashley Hardie said the retail giant was aware of the incident.

"We are concerned whenever there is an incident involving a customer at one of our stores," Hardie said. "We are in contact with the local police and are sharing any information we have with them."

Sanchez described her father as "a really nice man," saying he is a custom furniture maker who preaches through the California prison system. He has raised his grandson from birth and, even while in the hospital, Sanchez said the boy was her father's chief concern.

Whatever happens, Sanchez vowed that next year she won't be shopping in the wee hours of the Friday morning after Thanksgiving.

"I will never leave my house again on Black Friday, because I don't want to put my daughter through that again," she said, noting her daughter was there to see police standing over her bloody grandfather. "I'd rather stay home. And if they have Black Friday, they need more security." http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/26/justice/arizona-walmart-arrest/index.htm
l
are no words. the bastards.

(There's another of your trickle-down-tyranny episodes, Frem)



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Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:23 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Yet Black Friday sales were apparently up 7% over last year, and, at $11.4 billion, were the largest ever.

http://wtop.com/?nid=628&sid=2647350

BTW, it'd be interesting to see how many folks shop on an average, non-Black Friday, shopping day. Bet it's a lot less than 20%.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, yeah, right. And there's no difference between a regular day and Black Friday. There's monstrous hype, people camping out for days waiting for the doors to open, mayhem and pepper spraying every day, too.
Quote:

at $11.4 billion, were the largest ever
I wonder how much that is in inflationary dollars? Kinda like there's a new "largest grossing movie ever" each year.

I guess the economy's recovered now, and everything's fine. You betcha.



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Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:49 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
There are no words. the bastards.

(There's another of your trickle-down-tyranny episodes, Frem)

I'm with ya, Niki. *(&%^%^#%! Bastards.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Want one of your own? Or how about a nice little rocket launcher?



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Sunday, November 27, 2011 7:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


More trickle-down-tyranny:
Quote:

rc317sg shot this video of a Black Friday shopper at a Walmart in Southington, CT, being tasered by police. 'It was unclear from my position what exactly happened with the man and why he was being detained, however, you could hear bystanders yelling things like, "stop!" "That's not necessary!"' he said. 'This was my first Black Friday shopping experience, and I'll never forget what I saw. You see sides of people that they, themselves, didn't even know existed.'
Video at http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-708561?hpt=hp_bn2

Note shoppers going on about their buying and store employees keeping them away. What a wonderful country we live in! And
Quote:

Violence marred Black Friday shopping in at least seven states, including California, where police say a woman doused fellow shoppers with pepper spray in a bid to snag a discounted video game console.
....
Incidents also occurred in South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, New York, Alabama and Connecticut, with most of the reported incidents happening at or near Walmart stores.
.....
While no deaths were reported in this year's shopping, authorities said they handled fights, shootings and other incidents through the morning.

Psychologist Jeff Gardere, in an appearance Friday on CNN, put some of the blame on retailers for staging sales that encourage hyper-competitive behavior among shoppers who may be desperate because of the poor economy.

"They shouldn't be psyching them up so much and using all sorts of psychological tactics to get them to feed into this desperation and competitive spirit," he said.

"I think people are whipped into a frenzy, physically, psychologically," he said.

In San Leandro, California, police had one man in custody and another was hospitalized after a 1:45 a.m. shooting in a Walmart parking lot.

"It was a robbery gone bad," police Sgt. Mike Sobek told reporters. "The victim's family fought with the robbers. They were able to detain one suspect. We are not sure if that suspect is the shooter, but we do have one person in custody right now."

In Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, police said two people suffered injuries in an apparent armed robbery attempt after they left a Walmart store around 1 a.m. Friday, CNN affiliate WMBF reported.

Would-be robbers struck a man on the head and shot a woman in the leg before another shopper displayed a gun and the assailants fled, the station said, citing Myrtle Beach Police Capt. Kevin Heins. The woman was taken to a hospital for treatment, he said.

Sheriff's deputies in Fayetteville, North Carolina, were looking for two men after shots were fired about 2 a.m. at a shopping mall.

And in Kinston, North Carolina, an off-duty officer working security at a Walmart sprayed shoppers with pepper spray in an effort to stop a disturbance there, WITN reported, citing police Sgt. Roland Davis.

Customer Angel Bunting told the station it happened while people were waiting to buy discount cell phones and a man fell into a display. She said she thought security believed there was a fight, according to WITN.

Police arrested a man in a Kissimmee, Florida, Walmart on a resisting arrest charge after an early morning altercation at the jewelry counter, according to the police department.

In Rome, New York, a brawl broke out in the electronics department at a Walmart moments after midnight, CNN affiliate WSTM reported, citing the Oneida County Sheriff's Office. Two people were taken to the hospital for treatment of minor injuries, the station reported.

Police in Florence, Alabama, said they had to use a stun gun -- twice -- on a Walmart customer, CNN affiliate WAFF reported. The 22-year-old man was charged with public intoxication, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest around 11 p.m. Thursday, an hour after the store opened its doors for Black Friday, WAFF reported, citing police.

A picture of the incident distributed on Twitter shows the man lying face down in an aisle, the officer atop him with a knee on his back.

And in Southington, Connecticut, iReporter Ryan Casale said he witnessed police using a stun gun on a man at the Walmart store where he was shopping. He said he wasn't sure what was happening or why, but said the event left an impression on him. http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/25/business/money-black-friday-incidents/in
dex.html?hpt=hp_bn2
, consumerism! America at its best... Gawd bless Walmart. What WOULD we do without them?




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Sunday, November 27, 2011 7:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



" trickle down tyranny " = another phony, nonsensical phrase the Left has made up, which has no real meaning, but sounds oh so inspired.

Please.

Folks are getting shot at, beaten, shoved, by THUGS , and the cops are in way over their heads, trying to keep order here. I have no idea what in the hell 'trickle down tyranny' is even suppose to mean, but once again, one must suspend reality in order to relate to understand the mind of a left wing zealot.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:27 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


http://search.barnesandnoble.com/w/trickle-down-tyranny-michael-savage
/1103167952


Hello Niki,

Just to let you know, Trickle Down Tyranny will soon be on the lips of conservatives everywhere. Michael Savage and his 10 million strong listener base will herald the phrase.


--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Thing is, this is what the stores who pull this shit WANTED, chaos, carnage, scandal - and the free media attention/advertisement that comes with it.

I've no intention of giving that to them.

-F

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:14 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Oh, yeah, right. And there's no difference between a regular day and Black Friday.



No, Niki. There is a difference. A lot more people are going shopping. Considering that a lot of folks don't get the day after Thanksgiving off, 20% of the population shopping, and 11% actually going out to stores, is a pretty big number.

Actually, per this CNN article, it's 23% and is higher than in past years. http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/25/news/economy/black_friday_poll/index.h
tm


Also looks like fewer folks are planning on spending less than last year.

All in all, seems to be starting off as a pretty good holiday season for retailers.

Why do you want to make it out as a failure?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 11:25 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Oh, yeah, right. And there's no difference between a regular day and Black Friday.



No, Niki. There is a difference. A lot more people are going shopping. Considering that a lot of folks don't get the day after Thanksgiving off, 20% of the population shopping, and 11% actually going out to stores, is a pretty big number.

Actually, per this CNN article, it's 23% and is higher than in past years. http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/25/news/economy/black_friday_poll/index.h
tm


Also looks like fewer folks are planning on spending less than last year.

All in all, seems to be starting off as a pretty good holiday season for retailers.

Why do you want to make it out as a failure?

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Which begs the question, why do YOU want to paint rampant consumerism and a disposable economy as some kind of great victory?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 12:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Thing is, this is what the stores who pull this shit WANTED, chaos, carnage, scandal - and the free media attention/advertisement that comes with it.

I've no intention of giving that to them.

-F



So, you're saying that the BestBuy I drove past, with the outside, big screen showing of Harry Potter actually WANTED there to be riots, gun play, shoving, and chaos, in order to attract MORE customers ?

Looked to me like there were plenty of folks there already. Your hypothesis seems pretty damn thin. The promise of huge savings appears to be advertisement enough. The outbreak of violence only hurts the bottom line.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 3:22 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


The old man is lucky. My wallymart just tazes shoppers until they cry then shoots them dead in the store.
http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/general-off-topic/65067-shooting-sou
th-knoxville-walmart.html


Quote:

Friends Remember Shopper Who Collapsed on Black Friday

SOUTH CHARLESTON, W.Va. (WSAZ) -- A man collapsed while doing some Black Friday shopping in a crowded store, and people nearby continued to shop.

A witness told WSAZ.com some shoppers walked around and even over the man's body.

Family members tell WSAZ.com that Walter Vance, of Logan County, W.Va., passed away after being taken to the hospital.

It happened at Target in the Southridge Shopping Center in South Charleston about 12:15 a.m. Friday.

Vance got sick and collapsed on the floor while shopping for Christmas decorations for his newly remodeled workplace.

Vance started working at the Aracoma Drug Company store in Logan when he was 16. He liked it so much, he went to pharmacy school at WVU and has worked there ever since.

He started a new Aracoma Drug Company store in Chapmanville and had co-owned it since the 70's.

Vance was 61 years old. Friends say he's has had heart problems for years and had open heart surgery in 2000, but his death came as a shock, and what happened in the final moments of his life only adds to the heartbreak.

"Where is the good Samaritan side of people?” Vance’s co-worker and friend Sue Compton said. “How could you not notice someone was in trouble? I just don't understand if people didn't help what their reason was, other than greed because of a sale."

One of the late night shoppers tells WSAZ.com what really disturbs her about the situation was the lack of concern by the rest of the shoppers.

An E.R. nurse happened to be one of the late night shoppers and tried to administer CPR. She and an off-duty paramedic who was also shopping did try to help Vance while he was on the floor.

An ambulance was called to the store. Vance was taken to the hospital, but later died.

WSAZ.com called Target Friday. So far, they haven't released a statement about what happened.

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/Man_Dies_on_Black_Friday_Shoppers_U
nfazed_134507443.html


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Sunday, November 27, 2011 3:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Survival of the fittest.


Evolution weeds out those who can't hunt w/ the big dogs.






"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:19 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Which begs the question, why do YOU want to paint rampant consumerism and a disposable economy as some kind of great victory?



Only in your head, Mike. Just correcting Niki's misapprehension of the data.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:36 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Which begs the question, why do YOU want to paint rampant consumerism and a disposable economy as some kind of great victory?



Only in your head, Mike. Just correcting Niki's misapprehension of the data.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




As I am correcting yours.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


If a few violent people on the fringes of the OWS movement discredit the whole movement, then don't a few violent shoppers (a pepper-spraying in LA, a shooting at a mall in NC, etc.) discredit the whole capitalist/consumerist movement?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 28, 2011 3:37 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
As I am correcting yours.



Where's your data that this is a worse Black Friday - customer volume or spending-wise - than previous years, then?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, November 28, 2011 4:38 AM

BYTEMITE


Where I'm at, the economy seems to be turning around. It's still in a fragile state and fallout from the overseas markets could hit and drag us back down, but empty rental offices now have new tenants, businesses are opening up, and so forth.

So I kind of believe the Black Friday projections, though with the understanding that many places in the country might not be in as good as economic condition as what I'm seeing.

A double dip recession has been the prediction, but certainly none of us WANT one. And even though it's only the low and middle income parts of the economy that are flowing again, that's better than no money circulation at all.

Though I'm hearing a lot of people are putting bigger purchases on layaway, so I do wonder how long THIS is going to last. People seem to insist on making the same mistakes over and over.

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Monday, November 28, 2011 6:10 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I'm not sure why so mundane a discussion as the amount of shopping done on Black Friday needs to spiral into such a competitive argument.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Monday, November 28, 2011 6:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Thing is, this is what the stores who pull this shit WANTED, chaos, carnage, scandal - and the free media attention/advertisement that comes with it.
Yup. One might want to note that, as far as I can find, almost ALL the incidents of violence happened at Walmarts.
Quote:

Reports from across the country show that a disproportionate number of arrests, fights, shootings, and other acts of Black Friday violence occurred at WalMarts. http://www.huliq.com/12092/walmart-wars-black-friday-bomb-threats-shoo
tings-stunnings-and-sprayings
were also bomb threats, tasering of customers by security guards, In my opinion, Walmat might best embody American consumerism fed by capitalist greed at the expense of its employees, vendors and the community. Just sayin'I know the terms that will be applied to me by those on the right fo saying that (socialist? communist? go for it), but the facts are there for anyone who chooses to see them, mostly indicated by the various lawsuits. Their egregious nature has been shown when it comes to the corporation's foreign product sourcing, treatment of product suppliers, environmental practices, the use of public subsidies, and the company's security policies (of which we just had perfect illusrations).

Examples abound which illustrate Walmart's policy of selling merchandise at such low costs that competitors have tried to sue it for predatory pricing (intentionally selling a product at low cost in order to drive competitors out of the market). Even Mexico investigated Walmart for "monopolistic practices" prompted by charges that the retailer pressured suppliers to sell goods below cost or at prices significantly less than those available to other stores. Walmart won, of course; they usually do. But when Germany did the same and WON, Walmart closed its German stores. It's well known for forcing its suppliers into self-defeating practices.

When it comes to its employees, they're infamous for low wages, poor working conditions, inadequate health care, as well as issues involving the company's strong anti-union policies. In my opinion, Walmart represents one of the most embarrassing illustrations of "free market" as it is manipulated in America.

So yes, in my opinion they don't mind the fuss, as it equates in people's minds that this place must be really hot, to get people so riled up and competitive. If they didn't like it, or it hurt their bottom line, they could easily take steps to minimize or avoid it:
Quote:

As the sales get earlier and earlier, it would appear that instead of alleviating the mania and the customer crushes, retailers like WalMart are only expanding the time in which the violence can -- and apparently inevitably -- will occur. http://www.huliq.com/12092/walmart-wars-black-friday-bomb-threats-shoo
tings-stunnings-and-sprayings
]


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Monday, November 28, 2011 6:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Yup. One might want to note that, as far as I can find, ALL the incidents of violence happened at Walmarts, which company might best embody American consumerism fed by capitalist greed at the expense of its employees. Just sayin'




So then, how does your hypothesis deal w/ the fact that there were as many folks at other stores, at midnight, where no such violence took place ?

American consumerism fed by capitalist greed at the expense of its employees , really ?

Could it be that ONLY at Wal-Mart, they ran their sale in such an unorganzied fashion, that it lead to such chaos ?

Could it be said that, maybe it's the socio-economic status of those who shop at Wal-Mart, which may have had a hand in the problems ?

See Niki, when one looks at the BIG picture, your twisted view of reality just doesn't pan out.

But, haters gonna hate, I reckon.



And I still love it that I got a kick ass deal on the item I bought, on line, and didn't have to stand in line for a second.




"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Monday, November 28, 2011 7:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Was typing this before I saw the response, which I will cheerfully ignore, except to say that yes, the high unemployment has caused those with fewer resources to shop there. But one might ask, why is it that the vast majority of violence occurred at Walmart stores and not other discounters, like say Target or Costco?

Anyway, here's what I was typing:

Their security people might have instructions that allow such heavy-handed practices as the ones we've seen. There was a news story about a fired Wal-Mart security worker who reported he was part of a large surveillance operation that spied on company workers, critics, vendors and consultants. They certainly have a heavy-handed approach. In one case, a woman shopper in a (Large city, 500,000-1 million people) came to checkout with a pan which had no tag (which the security guard took away, and returned, still without a price) and a stack of blank DVDs which had one tag with one price stuck over another tag with another price. She went through checkout, then things got ugly:
Quote:

At the exit, she was stopped by a Loss Prevention employee on her way out of the store. The employee told her "I think you know what this is for," to which she responded that she did not. He forced her to accompany him to a room inside the store. She asked him if he was a police officer, and he said he was not. He proceeded to detain her while calling the police. When she asked why he was holding her, he replied that had the right to keep her, and asked her "Haven't you ever heard of a citizen's arrest?"

During the course of her detention by Wal-Mart, the employee told her to show him her identification. She was standing at the push side of her shopping cart and the employee was at the front end of the cart. She reached for her purse to get her ID, and the employee grabbed her by the arm and threw her to the ground. He pinned her down with his knee in her back, and proceed to hold her in this position for several minutes while yelling at her. She tried to explain that he told her to show him her ID and that's what she was doing. He handcuffed her, pulled her up, and then began to yell at her some more. The line of yelling consisted of things such as "You can take this to court and contest it, but you will lose, because I am the best loss prevention person in the Midwest" (she had not suggested anything of the sort, he was pre-emptive) and "You're just a thief." He was close enough that his spit was hitting her in the face while she was being yelled at. The tackle caused her to suffer a laceration on her knee, a deep muscle bruise on her arm, and discomfort in her shoulder. http://ask.metafilter.com/39809/How-much-physical-abuse-can-WalMart-Co
ps-legally-dish-during-a-detainment-for-suspected-shoplifting
the end, after she was carted off to jail:
Quote:

After being held for 14 hours, she was released without any charges being filed and no citations issued. During her time, no one told her she was under arrest. No one told her what crime she was being accused of. No one told her of her rights. No one told her what was going to happen to her. No one told her anything. She was denied access to an attorney .
So apparently the police there are no better.

Needless to say, I have rather strong feelings about Walmart.



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Monday, November 28, 2011 9:43 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Could it be that ONLY at Wal-Mart, they ran their sale in such an unorganzied fashion, that it lead to such chaos ?

Could it be said that, maybe it's the socio-economic status of those who shop at Wal-Mart, which may have had a hand in the problems ?



Interesting. Why might that be?

Could it be the employees aren't trained enough/incorrectly -> Not enough money being spent on employees in all applicable ways?

Could it be the people who shop at Wall-mart are themselves so poor that to buy Christmas presents they must engage in gladiatoral combat with each other during sales in which a price tag is within their reach?

And if so, does this say anything about the wages in this country, relative to cost-of-living, debt considerations, and inflation?

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Monday, November 28, 2011 3:10 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
As I am correcting yours.



Where's your data that this is a worse Black Friday - customer volume or spending-wise - than previous years, then?

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Where exactly did I say that it was?

I questioned your comprehension of the data, not the data itself.

I get that you can't see the difference, though.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 28, 2011 3:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"So I kind of believe the Black Friday projections ..."

The projections may or may not be accurate, but I question whether they are even meaningful.

I remember the last few seasons. Stores deeply discounted their items so as to have good sales numbers. No one wanted to be holding a lot of x-mas merchandise after x-mas. Additionally, many people held off buying needed items during the year and bought them at x-mas instead. Also, people are holding on to their things longer - but the longer the recession the more likely it is things will break or wear out, meaning that people will have to buy replacements. For these and other other reasons the strength of holiday sales is a poor indicator of the strength of the economy, and indeed even a poor indicator of the strength of sales in general.

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Monday, November 28, 2011 3:33 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I'm apalled at Raptor's response to PN's post about that poor guy dying during the shopping. Raptor, I know you've been really nice to me lately, but you can't say luh suh mean crap like that and expect me to think its okay because you've been nice. We can't be friends if you're going to talk like that out loud so to speak. Humanity already has gone beyond survival of the fittest so there's no reason to mention it, its just mean.

My dad says the reason that most of the horrible incidents happen at WalMart is because people who shop at WalMart tend to be the less educated set. I don't think its that simple, but the fact that WalMart is where the horrid stuff goes on bears consideration. There was an incident a couple of years ago that happened at a WalMart that I can't discuss without becoming very upset.

When its just harmless stuff like shopping frenzy and trying to steal stuff out of each other's carts etc. it makes me laugh, but in the last several years its gotten less funny and more awful.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:24 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Where exactly did I say that it was?

I questioned your comprehension of the data, not the data itself.



Then by all means point out, using the data I provided, where my comprehension of that data was at fault.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 4:46 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:

Could it be that ONLY at Wal-Mart, they ran their sale in such an unorganzied fashion, that it lead to such chaos ?

Could it be said that, maybe it's the socio-economic status of those who shop at Wal-Mart, which may have had a hand in the problems ?



Interesting. Why might that be?

Could it be the employees aren't trained enough/incorrectly -> Not enough money being spent on employees in all applicable ways?

Could it be the people who shop at Wall-mart are themselves so poor that to buy Christmas presents they must engage in gladiatoral combat with each other during sales in which a price tag is within their reach?

And if so, does this say anything about the wages in this country, relative to cost-of-living, debt considerations, and inflation?



Poor management. Wal-mart doesn't DO big events very well. They do daily, come in, get what you need get out, but their stores are just not designed to handle massive, sudden, onslaughts of crowds. I don't know, but it's clear the rank and file employees just aren't equipped or motivated to effectively deal w/ this sort of stuff, and it all lands at the feet of management, for lack of planning, security and motivating employees.

And while the bulk of those who shop at Wal-Mart, or are attracted to such sales at their stores is at the lower end, economically speaking, the management should be aware of this , and try to deal with their customers accordingly.


But that's a far, far cry from laying the blame of this on capitalism or 'greed'.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 6:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, well SAID, Kiki! We tend to forget that numbers don't always reflect all the aspects of something, and when the news reports them, most of the time they fail to take into consideration all the things that may go into creating those numbers--and of course they have their own reasons for doing that. In this case, good news is at a minimum, and the country gets better or worse to a certain degree according to what people BELIEVE, so good sale numbers, valid or not, have a purpose.

Ah, Riona, I admire your attitude, but you reall think Raptor wants any friends here? You can dream...



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