The real message of OWS. by Wulfenstar

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 10:10 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

http://www.mrconservative.com/2011/12/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-occupy-wa
ll-st-participant/

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 11:05 AM

I truly don't understand why people have to attack and psychoanalyze the protesters themselves?

If you don't agree with their protest, why not critique their message? Why all the ad hominems?

Wulf, I feel disappointed that you consider these videos to represent the "real" message of OWS.

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"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 11:10 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Ok.

Whats their "message" then?

What do they think they are supporting? Or hope to accomplish?

The Tea Party was, and is, very clear.

Maybe Niki can clearly state what OWS is about.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 1:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Whats their "message" then?

What do they think they are supporting? Or hope to accomplish?

First, let's just clarify what they are NOT about. They are not about dismantling the entire commercial and manufacturing infrastructure of the USA. They are not against sweaters and iPhones and cable television.

It seems to me very clear what they want.

1. They want corporations and the top echelon of the wealthy to pay the taxes they owe. No breaks, no loopholes. Everyone else pays, they should too.

2. They want corporations and the top echelon of the wealthy to play by the same rules smaller business have to play by. Justice in courts. If they steal, they should go to jail just like a mid-level embezzler.

3. No bailouts for the top 1% that fails. They fail, they die, as they should.

4. No more corruption so that the top 1% can bribe the govt to pass laws on its behalf.

5. No more exploitation of labor and environment to increase profits. Profits are good, but not to the point where labor conditions and environment cannot thrive.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 2:15 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Ok.

Whats their "message" then?

What do they think they are supporting? Or hope to accomplish?

The Tea Party was, and is, very clear.

Really?

I must have missed the memo.

Maybe you can clearly state what the tea-baggers are all about.

I've heard "taxed enough already", which leads me to believe you have no problem with universal healthcare, so long as your taxes don't go up. Or that, really, you would have no problem with ANYTHING your government does, just as long as it doesn't raise taxes.

Is that it?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 2:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Whats their "message" then?

What do they think they are supporting? Or hope to accomplish?

First, let's just clarify what they are NOT about. They are not about dismantling the entire commercial and manufacturing infrastructure of the USA. They are not against sweaters and iPhones and cable television.

It seems to me very clear what they want.

1. They want corporations and the top echelon of the wealthy to pay the taxes they owe. No breaks, no loopholes. Everyone else pays, they should too.

2. They want corporations and the top echelon of the wealthy to play by the same rules smaller business have to play by. Justice in courts. If they steal, they should go to jail just like a mid-level embezzler.

3. No bailouts for the top 1% that fails. They fail, they die, as they should.

4. No more corruption so that the top 1% can bribe the govt to pass laws on its behalf.

5. No more exploitation of labor and environment to increase profits. Profits are good, but not to the point where labor conditions and environment cannot thrive.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

Careful - Wulfie here might get the idea that you're some kind of "hippie lib/prog" or some such!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 2:43 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I like that list CTS, and I agree with all of it, that is a list of things that I feel too.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 3:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I like that list CTS, and I agree with all of it, that is a list of things that I feel too.

Indeed, it is a pretty darn good list.

I could quibble a bit about "exploiting labor and the environment", since any kind of manufacturing and farming is going to exploit those things at least a little bit.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I could quibble a bit about "exploiting labor and the environment", since any kind of manufacturing and farming is going to exploit those things at least a little bit.

True. I think Occupy would demand that the exploitation has got to be sustainable.

Then they can negotiate what sustainable means.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Tuesday, December 13, 2011 7:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Careful - Wulfie here might get the idea that you're some kind of "hippie lib/prog" or some such!

A liberal hippie progressive who would like to see the end of most taxation and most govt services? Unlikely.

Or I would be one fucked up progressive.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 3:24 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Lets start with the list:

Quote:
1. They want corporations and the top echelon of the wealthy to pay the taxes they owe. No breaks, no loopholes. Everyone else pays, they should too.

Corporations DO pay taxes. A LOT of taxes. The wealthy (and here you have to defines who is wealthy...) pay a huge amount of taxes as well. The "loopholes" that are stated are, in reality, corporations trying to keep their profits intact... so that they can grow their business and continue to keep people employed.

Apple does it, Whole Foods does it etc.

Quote:
2. They want corporations and the top echelon of the wealthy to play by the same rules smaller business have to play by. Justice in courts. If they steal, they should go to jail just like a mid-level embezzler.

Thats fine. Then maybe, the regulations for everyone (small and large) need to be relaxed. It is VERY difficult to start a small business. Especially in blue states. As to the stealing, of course the people should go to jail. As should every politician who violates the Constitutional powers given to them by the people.

Quote:
3. No bailouts for the top 1% that fails. They fail, they die, as they should.

There never should have been "bailouts" in the first place. EVER. FOR ANY COMPANY OR STATE OR PERSON.

Quote:
4. No more corruption so that the top 1% can bribe the govt to pass laws on its behalf.

Thats a great idea. I would like to add, that there should no longer be any violence. Or hunger. Or sickness.

And if they want the government to end corruption... thats like putting MS-13 in charge of ending crime.

Quote:
5. No more exploitation of labor and environment to increase profits. Profits are good, but not to the point where labor conditions and environment cannot thrive.

Thats an awesome idea. We need to make laws against sweatshops, and hazmat waste dumping.

But wait, don't we already have those?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 5:09 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"And if they want the government to end corruption..."

Hello,

It must be fun to criticize, but the Tea Party has its own unrealistic goals. They want government to shrink itself and take less from the people.

"Thats an awesome idea. We need to make laws against sweatshops, and hazmat waste dumping.

But wait, don't we already have those?"

Not in any effective form. Obviously.

You seem to have very few critiques of the Occupy movement other than, "Ha, ha, that'll never happen." and "No more taxes."

When you share half a platform with someone, you'd think to get along better.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 7:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Didn't watch the videos; not going to bother with details. After all, it IS Wulf; nothing I say will get through, and I've clarified all this before. Got too much to do to waste my time, and you guys covered it pretty well. Thanks.

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 9:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

You are missing nothing new, Niki. This video was previously posted and discussed at length.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:26 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Then they can negotiate what sustainable means.

I remember watching a YouTube video of a Wisconsin protester during the Capital Campout aka Democrats Are Cowards event, which was an early OWS kinda thing.

He was mad because his boss didn't pay him what he wanted to make, expected him to come to work and abide by his boss's schedule, told him what to do, and didn't let him do what he wanted.

Thats OWS.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

Quote:
5. No more exploitation of labor and environment to increase profits. Profits are good, but not to the point where labor conditions and environment cannot thrive.

Thats an awesome idea. We need to make laws against sweatshops, and hazmat waste dumping.

But wait, don't we already have those?

Not if you tea-baggers have any say about it. As you said yourself, "the regulations for everyone (small and large) need to be relaxed."

So, do you want the laws and regulations relaxed and rolled back, or don't you?

Quote:

Quote:
4. No more corruption so that the top 1% can bribe the govt to pass laws on its behalf.

Thats a great idea. I would like to add, that there should no longer be any violence. Or hunger. Or sickness.

Oh, I get it - since we can't eliminate corruption, we shouldn't even try. Makes total sense.

Hey, you can't eliminate taxes, either. Or government.

So what does the Tea Party stand for, again? Y'know, since you never did answer that question.

If I didn't know better, I'd think you're afraid to answer!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:41 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
The "loopholes" that are stated are, in reality, corporations trying to keep their profits intact... so that they can grow their business and continue to keep people employed.

Sure. Which is why so many companies are posting record profits - and still cutting jobs.

You repeat the right talking points, without putting much thought behind them.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 10:43 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

If I didn't know better, I'd think you're afraid to answer!

A big manly man like the Wulftard? Nah, he'd never talk big and bitch out, never.

Oh, this ISN'T opposite day?

Nevermind.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 12:53 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Ive been saying that it sucks that OWS never came to the Tea Party.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Wednesday, December 14, 2011 1:24 PM