This just In...re: House of Representatives by AnthonyT

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Insanity. Sheer insanity. When you consider the idiocy it's going to create, for payroll companies, the government, workers, employers, and the money it's going to cost, as well as the fact that they'll all agree to it in the end, sure, doing nothing and going home for the holidays is reeel smart. Lord knows we've got all kinds of money to toss around playing political games, we've been doing it for two years now! Real good for consumer confidence, too...and of course it creates lots of jobs...

Yeah...right.

I wonder if anyone has calculated just how much all this pathetic "brinksmanship" has cost the government in the past two years...would be interesting to find out. And I can't help wondering how many of those neophyte "tea party" legislators will survive their next election...

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:21 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Insanity. Sheer insanity. When you consider the idiocy it's going to create, for payroll companies, the government, workers, employers, and the money it's going to cost, as well as the fact that they'll all agree to it in the end, sure, doing nothing and going home for the holidays is reeel smart.

The 2 month extension is what isn't workable, and what will cause all the chaos. This tax " holiday " was always intended to end after 1 year. It's been 1 year, and now the holiday is over.

And why are we being told it's a tax ? This payroll 'tax' is what solely funds SSI. The govt company line has always been that this is a " contribution " into our own SSI accounts, right ? It's not a "tax" at all! Oh, but NOW that Obama wants credit for cutting it, it's a tax ?

Americans are being bamboozled by the DC insiders - Democrat, Republicans and the media, all included.

If this were a Republican President, the media would spin it as the GOP taking $ from old folks, cutting SSI, and giving it to the Rich. ( How ? Who the hell knows, but every time the Left attacks the GOP ,it's always class warfare ). Or they'd say the GOP is trying to end SSI, by cutting its funding, and letting it " whither on the fine ".

But Obama ? He's trying to CUT your taxes ! And the mean old Repulbicans....they just want to stick it to the poor, and take their money!

Only this isn't 'taking' anyone's money, right ? The payroll tax is just a contribution , an "investment " into our future.

This ploy was nothing but PURE politics from the very get go, and Obama knew this , all along. It's like anything else govt does... a tax 'holiday', or a 'temporary ' rate increase, which some how never gets removed or rolled back to its original status, even after the objectives have been met. There's always a new crisis, an unforeseen situation, that pops up,and makes it impossible to end the holiday, or what ever.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Obama was all too eager to let the Bush tax cuts expire with the blessings of all fellow Democrats. People's paychecks would have gone down due to the new higher tax rate. Obama had to cave, the cuts stayed, and a Govt. shutdown was averted. Now it's a similar thing, but the roles are reversed. If Republicans don't pass the bill next week it will do irrepairable damage to any political hopes for 2012. Perception is often reality, and at some point during the non-stop CNN family paycheck disaster analysis reports, you just do what you have to do to stop the bleeding.

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:52 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Obama was all too eager to let the Bush tax cuts expire with the blessings of all fellow Democrats. People's paychecks would have gone down due to the new higher tax rate. Obama had to cave, the cuts stayed, and a Govt. shutdown was averted. Now it's a similar thing, but the roles are reversed.

But the roles aren't reversed. The payroll tax HOLIDAY was always intended to be just that, a 1 year cut in the rate of $ withheld from paychecks to fund SSI. The Bush tax rates have been in place for years now, and were sold, initially to BE permanent. This wasn't.

The GOP should remind everyone that the $ being taken out now is an " investment " to their own SSI. They won't, of course, because then that would remind folks just what a scam SSI is, and the ponzi scheme it is, which takes from you now, on the promise it'll be there when you retire. It won't be, but we're not suppose to pay attention to that little lie, and Obama is well aware of all that.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:03 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

" what a scam SSI is, and the ponzi scheme it is, which takes from you now, on the promise it'll be there when you retire. It won't be"

Hello,

I trust we are all in favor of paying less into the scam? Even if it was a real investment, the government is clearly mismanaging it.

Why is there a failure to reach consensus about this reduction?

I'd be happy to reduce my investment to zero, and have my investment refunded.

However, paying less brings me partway to my goal of paying nothing.

So... what is this debate about? Democrats want me to pay less and Republicans want to decrease my taxes. How can there be an argument?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:09 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Obama was all too eager to let the Bush tax cuts expire with the blessings of all fellow Democrats. People's paychecks would have gone down due to the new higher tax rate. Obama had to cave, the cuts stayed, and a Govt. shutdown was averted. Now it's a similar thing, but the roles are reversed.

But the roles aren't reversed. The payroll tax HOLIDAY was always intended to be just that, a 1 year cut in the rate of $ withheld from paychecks to fund SSI. The Bush tax rates have been in place for years now, and were sold, initially to BE permanent. This wasn't.

The GOP should remind everyone that the $ being taken out now is an " investment " to their own SSI. They won't, of course, because then that would remind folks just what a scam SSI is, and the ponzi scheme it is, which takes from you now, on the promise it'll be there when you retire. It won't be, but we're not suppose to pay attention to that little lie, and Obama is well aware of all that.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Some would argue the Bush tax cuts were intended to expire as well. Also, tax cut...tax holiday... just political semantics for most. It's all the same to the average man and family. It's less money they have each week to pay bills and live. It's too hot a political football now, and it will just give Obama additional material to add to his campaign narrative. Romney and Gingrich ought to be screaming at Boehner to pull this together pronto.

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:14 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
This tax " holiday " was always intended to end after 1 year. It's been 1 year, and now the holiday is over.

Ah, so what is the rationale for extending the Bush tax cuts, which were EQUALLY finite, and were supposed to end after ten years?

To not want to extend the payroll tax cuts because they were intended to be finite, yet fight like hell to extend the Bush tax cuts, also intended to be finite, is the height of hypocrisy and has no justification whatsoever.

The only CONCEIVABLE explanation for trying to make that argument is that massive tax cuts to the wealthy are what is desired, while small tax cuts for everyone is unacceptable. Again: insanity. In this case, obvious, hypocritical insanity.

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:34 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Quote:
This tax " holiday " was always intended to end after 1 year. It's been 1 year, and now the holiday is over.
Ah, so what is the rationale for extending the Bush tax cuts, which were EQUALLY finite, and were supposed to end after ten years?

No, the 10 years was a deal cut, by Bush, in order to work with the Dems. Originally, it was MEANT to be permanent. The SSI payroll tax cut ? Was always sold as a 1 year ' holiday'.

Quote:

To not want to extend the payroll tax cuts because they were intended to be finite, yet fight like hell to extend the Bush tax cuts, also intended to be finite, is the height of hypocrisy and has no justification whatsoever.

Not hypocritical in the least, for the reasons already listed.

Quote:

The only CONCEIVABLE explanation for trying to make that argument is that massive tax cuts to the wealthy are what is desired, while small tax cuts for everyone is unacceptable. Again: insanity. In this case, obvious, hypocritical insanity.

The Bush tax cuts weren't " massive " , and the RICH are still paying more than their fair share. ( THE PROBLEM IS THAT OUR FEDERAL GOVT IS SPENDING, WASTING TOO MUCH OF OUR MONEY ! ) But this class warfare argument you're raising isn't even the issue on the table.

It's funny, because for ever, we were told the payroll taxes for SSI weren't REALLY taxes, but instead were a 'contribution'. Now , as we see, it's a tax. How long will it be until the language swings around in D.C. and the concept of 'voluntarily contributing' is back in vogue ?

But you are right. This is insanity. The Dems want to cut in half the $ we pay into SSI, out of our paychecks, to a program that is already circling the drain. However, what they're NOT telling you is how they plan to add back into SSI... it's a tax on new home sales. Yep, the Dems want to slip that little gem into the system, so the 'rich' who can afford to buy a new home will end up paying for everyone's SSI. And what, do you think that more such sneaky little tack on taxes won't be implemented in the future ?

HA!

A bit here, a bit there... there is NO limit to the amount of money govt wants to take from you. NONE.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:02 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"there is NO limit to the amount of money govt wants to take from you. NONE."

Hello,

And therefore we should let the tax reduction expire?

Republicans shouldn't be arguing against an extension of the 'Holiday.' They should be arguing to double-down and make it permanent.

That they aren't making this argument... well, to me that's how you spell Hypocrite.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:19 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yup, Anthony, right on. There is no way for them to show themselves as ANYTHING but what they are by these actions: Hypocrites of the first order who don't care if their hypocrisy is quite clear to all.

The twisted rationale expressed is pretty pathetic, and at this point there really is no way they can look anything BUT hypocritical...especially as the Senate came up with a WIDELY bypartisan agreement which would allow Congress to come back and have two months to iron out their differences. To just walk away is a HUGE "fuck you" to every working American, and there's no way they can pretend otherwise, ESPECIALLY as they say they supposedly "want" the full one-year cut!

All this does is illustrate very clearly just how far some will go to try and defend them, logic notwithstanding. To say the Bush cuts were "intended" to be permanent is bullshit; they agreed to the ten-year deadlin. Just because the Republicans' intentions were for it to be permanent means nothing; much as it appears otherwise the last ten years, Republicans don't run the WHOLE Congress.

There is NO limit to the amount of money Republicans wants to take from you to give to the rich. NONE

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:03 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"there is NO limit to the amount of money govt wants to take from you. NONE."

Hello,

And therefore we should let the tax reduction expire?

Republicans shouldn't be arguing against an extension of the 'Holiday.' They should be arguing to double-down and make it permanent.

That they aren't making this argument... well, to me that's how you spell Hypocrite.

--Anthony

2 problems with that idea, Anthony.

1. What they won't take out of your pay check, they'll get from you another way. As is the case here.

2. If you want to hasten the demise of the SSI, then say so. I'd applaud it if the GOP were man enough to say that's what they want, but it's nothing but a shell game. Give you more of your $ from your pay check , but take it from you somewhere else. We all still pay in the end, but by the govt's rules, not your own.

Oh, and Niki? There's nothing remotely twisted in my rationale, in the least. Them's the facts, as they are.

Wanna know another neat factoid ? The House ALREADY passed a bill for the full year extension of the 'holiday'. Don't hear much about that one though, huh?

Gee, I wonder why.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:12 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"1. What they won't take out of your pay check, they'll get from you another way. As is the case here."

Hello,

So your argument is that reducing taxes is futile because the government will simply take your money elsewhere?

By that logic, we should never seek a reduction in tax for anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Which would leave the GOP without much of their foundation of existence.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:45 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"1. What they won't take out of your pay check, they'll get from you another way. As is the case here."

Hello,

So your argument is that reducing taxes is futile because the government will simply take your money elsewhere?

In this case, absolutely. It's nothing but a redistrubtion of wealth going on here. How you don't see that, I'm at a loss.

Quote:

By that logic, we should never seek a reduction in tax for anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Which would leave the GOP without much of their foundation of existence.

--Anthony

I'm not seeing the connection you're making . This govt is 15 + trillion dollars in debt. It's spending far too much of our money. It refuses to stop spending our money. The reason to cut taxes are to reign in the spending, and to allow for the people more use of their own money. This isn't what's going on here. This bill is deceptive in making us think we're getting more of our $ back, but then adds on an extra tax, on new home purchases.

The GOP has already passed for a full year of the tax holiday extension. Why the Senate didn't do this , you'll have to ask Harry Reid and the Democrats.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 2:30 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that the GOP would like very much to cut my taxes, but that their opposition is that an alternative means of revenue is being used to do so?

So their message is, "Yes, let's extend this Tax Holiday, but let's pay for it differently?"

Their message is not, then, "Let's end this Tax Holiday?"

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 2:39 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Getting rid of SSI would be a bad idea.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 2:46 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Getting rid of SSI would be a bad idea.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Hello,

What concerns you about the possibility of the program being dissolved?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 4:31 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

That question seems incredibly silly to me and almost feels like it isn't worth giving my time to answer. Just think about it for a moment, think about my career/field of work. Think about how I'm someone who happens to have disabilities who believes that people need some help sometimes when getting work/keeping a job isn't easy for them due to various complications. Think about how I'm pro social programs. Think on it for a moment and then answer your own question. I know you're frustrated with me from the other thread, you can't understand where I'm coming from. I can't understand where you're coming from here. Lets call it even.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 4:38 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

My questions here do not relate to my concerns there. I am genuine in my curiosity.

My understanding about Social Security is that I pay into it now, and withdraw my investment later when I need it (and to the degree the government lets me.)

My understanding about Social Security is that the government is horrendously mismanaging my investment, taking money from the till to fund whatever fancies them.

My philosophy is not to use investment firms who pilfer my investment.

It occurs to me that I might make superior investments of my money if I was allowed to keep it.

Is my understanding of the system flawed, are you happy with the government's use of your investment, or are you doubtful that individuals could invest their money more wisely?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 4:41 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"think about my career/field of work."

Hello,

I wanted to add that I do not remember what you do for a living.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 7:30 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Haven't read all subsequent posts, but I'll respond insofar as the bill the House "passed". It was a deliberate attempt to make sure the tax break wasn't extended, as illustrated by all the irrelevant things included in it, intended so that the GOP COULD say "we passed something, so it's the Dem's fault..". It's been referred to as a "poison pill". That's familiar political ploy on both sides; everyone knows why it was done and that it was a ruse, which is why nobody is paying attention to it. Note that even few Republicans are talking about it, or using it as a tool to damn the other side. A few are, but most are too smart to bother.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 7:50 AM

America loves a winner!

Nancy Pelosi, who used that " poison pill " line is simply nuts. The House passed a solid bill , with the year long extension of the p.r. tax cut, as the President originally wanted & agreed to. It is he & the Dems who are playing politics with the American wallets. Not the GOP .

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 8:54 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Another unintended (one would hope) consequence of the proposed two-month extension is that many businesses do not have the time to update and test their computerized payroll systems to deal with all the provisions relating to maximum income limits on the tax reduction, etc.

Per the National Payroll Reporting Consortium, Inc.:

"The difficulty is in establishing a new Social Security Taxable Wage limit of $18,350 for the two month extension period. More than ten percent of the workforce is likely to meet that limit, and would be subject to the higher 6.2% tax rate for earnings over that amount. However, many payroll systems are not likely to be able to make such a substantial programming change before January or even February. The systems affected tend to be highly complex, normally requiring at least ninety days for a change of this magnitude for software testing alone; not to mention analysis, design, coding and implementation."

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/payroll-industry-sees-major-flaws-in-
senates-two-month-payroll-tax-cut-extension/

Having had to do such changes when working for the IRS, in an IT shop that was used to developing, testing, and implementing on short notice when Congress would come up with this sort of hare-brained scheme, I can testify that doing such changes is labor and cost intensive, and - unless your team is very good - prone to error.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:31 AM

I may be wrong about this, but it seems to me that at least in theory, everybody believes that government has some role in providing for the common welfare to the people who supposedly own it.

Government should regulate polution, government should be empowered to protect civil rights...etc.

We may not all be in agreement on the value of social security, apparently, even though the effect it has had on poverty of the elderly since its institution suggests to me at least, that it has been a very succesful program.

But if misuse had made it a failure, if abuse by the people we have been steered towards electing has stolen from it and it truly is going to eventually end up not paying back out, I find the prospect of just dismantling it as our prefered recourse, self-mutilating.

I'll use a different government function as an example for my point because I think the vested interest by moneyed interests in doing away with social security is a little more murky to me, though I have some suspicions. (on edit, its not really murky at all, just wasn't thinking-investment companies would love that money)

So lets just take big bad oil, and its desire to drill everywhere with no regard for the environment. Because over the years it has had its own people minding the store at the EPA, the epa has not been an overly effective regulator of that industry or others. Yes, its a corrupted and ineffectual institution. Is the best solution really to just disband it? In which scenerio does my boogey man win bigger in the long term?

I find it unfortunate that a certain party has an ideology that government is the problem, and when it gets into power sets about showing us just how true that is(with help of some useful democrats), and that the voters react by giving them exaclty what they want, a 3 way split between people who don't believe in any safety nets, people who do, and people who believe that government can't and thus shouldn't be trusted to handle them...

That last group seems to me the foil that enables government to remain ineffectual, that will always be the defacto support for the powers that don't want government getting in their way of siphoning off and exploitation. Its the group that these interests have in their pocket simply by continuing to fund water carrying politicians to do their bidding, which simultaneously prove how disfunctional government is. It's a win-win.

I'd rather that way of gaming things wasn't so succesful.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:55 AM

I'm not an economist so this is a theory about social security which I hold that I welcome debunking, becuase I haven't done any real research or study on the matter,

I believe that some people can do better with their investments than the government, sure. But the government at least does not have an intrinsic interest in bilking the public. It does so when it does, inefectually or half-heartedly, because its a grid-locked and conflicted entity.

Businesses and banks on the other hand, are very good at that, very good at establishing satelite industries and resources to misguide a populace that has no liesure time to know the ins and outs of investments, which is why they look for the help of "experts." A system that leaves it up to the public is something for the wolves to salivate over. They know the woods so much better than most of us, and they could win a little by being of help, or big by either helping us fail, or by setting up a harvest where they cut everything down and leave the rest of us holding empty bags.

Didn't we just go through a major crisis like this recently?

Thats one problem I have with everybody investing their own money, as best they see fit. My other problem with it is more theoretical. It seems to me that essentially capping our expendable income keeps prices of neccesities and luxuries down. If that cap didn't exist and say 20 percent of the population were "irresponsible" with their fatter weekly paycheck, it seems like that might inflate essentials like food and rent some, to the point where even those trying to be responsible with their money would be forced to bring more to the table just for cost of living.

On the flip side, it is more money in the economy, but my guess is the drain on the other end when there are poor elderly people who have no money to spend and are either carried by the state or discarded would more than offset any benefits.

Anyway, tell me why that doesn't make sense. I'm looking to understand this better.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:04 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"U.S. House completes business and leaves for holiday break, leaving unresolved the fate of a payroll tax cut extension."

Hello,

This was the headline on CNN.

Completes business? I daresay not.

The House passed it's version before the Senate did. Not their fault Senate Dems don't support this tax cut.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:16 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"Yes, its a corrupted and ineffectual institution. Is the best solution really to just disband it? In which scenerio does my boogey man win bigger in the long term?"

Hello,

The difference between Social Security and the EPA is this:

If the EPA goes away, then there is no one left to do the job of protecting the environment.

If Social Security goes away, I still have my money, and can invest it in my own retirement according to my best judgment.

If government continues to mismanage Social Security, (and there really is no indication that they are planning to make an about-face) then I will not have my money, and I will not have my retirement. I will have been robbed.

When I am involved in a bad investment, cashing out is probably the best option available to me.

If we Americans don’t demand to get our money out of this investment now, I fear they will drain it all away and leave us with nothing, not even pennies on the dollar. The only hope then is that you get your payout before the system crumbles away.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:53 AM

DALEK!

At this point I say let the cuts lasp and once again we will see that increasing taxes does not spell the end of the world.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 10:53 AM

I don't know,

I think that you have just slightly more autonomy over keeping your money safe than you have control over protecting the environment on your lonesome. consider my second post on that matter. If not you, at least most people are going to end up on the wrong side of the deal, in my opinion, a condition that has absolutely not been the case to date under social security since its implementation.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:06 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Getting rid of SSI would be a bad idea.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Have you noticed that SSI, and the fact the pay roll tax is the sole source of funding for SSI , isn't being discussed by either party ? No one wants to even address THAT issue, or the solvency of that program, and how reducing what people 'contribute' into the SSI by half will only hasten its demise ?

No, the people are too stupid, too distracted to fully comprehend the bigger picture. All that's being talked about is take home pay, working families and helping the middle class.

Please.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:11 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, the people are too stupid, too distracted to fully comprehend the bigger picture. All that's being talked about is take home pay, working families and helping the middle class.

Those are the big picture. It does not matter what else happens but if the whole of the middle class falls into poverty the system crumbles.

Reducing government spending does not help people, it hurts them. Almost all government spending goes to people in one way or another. In the end cutting government spending it takes more money out of the people's hands then any tax cut could.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:15 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Reducing government spending does not help people, it hurts them. Almost all government spending goes to people in one way or another. In the end cutting government spending it takes more money out of the people's hands then any tax cut could.

I can't begin to tell you how naive and completely wrong you sound there, MD.

I really am speechless.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:28 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I can't begin to tell you how naive and completely wrong you sound there, MD.

I really am speechless.

Really?

Let's look at it. You have said agencies such as the EPA should be done away with. The EPA employs over 17,000 people not counting contractors and has a budget of around $10 billion.

Even if we say only a quarter of that budget is net pay for their employees, that is over $2 billion you are going to take out of the economy.

Now tell me how that helps!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:30 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Reducing government spending does not help people, it hurts them. Almost all government spending goes to people in one way or another. In the end cutting government spending it takes more money out of the people's hands then any tax cut could.

I can't begin to tell you how naive and completely wrong you sound there, MD.

I really am speechless.

In the begining the world was darkness. Then liberal Democrats said "let there be government" and all was right with the world.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:34 AM

And if he's saying that thats a waste, and that body should not be hiring those people, and they don't produce anything or do anything of value, then I wonder what he thinks a toxic nation would do to property values, tourism, the health and mental abilities of our citizens and thus productivitey, and on and on...would be a good time to invest in bubble dome technology though...

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:36 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"In the end cutting government spending it takes more money out of the people's hands then any tax cut could."

Hello,

I think this is only true if I receive more back from the government than I put in.

Not only do I have no idea how to calculate that...

But common sense tells me such a system would be unsustainable. At best I can hope for parity.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:37 AM

I would calculate it as an investment for a continued chunk of the larger global market, when government spends on its people and its infrastructure.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:03 PM