Should Dangerous Science be Censored? by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Should Dangerous Science be Censored?

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:33
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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 2:44 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/21/opinion/caplan-flu-science/index.html?hp
t=hp_c2

Hello,

Science journals have been asked to shut up about research into increasing the virulence of the avian flu disease. Presumably, there was worry that someone might engineer a weapon out of the virus, and so research was conducted to see if it was possible to do so. (Surprise, the answer is yes.)

There are certainly legitimate concerns that someone might take advantage of the research to forward a sinister agenda. On the other hand, I wonder if there might not be a danger in keeping such research under wraps. When the Government goes Hush, I always get nervous that some devious, dirty thing is in progress. What if they are the ones taking advantage of the research to forward a sinister agenda, and they don't want anyone knowing too much about how it works?

What do you think?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 3:13 PM

DREAMTROVE

Information should not be censored, but it is important to not aid morons. The dumb have always been able to pick up good science and apply it to bad things, like the atom bomb. The more we coddle the stupid into doing the extraordinary, the more ill conceived plans that will result.

Ideally, we should always have our best minds working on the defense against the worst idaes that might be spawned. If we censor free thought, then it will be almost certain that the worst ideas will have no defense against them, since such defense tends to come from the masses, who, logically, must possess the most brains, there being more of them and all.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 3:15 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Dream,

So, are you in agreement with the censorship here, to keep from aiding 'dumb' people?

Or do you want free information flow?

I wasn't able to tell.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:10 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I'm for free flow, it is creepy that badguys can use it to hurt folk but it would be creepy if the government kept it a secret so they could potentially hurt folk without us knowing how they were doing it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

No, but we should put a stop to that rock and roll music. It puts the devil into our kids these days !

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 3:34 AM

DREAMTROVE

Anthony,

The information should be freely available to those who can access it, but you should not do the information work of morons.

In my experience, morons are in power, and they have no compunction about using intelligence ideas in stupid ways. They couldn't get it for themselves, and those that could would not behave in that way.

This is in part because I believe evil intent and stupidity are inextricably linked. You can be stupid without being evil, but not the other way around because evil is the lack of understanding of consequences. Ultimately, everything you do will effect you, and so any amount of negativity you force on the world, like blowing up the planet, would effect you, being a resident of the planet.

Ergo, I believe that acquiring the knowledge will bring wisdom of its consequences with it, but only if you actually learn it for yourself. If you have someone else build the technology and then you hand it to a moron to use, the result will almost surely be a weapon, because the simplest and dumbest expression of sentience is when something is in the way to hit it over the head.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 3:39 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

No, but we should put a stop to that rock and roll music. It puts the devil into our kids these days !

Auraptor,

Let me put a specific example to you, because I'm actually curious of your take on this:

Iran wishes to develop nuclear capability. This idea went through several stages. First, it was the british saying "we'll do it for you" and then it was us saying "or we'll teach you how" which was directly before the islamic revolution, and so it became "we won't teach you how" which then became the iranians saying "we will figure it out for ourselves" and then we said "We will not let you figure it out for yourselves" and now to "you are forbidden to have this knowledge that you figured out for yourselves" further to a possible "we will bomb you into the stone age and make you stupid again."

Which of these do you think is the correct stance, and why?
ETA: I don't mean why from a strategic foreign policy perspective, but why from an ideological information freedom perspective.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 9:43 AM

CANTTAKESKY

DT, so, Anarchists' Cookbook. Pro or con?

My position, as an anarchist, should be obvious. :)

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:02 AM

DREAMTROVE

Pro, it's a how to. People should have information to learn how to, but not to be assisted as in "here, you might be an ignorant muthurfuckur, but let's make you a bomb." which is basically what Einstein did for FDR.

I think terrorist is actually a problem, and this is how you get it. The time spent getting to point B is time enough to think, and perhaps gain some perspective on the world.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
What if they are the ones taking advantage of the research to forward a sinister agenda, and they don't want anyone knowing too much about how it works?

What do you think?

I honestly think that is actually the case, in fact I am certain that it is and they are doing a piss poor job of hiding it.

From the attempts to deliberately re-create the flu panic of 1976 and profiteer off it, at the hands of Rumsfeld, being the same fuck who pulled it the first time, to the recent bizarre behavior of the CDC, anyone with half a brain would be suspicious already.

When they started fiddling around trying to recreate the infamous 1918 flu strain, I pointed out suspicions even then at the time, right here - and sure enough, it got "accidently" wilded, and thankfully much to my amusment curb stomped by eighty some years of human immune system evolution.
AND I put to you that no effective research came out of it, in fact soon after it was "accidently" wilded, all further research dried up all but instantly - is this not a telling point ?

Didn't take too many incidents of that nature to provoke suspicion, especially when oh so incredibily convenient or even damn near impossible to accidently contrive, like Baxter somehow violating BSL3/4 procedures and mailing live virus marked as vaccines.
Especially when Mexico, which has far less rigorous testing than Germany did, suffered a massive outbreak of that EXACT strain centered around areas where that vaccine was deployed, leading one to suspect more than a few got a "vaccination" that was in fact pure virus.

And now this, yeaaaah, like we're NOT gonna be suspicious - I mean come ON.
They're cookin this up for a purpose, either to provoke a panic/pandemic and sell vaccines, or to justify even further encroachments on what pitiful rights we got left, some combination of the two, or what have you - but the essential INTENTION to "accidently" wild it upon us ?

There is utterly no doubt whatsoever in my mind about that, even less than there was that Gardasil was dangerous and they were trying to saturate the market and make maximum profit before that penny dropped.

They don't want someone ELSE coming up with a potential counter to it, THAT, is what is going on here.

And partially this whole secrecy thing is a sham to begin with, a shoveljob that will allow them to blame poor information controls (and thus excuse even more secrecy/tyranny) and point the finger at some convenient "terrorist" group and deflect suspicion from THEM when it does get wilded.

I mean they're not even subtle any more, like they don't even care how fucking obvious it is.
And that's kind of ominous in itself.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, December 22, 2011 12:33 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
They don't want someone ELSE coming up with a potential counter to it, THAT, is what is going on here.

I hate to be paranoid, contrary to popular belief.

But I feel the same way.

-----
"Christmas is a time when kids tell Santa what they want and adults pay for it. Deficits are when adults tell the government what they want - and their kids pay for it." - Richard Lamm

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