Quote:

---

I am also waiting for evil to go away

---

Quote:

---

Please don't assume I am comfortable or blind.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
I have spent and will continue to spend my personal and professional life trying to make things better for the future. Are YOU waiting?

---

Quote:

---

It's not an assumption, it's an observation.

---

Quote:

---

I have observed wars fought with spaceships and aliens.

---

Quote:

---

Just like you, I have spent and will continue to spend my personal and professional life trying to make things better for the future.
Just like you, I am hanging onto my evil wealth that creates poverty while "making things better for the future" because I don't want to be poor.
Just like you, I'll give up my evil wealth when we have a system where I don't need my evil wealth anymore.

---

Quote:

---

I think we understand each other. We disagree on what we define as a "better" society and... more importantly... how to get there.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
One of the differences between the more leftward-leaning nations of S Amer is not just the static GINI but the trend.

While our GINI has been going up dramatically

1968- 38.6
1970- 39.4
1980- 40.3
1990- 42.8
2000- 46.2
2010- 46.8

Brazil's (for example) has been going down
1981- 57.4
1989*- 62.5
1997- 59.3
2004- 56.4

www.drclas.harvard.edu/revista/articles/view/935

*This was the highest recorded index, which occurred just after the military (supported by the USA) finally gave up control of the economy after driving it off a cliff.

In any case, there are some more left-leaning nations south of the border and others not so much.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Except that I'm not worried abut personal poverty, I AM worried about my child being out on the street.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:

Quote:

---

I have observed wars fought with spaceships and aliens.

---

Oh dear. I wouldn't say that out loud too much, if I were you.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:



* You cannot bring about prosperity by thrift alone. You can be a really thrifty housecleaner and never be a millionaire. Get some reality.
* You cannot strengthen the weak by strengthening the strong. The strong are, by and large, only interested in strengthening themselves and actually rely upon the weak to maintain their position of power.
* You cannot help little men by tearing down big men. Well at least that is what the big men would have you believe. Actually in a capitalist society, 'tearing each other down' 'bringing down the opposition' 'reaping the rewards from others failures' are mantras for succuss.
* You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. [Translation - do not make the wage payer pay decent wages, it will eat into his bottom line and that will make him cranky]
* You can help the poor by ensuring that not all opportunities to succeed are the sole domain of the rich.
* You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money, except if you are a bank or a financial insitution and that is how you make sqillions.
* You cannot further the brotherhood of man in a society where huge economic divisions exist and create class hatred
* You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn, but you can spend other peoples money quite easily.
* You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's chance to succeed because of a system that is stacked in favour of the wealthy and against the poor.
* And you cannot help men permanently by exploiting their labour and their resources.

He also had a list of Seven National Crimes

* Corporate greed
* Sucking up to the rich and powerful
* Blaming the most disadvantaged in society for society's ills
* Putting wealth creation ahead of personal well being
* Believing opinion and infotainment to be the same thing as news
* Being obsessed with being 'Number 1 in the world'
* Hubris

Fixed.

Happy New Year.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:

Quote:

---

I have observed wars fought with spaceships and aliens.

---

Oh dear. I wouldn't say that out loud too much, if I were you.

Quote:

---

---

Did you watch this show?

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

Quote:

---

The difference between you and me is that you want OTHER rich people to be destroyed. You want THEM and THEIR children to be poor. Just not you or your child.

---

Quote:

---

Just six years before Fidel Castro and one thousand “Fidelistas” took control in 1959, Cuba’s Gini coefficient* was slightly above .57. Only four years after the revolution, private capital had disappeared, and the Gini coefficient, now almost entirely dependent on wage income, had dropped to a bit above .28.6

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, once again weasel-wording facts instead of looking for truth.

The two nations in S and Central America which have the lowest GINI are also the most "socialist"- Venezuela and Cuba...

---

Quote:

---

As I recall, I did pretty exhaustive research on ALL of our "interventions" since the 1900s, which you pretty much dismissed, so well-researched comprehensive data is not to your liking anyway, especially if it goes against what you would like to believe about the so-called free market and the American military.

---

Quote:

---

...but hey, if you want to prove me wrong, knock yourself out and look at the GINI histories of ALL nations south of our border. Maybe you will learn something. Or maybe you will teach me something... but I doubt it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

* You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
* You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
* You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.
* You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
* You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
* You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.
* You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
* You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
* You cannot build character and courage by destroying men's initiative and independence.
* And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.

---

Quote:

---

And as I recall it, most of your 'exhaustive research' was quoting from one long screed against the U.S., and I provided refutation of most of your claims from a wide range of objective sources, whcih you ignored because they didn't fit in with your 'America is evil" worldview.

---

Quote:

---

So we started with all of Central and South America

---

Quote:

---

But the U.S. is gone from South and Central America now, the Socialists have taken over... Nevertheless, a lot of the more Socialist countries in South and Central America have at least as high or higher (sometimes much higher) GINI index than the U.S.

---

Quote:

---

46.2 in 2000 to 46.8 in 2010 is dramatic?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
But if you really feel that you have made significant points, tell us all which points you feel were in error. Please, educate us. In detail. Back up your opinion with evidence. It's been in really short supply lately.

---

Quote:

---

I will say that based on checking five nations, the ones that the USA opposes have more equal income distributions than the ones the USA supports, and income inequality rises when the USA supports and government and falls when it does not. Again, feel free to refute me, but do so in detail.

---

Quote:

---

Again, did anyone say that the income gap was ALL due to Bush?

---

Quote:

---

Why? My statement was that "most nations in Central and South America have higher GINI" indexes than the U.S. They do

---

Quote:

---

But the U.S. is gone from South and Central America now, the Socialists have taken over, and South and Central America are adapting the Bolivarian System, so or course their income distribution is much better than the evil ole USA ... Nevertheless, a lot of the more Socialist countries in South and Central America have at least as high or higher (sometimes much higher) GINI index than the U.S. .that socialism had taken over C and S America

---

Quote:

---

No. You're the only one who has mentioned Bush.

---

Quote:

---

46.2 in 2000 to 46.8 in 2010 is dramatic? Looks like most of the gain (3.4 in the 1990 - 2000 decade) was during the Clinton administration.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
here is one of the threads... I will try ot find the other later

http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=42912&p=1w
e

---

Quote:

---

Why? My statement was that "most nations in Central and South America have higher GINI" indexes than the U.S. They do

---

Quote:

---

But the U.S. is gone from South and Central America now, the Socialists have taken over, and South and Central America are adapting the Bolivarian System, so or course their income distribution is much better than the evil ole USA ... Nevertheless, a lot of the more Socialist countries in South and Central America have at least as high or higher (sometimes much higher) GINI index than the U.S. .that socialism had taken over C and S America

---

Quote:

---

And, again quoting you, it is of course entirely an accident that you would focus on the GINI trend from 2000 to 2010...

---