Obama risks Catholic vote with birth-control mandate by AURaptor

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Obama risks Catholic vote with birth-control mandate

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, February 10, 2012 09:47
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VIEWED: 5816
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Thursday, February 9, 2012 4:06 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So, you've been backed into a corner, away from "The government shouldn't force religions to provide contraception" to

Quote:
Hard on pills and free contraception aren't " medical care "

, eh?

So, what is "medical care"?
-------------------

Rappy, may I make a suggestion?

You get in trouble when you argue something that you feel deeply. It feels so right, so true, that it must be. But it's not. The next time you feel something so strongly, STFU and THINK. Ask yourself, before someone else does... what do I mean? What really bothers me? Are there similar situations that might be the same but don't get the same reaction? Why not? How do I define my words? Asking yourself ahead of time means that you won't have to be defending these points on the fly.

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 5:07 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Hard on pills and free contraception aren't " medical care ". It's ridiculous to try to claim these things as being on par w/ a chest cold or a sprained ankle.

Hello,

I am again amazed that you consider the common cold a health care issue, but not a malfunctioning penis.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 6:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Sig, your reaction is on par with those who think there is a god. Health benefits were never a " right ". They were extras that companies offered to get top employees. You can't / won't distinguish between benefits & access TO HC. There should be no obligation for ANY employer to offer anything more than a paycheck. I know it flies in the face of what you're use to hearing. I get that you'd love to live in a full blown nanny state, where ALL your needs & wants are taken care of by big brother.

" But that ain't me." ( spoken in best Mal Reynolds voice )

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 6:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"" But that ain't me." ( spoken in best Mal Reynolds voice)"

Hello,

I think Mal Reynold's shipboard health plan would cover malfunctioning penises along with inoculations and gunshot wounds.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 6:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Riona, re your question

Quote:
but I bet most of them don't follow that rule

, if you noticed in the material I posted:

Quote:
in recent polls, about 95 percent of Catholics have said they use contraceptives and 89 percent say the decision to use them should be theirs, not the church's

So yes, you're right.

Hi Two, think I've seen you before but not sure? Thanx for weighing in with some of the Catholic dichotomies, they're very valid.

Story and Bluehand; Yeah, I saw what you saw, but figured why bother noting his insanity, as everyone else can see it for themselves.

Kiki:

Quote:
'men who stare at zygotes'

I LOVE it! I guess that's what Obama's doing, according to DT.

I guess I gotta split the prize for the morning between you and Anthony for his suggestion regarding Mal's healthcare plan. Both got a "first guffaw of the morning". Thank you.

On my way out the door, just popped in to offer some further information. The issue, in part, is that there are many, many people who work for these hospitals/colleges/nonprofits/etc. who are NOT Catholic, or necessarily even religious. The issue in part is THEIR right to equivalent healthcare to what employees get from other employers, and I think it's a valid one. And before, predictably, we get the "then they shouldn't work for religious hospitals/charities/nonprofits/etc., how does that jibe with the pharmacist who refuses to give out birth control pills because it is "against his/her conscience"? You can't have one without the other.

And as far as I'm concerned, if one chooses to be a secretary for a church, that's one thing; if one chooses as a doctor, nurse, secretary, etc., to work for a hospitals, etc., which happens to be funded IN PART by a religious organization, or at least sponsored by one, they should provide decent healthcare equivalent to the rest of the private sector.

There is also, again, the very valid point that this institutions GET MONEY FROM THE GOVERNMENT. That alone should disallow them exemptions from government rules. So how do they rationalize that with imposing their own rules, which other companies receiving government grants aren't allowed to do?

And STILL, the Obama Administration is seeking some kind of compromise which won't "offend" the religious "we get special priviliges"ers. Imagine that!

Enjoy; I'm outta here, got daily demonstrations against foreclosure auctions all week, which is more useful and actually more enjoyable than reading the crap put up here by a couple of people so intent on making their points and being contrarian and hating anything "left" that they will reach for ANYTHING they can grasp, real, valid or otherwise. See 'ya!

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 8:19 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE

It boils down to the Catholic/conservative belief that this is interfering with their freedom of religion. And it is. Unfortunately for them, the freedom it violates is the freedom TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST OTHER RELIGIONS.

This freedom is not a protected one under our constitution, in fact it is exactly the behavior that is banned under our constitiution, but the righties dont want to hear/see/believe that, even tho its right in front of their faces.

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 8:57 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I can see Niki's argument that if you get money from the government you have to follow their rules. If someone has a problem with their rules then maybe the they should try to work to change them, who knows if they'll actually change anything, but they have the right to try if they so desire.

Anthony's Serenity infirmery comment made me laugh, I do think Mal covers most anything a crew member needs if they have enough coin floating around. The only thing that might not be covered is viagraesque, if we don't have enough coin to keep our engine in parts then where are we going to get the coin to cover Jayne's latest problem with the ladies at Miss Kitty's? :)

the thing that makes me laugh about viagra is that most men as they get older lose stammina, its normal, and many women as they get older lose stammina too, so then you've got this souped up guy ready and raring to go and his wife is like "not tonight I've got a headache, and then he's up a creek. Now, I have this theory that if couples rutted more to begin with those parts wouldn't fall into disrepair as often, but that's just my theory.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 10:02 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE

I like this theory Riona. Clearly it needs more testing.

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 10:41 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
the thing that makes me laugh about viagra is that most men as they get older lose stammina, its normal, and many women as they get older lose stammina too, so then you've got this souped up guy ready and raring to go and his wife is like "not tonight I've got a headache, and then he's up a creek. Now, I have this theory that if couples rutted more to begin with those parts wouldn't fall into disrepair as often, but that's just my theory.

Wellllll, erm, let's just say I support that theory, having some sufficient bit of empirical evidence to support it, and leave it at that.

If ya leave your tools just layin around, they get rusty, sure.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 5:37 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

We import people. That's why the population isn't falling. I meant to say our birth rate. Particularly here, it's tragically low.

You don't even have any kids, silly...Wouldn't go pickin' on them that choose what you have chosen. Walk 18 mile in a mom's shoes, then you get an informed opinion...

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 6:06 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Sig, your reaction is on par with those who think there is a god. Health benefits were never a " right ".

Rappy, your reaction is of a guy who never thinks. There is no mandate to offer health insurance but when you do, and you take government coin for it then you have to follow government rules.

Dong ma?

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Thursday, February 9, 2012 7:29 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

"Obama risks Catholic vote with birth-control mandate"

Yes, he really is risking a lot, isn't he? Especially since Catholics favor the government's position by an even larger margin than Americans in general do, and both groups favor it by a majority.

Obama's really running the risk of gaining some Catholic votes by implementing a policy that Republicans proposed a decade ago, and which 28 states have already passed into law.

So while complaining about "government telling religion what to do", I notice practically nobody on the right ever seems to get upset when it goes the other way. Here in Texas, we have religious people telling us that any pregnant woman who wants to get an abortion MUST have a vaginal ultrasound. They freely admit that this has nothing to do with the health of the mother or the health of the fetus; if it did, they'd mandate that EVERY pregnant woman would have to have it, but remember, these are the folks that don't like "mandates" from the government. Well, until they do, of course. With the backing of religion, they passed a law specifically aimed at punishing and shaming people who don't believe like they do.

I didn't hear a single so-called "conservative" say a disparaging word against this, either. And I doubt I ever will. So, if you can stick your stupid-ass religion's nose into my government, quit bitching and moaning when government decides to return the favor a bit.

And if you don't want to play by the government's rules, quit taking its money. I'm forced to pay to support government programs that are anathema to me; every war since WWII comes to mind. Since their against my beliefs and principles, can I just stop paying for them?

Also, if the Catholic church decides that they don't believe in child labor laws, can they just ignore those as well? Can the Mormon church simply declare that they aren't going to follow polygamy laws anymore, since they conflict with the church's principles and beliefs? What about Mormons who are really into fucking little kids, in emulation of the church's founder? Are they exempt from federal law because they really don't like the law?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, February 10, 2012 9:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

See update, which SHOULD end this discussion. I know it won't, tho'; some other excuse will be used to reject it.

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