REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Even Critics of Safety Net Increasingly Depend on It

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 09:27
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 951
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, February 13, 2012 6:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Ki Gulbranson owns a logo apparel shop, deals in jewelry on the side and referees youth soccer games. He makes about $39,000 a year and wants you to know that he does not need any help from the federal government.

He says that too many Americans lean on taxpayers rather than living within their means. He supports politicians who promise to cut government spending. In 2010, he printed T-shirts for the Tea Party campaign of a neighbor, Chip Cravaack, who ousted this region’s long-serving Democratic congressman.

Yet this year, as in each of the past three years, Mr. Gulbranson, 57, is counting on a payment of several thousand dollars from the federal government, a subsidy for working families called the earned-income tax credit. He has signed up his three school-age children to eat free breakfast and lunch at federal expense. And Medicare paid for his mother, 88, to have hip surgery twice.

There is little poverty here in Chisago County, northeast of Minneapolis, where cheap housing for commuters is gradually replacing farmland. But Mr. Gulbranson and many other residents who describe themselves as self-sufficient members of the American middle class and as opponents of government largess are drawing more deeply on that government with each passing year.

Dozens of benefits programs provided an average of $6,583 for each man, woman and child in the county in 2009, a 69 percent increase from 2000 after adjusting for inflation. In Chisago, and across the nation, the government now provides almost $1 in benefits for every $4 in other income.

Older people get most of the benefits, primarily through Social Security and Medicare, but aid for the rest of the population has increased about as quickly through programs for the disabled, the unemployed, veterans and children.

The government safety net was created to keep Americans from abject poverty, but the poorest households no longer receive a majority of government benefits. A secondary mission has gradually become primary: maintaining the middle class from childhood through retirement. The share of benefits flowing to the least affluent households, the bottom fifth, has declined from 54 percent in 1979 to 36 percent in 2007, according to a Congressional Budget Office analysis published last year.

And as more middle-class families like the Gulbransons land in the safety net in Chisago and similar communities, anger at the government has increased alongside. Many people say they are angry because the government is wasting money and giving money to people who do not deserve it. But more than that, they say they want to reduce the role of government in their own lives. They are frustrated that they need help, feel guilty for taking it and resent the government for providing it. They say they want less help for themselves; less help in caring for relatives; less assistance when they reach old age.

The expansion of government benefits has become an issue in the presidential campaign. Rick Santorum, who won 57 percent of the vote in Chisago County in the Republican presidential caucuses last week, has warned of “the narcotic of government dependency.” Newt Gingrich has compared the safety net to a spider web. Mitt Romney has said the nation must choose between an “entitlement society” and an “opportunity society.” All the candidates, including Ron Paul, have promised to cut spending and further reduce taxes.

The problem by now is familiar to most. Politicians have expanded the safety net without a commensurate increase in revenues, a primary reason for the government’s annual deficits and mushrooming debt. In 2000, federal and state governments spent about 37 cents on the safety net from every dollar they collected in revenue, according to a New York Times analysis. A decade later, after one Medicare expansion, two recessions and three rounds of tax cuts, spending on the safety net consumed nearly 66 cents of every dollar of revenue.

The recent recession increased dependence on government, and stronger economic growth would reduce demand for programs like unemployment benefits. But the long-term trend is clear. Over the next 25 years, as the population ages and medical costs climb, the budget office projects that benefits programs will grow faster than any other part of government, driving the federal debt to dangerous heights.

Americans are divided about the way forward. Seventy percent of respondents to a recent New York Times poll said the government should raise taxes. Fifty-six percent supported cuts in Medicare and Social Security. Forty-four percent favored both

Support for spending cuts runs strong in Chisago, where anger at the government helped fuel Mr. Cravaack’s upset victory in 2010 over James L. Oberstar, the Democrat who had represented northeast Minnesota for 36 years.

“Spending like this is simply unsustainable, and it’s time to cut up Washington, D.C.’s credit card,” Mr. Cravaack said in a February speech to the Hibbing Area Chamber of Commerce. “It may hurt now, but it will be absolutely deadly for the next generation — that’s our children and our grandchildren.”

But the reality of life here is that Mr. Gulbranson and many of his neighbors continue to take as much help from the government as they can get. When pressed to choose between paying more and taking less, many people interviewed here hemmed and hawed and said they could not decide. Some were reduced to tears. It is much easier to promise future restraint than to deny present needs.

“How do you tell someone that you deserve to have heart surgery and you can’t?” Mr. Gulbranson said.

He paused.

“You have to help and have compassion as a people, because otherwise you have no society, but financially you can’t destroy yourself. And that is what we’re doing.”

He paused again, unable to resolve the dilemma.

Mr. Gulbranson has tried several ways to make a living in the storefront he bought from his father in 1979. He ran a gift shop, then shifted to selling jewelry. Nine years ago, he moved the gold scales to the back and bought equipment for screen-printing clothing. Through it all, he has never made more than about $46,000 in a year.

Meanwhile, the cost of life — and of raising five children — has climbed inexorably.

“I used to go out and try to have a meal at Perkins, which is a restaurant here, and get out of the store with $5,” Mr. Gulbranson said. “And now it’s probably up to $10.”

In recent years he has earned so little that he did not pay federal income taxes, although he still paid thousands of dollars toward Medicare and Social Security. The earned-income tax credit is intended to offset those payroll taxes, to encourage people with lower-paying jobs to remain in the work force.

Mr. Gulbranson said the money covered the fees for his children’s sports leagues and the cost of keeping the older ones on the family’s car insurance.

“If we didn’t get these government things, then probably my kids could not participate in some of the sports they do,” he said. Lots more at http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/12/us/even-critics-of-safety-net-increa
singly-depend-on-it.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

A good point, in my opinion. I find it interesting that he's in a quandry about his kids participating in sports, while there are those who worry more about putting enough food on the table, while (as mentioned) the "safety net" for the really poor has been lessened. But the facts are valid; many of those crying "smaller government" are quite willing to TAKE from the very same government at the same time. Interesting.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 6:47 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"many of those crying "smaller government" are quite willing to TAKE from the very same government at the same time. Interesting."



Hello,

It is not an unusual phenomenon. Throughout my entire life, people have been clamoring to be forced into doing things that match their ideals. Recycling is a good example. Many more people advocated recycling than actually recycled. Advocates of recycling would often be just as wasteful as their neighbors who snubbed recycling. It is in many people's nature to be lazy and follow the paths of least resistance. Yet even those lazy folks had ideals, and many of them supported recycling efforts until laws were made to enforce them.

Many environmental issues are like this, actually. Food issues are like this, too. I don't forego my hamburger even though I suspect the source cow suffered greatly. Yet I'd advocate a law requiring all cows to be treated as well as possible. In essence, rather than go through the trouble of finding and acquiring a source of happy cows myself, I'd ask for a law that requires all cows to be happy cows- while meanwhile gorging myself on unhappy cows. (Though I do go through the trouble of finding air-chilled chicken, for reasons unrelated to animal welfare.)

I may drive a gas-guzzler while advocating for tighter mileage restrictions. The list of hyppocritical behaviors at odds with my advocacy is endless. And so, I may cash checks from the government while wishing for smaller government. I suspect many do.

You yourself, Niki, have advocated for this type of behavior. You said Obama and the Democrats were perfectly logical in accepting PAC money while rejecting the PAC concept.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 7:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Untrue. I decried the use of PACs and if I wasn't clear enough, believe they're pretty much FORCED to use it when it comes to a Presidential campaign. It's not MY choice and I don't like it, I see it as being a necessary reality at the present time. I'm nonetheless fighting in my way against super PACs.

There are many things I don't like and wouldn't do MYSELF--and don't do myself. And I'm supporting a Congressional candidate who not only won't take PAC money, but won't take corporate money either--in Marin, he's already got a pretty damned good war chest from those who believe the same. Maybe he'll win, maybe he won't, but HERE at least, he's got a pretty good shot.

What I will or won't do MYSELF is one matter, what I accept as necessary in one instance isn't the whole story, and I'm only responsible for myself.

Yes, there are lots of dichotomies; I use a computer, despite disliking the use of energy and our planned-obsolescence society; I mitigate that by only having bought two computers in ten years, and that only because the previous computer was unrepairable. I do things in some cases because I can't afford to do otherwise. And yes, I eat hamburgers occasionally and chicken frequently, so in that case I'm totally hypocritical. Go after that if you want to, but not how I feel about someone ELSE's decisions. That's a different matter.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 7:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Untrue. I decried the use of PACs and if I wasn't clear enough, believe they're pretty much FORCED to use it when it comes to a Presidential campaign. It's not MY choice and I don't like it, I see it as being a necessary reality at the present time. I'm nonetheless fighting in my way against super PACs."

Hello,

Like the recycling advocate who doesn't always recycle. I suspect your presidential vote will be with the PAC opponent who uses PACs.

I'm not chastising you. I'm telling you that the behavior is not unusual, even unto our own daily lives.

Our ideals are almost always bigger than our actions, and we frequently want to be forced into behaviors that we idealize, but don't always put into practice otherwise.

Given what you've just said, I'm not sure how you can disagree?

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 7:59 AM

FREMDFIRMA



But it's a trap, you see, cause again - taking someones money, chewing it down to the bone with administrative costs and then throwing a pittance back, that ain't charity, far from it, and if they didn't take and take and take and take, a lotta folks wouldn't "need" that so-called "help" which in most cases amounts to far less than what was took.

Given how much money our Gov pisses down a hole to finance the warfare-welfare machine, and casts into the ether of the black bag alphabet goons who are in fact directly or indirectly RESPONSIBLE for most of the problems they were created to, or are supposed to solve...

Every penny wrenched from the teeth of that bloodsoaked machine to put food on a persons table, fuel in their car, clothes on their back, or even to adjust the comfort of their life, is a victory in my eyes, one for humanity, rather than the deathgods.

They loot us, well, those that loot back have my blessing and sympathy, even if their intent is unwholesome.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 8:33 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Sort of like President Obama decrying SuperPACs, yet using them for campaign funds?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Oops. Already covered. Too much of a rush.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 8:36 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Sort of like President Obama decrying SuperPACs, yet using them for campaign funds?

"Keep the Shiny side up"



Hello,

I already mentioned that one.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 9:46 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I already mentioned that one.

--Anthony



And better, as well.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 6:35 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


A person can talk trash about government programs to help the poor, elderly and disabled, but if he can't take care of his aging mother and his touched sister himself without any financial assistance then he'd better stop whinging about the government spending money on it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 7:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Sort of like President Obama decrying SuperPACs, yet using them for campaign funds?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Oops. Already covered. Too much of a rush.




So, are they evil or hypocrites for doing what they say shouldn't be done?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, February 13, 2012 8:35 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Sort of like President Obama decrying SuperPACs, yet using them for campaign funds?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Oops. Already covered. Too much of a rush.




So, are they evil or hypocrites for doing what they say shouldn't be done?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill



Hello,

Definitely hypocrites. That's the definition of it. Or as my parents taught me: Do as I say, not as I do.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:06 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So, are they evil or hypocrites for doing what they say shouldn't be done?



Could be folks have to rationalize sometimes.

There's folks who are against nuclear or coal electrical plants who nevertheless believe they have to use the output of those plants because they can't afford to go off the grid.

The subject of the article in the first post probably figures he's getting back some of the taxes he pays in EITC, unlike folks who don't work and freeload on welfare.

Obama supporters figure that he's FORCED to use SuperPAC money, or else give up an advantage in the presidential race.

Fiscal conservative Romney supporters hope that if he's elected he'll back off on the conservative social agenda.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree with Geezer as to it being "rationalizing". Yes, unless we return to an agrarian way of life, there are myriad things we are forced to accept in which we don't believe. That's how I feel about superPACs, while at the same time I am part of Movetoamend.org, which is fighting for a Constitutional amendment to get rid of them.

Also; if my values were so strong that I refused to vote for anyone who used SuperPACs, please tell me exactly who I WOULD vote for?? Even Ron Paul has them, so unless I accept that all candidates are forced to use them in order to compete, who's left?



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:27 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Fiscal conservative Romney supporters hope that if he's elected he'll back off on the conservative social agenda.


In their dreams, what's more like to happen is him dropping the fiscally conservative fiction-front and ramping up the social agenda, yanno, like every other one of these punkass bitches has done, Walker, Snyder, and the whole bloody rest of them.

Lest anyone forget, I know what a monster Romney is because for more than two decades I was involved in picking up the pieces of the distaster he made his bankroll from - the hellcamps, and sure the financial fuckery he's engaged in is nothing to sneeze at, but there's a long damn difference between bilking someone out of their savings and putting them in a fuckin concentration camp for profit.

I find it galling just how effectively the media is suppressing this and other skeletons in that mans closet, and even more so that the friggin Dems are complicit in such - why hide your enemies flaws, unless they're not really an enemy and the whole game is a magicians handfake, right ?

There is no punishment great enough for what that man has done, and since he believes in hell I sincerely hope he burns there - for all eternity.
And that STILL ain't enough.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
The Olive Branch (Or... a proposed Reboot)
Sun, November 24, 2024 19:17 - 3 posts
Musk Announces Plan To Buy MSNBC And Turn It Into A News Network
Sun, November 24, 2024 19:05 - 1 posts
Punishing Russia With Sanctions
Sun, November 24, 2024 18:05 - 565 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Sun, November 24, 2024 18:01 - 953 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Sun, November 24, 2024 17:13 - 7497 posts
Elections; 2024
Sun, November 24, 2024 16:24 - 4799 posts
US debt breaks National Debt Clock
Sun, November 24, 2024 14:13 - 33 posts
The predictions thread
Sun, November 24, 2024 13:15 - 1189 posts
The mysteries of the human mind: cell phone videos and religiously-driven 'honor killings' in the same sentence. OR How the rationality of the science that surrounds people fails to penetrate irrational beliefs.
Sun, November 24, 2024 13:11 - 18 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Sun, November 24, 2024 13:05 - 4762 posts
Sweden Europe and jihadi islamist Terror...StreetShitters, no longer just sending it all down the Squat Toilet
Sun, November 24, 2024 13:01 - 25 posts
MSNBC "Journalist" Gets put in his place
Sun, November 24, 2024 12:40 - 2 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL