Reality Changes by Oonjerah

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Reality Changes

POSTED BY: OONJERAH
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 12:17
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 1976
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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:16 PM

Everyone here, probably, remembers where they were & what they were doing
on Tuesday, September 11th, 2001.
I was in the yard looking thru a box of useless stuff when my daughter told
me to turn on the TV because someone had attacked us.

I don't remember what I was doing on Septemer 2, 1945 when Japan surrendered,
ending WWII. I was 2 years 9 months old.
I very vaguely recall thinking something like, "You mean, my country's not
fighting a war anymore? But my country has always been fighting a war."
US fighting a war was one of my earliest "realities," because we lived by
Alameda Naval Air Station.

Most of us who are 56 or older remember where we were & what we were doing on
Friday, November 22, 1963.

I was on my way to the store. But someone had left the car radio on & they were
talking about someone being shot. I put the car in reverse and backed up to the
house. I rushed in the told Mom, "Quick, turn on the TV!"

"Why?"

"I think Kennedy's been shot!"

My Aunt Alice hated Kennedy sr with a passion. My mom was a lifelong Republican,
but she liked John Kennedy.
Let's face it: He was charismatic and he gave good speech.
Before the TV came on, she began to cry and said, "Who could do a terrible thing
like that?"
She was naive. So was I.

I was always so pround and grateful to be an American. We were noble and brave;
we always wore the white hat.

On that day, my reality began to change again, very slowly.
When Ruby shot Oswald, was allowed to shoot Oswald, did I think, "set up!
conspiracy!"? Nope.
It took a long, long time for me to become as cynical as I am now. It took the
Great Crash of 2008.

Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

yeah. The timing of the crash is gorram suspicious.

On Kennedy, I grew up in the South. Lots of folks I knew liked him, and of course FDR, so 'Democrat' wasn't such a dirty word back then.

Or so I thought.

I was an adult, or just so, when I heard the stories of some folks actually celebrating the news that Kennedy got shot. Found it hard to believe, any Americans would cheer at something so heinous.

Sucks growing up sometimes.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:26 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I enjoy talking about where I was when significant things happened, my dad has always stressed the importance of remembering where you were when things happened. On Sept. 11th my mother woke me up for school, I was 15, and said something horrible had happened, that a plane had crashed into the world trade center. I thought it was just a horrible accident until the second plane hit. My first thought at that point, fleeting but still notable, was that I'd missed the rapture and everything would get bad on earth now. Of course brief consideration got rid of that idea, my mom was still there too, the liklihood was quite low, why would two pilots by flying right next to the world trade center and both smash into it ...
... Attack? The news guy said it gravely and it made way more sense than my quickly dismissed theory, it made horrible sense.

My dad called and said to keep me home, but I found myself at school anyways and everyone was just as confused as I was, our math teacher was from New York and had to take some time out of the classroom in the middle of our algebra lesson to compose himself. All the teachers thought it would be better if we just acted like it was a normal day, no talking about it etc.

That night at high school group at church we went and prayed with the adults about it, what should our country do next? What would happen now? I remember my friend Sharon being very upset because her boyfriend was in the military and she wondered if he'd have to go to war. He actually finished his stint without incident and they got married, but we didn't know at the time how things would go.

I wasn't around for any of those other events. My dad was at school when he heard about Kennedy.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 3:45 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

After living in the country for several years as a legal immigrant, my father was being sworn in as a U.S. citizen. The proceedings were interrupted so that a man could announce that the president of the United States had just been shot. My father cleverly surmised that the information must be a loyalty test. The swearing-in ceremony was completed, and everyone was dismissed. It was only then, when everyone was leaving, that he became alarmed. Where was the reveal that the President had not really been shot? There was none. Kennedy had been shot and killed. My father was dumbfounded that such a thing could occur.

The incident so affected him that he became an avid student of the event. He quickly became consumed by the idea of a conspiracy surrounding the assassination. The event has so many irregularities associated with it that I can't blame him for this point of view.

---

I was working at a Call Center in South Florida when a British friend sent me an email. A plane crashed into the World Trade Center. He said it was likely intentional. My friend was the sort of fellow who I gauged might be able to judge such things. Shortly, a second plane impact confirmed the supposition. It was remarkable to me that this news came to me first from England. The business closed for the day and they sent us home.

While I was home, watching the events unfold on the television, a call came in. It was one of my credit card companies, calling about overdue payments on a card I didn't use. They claimed the owed sum was in the tens of thousands of dollars. I said that was absurd, and that I'd never received any indication of any debt. They asked to confirm my address. As I listened to them read the address from their system, a feeling of dread came over me. It was not my address, but it was familiar. It was the address of my then mother-in-law.

That was the beginning of the end of my first marriage. Perhaps selfishly, when I watched the endless replays of the towers falling, I could not help but think of my own life crumbling down as well.

I guess I'll always remember my Dad's story of where he was when the world changed. His lifelong fascination with President Kennedy and his death meant that many of my childhood memories include sitting with my Dad as he was watching VHS tapes he'd purchased about irregularities surrounding the killing. Whenever he was watching these tapes, he'd look at me and tell me the story of where he was when Kennedy died, as though it was happening anew.

I'll also always remember where I was when 9/11 happened because that day marked the beginning of the end of one chapter of my life. Nothing has ever been the same since, but a lot of it has been better.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 4:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

I was on my way to work on Sept. 11; I had stopped for gas, but left the radio playing while I gassed up. Guy next to me remarked on it when the news broke, and I off-handedly said, "Yeah, that happened before - the Empire State Building had a B-25 crash into it in '45 or '46..."

I thought it was a fluke, an accident. Then the second one hit.

I don't remember thinking of anything when Kennedy was shot, because I was a little over a year old. I think back on what it must have been like for my parents back then. We were living right outside D.C.; my dad was with NSA during the Cuban Missile Crisis, when things were quite literally on the brink of global nuclear war, and he had a wife and four kids to think about every day when he went off to work.

I was at work when Challenger exploded. I had the radio on, and they cut in saying they were switching over to MIssion Control for news on the space shuttle Challenger. I made a wisecrack to a co-worker: "Why, did it blow up or something?"

Then we got the horrible news.

I was in Houston poring through a junkyard for rare CRX parts when I heard about Columbia burning up on reentry. Houston was very subdued that day, being so close to the Johnson Space Center.

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe... All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:15 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I was actually doing minor housework at the time, and I get a call from a friend - "You want to turn the TV on..."

And as I watched my first sensation was that of a deep, overpowering sense of failure, the "bill" for our foreign policy coming due in the most horrible way imagineable, that the events myself and others had so long tried to prevent had finally, awfully, come to fruition - and knowing reason would mean nothing to hurt and angry people, simply turned off the television and quietly got drunk.

Right at the end of that though, a tremendous feeling of suspicion started growing, especially since I already knew about the FBI helping Ramzi Youssef back in 1993 - where were the safeguards, no, wait, this doesn't make sense...
And I turned the TV back on, watching closely and flash-flash-flash, crack-crack-crack, and the first tower falls, perfectly straight down into it's own footprint...
And I KNEW, right then, right there, KNEW, you understand ?
I saw it all coming, the refusal to listen to reason, the rush to war, the abject stupidity, the loss of freedoms, the drive to fascism, all staring me right in the face as the obvious cutter charges went off in the second tower.

Then I went and got really, really drunk.
Cause really, what else to do ?
I did try, futile that it was, to stand against the headlong rush into the inevitable fiasco and police state, but at the time wasn't nobody going to listen, but I had to try.
Didn't make me too many friends that, who got even madder when it played it just like I told em and they looked for anyone to blame but themselves.

*sigh*

I'd really rather not talk about it, right now.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 5:29 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Anthony, those are extremely interesting accounts, especially about your father getting sworn in as a citizen right when Kennedy was assassinated and thinking it was a test of loyalty to see how they'd react. Your other account was interesting too, your family and yourself seem to be alligned with significant events, giving them different meaning and significance for you along with their regular effect.

Frem, it looks like you just did, but you don't have to anymore if you don't want.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 6:41 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

OONJERAH- You've been through a lot and seen a lot, so I'm wondering- what was it about the crash of 2008 which was so different?

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:13 PM

OONJERAH

It was an accumulative effect.

You're only half right, Signym. I have been thru a lot personally, always in survival, could barely see past my own nose.
I'd been raised ignorant of politics as my folks had been with a course in HS civics which gave me principles only. I didn't
know how to look at us/USA objectively or aware; I didn't have room in my head for it; I was an Ostrich.

The Kennedy assassination was an alarm, but it didn't change me into a politically aware citizen.
All the messing around in Viet Nam ... plenty to learn there on both sides of the coin ... but I didn't. All I knew about Nam
was, if ppl want to despise our soldiers, I'd get in their face about it.

1975, Rollerball, James Caan, John Houseman. I loved that movie for the action, for the heroics of "Jonathan-Jonathan-
Jonathan!" I don't remember when I began to understand it. "Oh gee ... this movie is about Big Business taking the whole
world back to Feudalism." I didn't know that President Eisenhower and many others had long warned us. The movie entertained
me in hopes of waking me up. But I was groggy.

I completely ignored the Iran-Contra affair. I don't know anything about it now. I knew nothing about what our foreign policy
had become until about 2009 when I happened to watch a couple of Speaking Freely dvds (on YouTube & NetFlix). We were
a Monster! I began to wake up.

Terrorism popped up around the world a lot during the reign of George Bush sr and Bill Clinton. We didn't get hit, as far as I knew,
until I heard one of our ships did.(?) George protected "our" oil via the Gulf War. Clinton, near as I could tell, did nothing.
We were sorta like sitting ducks. Then along came George jr, the World Trade Center destruction on 9/11, and off we went to
War while saner heads were shouting, trying to be heard with the facts and existing laws.

Frem: "the first tower falls, perfectly straight down into it's own footprint," yeah, it did. "the obvious cutter charges
went off in the second tower." Did we do it to ourselves to drive Americans mad? Noam Chomsky says he considers that nearly
impossible considering the lack of secrecy our secret agents have. Noam, "There would have been a leak."

I don't remember when I watched Inside Job, a doc that covers the anatomy of the 2008 crash. 2009, early 2010. Things
are very-very wrong here.

I came here to FFF.Net where Signym said that it is someone's job to get rid of all the decent jobs in the USA. i.e., I said, all the
stupid outsourcing is a plan to destroy the middle class. Feudalism, here we come! This recession is not scheduled to end for
the common folk.

Looking back, I believed that the systematic destruction of my country's democracy began with the assassination of JFK. I may
well be wrong. I can tell the younger ones how it was for us in the 50's, 60's. We were a bigoted and chauvinistic country,
but most of us felt well off, fat and happy as long as we had jobs.

Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:42 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Another couple I remembered

When Princess Diana died, I'm not a royalist but it strangely affected me. I was painting my friend's house. She was going through separation and getting ready to sell. I think a lot of women identified with Di, having thought they'd married the prince, he had just turned out to be a big eared git who was in love with someone else.

9/11 I awoke to the news. It had all happened overnight. I remember thinking that maybe building cities of vast glass towers was probably not the best idea.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 2:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Another couple I remembered

When Princess Diana died, I'm not a royalist but it strangely affected me. I was painting my friend's house. She was going through separation and getting ready to sell. I think a lot of women identified with Di, having thought they'd married the prince, he had just turned out to be a big eared git who was in love with someone else.

Reason I remember that event so well was that I was at a friend's. There were several of us, catching up , over a long weekend. Everyone was outside on the front deck, chatting away, and I had stepped inside for a moment. As I saw the news flash across the t.v., I knew instantly that our nice little reunion was about to be predictably dominated by the death of the former Princess , across the pond. We were at that age where we all saw and remembered the build up for Di and Charles's wedding, the stuff of fairy tales it was made out to be. So of course, the girls in the group especially were going to be affected most...

I turned the t.v. off, and simply went out side.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 4:47 AM

CAVETROLL

I was in high school when Reagan was shot. I remember thinking; "Is this going to be another JFK?" When Challenger exploded I didn't hear about it. I was working on a piece of equipment in my company's garage. I didn't hear about it until I went to the main building to clean up at the end of the day. As I recall, the shuttle went down in the mid-morning east coast time. I was ignorant until almost 5pm. On 9/11 I was woken up by my girlfriend, right after the 1st plane hit. I recalled a documentary on the twin towers, that they were designed to take the impact of a fully loaded 707. We were watching as the second plane hit. My mind didn't seem to want to accept the fact that we were under attack. I sought frantically for another explanation. A pilot mesmerized by the fire and smoke from the first plane's impact. (At the time there was no available footage of the first plane. The news channels were reporting it was a light aircraft.) Then I realized, there was no mistaking it, we were under attack.

Sadly, I was watching CNN that Saturday morning when Columbia burned up on reentry. Bill Hemmer was the morning anchor and he was showing a picture of several smoke trails and saying that they'd lost communication with the space shuttle. He was saying; "We're not sure what we're looking at." I did. They were the reentry contrails of debris from the shuttle. I just told my girlfriend; "We just lost another shuttle." Another shuttle. How unthinkable to lose one, let alone two.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:06 AM

BYTEMITE

I can't say I understand this obsession Americans have developed with celebrity (and by extension celebrity marriages). Seems like a complete waste of time.

You can spend your life envying someone else and wishing you were them, or you can live your life and be yourself.

As for 9-11... It was a tragedy to be sure, and life changing for the families who had loved ones who died, but my world is not so easily mutable. My reality did not change - danger has always been part of it. I am not more afraid than I was, I am not more suspicious than I was, and I do not approve of the changes that have been forced on us.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:11 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I remember Willie Nelson wrote a song about the Columbia, back for her maiden voyage. So proud were we as Americans. Jimmy Buffett featured a shuttle on one of his albums,...I still
have it.

Losing Columbia hurt even more, in some ways.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I was in high school when the first Kennedy was shot. We were excused and I went home and found out why, and wept with the nation. I liked JFK, but was already more interested in Bobby, and when that happened, it really hit home.

I missed the Challenger, dunno why, but I have no memory of it.

Di's death I was watching TV, and it hit me hard. She was a symbol to me, as well as someone I felt very sad for, what with her life, anorexia, how the royal family treated her and what an asshole Charles was. To me she was an innocent who wasn't prepared for what he went into, and it was the first time I wondered about conspiracies.

I was in Southend, in England, when the first man stepped on the moon. I remember it clearly; for reasons too long to explain, I was there because a pen pal and I exchanged holidays; we'd treated him to everything, drove him all over California, but it turned out he expected me to "put out", and when I wouldn't, when it was my turn he dumped me on his parents (with whom he lived) and ignored me. The whole family was gathered in one room watching the TV as I walked by, but I had hibernated the entire time I was there in the room they gave me, reading cheap romance novels, so went back to my room.

As to 9/11, again I was watching TV at the time, and as the first reports grew into something more, I sat horrified like everyone else.

For those of us around here, where you were when the Loma Prieta hit is another thing nobody forgets. It was our day off and we were feeding the dogs when it hit; here in Marin it was still a pretty hefty 'quake. I remember that clear as day. I also remember the aftermath, cooking a huge batch of spaghetti and getting free sourdough from the local bakery to take in to the displaced folk in the Marina. When I got back to work (worked on the 32nd floor in S.F. at the time), I was REAL grateful I hadn't been there; a co-worker was in the break room, which had floor-to-ceiling windows, and she watched the high rises sway. Yeah, they're built to, but I never would have forgotten THAT! I still worry frequently about Jim, who works as an admin. asst. on the bottom floor of a five-story cement parking garage, and whish to hell he'd quit before another big one comes.

I guess I started paying some attention to politics when JFK was shot, tho' it was a minor interest. Bobby's assassination and King's increased my belief in conspiracies, and yes, when JFK's killer was murdered. But it lay dormant for a long time until my 30s nonetheless. I've always been semi-convinced LBJ was behind JFK's death somehow...

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 11:46 AM

OONJERAH

Wikipedia, "List of assassinated people," (subheadings) Americas,
United States the list includes John Lennon and Tupac Shakur, but not Karen Silkwood:
"Speculation about foul play has never been substantiated."

Note: Some of you may have noticed that I don't say "America" or "American" much.
Because America is two big continents, the United States just a small part of it.
I usually refer to my county as "the United States." For my countrymen, I may say "a
US citizen" or "ppl in the United States." <= that one, a bulky, awkward phrase.
I do it out of respect for all the Americans who are Not my countrymen and because
I am literal-minded.

Quote Niki2: "I've always been semi-convinced LBJ was behind JFK's death somehow..."

A neighbor of mine said just that a couple of days ago. After all, it happened in Texas.

Quote Bytemite: "As for 9-11... It was a tragedy to be sure, & life changing for the
families who had loved ones who died, but my world is not so easily mutable. My
reality did not change - danger has always been part of it. I am not more afraid than
I was, I am not more suspicious than I was, and I do not approve of the changes that
have been forced on us."

I repeat, I was naive and purposely out of touch most of my life. As an adult, I know
that My Country was never as pure and heroic as I believed as a child. Individuals are
not perfect, neither are groups of them. I feel it's very important to learn history,
good, bad & indifferent. That way, one can love their country without childish illusions.

Was the USA ever a democracy? We started going downhill means to me, the government
changed; the military-industrial complex gained too much power; I lost (some/all?)
civil rights that the constitution grants me.

Did we go downhill in my lifetime? Or were we always here and I finally woke up?

Once awake, sipping caffeine ... thinking, "But we are supposed to be free. We are
supposed to have rights. We the people have to find a way to restore our freedoms."
Am I awake yet?

Can Reality be changed by The People?

Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 12:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Quote Niki2: "I've always been semi-convinced LBJ was behind JFK's death somehow..."

Dunno about all of that, but one of the more creepy things I heard were the audio taped conversations between LBJ and the widow Jackie Kennedy, not too long after the funeral. The man was hitting on her, plain as day. Maybe things were " different " back then, but it sure was tough to hear.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:01 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Raptor, yeah that sounds ooky, and he's married anyways, poor Jaqui

I was a baby when Challenger happened. I don't really remember Colunbia, can you believe that? I mean it wasn't that long ago, I think I was on my way home from my grandma's house but that's all I remember, of course they talked about it on the news afterwords, but that doesn't count.

In my mind I'm sitting on the chair in the basement on the phone with my then best friend when I heard that Diana died, I don't remember whether she told me or whether my dad came downstairs and told me, I was about ten.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, April 29, 2012 7:01 PM

OONJERAH

RFK assassination witness tells CNN: There was a second shooter =>
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/28/justice/california-rfk-second-gun/?hpt=h
p_c2

Los Angeles (CNN) -- As a federal court prepares to rule on a challenge to
Sirhan Sirhan's conviction in the Robert F. Kennedy assassination, a long
overlooked witness to the murder is telling her story: She heard two guns
firing during the 1968 shooting and authorities altered her account of the
crime.

Nina Rhodes-Hughes wants the world to know that, despite what history
says, Sirhan was not the only gunman firing shots when Senator Kennedy
was murdered a few feet away from her at a Los Angeles hotel.

"What has to come out is that there was another shooter to my right," Rhodes-
Hughes said in an exclusive interview with CNN. "The truth has got to be told.
No more cover-ups."

Like I said, "They" killed 'em both.

. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.

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Monday, April 30, 2012 3:54 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Was the USA ever a democracy? We started going downhill means to me, the government
changed; the military-industrial complex gained too much power; I lost (some/all?)
civil rights that the constitution grants me.

Unfortunately, I don't think we ever were. That's the problem with a representative government, it's never truly democratic and doesn't have the turn-overs and routing ability in regards to corruption that a truly democratic society has.

There's always been a small group of people who've wanted to turn the U.S. into a new kingdom since the beginning. They offered George Washington the crown, and he was savvy enough to turn it down, but not savvy enough to not buddy up with them.

They've been building steam ever since... And you're right, the effect started to snowball after Ike warned us and JFK was shot.

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Monday, April 30, 2012 3:58 AM

CAVETROLL

Over the weekend I watched a movie called Larry Crowne with Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts. It started out uncomfortably as Hanks' character is fired for not having a college education. But the events that follow along would be familiar to anyone who has survived hardship during this economic crisis.

Predictably, there's a love story, which feels kind of forced. The real story is Hanks and Roberts characters weathering hardships and turmoil.

It is good when cinema allows us to escape from our problems of the day.

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Tuesday, June 5, 2012 12:17 PM

OONJERAH

Last Evening :>

When I went to the store, I shoulda either got in a different check-out line, OR --
I shoulda geared myself up to be a Bitch in Public. But I tend to go brain dead in
the check out line instead of Warrior Mode.

There were Black people in the grocery store; usually there aren't. I bought an Aunt
Jemima breakfast; usually, I don't. The young fella who checked me out made fun of it.

"O, hey, it's Aunt Jemima! You remember her!" he said to the bagger gal. "She used
to always fix me breakfast when I was a kid!"

Now ... this is not bad, not gross ... more playful than anything. But I was embarrassed,
and I looked around to see if any Negroes had overheard. No. Later, I realized I was
also embarrassed by him making fun of my food.

I wish I had told him to keep the breakfast and shove it up his ass.

I have promised myself several times before that I wouldn't shop there. Not for rudeness,
but for poor quality. Thus I will redouble my efforts to Stay Out of SaveMart!

=========================
I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. ~Charles R Swindoll

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