Wow - North Korea agrees to suspend nuclear weapons tests and uranium enrichment by pizmobeach

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

It reminds me of Star Trek VI.

Buying them off is cheaper than war. I suspect they no longer have the resources to even make pretenses anymore, and so have caved to pressure in exchange for loot.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 11:38 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Again?

They do this every few years, to keep getting U.S. food aid - supposedly for their citizens - that they can redirect to their military and government workers.

Then they move all the nuclear stuff underground and keep working, and wait to get caught so they can do the same thing over again.

They do the same with their ballistic missle programs.

See:

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 1:12 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Again?

They do this every few years, to keep getting U.S. food aid - supposedly for their citizens - that they can redirect to their military and government workers.

Then they move all the nuclear stuff underground and keep working, and wait to get caught so they can do the same thing over again.

They do the same with their ballistic missle programs.

See:

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron

"Keep the Shiny side up"

I saw mention of that in the article - maybe that's how our envoys started the discussion? "Again?"
Maybe we'll demand better verifications?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:27 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Maybe now that they have it they don't feel the need to use it, because having it was all they really wanted?

Geezer's theory makes sense too, and the synic in me leans towards it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Maybe now that they have it they don't feel the need to use it, because having it was all they really wanted?

Sounds like someone's adventures in dating.

Not mine, of course. But someone's.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:38 PM

I object.

So long as there is even one starving american on our streets, I stand against deliving "metric tons" of food to any other country.

What rooks me worst is we have the ABILITY to correct that, and do not.

-F

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:45 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Raptor, :)

Frem, I see what you mean, I think we might do well to reduce the food we send overseas, I can't quite say no period, but that is the direction I'm heading in and eventually I think I might get there, but we would need to reduce it gradually so that other solutions can be found so they don't expect us to do it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:13 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I object.

So long as there is even one starving american on our streets, I stand against deliving "metric tons" of food to any other country.

What rooks me worst is we have the ABILITY to correct that, and do not.

-F

Hello,

You know what's remarkable?

What's remarkable is that we can send a quarter-million tons of food somewhere, practically without notice, and not even feel the lack.

That's how much food we have to spare.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:33 PM

Exactly, and somehow we can't feed our own ?
I don't buy that, never have, never will.
What that MEANS, is that the horrors of starvation faced by our poor are entirely deliberate.

Our "leaders" have much to answer for, in that respect.

-F

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:11 AM

I was thinkin about this a bit, and it does strike me also as out of sorts that we'd tie the aid offer to them not being able to defend themselves against us rather than humanitarian concerns - given how we used sanctions and inspections to make SURE Iraq was all but defenseless before we attacked em, in the same way school bullies rat out potentially packing victims to ensure their own safety...

Seems like our concern is more that they might be able to stand off our aggression rather than any concern for the health and welfare of their people, and I really, really don't like the thought of that, not when the nuclear bludgeon is the ONLY thing proven to mitigate our aggressive meddling.

And of course the first question that should always come to mind when someone else wants you to ground arms or surrender them, is what are their intentions that they'd rather you not be ABLE to resist ?

Siggy has mentioned how people are shaped by early experiences, and I must admit in concept there's some truth here cause the first thing what comes to mind is that scene in the kitchen from my earliest childhood, of my abusive father, wounded and limping, demanding I put down the knife and "be reasonable" while balling one fist behind his leg where he thought I didn't see it...
Yeah, I knew why he wanted me to put down that knife, and I knew damn well what was gonna happen if I did.

North Korea should tell us to piss off.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:25 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Given that imagery I would say you were definitely shaped by your childhood, you have that always-on anger and distrust - you've got more than a little junkyard dog in you - doubt that's the first time you've heard that. You probably won't be surprised either to hear that that may not be the most objective position to judge something from...?

I've adjusted my expectations of all governments downward. For instance: I don't expect them to feed the poor so I'm not disappointed when they don't. When was the last time - or ever - that they did something that any of us thought, "wow, they did a great job with that!"

This NK thing - if it's true great, we can feed our own starving and still send them food so that's not a deal breaker to me. If it's more hokem, fine, it's better than threats.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 7:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
They do this every few years, to keep getting U.S. food aid - supposedly for their citizens - that they can redirect to their military and government workers.

Then they move all the nuclear stuff underground and keep working, and wait to get caught so they can do the same thing over again.

That's about it as far as I'm concerned. Which is why I ignore the "rattle sabers, sheath sabers" bullshit as it goes back and forth, back and forth.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 7:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Given that imagery I would say you were definitely shaped by your childhood, you have that always-on anger and distrust - you've got more than a little junkyard dog in you - doubt that's the first time you've heard that. You probably won't be surprised either to hear that that may not be the most objective position to judge something from...?

GRRRRRRR!

Ain't about bein objective as is it a counterpoint to the assumption that grounding arms in the face of threat is always a good idea - it isn't like I pretend not to have biases or agendas, everyone does and I do try to be more upfront about it.

That said, it wasn't JUST that incident, so much as the constant non-stop reinforcement of that viewpoint, over and over which calcified it to where my FIRST response to a call to ground arms is to become IMMENSELY suspicious of motive, and consider a pre-emptive first strike - note that I say consider, cause I can be reasonable, but when the rationale usually offered is "So we can do stuff to you that you would not consent to" it certainly don't help the case.
I mentioned it here before, that it wasn't too long after that a fellow student was kicked to death in a stairwell at my school immediately after being disarmed - the punks he stood up to ratted him out and THEN attacked him afterwords.

And so on, and so forth - years and years worth of folks wanting to remove my ability to resist them visiting their bad intentions upon me has certainly colored my perspective, sure...
But still, it *IS* always worth asking "What are your intentions?" because often as not even the lies they tell you reveal as much as truths.

ETA: I don't exactly MIND feedin anyone, better than bombing them for sure, but we ought feed our own first, or at least in addition, and that we do not really annoys me.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 11:57 AM

OONJERAH

The poor and homeless can easily get free food in this county if they have transportation to get to it. None of the
free food is "off the farm." It is canned and packaged as if super market surplus. A few government commodities sneak in.

A free hot meal served daily is done by the Catholic church here. No sermons, no prayers. Among the homeless there, a
trouble maker may show up, just looking for a fight. Are such people high on drugs or just crazy? I dunno.

Senior citizens can get meals on wheels for free.
No famine here that I know of.

The welfare state is still working -- for now.
Excuse the OT.

Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 6:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Wow - North Korea agrees to suspend nuclear weapons tests and uranium enrichment

That's just because the North Koreans are all too busy watching the South Korean music videos!

It's what I said YEARS before about the Middle East.

Since we're a nation of pussies that won't lob a bomb back when they bomb our Twin Towers, we need a more subtle and long term approach.

Take a step back and ask why they're so vehemently religious in the Middle East. It's because 90% of them have nothing but the sand in their ass cracks. At least if you're poor in America you can still bum enough off the rich folk in big cities to get another bottle of cheap booze, even in these times.

In the Middle East, you have oil, or you are a slave to those who do. The only other alternative is being a "good" person and shunning any creature comforts and immersing yourself completely in religion. The "Haves" know that full well and easily manipulate a lot of the "have nots".

I digress. I'm glad to see that North Korea seems to be on board these days.

If we want the Middle East to catch up, I propose a 3 prong approach.

1) Irrigate their shit-hole of land so that it can accept vegitation.

2) After grass can finally be grown there, send them cows and chickens.

3) After McDonalds opens on every street corner because they don't have to import beef anymore, get the kids hooked on cable TV and in a generation or two they'll be shunning the old ways.

Hey... I'm a "White" guy. That doesn't mean that my Polock Grandpa didn't hate "Old Blue Eyes" for any reason other than he was a Dago.

The ONLY reason that the Middle Eastern wackos are so religious is because it's the only "FUN" thing to do in their shit-hole lives. They live in Satan's asshole.

Screw Terraforming the moon or Mars. Terraform the Middle East and give them MTV and "Iranian Idol" and they'll be so busy screwing each other that they'll all forget who Allah was except for when they're screaming "Oh Allah!, Oh Allah! in throws of mindless passion.

Problem solved.....

Forget Mitt, forget Santorum

~6 4 President

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Friday, March 2, 2012 6:53 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Since we're a nation of pussies that won't lob a bomb back when they bomb our Twin Towers...

This is pretty much all I needed to read from Jack to remember just how big an idiot he can be. We didn't "lob a bomb" in the mid-east? Really? Well over a trillion dollars wasted, thousands of soldiers dead on all sides, hundreds of thousands of civilians dead, our economy ruined, and all for NOTHING, and you still don't think we lobbed a bomb their way?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:03 PM

Sorry man... That's just an idiot response on your part.

What did the real "Bombs" to Japan do during WWII?

As far as I can tell these days, they make the greatest video games ever.

F carpet bombing a few mountain ranges and watching our kids die.

1 day after the Twin Towers, we should have given 24 hour notice to vacate Mecca.

Anyone who died there would be like the idiots who died at ground zero in Independence Day, and nobody would feel sorry for them.

Bomb America, okay....

Mecca and 5 miles surrounding it turned into Superman's fortress of solitude.

WAR......

OVER......

And if 24 hour warning was given, there would be no casualties to apologize for.

Back in 2001.

But here we are.....

Still quagmired in a war that Obama couldn't get us out of.

BTW... How's that closing of Git-Mo going, nearly 4 years later?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Saturday, March 3, 2012 3:54 AM

Why do you have to mix such complete idiocy up with it every time you got a point, Jack ?

Seriously, yeah verily we could turn that place into farmland cheaper than wasteland, and if we buckled down with the moderates on it THEY would throw them shitheads out instead of hiding being the radical fucks from our sabre rattling.

But as for 9-11, you *do* realize all the ACTUAL evidence points to a pack of Saudis with a Kuwaiti financier, who is at this moment sitting in a federal supermax, yes ?

Not that I think you care if the Christofascists and the Radical Islamists kill each other, shit, neither do I - but I kinda mind when they do it on my dime, you know ?

IMHO we shoulda put them towers RIGHT BACK UP, all hands on board, as fast as we *could* do it, just to slap them in the face and show them how petty and feeble the attempt to cow or bait us was - but no, our politicians, all of em, walked right into it, and our so-called-protectors HELPED em right into the trap...
(And given WHO gave Ramzi Youssef that bomb in 1993 I am quite sure it was on purpose.)

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, March 3, 2012 5:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah Mike...that's pretty much where I stopped reading too, when you said it...not just him, but the whole thread, as I figured it'd go back and forth with him from there on.

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:45 PM

I'm not sure where my idocy comes in there Frem, but I agree with your response.

I did find it funny that 10 years ago before my initial post of the "Anybody" thread here was the exact day of the 10 year anniversary of the "incident".

It's sad...

While I feel that I've made myself 1000% better since that day, it seems like most everyone around me has almost intentionally made themselves shittier.

God I miss the 80's and childhood...

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Why do you have to mix such complete idiocy up with it every time you got a point, Jack ?

Seriously, yeah verily we could turn that place into farmland cheaper than wasteland, and if we buckled down with the moderates on it THEY would throw them shitheads out instead of hiding being the radical fucks from our sabre rattling.

But as for 9-11, you *do* realize all the ACTUAL evidence points to a pack of Saudis with a Kuwaiti financier, who is at this moment sitting in a federal supermax, yes ?

Not that I think you care if the Christofascists and the Radical Islamists kill each other, shit, neither do I - but I kinda mind when they do it on my dime, you know ?

IMHO we shoulda put them towers RIGHT BACK UP, all hands on board, as fast as we *could* do it, just to slap them in the face and show them how petty and feeble the attempt to cow or bait us was - but no, our politicians, all of em, walked right into it, and our so-called-protectors HELPED em right into the trap...
(And given WHO gave Ramzi Youssef that bomb in 1993 I am quite sure it was on purpose.)

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 9:52 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Wow Jack, did you really just say that? It looks like you did. I can't abide by that extremism. I don't blame you for being pissed off though about how badly things have gone since 9/11, but we can't just blow up Mecca, the world just doesn't work like that, nor should it.

I'm not voting for you for president, we just don't have enough in common, then again I don't have much in common with any of the goonches running currently either.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 5, 2012 12:29 PM

Yeah, I agree with you Riona.

That is a very extreme measure from a guy who usually ends up in a wash between sides if you add up my positions on all the issues and 99% of the time opt for whichever "side" goes for personal liberty over legislated morality on the issue. For example, I'm pro gun rights, but I'm also pro choice (so long as 100% of the tax payers aren't forced to pay for birth control or abortions with their tax dollars when so many Americans hold a strong moral/spiritual objection to it).

Maybe it wouldn't have been the right thing to do (bombing Mecca), but I think that first week after the fact there wouldn't have been a whole ton of resistance against the idea, inside or outside of the US, if there were proper notice given and people didn't actually die because of the bombing. It's a MUCH more humane answer than our attacks on Nagasaki and Hiroshima (and we could very likely have lost WWII had we not done that). Bombing Mecca would absolutely be the wrong thing to do today, in 2012. That was a very short window of possibility.

Tough situations make for tough decisions. As it is now, there is a constant nagging in the back of every one of our heads that today could be the day where something HUGE like 9/11 happens again. At least with Russia, and the decades long cold war, we felt better about the whole thing because nobody on either side wanted to die for God. Though we disagreed strongly in politics, there was no Russian or US citizen that was going to sacrifice their own lives in the name of Democracy or Communism. Though the constant threat was there, I truly believe that nobody on each side was "animal" enough to drop a bomb on the other side and sacrifice thousands or tens of thousands of innocent civilians for either cause as well.

With the Middle East though, we're dealing with sub-human creatures here who have no remorse. Add to that the fact that so many of them live here and there is absolutely no way to tell the insane ones apart from those are human and only came to America because truly want a better life. Not only do the feral Middle Easterners not care about their own lives compared to the glory of serving their own God, but they are thrilled at the idea of taking out as many possible "heathens" with them when they go.

Fast forward 11 years after we didn't handle our retaliation appropriately like we did Pearl Harbor, and what has come of it? Nothing we have done in 10 years has stopped that from being a possibility, and short of making some farm land on all that Mid East sand and ensuring a more fruitful life that can then be exploited by America-knock-off Media that can keep them from being such extremists, there is nothing that can be done about it. Had Mecca been destroyed within one week of 9/11, there wouldn't be a radical Muslim in the world who would dare try something like that against America, or any other country again.

I like the state of Christianity today. There were days where many Christians were just as anamilistic in their beliefs as the Muslims are today. Most Christians today live in countries that give people a chance. Most people who are Christian today or live around a lot of Christians live lives that can be at least successful enough that there is no way they'd give their life up for God. This isn't the case with MANY Muslims yet.

I'm sure that there are probably a lot of Muslims living here in America who had come here as a sleeper agent but by now would never pull the trigger when the time came because they got a taste of how good life on Earth can be. There are probably a lot of them who have met good people of different races who live here and have forged friendships over the years and over time they shed their own anamalistic instincts.

That's the trick.....

How do we bring the American way of life to the Middle East?

In a world where everyone in the Middle East was completely free to follow Muslim practices, but they also had enough free time after working their 9-5 job to watch Iranian Idol, that nagging fear that a bearded, turbaned animal might blow up the train that you were sitting on would be an anachronism.

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Wow Jack, did you really just say that? It looks like you did. I can't abide by that extremism. I don't blame you for being pissed off though about how badly things have gone since 9/11, but we can't just blow up Mecca, the world just doesn't work like that, nor should it.

I'm not voting for you for president, we just don't have enough in common, then again I don't have much in common with any of the goonches running currently either.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Monday, March 5, 2012 5:58 PM

Bah, most of the Muslims what came over here hate them radical fucks worse than we do - thing is even the worst of them nutjobs who DO come over here with intent often get corrupted by our culture and throw in the towel, and them who don't can't get a leg up, can't carry through their idiotic plans cause no one here will help em, you see.

Except for one little problem - our so-called protectors reaching out to them, financing them, giving them the material support to carry out their crackbrained concept, in hopes of making a bust, when without that material support all they'd ever BE is some loudmouth with a pipedream.
And that *HAS* killed americans, never forget that Ramzi Youssef got that bomb FROM the FBI back in 1993, who either by incompetence or design let him set it off.

Think for a moment, these jackasses have language and culture barriers, lack of understanding, that means they HAVE to seek out other Muslims or foreign-born in order to back their play, and often as not those people, over here cause they HATE bastards like that, wind up making the sumbitches disappear since because of racial and religious intolerance amongst our law enforcement and other so-called protectors, reporting those scum would get THEM accused of shit, you know ?

Heaven knows there's prolly more than a couple of radical shitheads at the bottom of the great lakes cause of that (Dearborn, MI has the countries largest concentration of arabic-muslim immigrants, who are as a rule decent folk, with a few minor exceptions) and I got no issue with them policing their own - I just wish our so-called protectors would work WITH them on this instead of allowing their own prejudices to run wild resulting in things being screwed up as they are.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:38 PM

I agree.

Most of the people that are from the Middle East aren't radical wackos. All it takes is the idea that 1 in 10,000 are though to make a lot of folk uncomfortable even being around them.

Pre-9/11 and even a year before Ramzi, I went to Jr High with quite a few "arabs". (They were probably mixed middle eastern descent, but you know how easy it is for kids to just place labels). A few I knew from grade school were really cool, but the ones that came from other schools were just downright scary. First, they always seemed to have a beef with anyone who wasn't one of them, granted this may have just been a self defense mechanism on their part. But what was really scary was that nobody wanted to cross any one of them. If you got into a fight with one of them, you got into a fight with all of them.

In the mean time, there weren't any white guys around that were going to bail your ass out if you got yourself into that situation. After getting out of that situation, I did look back and respect their ability to stick together. I never knew any white kids that would band together like that while I grew up. Hell, I've only had two people in my own life ever back me up in a bad situation before... my brother and my best friend. Most people just head for the hills when trouble comes.

I still say that making the Middle East a desirable place to live is the best way to go. All the self-policing in the world state-side, even if they did get help from our "protectors" doesn't amount to crap when there are plenty more to replace anyone who turns up missing.

These radical wackos are brainwashed to the point of brain damage. From what I understand, it's not too hard to brainwash somebody who lives in shit in the first place. If you at least have a core to your life that you feel even mild fondness for, it would be much harder for somebody to convince your psyche that an "honorable" suicide in the name of "God" that takes out as many non-believers as possible is a better option than living your life with your friends and family and TV and tacos.

Terraforming, terraforming, terraforming.....

Let's pave the way to a Golden Arch and a Starbucks on every corner in the Middle East and then we can get back to focusing on the bigger threat.... China.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 3:45 PM

Quote:

That's the trick.....

How do we bring the American way of life to the Middle East?

Your mistake is in assuming the MIddle East *wants* "the American way of life", or that it's even a desirable thing.

Osama bin Laden's main problem with the West started with what he saw as the Americanization of the globe.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 4:49 PM

BYTEMITE

Well... Most of the youngest generation actually wants all the new media and the technology, but the trick they're having to face is balancing that with their also deeply held cultural values.

But the older generations, yeah, kind of think everything is potentially a corrupting influence.

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 8:59 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I don't want to have to pay for terraforming the middle east. That's expensive. Of course right now we're spending oodles of money fighting wars over there, which isn't desirable either. But still.

Jack, your China comment made me laugh, but you have a point.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 12:17 PM

Now, mostly, I don't discuss this in detail cause most folk are too blinded by their own prejudices and upbringing to do so rationally, but since you seem to at least make the attempt to look past that...

Those were probably Pashtuns, Jack - and they're kinda like that.

I know quite a bit about em cause this ole geezer I used to run to his medical appointments up in Dearborn realized that yes, I actually WAS interested and would expound at length - many of my own religious and personal tenets cross over with Pashto and Ba'hai cause Vajrayana also came from the middle east and India, although there's a lot of divergence, sure.
Even funnier is that his real name was Idi Amin - I'm sure immigration had fun with that.

Some of the other cabbies were arabic too, Syrian I think, Mahmoud and Bob, who we called Bob cause not even arabic people could hope to pronounce his rightful name, in his own words "We've no idea what mother was thinking..", and they were some pretty cool dudes, although they wouldn't teach me anything nasty to say in arabic to add to my weapons-grade vocabulary - and were a mite put out that americans were so unoriginal with the insults slung at them, cause yanno, cabbies are pretty thick skinned when it comes to personal insult.
Might also amuse you, that the Syrians happen to brew some damn good beer, goes by the name of Al-Chark, the other brand, known as Barada, ain't worth the trouble to import.

There's also the mini-mart owners wife down the road a ways, her and I exchange (and try to steal) recipes with each other, and holy moly that shrimpy chick is a freakin valkyrie and quite vicious with a wooden spoon - Kipling was right, never let em give you to the women!

And this Imam who I talk to sometimes - fool made the mistake of thinking he was enlightened while I was tellin him how far he had to go, of course he didn't take that well so I thought a lesson was in order...
(He was gettin the whole treat other people as human thing, he just couldn't seem to wrap his brain around females being people.)
I borrowed a burkha from another friend and waltzed right up to him, unseen and beneath his notice, and slammed a rubber knife into his kidneys, and you can bet THAT got his attention - I asked him how he'd like me to go round teaching their women the finer points of a blade if they didn't start getting the respect due them as human beings and he told me he'd prolly never sleep soundly again, to which I replied "GOOD!"... he's been a lil miffed at me ever since.

What irritates me though is how the feds creep around spyin on em and tryin to pick trouble with em INSTEAD of working WITH them, since they hate them radical fucks even MORE than we do, but no, the FBI around here is every bit as corrupt as the freakin police, and outright assassinating a local fence (who was admittedly a creep, but no terrorist) left a bad taste lingering to this day, especially when they airlifted the police dog they sicced on him after he was down and left him to bleed to death on the floor, with several bullets in his BACK, after he was down...
(Not to mention shooting him an excessive amount of times in the groin to begin with.)

As for the golden arches, we're doin okay on that front, the McDonalds in Dearborn offers chicken nuggets that meet the muslim standard for halal, which is mechanically not that different from kosher, really.
http://islam.about.com/od/dietarylaw/a/halalmcd.htm
Power of the market at work, that - you want em, you can get em, simple as that.
(And note, there's three McDonalds *IN* Mecca)

The sharing of food is a powerful bond, one that sidesteps a lot of political, cultural and other considerations cause it reaches through to a more primitive form of empathy, me and Rev *proved* this by making friends with some of the locals in Kosovo via chocolate chip cookies (I baked and shipped em) and his admittedly pathetic attempts to learn their language - directly resulting in them turning in or pointing out dangerous mined areas or weapons caches to HIM, cause they trusted "the guy with the cookies" more than our idiot PR people and their pyschological inability to see past their own upbringing.

Oh, and a note on that clannish thing the Pashtun got going on - you know that whole monkeysphere concept, right ?
While I dislike their instinctive hostility to outsiders, I think we could learn a bit by taking that concept and applying it to our own society, instead of Us-N-Them, overlapping rings of influence, say...
Family->Clan->Tribe->County->State->Country
For example - a lot of the "nordic" countries, Sweden, Iceland, the Netherlands, have a lot of that going on and because of it are saner, stabler in a social sense, than we are.

Anyhows, end of the day, they're people - different people sure, but people, good and bad and in between.
And as to WHY those radical fuckheads get a foothold on em to begin with - that's easy, the death of hope.
You take away all hope of a better future, all chance of improving their lot in any substantial, material way, they'll grab at ANY straw which seems to offer it - now once upon a time we might have been able to offer a straw or two of our own as an alternative choice (like we did with the mujahadeen) but we've told too many lies, committed too many betrayals (and yes I know, that ain't been all one-sided) and these are people who hold seriously epic grudges.
Thing is, these kids they're brainwashing are often uneducated and illiterate, dependant on them punkass geezers (who don't risk their OWN necks, of course not) for guidance of the word of allah, right ?
What you think happens when someone educates them and they read the Quran for themselves and come to the parts where there's some really strong words about not mistreating women or noncombatants ?
About proper conduct, hospitality and how a person should treat their fellow man ?
WHICH - is why I support RAWA, cause they sneak that education to em on the sly.

I once favored a stronger stance, but having seen the NFA and how bad that's going yeah lets not go down that road - although I do get irritated with the folks from RAWA, when I can talk to em cause both the americans and the talitubbies are merciless hunters of their english translators, cause the RAWA girls seem to have this idea if they get the word out far enough, wide enough, to the right people, they'll come help make it all better *eyeroll* - and no they don't wanna hear that it's gone as far as it can get and THE WORLD DOESN'T CARE, nope, so every time I try to tell em that it's like trying to reason with a wall, they just manage to NOT HEAR what I am saying, grrr.
Although the one who did that pencil sketch for me before one of our bombs killed her, she did listen.
And yanno what she said to me ?
"Then you must MAKE them care."
And yeah, I try...

Of course, it ain't all hearts and roses neither - my hillbilly relatives, a lot of em still brew and run moonshine, right ?
Well they heard about the plight of booze smugglers on the afghan border, who were wholly dependant on external supplies of alcohol, and the point was made to them that these border yahoos were the middle eastern equivalent of... hillbillies.
Wow daddy they swung into action on that, forming a halfway pidgin slang and teaching them how to build and run a still without poisonin themselves, meh heh heh.
But yeah, progress comes slow out there in the desert.

I do say terraformin is cheaper than bombin, and if we give em OPTIONS other than revenge, instead of leaving them nothin else left, we solve a lotta the problem right there.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 1:34 PM

OONJERAH

North Korea? ... NM.

Quote Riona: "I don't want to have to pay for terraforming the middle east."

Reclamation of desertified lands.
Couple weeks back when y'all were going round & round about Iran/Israel, I tried to make that
point a few times as clearly as I could.

The Arab lands need water, need top soil. The Israelis did it, why can't they?
My guess is: TPTB over there are richer than Croesus with oil money. Yet their economies are undeveloped,
except for oil. The land could be reclaimed if those fat sheiks would just say the word, & buy a little
equipment. Watching that sort of mismanagement is extremely frustrating.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 4:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Your mistake is in assuming the MIddle East *wants* "the American way of life", or that it's even a desirable thing.

There's no "mistake" being made here. I'm sure that, the kids especially, would love to be worshiping Justin Beiber and Selena Gomez in the Middle East, if they weren't so busy getting their heads filled with 100% devotion to Allah everyday because they live in a world where to the average citizen life is so shitty that in 2012 they still manage to cover their women from head to toe in black garbage bags.

I'm not proposing a Middle East without God, or without their own history, anymore than I'm suggesting that an America that is fruitful enough for people to decide to be 100% devout or 100% atheist hasn't "fixed" Christianity today.

The mediazation of the Middle East isn't something we'd even need to initiate if they had fertile land and weren't covered in sand. If things started going well for them and they had even a half hour of free time a day to jack off, they'd be watching things coming from more advanced cultures and the people there would be clamoring for more.

Quote:
Osama bin Laden's main problem with the West started with what he saw as the Americanization of the globe.

Bad example man. Would you just as readily quote Hitler and his beliefs? Of course he was against Americanization, especially considering everyone in his country lived like mole people in the hills with sand in their ass cracks and the women were more than happy to wear full-body trash bags if only to take refuge from the sand storms.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well... Most of the youngest generation actually wants all the new media and the technology, but the trick they're having to face is balancing that with their also deeply held cultural values.

But the older generations, yeah, kind of think everything is potentially a corrupting influence.

Yep Byte,

Same old story for generations in the US. My late great-grandmother, if she hadn't died 20 years ago, would have had a heart attack if she saw how girls dress up in the warm weather today.

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I don't want to have to pay for terraforming the middle east. That's expensive. Of course right now we're spending oodles of money fighting wars over there, which isn't desirable either. But still.

Jack, your China comment made me laugh, but you have a point.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

I don't want to have to pay for terraforming the Middle East either. But, you're right, how much do we waste every year there policing an area that could have been better spent. Just because Osama Bin Laden is gone, it doesn't mean that there aren't 40 others waiting in line to take over for him.

As I said before, these "people" are animals. Take out the Alpha Male, and there's a young pup just waiting to take the throne.

Cut them off at the knees.

Cut warfare spending in the Mid East by 1/4 TODAY, and at the same time spend only half of those savings on Terraforming the Middle East and in 10 years the dividends on that saved taxpayer money will grow exponentially. At that point, keep it up for another 10 years while bumping up the amount of money going to Terraforming and in 20 years not only will we be collecting interest from the Middle East on the work done, but we'll be able to throw the department of Homeland Security out the window.

Not sure why the China comment made you laugh Riona, but I'm glad I could bring a smile to your face.

The potential China threat in the next 20-50 years is very real and very serious. This Middle East bullshit is just a red herring. I'd love to be the ones that helped put them on their feet and got them on the same page as us by then. They'd make a great ally if things ever REALLY got bad with our Chinese relations.

Frem,

Man... that was one hell of a post!

What can I say, except for that I agree with everything you said!

It's really great that you are integrated with them and that you've made true ties. Where I live now, there really aren't any to speak of, just whites and blacks around these parts. I still miss Ashraf. I grew up with that dude. Moved away to a different high school after middle school, but 3-4 years later we were both standing in line at a club and he recognized me and we really hit it off again and were buying each other rounds all night. Really an awesome dude, even though I don't know exactly what heritage he actually was in the end. I didn't ask those questions when I was 21-22.

If I had his number, I'd call him up tonight and see what he was up to.

Quote:
I borrowed a burkha from another friend and waltzed right up to him, unseen and beneath his notice, and slammed a rubber knife into his kidneys, and you can bet THAT got his attention - I asked him how he'd like me to go round teaching their women the finer points of a blade if they didn't start getting the respect due them as human beings and he told me he'd prolly never sleep soundly again, to which I replied "GOOD!"... he's been a lil miffed at me ever since.

Haha... that really made me laugh. We live in America man... love it or leave it!

Quote:
I do say terraformin is cheaper than bombin, and if we give em OPTIONS other than revenge, instead of leaving them nothin else left, we solve a lotta the problem right there.

THIS is the KEY!

We're already spending TONS of money that most of us agree is BS. Let's seriously curb that spending and (making sure that no corrupt behind the door dealings with taxpayer dollars) spend just a fraction of that doing good instead.

It's a great investment in my mind. An investment in our children's and their children's future.

I would have posted and replied to every awesome comment you made Frem, but I'm too OCD lol. I did read them all and quite enjoyed that post.

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Reclamation of desertified lands.
Couple weeks back when y'all were going round & round about Iran/Israel, I tried to make that
point a few times as clearly as I could.

The Arab lands need water, need top soil. The Israelis did it, why can't they?
My guess is: TPTB over there are richer than Croesus with oil money. Yet their economies are undeveloped,
except for oil. The land could be reclaimed if those fat sheiks would just say the word, & buy a little
equipment. Watching that sort of mismanagement is extremely frustrating.

The Mid-East management of their money from oil is like watching Haliburton on some new hybrid of crack and meth. But that's only from the viewpoint of rational, civilized human beings.

Just because you were born into a position of riches and power, doesn't mean that you are inherently knowledgeable enough to wield that power responsibly.

These sheiks you speak of that hold all the wealth/power in the Mid/East, and use that power to make sure that everyone else lives in shit and sand.

Your idea here is perfect.

They have PLENTY of money to Terraform their own country, but they're too busy spending it on their golden toilets and blowjobs.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 4:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Your mistake is in assuming the MIddle East *wants* "the American way of life", or that it's even a desirable thing.

There's no "mistake" being made here. I'm sure that, the kids especially, would love to be worshiping Justin Beiber and Selena Gomez in the Middle East, if they weren't so busy getting their heads filled with 100% devotion to Allah everyday because they live in a world where to the average citizen life is so shitty that in 2012 they still manage to cover their women from head to toe in black garbage bags.

I'm not proposing a Middle East without God, or without their own history, anymore than I'm suggesting that an America that is fruitful enough for people to decide to be 100% devout or 100% atheist hasn't "fixed" Christianity today.

The mediazation of the Middle East isn't something we'd even need to initiate if they had fertile land and weren't covered in sand. If things started going well for them and they had even a half hour of free time a day to jack off, they'd be watching things coming from more advanced cultures and the people there would be clamoring for more.

Quote:
Osama bin Laden's main problem with the West started with what he saw as the Americanization of the globe.

Bad example man. Would you just as readily quote Hitler and his beliefs? Of course he was against Americanization, especially considering everyone in his country lived like mole people in the hills with sand in their ass cracks and the women were more than happy to wear full-body trash bags if only to take refuge from the sand storms.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well... Most of the youngest generation actually wants all the new media and the technology, but the trick they're having to face is balancing that with their also deeply held cultural values.

But the older generations, yeah, kind of think everything is potentially a corrupting influence.

Yep Byte,

Same old story for generations in the US. My late great-grandmother, if she hadn't died 20 years ago, would have had a heart attack if she saw how girls dress up in the warm weather today.

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I don't want to have to pay for terraforming the middle east. That's expensive. Of course right now we're spending oodles of money fighting wars over there, which isn't desirable either. But still.

Jack, your China comment made me laugh, but you have a point.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

I don't want to have to pay for terraforming the Middle East either. But, you're right, how much do we waste every year there policing an area that could have been better spent. Just because Osama Bin Laden is gone, it doesn't mean that there aren't 40 others waiting in line to take over for him.

As I said before, these "people" are animals. Take out the Alpha Male, and there's a young pup just waiting to take the throne.

Cut them off at the knees.

Cut warfare spending in the Mid East by 1/4 TODAY, and at the same time spend only half of those savings on Terraforming the Middle East and in 10 years the dividends on that saved taxpayer money will grow exponentially. At that point, keep it up for another 10 years while bumping up the amount of money going to Terraforming and in 20 years not only will we be collecting interest from the Middle East on the work done, but we'll be able to throw the department of Homeland Security out the window.

Not sure why the China comment made you laugh Riona, but I'm glad I could bring a smile to your face.

The potential China threat in the next 20-50 years is very real and very serious. This Middle East bullshit is just a red herring. I'd love to be the ones that helped put them on their feet and got them on the same page as us by then. They'd make a great ally if things ever REALLY got bad with our Chinese relations.

Frem,

Man... that was one hell of a post!

What can I say, except for that I agree with everything you said!

It's really great that you are integrated with them and that you've made true ties. Where I live now, there really aren't any to speak of, just whites and blacks around these parts. I still miss Ashraf. I grew up with that dude. Moved away to a different high school after middle school, but 3-4 years later we were both standing in line at a club and he recognized me and we really hit it off again and were buying each other rounds all night. Really an awesome dude, even though I don't know exactly what heritage he actually was in the end. I didn't ask those questions when I was 21-22.

If I had his number, I'd call him up tonight and see what he was up to.

Quote:
I borrowed a burkha from another friend and waltzed right up to him, unseen and beneath his notice, and slammed a rubber knife into his kidneys, and you can bet THAT got his attention - I asked him how he'd like me to go round teaching their women the finer points of a blade if they didn't start getting the respect due them as human beings and he told me he'd prolly never sleep soundly again, to which I replied "GOOD!"... he's been a lil miffed at me ever since.

Haha... that really made me laugh. We live in America man... love it or leave it!

Quote:
I do say terraformin is cheaper than bombin, and if we give em OPTIONS other than revenge, instead of leaving them nothin else left, we solve a lotta the problem right there.

THIS is the KEY!

We're already spending TONS of money that most of us agree is BS. Let's seriously curb that spending and (making sure that no corrupt behind the door dealings with taxpayer dollars) spend just a fraction of that doing good instead.

It's a great investment in my mind. An investment in our children's and their children's future.

I would have posted and replied to every awesome comment you made Frem, but I'm too OCD lol. I did read them all and quite enjoyed that post.

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Reclamation of desertified lands.
Couple weeks back when y'all were going round & round about Iran/Israel, I tried to make that
point a few times as clearly as I could.

The Arab lands need water, need top soil. The Israelis did it, why can't they?
My guess is: TPTB over there are richer than Croesus with oil money. Yet their economies are undeveloped,
except for oil. The land could be reclaimed if those fat sheiks would just say the word, & buy a little
equipment. Watching that sort of mismanagement is extremely frustrating.

The Mid-East management of their money from oil is like watching Haliburton on some new hybrid of crack and meth. But that's only from the viewpoint of rational, civilized human beings.

Just because you were born into a position of riches and power, doesn't mean that you are inherently knowledgeable enough to wield that power responsibly.

These sheiks you speak of that hold all the wealth/power in the Mid/East, and use that power to make sure that everyone else lives in shit and sand.

Your idea here is perfect.

They have PLENTY of money to Terraform their own country, but they're too busy spending it on their golden toilets and blowjobs.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

Look to Dubai for leadership in this area. Of course, that would require you to actually open your eyes, which I doubt you're capable of.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 4:42 PM

Quote:
Look to Dubai for leadership in this area. Of course, that would require you to actually open your eyes, which I doubt you're capable of.

Been waiting on that for a while......

For more than a little while....

When should I stop looking?

now.....?

Now.....?

NOW.....?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 5:05 PM

There are none so blind as those who will not see...

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 5:11 PM

What's your answer Kwicko?

I think a good plan of Terraforming has been laid out here.

I'm all about a reduction in military force and imperialism.

What do you think should be done?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 9:48 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Ew, Dubai is where all the dirty rutters who abuse their wives and won't let them do anything go to let loose and rut with whoever they want. I don't think anyone should be looking to them for guidence, unless they want to master the craft of hypocracy. Now the one thing that Dubai does do well is get people to spend lots of money.

Jack, could we please not call people animals. If you want to say that some of them _behave like animals I won't object, but saying they _are animals is not a way to win friends or influence people, plus its just mean.

I laughed about China because its true and so it resinated with me.

And Jack, do you really think Salena Gomez and Justin Bieber are really worth that much attention, they get plenty from American kids, they don't need more from kids in the middle east. I don't think fawning over celebutantes is really a high water mark of civilized society/something to emulate and encourage. I mean really.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 2:00 PM

Anybody who would strap a bomb on their chest or down a plane that they're on to take out other people is an animal. I won't sugar coat that. It's not as if I'm lumping in everyone and calling all Muslims animals.

I think they have me beat on meanness here.

I think that kids could do worse than falling into the childhood celeb thing. It's not anything to brag about, but at least kids watching that fluff crap aren't going to be bombing anybody or shooting up their own school. I guaranty you that the most recent shooting in the news was done by a kid that never watched them.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 3:05 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Anybody who would strap a bomb on their chest or down a plane that they're on to take out other people is an animal.

Hello,

I never thought of Kamikaze aviators as being animals before...

...I still don't.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 4:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I never thought of Kamikaze aviators as being animals before...

...I still don't.

--Anthony

Did these brave Japanese men die for their wives and children, and for other tangible things that we cherish, such as our comfortable way of life before war (just like the deaths of our own children in an unwinnable and unending war)?

Or, did were they brainwashed into non-thinking robot ANIMALS through 24/7 religious brainwashing that likely involved drugs, paid women and many other creature comforts that we take for granted in America, yet these teens grow up thinking could only possibly happen in heaven?

I have NO argument against dying for freedom.

I have NO argument against dying in the name of the ideals you hold the dearest, when the walls are surrounding you and your family and friends.

In fact, I think that day of truth might come for many of us if things keep going the way they're going state-side.

What I DO have a problem with is the RICH OIL CARTELS in the Middle East keeping everything to themselves and keeping the other 99% of the people in absolute sand-infested poverty shit. The have-nots have absolutely no distractions from how shitty their own lives are and no idea that others live in better circumstances. If they question this idea, they're told that a better way of life on earth is a sin and something only the heathens in Europe and America indulge in.

Imagine yourself, utterly penurious and completely unable to support yourself let alone your family, being sucked into some "scheme" to help your family have food in their mouth. At first, your intentions are honorable, but when you have nothing to offer anyone before being snagged, you just follow along and obey. One day, you're an ANIMAL wearing a bomb, ready to take out as many "heathens" with you as you possibly can for the GOD that showed you for the last year how good life could be (likely with drugs, and paid hookers who were likely brainwashed themselves), and the promise that the only good experience you've ever had in life on earth will be your eternity if you obey your Masters.

These ANIMALS were once people. They aren't people anymore. They have no scruples. They have no morals. They have nothing to live or die for except for a promise of a better afterlife for their GOD.

As much as I cringe when I see the Kamakazi bombers during WWII, I hold the same respect for them that you do. They were fighting for their respectable way of life. They were fighting to maintain that way of life for their wives and children and their children's children.

(Sure, they were probably brainwashed as well, but at least they had good intentions)

Any Middle Easterner willing to do the "same" thing today for the promise of heaven in a theoretical God's presence is just a mindless robot. Their God wouldn't tell them to do that. But they don't know that. They're just easily manipulated and expendable puppets used by the STATE to carry out the ugly orders.

They're sacrificing their lives to save SHIT!

And their MASTERS know it.

What a fool believes.....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 4:38 PM

And to add....

Most of my music favorites pre-date my own generation by a lot. Here's another example of another great song that would keep people from bombing and shooting shit if they had an internet connection and more than sand and shit to sell.

The only people I could see bombing while listening to Listen to the Music are Hannibal Lecter and the Unibomber.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 4:50 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
They aren't people anymore. They have no scruples. They have no morals.

Hello,

You certainly have strong opinions.

Fortunately, I hold 'brainwashed' people in higher esteem.

To think of people as 'animals' or 'not people' can seriously impact the way you treat them.

And not in a good way.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
They aren't people anymore. They have no scruples. They have no morals.

Hello,

You certainly have strong opinions.

Fortunately, I hold 'brainwashed' people in higher esteem.

To think of people as 'animals' or 'not people' can seriously impact the way you treat them.

And not in a good way.

I certainly have strong opinions.

The next time your family is on a plane or working in the subway or mall or school that one of these ANIMALS want to attack, I hope they remembered to put on their SPF 2000 sunblock that morning.

Anyways, how does that impact the way I treat them, personally? I don't know any of them, at least the confirmed terrorists. You don't either, until it happens.

My favorite Liquor store salesman is "Andyana Jones". (His name is Andy and he's Indian). Hate me if you want for that reference, but at the same time, I bet I'm one of the only white dudes under 50 who calls him by his first name every time I come into the store. It's just a helpful mnemonic device.

My question to you Anthony, is how should I treat these sub-human creatures?

Would you be arguing me about this if they were messed up American kids with no scruples riddled with Heroin and Meth addictions?

I'm sorry, but at least the Meth heads and the Heroin addicts state-side are predictable.....

You never can tell what a God-Head will do until after they've done it!

Please remember,Anthony, before you post further, that I'm a right leaning libertarian that holds the church in much higher regard than a lot of the folk who post here. I may not be confirmed Catholic yet, at 32, and I may not tow the Rethuglican line 24/7, but the Demonocrats scare me even more......

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 6:24 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Yes, I would still be arguing against your viewpoints if they were Meth addicts or whatnot.

I'll never understand the need to dehumanize a people in order to resist them.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Thursday, March 8, 2012 8:01 PM

Ever think that understanding them, instead of dehumanizing them, is the key to pulling them out of that hell, to turning them off that path, Jack ?

Now yeah I know, there's folks upon who diplomacy ain't gonna work, people who have chosen evil, and in that case I ain't exactly above manipulating them.

But either way, you wanna get into their heads and defuse that insanity, either as a humanitarian gesture or as a manner of proxy self-defense, you gotta understand em, and dehumanizing em gets in the way of that.

I prefer to blame and assign the CONDUCT, rather than the individual who is, as a rule none too bright, propagandized, lied to, and stuck with about the shortest end of a stick the gods ever gave a someone - which frankly can and does apply to a lot of our troops too, yanno.

But them who give the orders, they're another breed entire, and animals is too kind a word for em, besides being yanno, an insult to the animal kingdom.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 9, 2012 4:36 PM

I see where you're coming from Frem. I don't feel like I'm the one dehumanizing them though. The ones on top you mentioned already seem to have done a superb job of that already.

I'm sorry that I seem to be arguing with you and Anthony about this when we usually seem to be on the same page about a lot of issues.

I just think that, similar to a meth or heroin addict, these "people" are beyond help, and we should focus on making life better for those who haven't been tainted yet.

If the Middle Easterners want to set up PTSD trauma centers to try to rehabilitate and deprogram these people after they're standard of living is improved, I'm all for it.

You've got to pick your battles. Is it more important now to uproot the cause of the disease, or is it more important to put band-aids on the never ending supply of symptoms that will just pop up all around you?

To clarify my remarks, I don't believe that there are all that many people from the Middle East that are, what I refer to as animals, as compared to the population as a whole. Most of them are just sad-sacks looking for a leg up, and most of them even in their shit lives are strong enough to resist the temptations of the manipulators.

Worry about rehabilitation of the tainted ones 2nd. 1st priority should be to teach the innocents how to fish for themselves, and not rely either on the US or on their own corrupt leaders for anything.

Once they can do that, and they can afford cable TV and McDonalds, they'll have more free time and resources to help their lost friends and family members.

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Friday, March 9, 2012 4:51 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
I just think that, similar to a meth or heroin addict, these "people" are beyond help

Hello,

I wasn't aware that addicts were beyond help?

It should never be necessary to dehumanize your enemy in order to fight him.

That is what the enemy does.

That is not what we should do.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 9, 2012 4:59 PM

Hey Anthony,

How expensive do you want this to be for us (The US and any other country who would view this solution as a good investment in the future of peace)?

I'm suggesting what I think is a VERY good solution to curing the disease of a destitute Middle Eastern populace ripe for the picking to be slaves of their God.

As I stated in the last post, the "tainted" ones are not a priority at this stage. Even if you spent the massive amounts up front to rehabilitate them, until the root cause of the taint is eliminated, there is an endless supply of "fresh meat" to program.

These people, by choice, have already dehumanized themselves. I'm quite sure at this stage they don't give two shits about what my opinion of them are, so it's all a moot point anyhow.

Fix the real problem, then comb backwards and try to rehabilitate anyone who can be saved.

Sure, most junkies will go right back to the drugs within a month of rehabilitation, but I'm sure they have people there who care enough about them to try hard to make it happen when their lives otherwise are more stabilized. It's hard to have family support for any addiction if the family who wants to support you is living their own life on an Olympic standard balance beam.

EDITED TO ADD:

I felt that I should emphasize that I'm only referring to the pawns of this game on the other side in dehumanizing terms.

I'm NOT suggesting that these pawns/animals are even the enemy. As Frem noted in his post, it's the puppet masters that are the true enemy.

I do feel sorry for them, those who have actually commuted horrible acts at the sacrifice of their own life, and those who are today being programmed to do so in the future.

There is nothing that can be done for any of them though until the root issue is eliminated.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Friday, March 9, 2012 8:52 PM

I take your point, but I still feel "Damn deluded fools" is a more accurate assessment than animals.

-F

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Friday, March 9, 2012 9:01 PM