Silence, 50 foot radius by AnthonyT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

In most cases, there is no right to avoid loud, obnoxious people. Dealing with them is a side effect of living close to other human beings.

In some situations, businesses may be able to impose limits on cell phone uses, but that is their discretion, not ours. Even so, people may still be loud and obnoxious even without cell phones.

And of course, if you ever see someone violating the law, you may report them to the police at your discretion. It is not in my nature to do this for such an infraction, but your feelings may differ.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Friday, March 2, 2012 8:51 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
We've all experienced people on cell phones; they talk loudly, like they can't be heard or something.

Studies have shown this is due to holding their cell phone incorrectly. Because they can't hear who they're talking to very well, they subconsciously increase the volume of their own voice to compensate.

I don't really use cell phones. But I guess it's an individual call.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 9:01 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Yup, I'm sure we've all wished for such a device at one time or another, but imagine if even 1 in 10 people had such a thing, and how much WORSE it would make things. Everywhere you went, people would be REALLY yelling into their phones, trying to overcome jamming and bad reception by amping up their own volume...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, March 2, 2012 9:08 AM

BYTEMITE

The real problem I see is that the guy is only aware of what is happening on the bus, but a fifty foot radius is much larger than the area of the bus. He could be silencing various emergencies on the street as he passes by, and not even realize it.

I generally am opposed to anyone who tries to cut off or suppress information and communication. People who burn books, people who jam cell phones, an insane government that wants to hamstring the internet, same thing.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 9:51 AM

CAVETROLL

I had to think about this one. While I too am annoyed by cell phone user's lack of civility, after a brief think I'll have to put this one in the "bad idea" column. I remember an article about a school in Israel that was going to put cell phone jammers to use to prevent students from using phones during the school day. I'd be for that on the face of it. But again, one school attack and the good goes right out the window.

Not to mention the illegal aspect.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 11:27 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

There's a similar device that'll turn off any remote controlled TV in your area.

http://makeprojects.com/Project/TV-B-Gone-Hat/60/1

Quote:
“Hey, you mind turning that thing off?” Simple enough question, but I got tired of people looking at me like I’m from Mars. When a TV is on in the room, I can’t think. I just stare at the thing and drool.

So I invented TV-B-Gone, a key chain that stealthily turns off just about any television. When the TVs turn off, people turn on, engage in conversation, read, eat, and perform all sorts of human activities. Peace happens.

I recently teamed up with prolific kit maker Limor Fried to create a $20 kit version of the original TV-B-Gone key chain. This version works up to 40 yards away, and it’s totally hackable; the entire project is open source and documented at http://ladyada.net/make/tvbgone. Here’s how I built one into a baseball cap that lets me look at almost any TV, touch the top, and watch with glee as it shuts off.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, March 2, 2012 11:40 AM

OONJERAH

Making noise in public, either too much or too loud, it's called Disturbing the Peace.
There are laws about it. Apparently an old fashioned idea.

Race tracks and carnivals are placed at a distance from residential areas. Commuter trains, not so much.

Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 5:12 PM

Hello AnthonyT,

This is a very interesting post.

Before I comment one way or the other, I'd like to ask you a simple question that you (and anyone else who has a firm opinion on the matter) may infer other obvious questions that stem from it....

Are you, or are you not a smoker?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Friday, March 2, 2012 5:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I kinda dig the idea of jamming signals, actually.

I mean, if folks are forced to sit near each other, and are situated in close quarters, sure. But if someone is in a park, or some open, public area, away from others, and they're not bothering anyone... then no.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, March 2, 2012 5:32 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I am not a smoker. I was never able to try it for health reasons. Then again, I had an Uncle (great Uncle? My grandfather's brother.) who had severe breathing problems and smoked cigars until he died in his 80's. A fair lifespan for such a sick fellow.

My Aunt smoked. (Regular Aunt, not a Great one. Well, she was pretty good. ;-)

So did my father, though I never saw it. He quit before I was born.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 5:43 PM

I applaud you sir, for stating your case for not ever smoking while at the same time not showing any judgment of character and also completely (and I suspect, very knowingly) skirting the parallel I presented.

Good show.

Have you no more to say on the matter, I will wait until somebody else has an opinion before I speak my peace on this issue.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Friday, March 2, 2012 6:28 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I suspect you wanted to ask whether I support laws curbing smoking. Or rather, you wanted me to volunteer that information by inferring the question.

In fact, it's a question I've mused on before, when the world was in the process of enacting legislation forcing smokers into ever decreasing spheres of acceptance.

My father was of the opinion that the laws overreached. My mother was of the opinion that the laws were a necessity. (She would go into fits if anyone was smoking in the vicinity. Not health fits, exactly- but more fits of repugnancy.) I think time has altered my father's original position, and he is now grateful to find so many smoke-free spaces.

Presented with information at the time that second-hand smoke was harmful, I eventually concluded as a young lad that smoking indoors was a threat to other people sharing the space- a kind of slow-acting deadly assault.

I don't feel that being loud or obnoxious is the same kind of threat, if you are attempting to draw parallels.

If there was no information suggesting that cigarette smoke was physically harmful to people in the vicinity, I'd be content to suffer through the bad smell.

In a similar vein, anyone flying on planes has had to become accustomed to suffering through the wailing of children. There's simply nothing to do but endure the irritation until you reach your destination.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 6:43 PM

Jack, are you perhaps suggesting a "smoke jammer", by any chance? Something like a large plastic helmet that could be put over a smoker's head, forming an airtight seal around their neck, so they could smoke away and not endanger others?

I ask as a longtime smoker, now in recovery.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 6:47 PM

I know you know what I was saying. Thanks for stating it

I wasn't just calling you out though. It was anyone who felt the strongly either way about the jammer in your thread.

Your father, at least before, was a Constitutinally minded man. Your mother, well... she was suffering from diseases that don't even exist. My brother HATES mushrooms so badly that he will suffer an "allergic" reaction if he knew that he ate them after the fact. If nobody told him they were in there, he was fine. I know this for a fact because I intentionally put mushrooms in things I made for family dinners and he had no reaction at all.

I don't even disagree that second hand smoke is MODERATELY harmful. But, scientifically speaking, how could you say it was more harmful than second hand cell-phone signals? They've already had numerous studies that said that cell phone use is linked to brain cancer. If I'm on the bus, in public, not using my cell phone... why should I be bombarded with 2nd hand cell phone rays?

My question isn't at all about loud people.

If I want somebody to shut the F up in public, I'll just stare at them insistently until they do. My youngest, completely unhinged brother skips all the mind games and, me as a witness, he pulled out a knife at a movie theatre and told 4 black girls sitting behind us to shut the F up or he'd kill them when they wouldn't stop talking through Resident Evil.

It's not that I don't give a shit about your health concerns about smoking.... I do. That's why I limit my smoking around people when I can. That's why I'd never smoke around an elderly who is sick. That's why I don't even smoke in my own house except for a closed room in the attic.

All I'm saying is there needs to be a halfway point. Currently, I live in one of the last "free" states that still allows smoking in bars and restaurants. There are several bars and restaurants that don't allow smoking, per choice, the way it should be.

When I finish my house work, if the "Right" to smoke in a bar still exists, my next move is to open a non-smoking bar here.

I think it would make great publicity, a shot of an attractive younger man in his young 30's smoking a cigarette outside the back of his own non-smoking bar.

It's just like your thoughts on religion in the other post man....

Government has no right to decide where you can smoke, as long as THE PEOPLE are okay with it there.

Don't go into a Catholic church and demand they marry gays.

Don't go into a bar and demand they ban smoking.

There are plenty of places that gay people and non-smokers can go these days.

Let the market decide.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Boo

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:04 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
I don't even disagree that second hand smoke is MODERATELY harmful. But, scientifically speaking, how could you say it was more harmful than second hand cell-phone signals? They've already had numerous studies that said that cell phone use is linked to brain cancer. If I'm on the bus, in public, not using my cell phone... why should I be bombarded with 2nd hand cell phone rays?

My question isn't at all about loud people.

Hello,

Here you posit the question of cell phone signals as a health concern. Here you suggest it is not loudness or obnoxiousness that is at issue, but the deleterious effects of cell phone signals.

Here I suggest you have a deep misunderstanding of how an active jamming device works.

Quote:
If I want somebody to shut the F up in public, I'll just stare at them insistently until they do.

This represents an appropriate level of social pressure.

Quote:
My youngest, completely unhinged brother skips all the mind games and, me as a witness, he pulled out a knife at a movie theatre and told 4 black girls sitting behind us to shut the F up or he'd kill them when they wouldn't stop talking through Resident Evil.

This represents a crime. I hope you have taken the appropriate steps to get this disturbed person the help he needs.

Quote:
All I'm saying is there needs to be a halfway point.

I'd be interested in hearing your proposal.

Quote:
Don't go into a Catholic church and demand they marry gays.

I never have, nor would I, make such a demand. However, I freely speak against the policies of that religion whenever the topic surfaces in conversation in the hopes of decreasing their membership and influence.

Quote:
Don't go into a bar and demand they ban smoking.

I generally avoid them for this reason. Though I suspect it would hardly be a regular hang-out for me anyway.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:05 PM

STORYMARK

Can we put these ion movie theatres? That'd be nice.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:29 PM

Hey Anthony,

I think you might have taken my post as hostile, but it wasn't towards you. I figure you're a pretty like minded-guy on many things. I was just pointing out the similarities between what this guy you talked down about was doing to one crowd and how the government has done the same to a different crowd.

I question the cell phone signal as a "theoretical" health concern because I have a grandma and a great aunt who have both reached nearly 90 years old who smoke. Their smoke intake is 100 to 1000 times more than any non-smoker's is, since they're getting it first hand.

Also, most people who are happy that this is now largely a smoke free country don't care at all about the health benefits. They're just happy they don't have to smell it.

This guy was being his own Government. And I should add that I agree 100% with you about your stand on the issue. If bus-lines want to put a cell phone dampener because it's what the people want, than so be it. But NOT because one individual or because the suits at the Government make it so to make more tax dollars. As a business or owner of a business, it is your perogative to let people talk on cell phones or smoke cigarettes.

And, yes, my stare is deadly, at least in the real world. I don't know how I would fare in prison, but hopefully I'll never get to test that scenario.

My brother, many years after that incident, is finally getting help. He's got a lot of problems. As awesome as I thought it was that we were able to actually hear the rest of the movie over their bullshit and cell phone conversations at the time, I should have considered his knife in their face a warning sign. (They didn't say a single word the rest of the movie)

As for the halfway point, with both cell phones and cameras, is to let the business decide.

Eventually, a "sweet spot" will be decided. There will be those places where you can smoke or talk on cell phones or jump onto wireless internet on the fly, and there will be those places where you can't. Not decided by government, but decided by the individuals who created the establishment.

And it's totally your right to speak out against religion if that's what you want to do. I'm wholeheartedly on your side about that when you take such a mature and constitutional viewpoint about the issue.

I may not now, or ever agree with your views on religion, but I think we're very similar on our constitutional beliefs.

All I was trying to do was draw a parallel to a more controversial issue and see how you felt about it. Nothing more.

Later,
~6

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

It's just like your thoughts on religion in the other post man....

Government has no right to decide where you can smoke, as long as THE PEOPLE are okay with it there.

Can you let THE PEOPLE vote on it, or does government also have no right to decide things by putting them to a vote?

Quote:

Don't go into a Catholic church and demand they marry gays.

I promise I won't. And in return, you'll agree to stop coming into public schools and demanding they teach religious mythology as "science", 'kay?

And please keep your religious zealots out of my wife's gynecologist's office, too. We don't need any religious group telling our government that they have to forcibly rape women to shame them out of seeking abortions. As all sides know, there is absolutely no medical need for such procedures, and it is purely about trying to shame people.

Quote:

Don't go into a bar and demand they ban smoking.

Wouldn't dream of it. Since they banned smoking in bars here, I don't go out to bars anymore, because without the smoke, all you can smell are the vomit and Pine-Sol. :( Too much of my life was spent in smoke-filled bars, juke joints, and pool halls; for me, those places NEED smoke, or they're just not authentic.

Quote:

There are plenty of places that gay people and non-smokers can go these days.

Let the market decide.

I agree wholeheartedly. If "the market" of gay people decides they want to marry each other, let them decide, and stop whinging about it!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:30 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Can we put these ion movie theatres? That'd be nice.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

Hello,

Theater owners are capable of designing theaters that have inherent RF insulative properties. A kind of passive jamming based on architecture and construction. I often have wondered why they do not do so.

There must be a reason beyond expense, because making such enhancements to new-built theaters would not be overly expensive, and yet it is not done.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:39 PM

Hey Kwicko,

Government has no right to decide for all of us. It's a tricky issue for sure. If you have better means of getting happier in-the-middle ends, I'm all ears.

I won't demand anything about "God-creation" being tought over "Evolution" as being fact though.

I wasn't there. For all I know, God or Allah or Loki put all them bones down there just to see what we would do with them.

To me, teaching either Religion or Evolution in class is teaching Fairy Tales.

No proof either way.

Scientists just have the benefit of being able to say "well hey, it's just a theory until we prove it".

Haha... at least we agree on the smoke issue though :)

Really..... WTF is bowling if you're not smoking or smelling second hand smoke? I can't tell you how many bowling Allys in my old haunts closed down after the smoking ban.

As for gay marriages, I'm 100% behind them too. We're not arguing here. I think that they should all be legal as far as government goes. Just don't force a conflicting religion to recognize them is all.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Can we put these ion movie theatres? That'd be nice.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

Hello,

Theater owners are capable of designing theaters that have inherent RF insulative properties. A kind of passive jamming based on architecture and construction. I often have wondered why they do not do so.

There must be a reason beyond expense, because making such enhancements to new-built theaters would not be overly expensive, and yet it is not done.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

Alamo Draft House does it the old-fashioned way. You talk on your phone, and you are OUT OF THERE, period. No refunds, no bullshit. They are very up front about it, too; in fact, they made a rather famous "PSA" about it that they run in all their theaters.

http://theuniblog.evilspacerobot.com/?p=5608

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:43 PM

Quote:
As for gay marriages, I'm 100% behind them too. We're not arguing here. I think that they should all be legal as far as government goes. Just don't force a conflicting religion to recognize them is all.

Oh, that's fine; I don't recognize theirs! And as long as they don't recognize the rights of others, I feel no need to recognize their rights, such as property rights, etc. ;)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:48 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Alamo Draft House does it the old-fashioned way. You talk on your phone, and you are OUT OF THERE, period. No refunds, no bullshit. They are very up front about it, too; in fact, they made a rather famous "PSA" about it that they run in all their theaters.

http://theuniblog.evilspacerobot.com/?p=5608

Hello,

Barring my wife, some nice trees, and a few flowers...

That is the most beautiful thing I've seen all week. :-)

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, that's fine; I don't recognize theirs! And as long as they don't recognize the rights of others, I feel no need to recognize their rights, such as property rights, etc. ;)

Not at all.....

I am talking about their property rights. Their rights to cheaper taxes, any benefits that a married couple would get.

I believe that, barring any local law against it, any gay couple should be able to (at the very least) marry within a government setting. Afterwards, they would be fully entitled to any benefits and tax breaks that hetro couples would be privy to.

Hell... I'm SINGLE and I have to pay MORE than anybody.

It's not right.....

I'm 32 and have no kids. I should be paying the LEAST taxes, yet I pay the most.

Let the gays marry, with the consent of big Gumment, and God bless them.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 8:10 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Anthony, why else would someone have a jammer except to mess with others' civil rights to communicate?

Movie theaters: It makes sense to build them like that, they just need to let movie goers know this is how it is and it would probably be fine, you know what you're going into.

Smoking: I'm all for banning it indoors at places where children are present. In Portland its banned inside all bars and over 21 locations as well, sure it smells good and I like it, but I don't think its really right. If everyone inside is grown and the owners think its okay to smoke inside their establishment, then it should be allowed. If someone doesn't want to work in that environment they don't have to apply there. Just because I like not smelling it at the bar doesn't mean I feel its right to have that government mandated rule.

I think the jammer guy was rude and potentially causing harm, emergencies and so forth like Byte said.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 8:54 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Anthony, why else would someone have a jammer except to mess with others' civil rights to communicate?

Hello,

Some people might like to make sure their communications on their private property are secure. So if a homeowner wanted to jam transmissions on his own property, I think that should be well within his rights.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Monday, March 5, 2012 12:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Smoking: I'm all for banning it indoors at places where children are present. In Portland its banned inside all bars and over 21 locations as well, sure it smells good and I like it, but I don't think its really right. If everyone inside is grown and the owners think its okay to smoke inside their establishment, then it should be allowed. If someone doesn't want to work in that environment they don't have to apply there. Just because I like not smelling it at the bar doesn't mean I feel its right to have that government mandated rule.

I think the jammer guy was rude and potentially causing harm, emergencies and so forth like Byte said.

Thanks Riona. It's always refreshing to hear that point of view from a non smoker. (At least, I suspect you are a non-smoker)

I agree with you that any place like school buildings or churches or anywhere else that kids are forced to go should be non-smoking. My only disagreement to where kids might go would be in restaurants that weren't kid themed. That should still be up to the owner, and if the parents don't want their kids exposed to smoke, they can either take-out the food, or they could go to a non-smoking restaurant. Of course, there should be no smoking in Chuckie Cheese's, but other than places like that, let the market decide.

At the very least, there should be smoking sections as well for concerts and sporting events, particularly if they're open-domed venues, and even the closed domed ones if proper ventilation systems are made to keep the smoke only in the smoking areas.

I also agree that there should be no smoking in Hospitals for obvious reasons, but when they take that idea too far and do not allow anybody sitting in their own car in the parking lot to smoke it infuriates me. Airplanes would be another place I agree with it because you're so confined and there's really no way to eliminate the smoke for non-smokers. My step-dad has sarcoidosis in remission and second hand smoke TRULY can kill him (immediately, like). Not that he ever travels by plane today, but before the ban on airplanes a plane trip used to be out of the question for him.

All of that being said, I love living in Indiana. Besides the cheap taxes all across the board, it's one of the decreasing amount of states that still respects smokers rights. I even smile when I see restaurants like the chinese food place down the block from me that has two big "Non-Smoking" signs in their windows. Good for them for exercising their constitutional rights. I really hope that more restaurants and bars in the state follow suit and make the issue of smoking indoors a non-issue politically before the non-smoking extremists get their way here too.

Thanks for being one of the rational non-smokers.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Monday, March 5, 2012 7:01 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Well I think the only places it should be allowed indoors are at locations where children aren't allowed, so bars and clubs. I'm not a smoker and I don't like smelling it, but if the place doesn't allow kids and the owner wants it to be a smoking zone it isn't my job to tell them no.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 12:52 PM

Well, at least we're closer in agreement than I ever come to with most non-smokers.

I still feel that if I'm a restaraunt owner, it's my perogative to allow smoking or to not allow smoking.

This then falls on the parents to police their own children. If a parent feels that 2nd hand smoke will kill their children faster than the deep fried food they're feeding them, or the Pepsi refills that will contribute to their inevitable Type 2 Diabetes, by all means, don't sit down and eat in that restaurant and find the restaurant down the block that has a no smoking policy.

I agree with you that any place specifically designed for children should be no smoking. Chukie Cheese, Discovery Zone, government funded children's parks.

I just don't agree that places where adults might get together and not bring children should be policed by the government. Let the market decide. If we weren't so busy trying to get government to outlaw everything, we'd be using the internet to convince businesses that it's in their best interest to consider banning smoking in their establishment. Like I said before, I have a Chinese place right down the block that prides itself for it's no-smoking policy in a state that allows it. I'd be willing to bet that since 75-80% of Americans don't smoke, unless their menu is really inferior, they're seeing more customers than the Chinese food place a mile down that does allow smoking.

Just because laws in my state, and other states that still believe in personal liberty, allow smoking, doesn't mean that the business owners have to. Truthfully, I'm dismayed that more family owned restaurants near me haven't banned smoking by their own choice. I really hope that more of them do. Once about 50-75% of them have voluntarily banned smoking, there should start to be a point where some of these businesses begin to see that banning it is actually costing them money and customers, and some restaurants would then reverse the decision. At some point, a healthy equilibrium will be established, and smokers and non-smokers can live in harmony because they all have a place to go.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Tuesday, March 6, 2012 5:49 PM

FREMDFIRMA

There's an irony here in that with many small restaurants part of the problem is wholly inadequate ventilation is in fact the major problem, and a safety hazard besides cause that can be disastrous in the event of even a minor kitchen fire - but nah, so much easier to blame smoking right ?

One local restaurant before the whole slew of ordinances thing took a vote on it from their own customers, many of whom smoked, but voted non-smoking cause the place is so bloody small with poor ventilation, once again proving a lie of the automatic assumption that smokers don't give a damn about the rights and comfort of others - which isn't true, but the insinuation has been shovelled so often everyone has started to believe it regardless of the evidence otherwise.

Making your venue nonsmoking isn't gonna solve your crummy ventilation, if anything it's gonna become more noticeable cause then there's no excuse, nothing else to blame it on but poor design and inadequate airflow.

All that said - I cannot usefully comment on the cellphone issue without being somewhat hypocritical and dishonest given that I am actually making a small bit of change on the side from Geekfarm selling such devices, although for some of the same reasons mentioned here those are much shorter in range (about 12 feet) as a safety and respect issue.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, March 7, 2012 3:38 PM