The drugs thread - marijuana, tobacco, caffeine, cigarettes et al by Magonsdaughter

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:

Upset stomach and heartburn may occur.

Tell your doctor immediately if any of these unlikely but serious side effects occur: easy bruising/bleeding, difficulty hearing, ringing in the ears, change in the amount of urine, persistent or severe nausea/vomiting, unexplained tiredness, dizziness, dark urine, yellowing eyes/skin.

This drug may rarely cause serious bleeding from the stomach/intestine or other areas of the body. If you notice any of the following rare but very serious side effects, seek immediate medical attention: black/tarry stools, persistent or severe stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, slurred speech, weakness on one side of the body, sudden vision changes or severe headache.

A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, seek immediate medical attention if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), severe dizziness, trouble breathing.

This medication should not be used if you have certain medical conditions. Before using this medicine, consult your doctor or pharmacist if you have: bleeding/blood-clotting disorders (such as hemophilia, vitamin K deficiency, low platelet count).

If you have any of the following health problems, consult your doctor or pharmacist before using this medication: kidney disease, liver disease, diabetes, stomach problems (such as ulcers, heartburn, stomach pain), asthma, growths in the nose (nasal polyps), gout, certain enzyme deficiencies (pyruvate kinase or G6PD deficiency).

This medicine may cause stomach bleeding. Daily use of alcohol and tobacco, especially when combined with this product, may increase your risk for this side effect. Limit alcoholic beverages, and stop smoking. Check with your doctor or pharmacist for more information.

Before having surgery, tell your doctor or dentist that you are taking this medication.

Older adults may be more sensitive to the side effects of this drug, especially stomach ulcers.

Not recommended for use during pregnancy. Consult your doctor before using this medication if you are or think you may be pregnant. Tell your doctor immediately if you become pregnant while taking this medication. Do not use this medication during the last 3 months of pregnancy because of possible harm to the unborn baby or problems during delivery.

This drug passes into breast milk and may harm the nursing infant. Breast-feeding while using this drug is not recommended. Consult your doctor before breast-feeding.

This is NOT a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.

Hello,

I believe all drugs are dangerous. I can't listen to a drug advertisement on television without being horrified. The side-effects sound worse than the disease.

I think anyone who makes a claim that any drug is absent harmful effects is deluding themselves. It's the wrong argument to make. What they ought to be saying is that they personally feel using the drug is worth the risks, and that they feel people should have the right to make that determination for themselves.

Here's another one:

Quote:

SIDE EFFECTS: Nausea, vomiting, stomach upset, headache, trouble sleeping, restlessness, rash or dry skin may occur. If any of these effects persist or worsen, notify your doctor or pharmacist promptly.

Tell your doctor immediately if any of these unlikely but serious side effects occur: trouble breathing, vision changes.

In rare (sometimes, fatal) cases, this medication has been associated with a serious stomach condition (necrotizing enterocolitis).

This is not a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.

These are legal medicines. Available without a prescription.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:17 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

My wife quit smoking last May, and it has stuck, at least so far. She went to an all-natural, no additives tobacco which she bought at a local "roll-your-own" shop (you buy the tobacco and filters, and their machines will roll you 200 cigarettes for about $20 less than a carton of brand-name smokes). After about 6 months of smoking these non-additive cigarettes, she felt she was ready to just walk away from all of it.

I quit a few years ago myself, but did it cold turkey off the brand name smokes, and it seemed harder for me than it did for her.

From this experience, I'd recommend the "natural" cigarettes to anyone who even wants to THINK about quitting.

Another thing that helped both of us through it? Every time we thought about buying cigarettes, we'd think of the people we're making rich, who are actively trying to kill us with their products. Instead of getting desperate, we got angry. And it's worked.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:21 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Some people seem to have an easier time quitting than others. There are studies showing that people with mental health differences have a harder time quitting because our brains are wired a bit differently, duh. My brother tried to quit once and turned into the hagbeast for six weeks until he gave in and started again. We all know he has mental health differences except him.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:28 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Some people seem to have an easier time quitting than others. There are studies showing that people with mental health differences have a harder time quitting because our brains are wired a bit differently, duh. My brother tried to quit once and turned into the hagbeast for six weeks until he gave in and started again. We all know he has mental health differences except him.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Hello,

It's hard to see these sorts of things in yourself.

For my own part, I am addicted to Coca Cola. Seriously. I've tried to quit on numerous occasions. Sometimes I've been successful for over a month. Then somewhere I have 'just one' and it's all over.

I feel like an alcoholic, but obviously there's no support group you can go to for this stuff without everyone there thinking you're an asshole for comparing your problems to theirs.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
My wife quit smoking last May, and it has stuck, at least so far. She went to an all-natural, no additives tobacco which she bought at a local "roll-your-own" shop (you buy the tobacco and filters, and their machines will roll you 200 cigarettes for about $20 less than a carton of brand-name smokes). After about 6 months of smoking these non-additive cigarettes, she felt she was ready to just walk away from all of it.

I quit a few years ago myself, but did it cold turkey off the brand name smokes, and it seemed harder for me than it did for her.

From this experience, I'd recommend the "natural" cigarettes to anyone who even wants to THINK about quitting.

Another thing that helped both of us through it? Every time we thought about buying cigarettes, we'd think of the people we're making rich, who are actively trying to kill us with their products. Instead of getting desperate, we got angry. And it's worked.

Took me a long time to give up cigarettes, and I switched to the rollies, only I used to roll my own. It looked terribly eccentric, but in the end I preferred it, it was heaps cheaper and healthier and I still missing rolling, gave me something to do with my hands.

The physical withdrawal was the easiest, just lasted a day or two of feeling irritable, but cigarettes had become a whole way of life. Breaking for a smoko, hanging outside, something to do when I was bored, tense, tired, uncertain. I went into a mourning for the loss.

Haven't smoked for 13 years. Don't miss it now. Had a few puffs last year when I had had a few (drinks) and hated it.

Now all I have to do is give up alcohol and coffee and I'll be addiction free.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:54 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I don't know what thread this is being continued from, but some of this caught my eye:

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
I would question the difference between "dependent" and "addicted"...I'm believe marijuana can cause PSYCHOLOGICAL dependency, for many reasons--not all having to do with the properties of the drug--but I've seen no scientific evidence that it is physically addictive.

Well again, I think the science is incomplete. But in the end, whether you are dependent or addicted, the effect is really the same, isn't it?

As far as I can tell, drugs that are classified as "physically addictive" are drugs that mimic the effects of certain chemicals the body produces. In some cases (such as with opiates) the replacement is so flawless that the body stops making the chemical in question, causing major problems when the drug is out of the system for too long. Drugs that are classified as "psychologically addictive" all seem to be drugs that stimulate the body to boost its production of certain chemicals (or, sometimes, to lower its production of an excitatory neurotransmitter) so in these cases, regular production is not shut down. However, removal of this sort of drug from a system that is used to it still means less of whatever chemical is desired. (Or, in more rare cases, more production of something that might not be desirable in high doses.)
So yes, Magons, I agree that the end result is ultimately the same. Shutting down the body's production of something is going to cause more severe problems during withdrawal, but it all causes some fairly serious shifts in neurotransmitters, hormones, or other powerful chemicals.

Let's look at nicotine, for example. The current model of why nicotine is so addictive is that it works with the dopamine system, causing a "reward" feedback in the brain. This is either because it's similar to dopamine or because it enhances the effects of dopamine by attaching to it. Either one of these actions would probably lower the production of dopamine, because not as much would be needed to get the same results. Dopamine might be the single most important chemical in your brain; it is very powerful. It controls not only reward feedback, but learning, pattern recognition, and movement. People who give up nicotine, even after they get over the painful withdrawal symptoms, feel sluggish in their thinking because they aren't getting that boost anymore. This particular effect of quitting can last a year or more, and can be enough for people who have successfully gone through withdrawal to take up cigarettes again. Nicotine, by all accounts, is one of the most difficult things to quit.
I don't have any experience with nicotine addiction. Smoking never appealed to me. Of course, a few years ago, several of my neurotransmitter levels were tested and my dopamine levels were nearly twice the average, so it's possible that I personally would have found the effects of nicotine unpleasant and anxiety-inducing. I'm lucky I never smoked marijuana, because one of the things I've read about it is that it signals the brain to lower production of dopamine. At the same time, it signals the enteric nervous system to up its production of serotonin. When my results came back, by the way, my serotonin was at about half the average. So odds are, I would have really liked the effects of THC. (I started taking 5-htp, which has some similar effects on body chemistry, and have done very well on it. It's fortunately legal and doesn't require inhaling something that isn't air.) If I had gotten addicted to marijuana, withdrawing from it would have likely made me feel anxious and unhappy, because my neurotransmitter production would have gone back to where it once was. Marijuana is considered "psychologically addictive" because withdrawal can have this sort of psychological effect. It doesn't mean the effect is less real, though, or that it has no basis in chemistry happening in a person's system.
Now, one thing I am familiar with being addicted to is caffeine. Caffeine is an interesting one, because it's really easy to get addicted to, and it's fairly easy to stop. I've given up caffeine at least five times, then started using it again when a new semester started and then given it up again. Headache for a few days, if that, and I was set. Few weeks off of caffeine, and it only takes a little bit to give a nice energy boost, but then it starts taking more and more of it. So, caffeine works on the adrenals, stimulating production of their very special hormone. Adrenaline works on the same system as neurotransmitters, which is why its effects are felt far more quickly than most hormones. Again, it's a very powerful chemical, but caffeine doesn't replace it. What it can do is make the adrenals a little tired, so it really is sort of midway between the addictiveness of most things, because it can take a little time for your adrenals to get back to normal production of all the things we need to keep us going. (Adrenals produce more than adrenaline; they're also in charge of norepinephrine and cortisol, so if they're a little worn out we feel it.)
Anyway, addiction is addiction. It all centers on the powerful forces of biochemistry. (I happen to think that certain foods are technically addictive for this reason, though a lot of people scoff at such a notion. I don't care what anyone says, I was addicted to sugar, and quitting was the hardest thing I've ever done.) I don't support addiction, as a general rule, but there are plenty of people who do genuinely need the substances they're addicted to, whether they're considered "physically" addictive or not. Finding better options for shifting and balancing personal chemistry is, of course, the ideal option, but it's not always that easy.
And in some cases, we just need a better delivery system. Nicotine isn't really all that bad. It's not nicotine by itself that causes all that lung cancer, it's the burning tar and stuff. Moderate nicotine has been shown to have several benefits, actually. So has caffeine. Hell, so has THC and other cannabis compounds. Long-term opiate use can really mess you up, though. Shuts down endorphin production. My all accounts, withdrawal from something like heroin is the worst withdrawal there is, and that shutdown is why. Nicotine is fine, though, and I think some people need it.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2012 10:13 PM

HKCAVALIER

A major factor in how hard it is to quit is how old you were when you started. People who get hooked while they're still teenagers (and younger!) will have the hardest time quitting because they became addicted at a time when their body's chemical balance was still being worked out. So the drug becomes a part of what the body understands as "normal." And abstenance is experienced as an imbalance. Very hard to rewire that.

Whereas, folk who get addicted in their twenties and beyond tend to have a much easier time "resetting" their bodies to a time before the drug. That's why cigarette companies continue to market to children and why MacDonald's has those disgusting playgrounds. They want their drug of choice to become part of your body's basic chemical makeup.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 4:33 AM

CAVETROLL

I don't believe that drugs should be restricted. The artificially high cost of drugs in the US is part market mechanics and part covering the cost of overhead. I think that if I want to buy percocet, I should be able to walk into the drug store and buy percocet.

In the late 19th century you could buy opiates over the counter at drug stores. Despite the easy availability of lethal drugs, street sweepers weren't complaining about all the overdosed bodies littering the streets. Now, with regulations and restriction of drugs, we still have people who get addicted to drugs. They still manage to feed those addictions. And I'm talking about prescription drugs, not alcohol or tobacco.

I'd like to see the FDA continue to monitor the drug business for purity and safety before a drug is released to market. I just don't believe we need a nanny to watch over us.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:17 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Just a few quick comments on addiction

IMHO addiction is whatever you do to get that jolt of dopamine, whether that is playing video games, eating starch combined with grease (there go my opiod receptors!) supporting a baseless idea (delusion), or mainlining heroin. SOME forms of addiction involve psychoactive drugs, but not all.

People who are generally low in dopamine probably have higher rates of addiction.

In addition, people are born with different sensitivities to various chemicals- for example, some people have two copies of the gene for nicotinoid receptors and are powerfully addicted to nicotine, most have only one copy, and some have none and literally cannot get addicted to cigarettes. That probably explains why some people can get hooked on the first try of some things, and others walk away. that also explains why some addictions (like alcoholism) runs in families.

As HK said, when you get accustomed to a chemical also makes a difference.

Psychoactive chemicals are rate-and-dose-dependent. If you had to chew on coca leaves to get your buzz, it would prolly be a lot like drinking coffee. But inhaling it creates a huge rush.

If you have headaches unless you drink caffeine, you are probably a migraineur. There is nothing wrong with drinking coffee or tea (unless the tea is grown in Japan and contaminated with cesium) so keep drinking it.

As far as personal addictions, I could count eating, alcohol, and computer time as areas that I have to watch. Never really started smoking, never really tried many street drugs, but started to get hooked on Darvocet and had to stop after four or five pills because I could see which way it was heading.

If you grew your own coca, pot, poppies and tobacco ... literally... and ingested it in its natural form and concentration there would prolly be less chance of you getting addicted because the dose and rate really makes a difference. As the cigarette mfrs and drug dealers have figured out.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:21 AM

Just for snickers, about side effects...
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SideEffectsInclude?from=Mai
n.YesButWhatDoesZataproximetacineDO
Wacky fun, that.

As for the rest - all things in moderation is a good policy, as well as use the minimum necessary.

And a mild rant here...
See, I've been forbidden to even try to quit smoking, mind you everyone else seems to have the assumption that I might WANT to, which I do *not* - I picked up the habit because it was far more effective than the hellsbrew of antipsychotics and mood altering crap the school system and its pet docs were pushing and they were more than happy to look the other way about it given it reduced the likelyhood of other students getting hospitalized.

Furthermore, I happen to ENJOY my offensive habit - I roll my own out of smuggled, untreated bulk tobacco and I don't smoke on-duty cause it looks unprofessional and gives away your position, nor will I do so in the immediate presence of others save in my own residence and even then not near kids...
But no, everyone in the universe wants to push, push, push, dictate my own damn behavior and act like the very notion invades their space somehow - believe me I wanted to do that I'd get up close and personal and smoke an entire reekin panatella right on top of em.

Anyhows, that flaky neuro-condition which near killed me a while back is one of them things which never quite ever goes AWAY, you see, and one of the things which substantially aggravated it while in the hospital, accelerating it from cute little varicella pox to epic plague of biblical boils was the additional stress caused by a non-smoking environment - it's been noted several times in my medical file that regardless of medical support I recover better in my "Lair" and a big part of that is my smokes and coffeemaker cause throwing withdrawl on top of an existing medical crisis is IMHO bloody stupid.

Well, cause of that neuro-whateveritis, I cannot get too far away from my Lair or for two long, or the stress thereof will run down my immune system and cause a relapse, which has a progressive chance of immediate fatality via stroke - and you know what ELSE would cause that same level of stress and risk of death ?
Yeah - of course that'd presume I WANTED to quit, which I don't, and frankly living in Brooklyn/Curtiss Bay for some time did more potential respiratory damage than smoking ever could, not to mention if THAT alone is what kills me it'll be a hell of a surprise.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-09-18/news/bs-ed-incinerator-201
10917_1_incinerator-project-hawkins-point-clean-water-action

Quote:
According to the Environmental Protection Agency's Toxic Release Inventory, existing facilities in the Curtis Bay, Brooklyn, and Hawkins Point neighborhoods emitted over 13.5 million pounds of hazardous air pollutants in 2009. It is not surprising that those same communities have some of the highest death rates from chronic lower respiratory disease in Baltimore City.

The EA incinerator will add to this existing toxic soup, producing ash and gases that contain known carcinogens linked to asthma, bronchitis, developmental delay and nerve damage.

Energy Answer's permit also authorizes it to emit 240 pounds of mercury each year — as much as is currently emitted by large coal-fired plants.

For thems that don't already know, that area is a tiny little strip of land which clearly illustrates the NIMBY principle - there's like a dozen chem plants, a couple landfills, a bunch of incinerators, all in this tiny area, and the Brooklyn/Curtiss Bay neighborhood is downwind of toxic hellsbrew of chems resulting in sixty times the national average of respiratory disorders and lung cancer - when questioned on this city council officials stated that more people in that neighborhood smoke...
*rolling eyes*
One of my first legit jobs that paid well was security for one of the plants down there, a lot of which involved chasing nosy busybodies away from our illegal dumping sites, clearing the birds which dropped dead trying to fly over the plant, and stonewalling inspectors and regulators.

Yeah, verily - I know smoking is harmful, but when you're a dead man walkin any way you slice it, might as well enjoy life, is how I see it.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, I'll bite...sigh...

Magons, initially you didn't say "heavy use over a long time", you said "heavy use AND long term". If you're going to change the parameters, then it's a different debate. My argument, again, is that it's less deleterious than alcohol and tobacco. I took issue with your "long-term" because I am a long-term user, tho' in small quantities, and I have friends who have been, also in small quantities. There is no question in my mind that if one smokes several entire joints in a day over years, of COURSE it will have serious consequences.

The questions re: mental illness and drugs. Of course we self-medicate; most of us before diagnosis, some after. I don't think bipolar drugs are particularly harmless; in that case it's a matter of the good outweighing potential bad, for ME. I choose to take them, tho' I suffer some consequences and the psychotropics I take (Effexor and Lamictal) are still so new that nobody knows what the long-term use will cause. But when it comes to marijuana, again, it didn't cause my predisposition to manifest, being in the corporate world "long term" did that.

Oh, Anthony, don't get me STARTED on "legal drugs"! Me, I laugh when I hear that litany of side effects regarding drugs that aren't even necessary--like the one I'm currently hearing about a medication to LENGTHEN YOUR EYELASHES, for gawd's sake! More kids these days get high off mommy's medicine cabinet than dope, I would guess, as that's a serious problem. I won't let myself get started on legal drugs, or I'd go on all day.

Mike, amusingly I'm smoking one of those right now. I switched a while ago and now roll my own "king" cigs, in which I put two filters. I, too, heard someone say it helped them quit, but it hasn't worked for me....then again, I'm not trying. I watch Choey "quit", as well as "diet" regularly, then go back. I stopped doing that ages ago. One has to want to quit to be successful, no "tricks" will work otherwise. I switched because I hate all the additives they put in cigarettes, for no other real reason. I DO smoke LESS of them, mostly because they go out on their own so fast, sometimes even while I'm smoking them. I dunno about the money factor, I've often wondered but would have to do calculations on the cost of the tobacco, filters and papers over a period of time, and since I buy the tobacco in cans, the filters in packs of 200 and the papers come in "packs" of 35 each. Too much trouble, tho' I DO think I'm spending less to a degree...just a feeling.

Side note; I used to be the one who rolled joints for the group, I was good at it so it was just understood I would. What I roll now I do on a Zig-Zag roller with king-size Zig Zag papers, which makes me giggle. Back "then", I rolled cigs on Zig Zag CHOCOLATE papers, and used to roll joints of different kinds for Xmas gifts at the communal houses. Like Michuican Green in mint papers, Panama Red in strawberry, etc. To now be smoking cigs, this late in life, with Zig Zag amuses me. I smoke dope in a tiny pipe, so that I can close the cover after one toke because I only smoke a few tokes in a night. I haven't had or shared a full JOINT in decades, except when I go up to Paula's and share one with her, and even then stop after a couple of tokes. I smoke only a tiny bit of dope compared to most people.

Riona, absolutely. Studies have shown that those of us with mental illness are the highest group of cigarette smokers of all, and there again, self-medication. That's part of why I smoke marijuana, and I'm sure cigarettes too. For me the correlation with marijuana is that I use it as an evening cocktail, to relax and get ready for bed. But yes, many mentally ill self-medicate to a very negative degree, and many make their mental illness worse by doing so. And yes, some quit easier than others. I did speed for one Summer, but when I saw how dangerous it was in others using it, I quit right away. Given the oft-stated fact that cigarettes are one of the hardest drugs to quit, some say even harder than much stronger drugs, I'm not trying again until I feel I really want to quit. My experiences with quitting cigarettes have been massive and bad; dope I put down, as I said, a couple of times and never felt any physical withdrawal, and the only psychological withdrawal I ever experienced was the occasional "I kinda miss dope", no more.

Oooo, Anthony, Coca-Cola. I haven't touched anything like that in decades...once I saw that thing about how it dissolves pennies, that was it for me! Yet all the gory stuff about cigarettes doesn't phase me...to each his own I guess. Magons,

Quote:
Breaking for a smoko, hanging outside, something to do when I was bored, tense, tired, uncertain. I went into a mourning for the loss.

You nailed it, for me. Given I have to spend so much time in the damned recliner, I end up either eating eating eating or smoking smoking smoking...or alternating one with the other!

Cave, I agree with everything you said in your first post. And Sig, I agree with your "few quick comments on addiction".

Frem, I understand what you're saying. In both our cases, our disabilities cause us long periods of sitting and/or being quiet, and that's when the yearning for cigs comes for me, so I stopped trying long ago, too. And I abhor virulently the amount of "medications" (as in "legal drugs") they foist on us for everything under the sun these days, ESPECIALLY when they foist them on KIDS! Again, I won't get started on that subject, or my rant would go on all day.

My moto too is "all things in moderation"...except chocolate, tho' I've got a problem there. My physiology is weird, I guess--they put me on Zoloft when I was first dx'd. It gave me hives, or something like it, whenever I got hot or exercised. Got off it right away, but have still gotten the hives since then. They put me on an osteo med post-menopause; it gave me reflux and I got RIGHT off it, but am now on a reflux med because it never went away, tho' I'd never had reflux in my life before that! So now chocolate is something I have to do in moderation at night, dammit. I'm lothe to take any meds my doctor prescribes anymore because of these two experiences!

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 7:24 AM

I have a hard time getting addicted to anything, because I recognize routines make me depressed. I have this picture of a rat on a stupid exercize wheel, mindlessly going around, and it stops me from doing most anything over and over.

But I never pass up an opportunity for cream cheese or really creamy stuff, custard, creme brulee, crab rangoon, sushi, pineapple cream cheese on crackers, chocolate cream cheese on chocolate rice cakes with strawberry spread. *salivates

I'm pretty sure my addiction to cream cheese will kill me faster than an addiction to cigs, hah... Fortunately, I also really really like oatmeal, so my cholesterol is fairly normal, yay.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:54 AM

Quote:
Magons, initially you didn't say "heavy use over a long time", you said "heavy use AND long term".

I think you're splitting hairs here! I'm pretty sure that none of my posts said 'having a joint here or there or occasionally.' I really have been referring to people who use it regularly and for for a long time. The heavier the use, the more serious the consequences for most people. Like alcohol.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:26 PM

Lmao Wish - my bane in that respect is pizza, to the point where I consider one of them five dollar ones from little cesars to be, err, single-serving size - and the freaky thing is given my physical size in comparison it shouldn't even logically FIT, but somehow... OM NOM NOM!

Niki, I use uncoated TOP rolling papers and don't bother with the filters, they go about $0.68 for a rack of 200 or so, and the smuggled tobacco runs about $13-$16 a pound, so it's dirt friggin cheap, despite MI recently jacking the taxes on bulk tobacco 1300 percent (NOT a typo) in the usual abuse of the tax code to force "moral" behavior in violation of the first amendment, which most manufacturers simply ducked anyway by changing the packaging and reclassing the product as type L "pipe" tobacco as a smack in the face to the system...
Back in Baltimore the cops used to threaten to bust me for paraphanelia just for having papers when they felt like hassling me, so I started DELIBERATELY rolling my smokes torpedo-style in order to mess with them right back, and yanno, they tasted better that way, so I still do so.

*shrug*
Prohibition don't work, but since it's a money making business and allows the bullies of our society free reign to do as they please, the facts of the matter don't never seem to matter none.

ETA: Cheat, Niki - Whoppers are CAROB, not chocolate, and the malt/whey is good for bone/calcium loss issues...

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:59 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I have areally addictive personality, always have. When I was a little girl I was never allowed to sleep in bed with my parents because my mom knew I'd never be willing to sleep in my own bed again and it would be agony breaking me of it, so I only slept in bed with her two or three times in my life.

Frem how long have you lived in MI?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Lmao Wish - my bane in that respect is pizza, to the point where I consider one of them five dollar ones from little cesars to be, err, single-serving size - and the freaky thing is given my physical size in comparison it shouldn't even logically FIT, but somehow... OM NOM NOM!

Uhnt uhh, Papa Johns CHEEEEZsticks with GHAAAarlic sauce, Zombie-wish MUST have it. ohhhhhhhhh. I know where we're going fer lunch Saturday!!

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Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Frem how long have you lived in MI?

Well over a decade now, s'funny - I loved this state since the moment I laid eyes on it, back when PC repair was so bloody expensive it was cheaper for a friend to buy a round trip plane ticket than take it to a shop...

And given how much I hate, hate, hated Texas and the people there, moving here soon after was a foregone conclusion.

And Maryland, Baltimore in particular, well, best thing that could ever happen to THAT place is fifty megatons.

Oh and Wish, you know what I really miss - which used to be a staple of our tabletop gaming sessions ?
Pizza Hut BIGFOOT, oh man I could tear into one of those, ooooo yessss... *drools*.

General rule was everyone else picked out their share and tossed me the rest - OM NOM NOM!!

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:45 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I miss the Pizza hut Florentine pizza, which no one seems to remember but me.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 5:40 AM

BYTEMITE

Little Caesars is actually the best pizza, by virtue of the others falling prey to the "too much of a good thing" clause. As such the competitors all are super greasy and basically unpalatable.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:18 AM

Well that five bucks (as opposed to $8-$13) don't hurt neither, I can score two of em for $10.60 which is actually a respectable amount of food for the price.
Which thanks to my ex is actually a common bribery unit since the nomenclature of the bribe matters when trying to weasel something out of me, ergo the locals generally open the bid with X amount of LC Pizzas....

-F

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:38 AM

Oh, and back on topic, this...

Colorado Medical Marijuana Users Got the Full SWAT Treatment Because of Their Legal Plants
http://reason.com/blog/2012/02/28/colorado-medical-marijuana-users-sus
pici

What bothers me worst about this, is that in many localities, especially around here, Cops get ANGRY when the law is changed, and instead of DOING THEIR JOB, then go and decide they got some kinda divine right to re-interpret the law at whim or ignore it, which at that point IMHO reduces them to nothing more than just one more pack of armed thugs, if they were ever more than that in the first place.
I've had *that* conversation more than once with our local authorities, some of whom believe medical marijuana should be illegal and plan to treat it as such, and damn what the law really is...
Which makes a mockery of the law, of even HAVING law, or people to enforce it, does it not ?

The other thing which rooks me about this is the all too common issue of using a refusal to allow an unjustified search, *AS* an excuse to force a search - that's just plain bullshit, any way you slice it.

One of the measures I've recently thrown in the face of local authorities, is the idea of a CIVILIAN review board for police conduct drawn from the neighborhoods being served, so they can appropriately decide for themselves whether they are being protected or preyed on by their police force - actual community oversight, which I think since they pay the taxes which finance these jerks they got something of a right to...

Well, given the amount of distortion, lies, exaggeration and just flat out bullshit which is shovelled to obtain search warrants, and the complete FAILURE of most Judges to even question the obvious ones, I think that civvie review board out to be a required signatory to any search warrant which would enable the use of SWAT or a Tac-Team, what say you ?

Also, it has come up in the Godboldo case that no Judge actually signed the already-illegal order sans warrant which was used to justify that mess - that Mia Wenk simply grabbed a rubber stamp with the Judges signature and used that instead.

Now, question one, why the hell do them things even EXIST ?
These days with modern fax and other electronic communications there's NO excuse for a Judge not signing a document by hand, and the entire REASON to require such is so that the Judge in question at least pretends to read the bloody thing first.

Second, is not the potential for abuse OBVIOUS here ?
How many of these warrants, if these stamps are being used, are ever actually even read/seen by the Judge who's signature gets stamped on them ?
I mean, this is worse, in a way, than the foreclosure-fraud robosigning, cause if cops can just crank out bullshit warrants and rubberstamp them (ironic given how much of a "rubber stamp" the clueless berks on the bench are usually anyways) without even having to inform the damn judge, it makes a mockery of due process.

So hell yes I want that civilian review board, and I am most certainly throwing in the proviso that they'll have to additionally countersign any warrant which is intended to be processed by SWAT or the Tac-Team.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 7:20 AM

CAVETROLL

Frem - pizza as an addictive substance - ROFL!

Hey man, whatchu holding?

Got some Red Baron right here. No? I can maybe score you some DiGiorno, gimme an hour.

Got any Tombstone?

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 7:31 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Magons, initially you didn't say "heavy use over a long time", you said "heavy use AND long term".

I think you're splitting hairs here! I'm pretty sure that none of my posts said 'having a joint here or there or occasionally.' I really have been referring to people who use it regularly and for for a long time. The heavier the use, the more serious the consequences for most people. Like alcohol.

I know successful working professionals who have smoked it every day for decades, with no adverse effect.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 7:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
Frem - pizza as an addictive substance - ROFL!

Hey man, whatchu holding?

Got some Red Baron right here. No? I can maybe score you some DiGiorno, gimme an hour.

Got any Tombstone?

*hysterics*

Even funnier, this.

-Frem
PS. That's less of a joke than you think, Pizza Hut in part financially supported the second season of Code Geass in exchange for product placement which comes across as hilarious cause one of the characters (C.C.) has a similar weakness for pizza.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 8:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, you guys can argue pizza all day, but we owned a Round Table and I can tell you without hesitation it IS the "last honest pizza"! The franchise was very strict about quality, as were we; we bought our ground beef fresh every morning, as well as our veggies, and Jim was proud that we served the best pizza in town, in the opinion of our customers. The food is the ONLY damned thing I miss about that place, and we mourn to this day that we couldn't get our hands on the recipes for the sauce and dough. We LIVED on pizza, and I wouldn't even say the name in the same sentence as Pizza Hut or those other fakers. So THERE! ;o)

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 2:26 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I think a civilian review board is a great idea Frem, that way the cops can't get away with stuff they shouldn't be doing.

And yeah, judges should have to sign warrants by hand I totally agree, we have become wayyyyyy too dependent on technology, or rubber stamps in this case.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

I know successful working professionals who have smoked it every day for decades, with no adverse effect.

I know successful working professionals who drink every day. My manager is still smoking 20 a day after 40 years with no visible harm to her either.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 4:06 PM

I despise franchised food outlets. We have a nice local run by italians with the checked table clothes that make very nice pizza, but its just a meal and not an obsession like it appears to be with some americans. I usually order a vegetarian with chilli and anchovies or a margherita. I also don't like over topped pizzas or pizzas with processed meats. Simpler is better.

In Italy, pizza is a very different experience.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 5:01 PM

OONJERAH

A neighbor grew pot for a couple of years in his tiny greenhouse. In summer, the plants mostly were in the yard, basking in the sun.
Two former neighbors were visiting him one evening, & as they are friends of mine, too, I was there. The manager didn't like
them, and that meant they were "trespassing." She called the cops. Soon a tall, calm deputy sheriff appeared. He talked to the
visitors for a bit, saw that they were invited guests causing no trouble and began to move on.
He didn't ask about the lovely pot plants.
My neighbor was terribly disappointed by this and said something like, "Er, Officer, I have permit for these plants. Would you
like to see it?"
Officer, "No thanks. I could care less."

My kinda cop!

Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Thursday, March 1, 2012 6:14 PM

I have a funny...

Most of the guys my husband works with do something illegal...And every time they get sent for "random" drug tests and get popped they get fired and re-hired 60 days later...Well this cuts into the workforce, and thus profits...

They know my husband doesn't do anything, so they keep sending him in for these supposedly "random" tests because they have to do a set number of them... He's gone for drug testing about 30 times in the last four years.

My husband, the cleanest man in America, heh. And they have to pluck out chest hairs every time, so fun for him... His brother makes them take his pubes

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Friday, March 2, 2012 3:26 AM

Less funny is that those things are far less accurate or reliable than advertised.

I happen to like poppyseed muffins and innocently made the mistake of having some with breakfast on the morning of an interview which included a drug screening - this was when I was much younger and didn't automatically reject any employment offer which got too far into my bizness.

This damn near got me arrested, did get me hassled, blacklisted, and led to me investigating and mocking drug testing forevermore - and yet despite incident after incident, such as the herbal shampoo and soap false positives for GHB (frankly if a cop is testing your shampoo he's LOOKIN for a false positive as an excuse) or false positives off bagels or muffins, people believe in the false assurances of the drug war scam despite the evidence saying something altogether different.

Although to add some funny back into it, the realty corp we're sort of a subcorp of, the property manager made it abundantly clear that if I ever had to knock back some booze in order to function through the pain I should do so cause she'd rather have me doin the job half cooked than some less skilled yahoo clean sober.

That came on the heels of getting lightly bawled out for working a shift half-delerious with a triple digit fever, which I don't even remember despite accurately filing a maintanence log of broken lights....

-Frem

Links:
http://www.drbronner.com/punk_rock_soap_opera.html
http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poppy_seed#False_positive_drug_tests
http://lawdiva.wordpress.com/2011/07/18/newborns-apprehended-from-moth
ers-who-ate-poppy-seeds/
http://reason.com/blog/2010/11/09/eat-a-bagel-lose-your-baby

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Friday, March 2, 2012 7:17 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oonj, pretty much the way it is in CA. The cops have better things to do, and don't give a shit. It's the feds who cause the problems here.

As to employment testing, I had my own experience. I applied for a job after my first disability when the p-doc said it was too early. I wanted to get back to work. Applied for an insurance company in the City...didn't much like them, so smoked dope the night before. Wouldn't have mattered anyway, because it takes 30 days to get completely out of your system. They never said a word and hired me. Last real job I had and I ADORED it as it turned out. The office politics were awful so I tried to stay out of them; my only co-worker was hellacious, always complained, took "stress" leave every chance she got, her work sucked, she threatened to sue if they gave her any shit, etc., etc. I actually managed to train her on some stuff, and encouraged her and complimented her and she improved somewhat. It was desktop publishing and I really shined, and loved it more than about any job I've had. Then came the nationwide layoffs, and because it was the rule, they had to let me go and keep her. All those we serviced were majorly pissed, and two of them actually QUIT! One was a friend and we hiked together; she kept in touch with some in the company and said everything got tons worse after that. Always been sad about that. That's the job where I got to go to Lucasfilms as we wrote their insurance policy, and I did a log for them that they decided to USE as a result. Damn, I loved that job!

So much for drug testing in California; I was damned lucky!

And Magons, yes, pizza is definitely very different in Italy! We traveled to Verona three times back when we were working in the City and making good money; the pizza was wonderful, and unlike anything we have here.

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Friday, March 2, 2012 6:03 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Hello all,

If I may present myself on the floor of the FFF RWED crowd as a test subject, I'd like to chime in on the effects of, and the effects of being off of sweet Mary Jane.

Up until almost a year ago mid march of 2011, I had probably smoked pot 300 days a year or more.

I finally, reluctantly, cleaned myself up when I knew the job I could probably get with my contacts had a hair follicle policy (6 months positive, at least).

The first 5 years I was on pot, I was obsessive and compulsive. These five years were about mindless partying. If I didn't have a party to go to or friends who wanted to go to a bar, I was lost. This was worst during winter storms when nobody wanted to go out. My only other obsession those days were going to the gym to put on weight. In 2 years, I went from a 130lb 5'7" weakling to a 200lb brick shit house.

The second 5 years I was on pot, I completely threw out the bodybuilding and partying and all but completely isolated myself outside of contact with people at work and I obsessively saved my money after moving out of state for a great job. I also obsessively worked on an online community gaming project (a maker, not a player) that would make your head spin if you knew the time put into it when I wasn't at work and how much we got done.

Now.... One year off pot. I obsessively work on my rehab project house. (Having lost most of my beer gut is just an awesome side effect to not smoking pot and the actions my current obsession make me take on a daily basis).

The only real difference these days while off pot is I probably drink a lot more beer to compensate for the lack of it.

Not that I remember much before the pot daze, but I know that when I was a little kid, I obsessively played Atari after school (other kids were probably doing homework, but I got that all done before school was over). And years after Nintendo came out and we still didn't have one, I would dream about Super Mario Bros 1, 2 and 3 before we finally had one.

My personal opinion of pot?

It's a wash....

I was f'd up on it, for sure....

But I'm f'd up off it now....

And I was f'd up before I even knew what it was.

Not much has changed.

In the end though, I have to give the final thumbs up to the pro-pot crowd.

Why?

Have you ever had an orgasm?

Well...

Have you ever had an orgasm on WEED man?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Saturday, March 3, 2012 4:18 PM

OONJERAH

"LOS ANGELES — The prosecutor who took the rare step of charging a doctor with murder
in the prescription drug overdose deaths of three patients said Friday that the case should
serve as a warning to unethical physicians who become pill pushers."
=> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/02/dr-hsui-ying-lisa-tseng-docto
r-feelgood_n_1316262.html

I mention this because, I knew for a long time that my heart Dr. is a pill pusher.
When I discovered that he's also a pusher of unneeded stents, I quit him.

Eventho I know so little compared to a Dr., I still have to be responsible.

Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

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Sunday, March 4, 2012 1:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:

"LOS ANGELES — The prosecutor who took the rare step of charging a doctor with murder
in the prescription drug overdose deaths of three patients said Friday that the case should
serve as a warning to unethical physicians who become pill pushers."
=> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/02/dr-hsui-ying-lisa-tseng-docto
r-feelgood_n_1316262.html

I mention this because, I knew for a long time that my heart Dr. is a pill pusher.
When I discovered that he's also a pusher of unneeded stents, I quit him.

Eventho I know so little compared to a Dr., I still have to be responsible.

Personal responsibility is the Truth.
Self determination triumphs over reaction.

I don't trust ANYBODY who would prescribe man-made toxins (poisons) before looking at weed first as an alternative.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Saturday, March 10, 2012 9:32 PM

OONJERAH

NADH = nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, a liver enzyme.

For those addicted to cigarettes and with any symptoms of
niacin deficiency, I believe a NADH supplement can be helpful.

I stopped smoking shortly after I began taking it ... in 2002.

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Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:06 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:

NADH = nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide, a liver enzyme.

For those addicted to cigarettes and with any symptoms of
niacin deficiency, I believe a NADH supplement can be helpful.

I stopped smoking shortly after I began taking it ... in 2002.

]

Hello,

Aha! Perhaps this is the secret of Hepatitis!

Brilliant!

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Tuesday, May 7, 2019 11:16 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

'Magic mushroom' on Denver ballot https://www.wdtn.com/news/u-s-world/magic-mushroom-decriminalization-o
n-denver-ballot/1983681370

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Tuesday, May 7, 2019 12:12 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Wow. Seven years ago we used to have real discussions. That was before Trump Derangement Syndrome took hold, and a lot of people became stupid trolls. What a diffeence.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Wow. Seven years ago we used to have real discussions. That was before Trump Derangement Syndrome took hold, and a lot of people became stupid trolls. What a diffeence.

I agree, you really should consider not being a troll anymore. No one is buying your crap.

Maybe once Trump sheds the mortal coil, we can all get back to having marginally ineffective politicians instead of megalomaniac ones with delusions of sainthood.

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Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

My personal opinion of pot?

It's a wash....

I was f'd up on it, for sure....

But I'm f'd up off it now....

And I was f'd up before I even knew what it was.

Not much has changed.

Have you ever had an orgasm on WEED man?

How prescient. I'll go along with the still fucked up.

I'd be truly surprised if he could get it up, I've heard prolonged weed use can cause impotency in men.

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Tuesday, May 7, 2019 7:24 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Well, you guys can argue pizza all day, but we owned a Round Table and I can tell you without hesitation it IS the "last honest pizza"! The franchise was very strict about quality, as were we; we bought our ground beef fresh every morning, as well as our veggies, and Jim was proud that we served the best pizza in town, in the opinion of our customers. The food is the ONLY damned thing I miss about that place, and we mourn to this day that we couldn't get our hands on the recipes for the sauce and dough. We LIVED on pizza, and I wouldn't even say the name in the same sentence as Pizza Hut or those other fakers. So THERE! ;o)

Round Table Pizza!!

Anybody know which town this was in? Or when?
They no longer make or serve Big Country crust, from what I have found. And the menu is a bit different, but you can still order much the same. I think the new signature topping combinations have a discount, so that is cool. Still the best pizza I've had in the last 6 years, which also includes the 26 year span before that when I was out of the territory. It was the near or best pizza I had for the prior 4 years when I was in the territory. I would still visit home, and the Rocky Rococco's Pizza was still the original ingredients back then.

The last few times I've had RTP, the sensation was almost verwhelming how good it was, even though it wasn't exactly the same as I had decades before.

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Tuesday, May 7, 2019 9:00 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Wow. Seven years ago we used to have real discussions. That was before Trump Derangement Syndrome took hold, and a lot of people became stupid trolls. What a difference.- SIGNY

I agree, you really should consider not being a troll anymore.- TWTICHY

There's that derangement syndrome rearing it's ugly head again.

My posts haven't changed but, TWITCHY, you've become a complete byatch. How about YOU stop being a troll??

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Wednesday, May 8, 2019 1:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

There's that derangement syndrome rearing it's ugly head again.

My posts haven't changed but, TWITCHY, you've become a complete byatch. How about YOU stop being a troll??

Wait, I've seen the power of the Dark Side. I am totally going to become a compulsive liar, tweet incoherently at 4 in the morning, ignore and break all laws that are inconvenient, and pretend to be a moral person while cheating with every easy piece of tail I can find.

Not a THING deranged about THAT, right?

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Wednesday, May 8, 2019 3:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

There's that derangement syndrome rearing it's ugly head again.

My posts haven't changed but, TWITCHY, you've become a complete byatch. How about YOU stop being a troll??

Wait, I've seen the power of the Dark Side. I am totally going to become a compulsive liar, tweet incoherently at 4 in the morning, ignore and break all laws that are inconvenient, and pretend to be a moral person while cheating with every easy piece of tail I can find.

Not a THING deranged about THAT, right?

So here you are, posting compulsively at 2 AM, lying about all kinds of things, attacking and defaming people relentlessly, and pretending to be a moral person. (I have no idea whether or who you cheat with.) So ... well, yes now that you mention it ... that DOES sound a little deranged, on your part.

TWITCHY, EVEN IF Trump does all of the things you think that he does and has no redeeming qualities or policies whatsoever, how does that give YOU license to be a complete byatch online? It's not ethical and it's counterproductive; so what in hell do you imagine that you're accomplishing?

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .

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Wednesday, May 8, 2019 12:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

TWITCHY, EVEN IF Trump does all of the things you think that he does and has no redeeming qualities or policies whatsoever, how does that give YOU license to be a complete byatch online? It's not ethical and it's counterproductive; so what in hell do you imagine that you're accomplishing?

LOL. You sound a little touchy about my DEEP PERMANENT HATRED for Trump.

Maybe it's just that disingenuous people make me sick. I dunno.

The real question here...

WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER TO YOU THAT I HATE TRUMP? If you didn't have your own agenda to push here, what would it REALLY matter??

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Wednesday, May 8, 2019 1:42 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
TWITCHY, EVEN IF Trump does all of the things you think that he does and has no redeeming qualities or policies whatsoever, how does that give YOU license to be a complete byatch online? It's not ethical and it's counterproductive; so what in hell do you imagine that you're accomplishing?

LOL. You sound a little touchy about my DEEP PERMANENT HATRED for Trump.

Maybe it's just that disingenuous people make me sick. I dunno.

The real question here...

WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER TO YOU THAT I HATE TRUMP? If you didn't have your own agenda to push here, what would it REALLY matter??

Nilbog.

Misery.

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Wednesday, May 8, 2019 1:54 PM