Carry On. by Wulfenstar

That was nice, Wulf. And good job on becoming a firefighter. I always thought you had courage.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 11:29 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I'm glad you've found a job that makes you happy.

Quote:
I'm one of the people standing between you and the dark.

Still a ways to go on your journey, though.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 11:33 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I'm a volunteer. It's not a job. I'm not paid for it.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 3:42 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Talking isn't doing. Blogging isn't work. FB never changed anything. Writing here doesn't change people, or make any real difference. Donations only sometimes go to those who actually do the work.

So why are you here? Why did you write this?

FB never changed anything? Wanna bet?

You're betraying your ignorance yet again, Wulfie, and showing how very little you pay attention.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:01 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I'm happy to hear from you Wulf, I was wondering how you guys are getting on with the pregnancy.

That was an amazing post. I didn't know you were firefighting, that is so cool and it sounds like its really a good line of work for you and that its fullfilling. I think the point you're trying to make is not that its bad to write on websites, as our not-thinking-hard-enough-about-it Quicko thinks, but that its easy to sit on one's arse and whinge, but its another thing entirely to get out there on the front lines of life and make a difference in the lives of people in our communities, one person at a time.

Quicko, you're being really mean to Wulf. I know you don't like him, but I don't ever want to hear any more luh suh coming from you and Frem etc. about how Wulf is a coward. People who do that for a living, or for volunteer, aren't cowards, quite the opposite. And if I ever hear Frem say he's a coward again, or you say it, I'm going to give you guys a hard time.

I hope the pregnancy is going good, is she having lots of cravings? What month are you guys in? Babies are exciting!

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:20 PM

I'm being honest, Riona. I expect you to know the difference.

Coming here to post about how writing and blogging do nothing is more than a bit ironic, wouldn't you agree?

Claiming that facebook hasn't ever changed a thing is quite factually incorrect, and betrays a stunning level of ignorance, as well as a surfeit of hubris. Planned Parenthood and the Komen for the Cure Foundation would agree that facebook has indeed accomplished quite a bit. The Arab Spring would also like to weigh in on the matter of social media, as would Rush Limbaugh's sponsors and some guy named Kony.

As for Wulfie volunteering, good for him. It's about time he gave something back. Hell, I'm surprised he's not demanding to be paid, though. Ayn Rand says altruism is evil, and she seems to be the guiding oracle of the conservative movement these days.

But if you really feel the need to give me a hard time, Riona, then by all means, fire away.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:28 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Riona,

I assume Wulf posted with good intentions.

His message, however, was ill framed.

He glorifies himself with language suited to a comic book, and then suggests that in order to make a meaningful contribution, people should be like him and stop wasting their time on forums like these.

The former part of his message seems like so much self-glorification.

The latter portion of his message is probably rather insulting to people here who have burned their candles at both ends to make positive changes in the world.

As to the negativity people feel for Wulf beyond that, there is a long history of unfortunate positions he has endorsed.

I am glad for him. I'm glad he feels good about himself and his good works. I just wish he could find a way to feel good without continuing to display some of the unfortunate attitudes he's shown in the past.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 4:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yanno, I save 10 lives every year, year in and year out. And so does everyone else in my organization, from building maintenance to office assistance to managers. How do I do this? By being one of those hated, maligned gubmint employees who force companies to do what they wouldn't do otherwise, and clean up the air enough so that 8000 people DON'T die gasping every year.

I'm glad Wulf found a calling. Given his background, he is far better off doing this then he might be doing almost anything else, and he has helped a lot of people. It is a good thing to be proud of your work, paid or not, when you are helping people. Some day, he might even recognize that OTHER people make meaningful contributions, not just him.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 5:55 PM

1.I have tried to help many people. Not just how I wanna, but how they want. It has never NOT come back to bite me in the ass. Good deeds never go unpunished, and the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Ever heard of those?

2. I try never to brag, because the universe likes to paint a big fat fucking target on me when I do. And I don't have the energy to BE a target anymore.

3. Riona. I don't really get why these people come here and call each other dogfuckers every day, but I'm guessing it's just to vent. Some people HAVE to and I guess I'd rather they did it here than out there... I just don't care enough to pick on most of 'em, I guess, but I'm pretty sure they are civil enough in person. For what it's worth, the chat rooms are almost always nicey-nice. These people are discussing real life though, and real life is...passionate.
I don't think I'd respect this place half as much as I do if everybody couldn't say what they thought and how they feel and still come back and do it again tomorrow...

AND GAWD WOULD THAT BE DULL...

I have a sudden urge to call someone a dogfucker...any takers???!

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 6:04 PM

And so, Wulf...
You finally understand.
Not just what I meant about acting locally, personally, but about what matters most in an immediate, functional kind of way.

You are however wrong about how words over the net never changed anything, words will always have power, spoken or written, for both good and ill.

I still think you got a ways to go, but being a smoke-eater is prolly one of the better ways to serve both your own emotional needs, and do something "right" besides.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 6:18 PM

I can't call you a dogfucker, Frem...but I need to at least get on the naughty list or I won't respect myself in the morning, any suggestions?

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 6:43 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I agree that the Internet can change things Quicko, I was just happy to hear about all the cool stuff Wulf is doing in his community to help people in direct tangible ways and it felt like you were poopooing that. I know bragging isn't nice but it was nice to hear what he's been up to, obviously a lot.

Wish why don't you skip it and tell us another Olly joke instead.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 6:54 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

At first I was thinking this was about luggage, then I realized it was about baggage.

Anyway, I'm glad he's found a cause. And I don't want to rain on his parade, but I think this is the second or third cause he's found. I hope this one sticks.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 6:57 PM

OONJERAH

Wishimay,
I have my friend's chihuahua, Georgie, on my lap. He likes the pictures here.
He truly hopes that you will call him a dogfucker.
And he promises to try to be one next time he sees the b--ch next door.

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 7:58 PM

*snort...HAH!

Tell Georgie I wish him luck!

My first baby was a chihuahua

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:

Wish why don't you skip it

Because... I'm an adult, and I can and will say whatever I see fit, because I have that right, Ms. GoodyTwoShoes...

Makin' the naughty list

I aim to misbehave!

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Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:50 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Boy everyone is pissy today.

Oonj that made me laugh, I liked that.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 3:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:

Boy everyone is pissy today.

Grown-ups GET pissy, especially when others try to tell them what they can't or shouldn't say. And while I'm there I'm gonna say I find your sitting around and COUNTING insults to be all 9 different levels of manipulating. You think you have the best intentions, but it's painfully obvious to me that you've just led a sheltered life.

You can't come here and step into the ring, and expect everyone to pull their punches forever because you are the "poor little blind girl" who I'm sure other people don't pick on so they won't get mired in the sugary-syrupy-sweetness you try to sell.

I'm sure as hell not gonna. I'm gonna do you the distinct favor of telling you to grow up. It's not your place to try to tell whole groups of people how to act, even if you disagree with their behavior. Which brings me to another question, if it bothers you so damn much- why are you here???

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:05 AM

Quote:
Grown-ups GET pissy, especially when others try to tell them what they can't or shouldn't say. And while I'm there I'm gonna say I find your sitting around and COUNTING insults to be all 9 different levels of manipulating. You think you have the best intentions, but it's painfully obvious to me that you've just led a sheltered life.

You can't come here and step into the ring, and expect everyone to pull their punches forever because you are the "poor little blind girl" who I'm sure other people don't pick on so they won't get mired in the sugary-syrupy-sweetness you try to sell.

I'm sure as hell not gonna. I'm gonna do you the distinct favor of telling you to grow up. It's not your place to try to tell whole groups of people how to act, even if you disagree with their behavior. Which brings me to another question, if it bothers you so damn much- why are you here???

She might be "sheltered" and you might have the right to talk to her like that, the question is whether you SHOULD. Especially if, as you say, you think she's posting with the best of intentions, and simply hasn't anticipated the consequences.

I saw nowhere that she told anyone what they could and couldn't say, only that if they did say something, she would respond by heaping up the flames on them. This is Riona we're talking about, I don't expect that's going to be a huge deterrence.

So getting your back up about this, and laying into her with that kind of talk? The specific things you insulted? Maybe you oughta try living blind for a while, just to see how easy it is to grow up. The fact that she's as upbeat as she is, that's practically a miracle.

But, I'll give you credit for being right on this part:

Quote:
Which brings me to another question, if it bothers you so damn much- why are you here???

That's very insightful, and might even be good advice.

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:

So getting your back up about this, and laying into her with that kind of talk? The specific things you insulted? Maybe you oughta try living blind for a while, just to see how easy it is to grow up. The fact that she's as upbeat as she is, that's practically a miracle.

Somebody had to be the evil fuck, and it's my time of the month... We all got some kinda problems here. You make it in the door to RWED, you're fair game. I wouldn't be doing her any favors by treating her like she's disabled or just "less than".

Probably should have a disclaimer or something...

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:29 AM

No one ever HAS to be an "evil fuck." Neither technically are you.

Yes, we do have our problems. Biggest bunch of misfits I've ever seen. But what I gotta ask, are you doing an individual a favour by being cruel, or are you doing the world a favour by being kind?

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:29 AM

Too much mercy turns into pity, and from there demeans a person.
Swim with the sharks, you gonna get bit.

Besides, there's a... "history" with Wulf and some of us, and quite a lot of it is both nasty and deservedly so in both directions.

Oh, and just for amusement - one outdoor-stray cat I sorta adopted in the ghetto, name of Mooch...
This kitty survived a house burning down over him, having all his fur burnt off and respiratory damage besides, and till he found a sure mark in me would go down the rows scratching at every door till someone fed him, smart kitty, he was.

But his primary amusing virtue was his absolute willingless to hump anything that moved, up to and including trying to molest one neighbors MALE German Shepard - this was a spring day so essentially you had half the street out there going WTF??!!! as I fumbled for a garden hose.

That poor dog was in mortal terror of the kitty after that.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:59 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

I apologize if I came off as bragging, that wasn't my intent. In fact, nothing I wrote about could have been done by myself alone. It had to be the entire crew I run with.

As to the internet not changing things, well... its true/not true. You can raise awareness about a thing, but until somebody actually does an action... its just news/info.

I just thought it might be neat to tell you guys. I mean, if someone like me can do something good, so can you.

P.S. The baby is doing fine, and my wife is very happy. 4 months to go. We are having a baby girl. :)

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:47 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Its been a while, so I thought I would check in.

Months and days...

I've been busy. Wife is pregnant, work is busy, friends call, firefighting is.... interesting.

Im doing good works. Me. This foolish bag of blood and guts, with bad thoughts and a good soul. I'm one of the people standing between you and the dark.

Damn - I thought you were going to end with, "I'm Batman."

Keep putting out fires Wulf, and keep asking questions. You're onto one of the big life changer things with this:

"You can raise awareness about a thing, but until somebody actually does an action... its just news/info."

Yup.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 7:06 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Wulf, to the best of my knowledge you've never faked things, and from your writing I've not thought you anyone's sockpuppet. So if what you wrote is for real, then I wish you the best, and please take care. I'm going to take you at your word unless something proves otherwise.

As for

Quote:
Want to make things better? You are going to have to work. Get dirty. Get tired. Get hurt. Your muscles are going to have to ache, you are going to have to be tired.

I do, and I did, and so do others here. All of that applies both to the work I did in the Gulf and to my work with the Occupy movement. What you said does have a certain "holier than tho" appearance, but we've seen that from you before so it doesn't surprise me. I don't see what you wrote about what you do as anything more than sharing, which is fine; but to tell others what they do means nothing is more judgmental than I care to accept.

If you recall, you sent money for my Gulf trip then told me not to wait to go with some group or plan, just to go do it myself. I sent you back the money, because that would have been stupid to do and because sending a contribution then telling me off was wrong. It's been pretty typical of you to have the "get out there and do it yourself" attitude, and I see that hasn't left you. So if you're actually doing what you say, that's fantastic, but please don't use it as an excuse to judge others.

As to people's ractions to Wulf, yes, there is much history there and little of it good. Before judging others on their reactions, it might be well to consider one might not have all the facts.

At any rate, good for you and do be careful.

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:35 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

One of the great things about posting things online is that you can think with your brain and then post. You don't have to spew vitriol just because its on the tip of your tongue, you've got time to think how you want to say something and then say it. It looks like Wish didn't use this privelidge that she is given. And seriously, you're going to use your period as an excuse? Whatever, speaking of growing up ...

I don't understand what visual impairment has to do with this ...

We learn new things about each other every day, I learnt some useful information about Wish today. Time will tell what I'll do with said new information.

And clearly when I do experiments on you guys you don't want to know the results. Oh well. It was just for fun, it wasn't to prove anything, people accuse each other of being mean so I thought up a method of measurement.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 6:58 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

But then, what should we post, my dear? Should we post what we really think and feel? Or should we censor ourselves to your specifications and post your posts through our fingertips?

How stifling that would be for everyone.

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 7:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
I apologize if I came off as bragging, that wasn't my intent. In fact, nothing I wrote about could have been done by myself alone. It had to be the entire crew I run with.

As to the internet not changing things, well... its true/not true. You can raise awareness about a thing, but until somebody actually does an action... its just news/info.

True, but sometimes the only real action that needs to be taken is posting about it, or joining a movement that becomes a tidal wave.

Quote:

I just thought it might be neat to tell you guys. I mean, if someone like me can do something good, so can you.

True, and hopefully you'll realize that I'm just busting your balls a bit. I'm glad you're doing something, and glad if fulfills you.

Quote:

P.S. The baby is doing fine, and my wife is very happy. 4 months to go. We are having a baby girl. :)

Congrats, and best to all.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 7:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
One of the great things about posting things online is that you can think with your brain and then post. You don't have to spew vitriol just because its on the tip of your tongue, you've got time to think how you want to say something and then say it. It looks like Wish didn't use this privelidge that she is given. And seriously, you're going to use your period as an excuse? Whatever, speaking of growing up ...

I don't understand what visual impairment has to do with this ...

Neither do I, Riona. It's not something that I think about when I respond to you, meaning I don't censor myself because you have visual impairment issues. And I've never seen you use it as any kind of crutch or as a device to get pity or special treatment, so to me it's just not an issue at all. You're you; you have vision problems, but that's just a tiny part of you, not the whole you.

I thought it was a cheap shot. Not that I'm saying there's anything *wrong* with a cheap shot now and then (I've taken more than a few at people myself!), but let's at least be honest about it...

Quote:

We learn new things about each other every day, I learnt some useful information about Wish today. Time will tell what I'll do with said new information.

And clearly when I do experiments on you guys you don't want to know the results. Oh well. It was just for fun, it wasn't to prove anything, people accuse each other of being mean so I thought up a method of measurement.

No, I think most of us absolutely want to know the results, even if we don't like what we learn. I appreciate brutal honesty, which is probably a big part of why I get along so well with Frem; he hasn't told me anything about myself that I didn't already know, even if I didn't want to admit it at the time!

I often rewrite my posts two, three, or four times before I hit the "Post My Response" button, rethinking what I've said or finding a better (either more efficient or more eloquent, or - rarely - both) way of saying it.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:50 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Really visual impairment is pretty inconsequential when compared to the rest of the stuff wrong with my brain/body.

Hi Kiki. Obviously we should post whatever we want, but when we do say what we want there are consequences in the form of other posters telling us they don't like it, hurting others' feelings etc. If you don't mind those consequences then you post it anyways. If all y'all can post meanly then so can I. I don't want to very often, it isn't something I usually enjoy, but sometimes I do it because I'm humaaaaaan as the Ferangi say. So you can post mean stuff, I can post mean stuff, we both face the consequences in the form of people being upset and sometimes being mean back. I chose to make up that neighbor trope thing, but it hurt your feelings and you told me so. So I apologized and am choosing to be more careful when talking to you in future so as to not make the same mistake again. I agree its all about choices and I never said that was a bad thing.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 14, 2012 9:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... but it hurt your feelings and you told me so."

Well, ah, no. I actually blew by it for quite a while, but something kept nagging at me that didn't add up. So I went back to figure it out. What I TRIED to do was point it out neutrally so as not to get your defenses up. That apparently read to you as me being hurt. That's one of the things I mean about misplaced assumptions.

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 4:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
One of the great things about posting things online is that you can think with your brain and then post. You don't have to spew vitriol just because its on the tip of your tongue, you've got time to think how you want to say something and then say it. It looks like Wish didn't use this privelidge that she is given. And seriously, you're going to use your period as an excuse? Whatever, speaking of growing up ...

I don't understand what visual impairment has to do with this ...

We learn new things about each other every day, I learnt some useful information about Wish today. Time will tell what I'll do with said new information.

And clearly when I do experiments on you guys you don't want to know the results. Oh well. It was just for fun, it wasn't to prove anything, people accuse each other of being mean so I thought up a method of measurement.

1. I was being truthful. I have been running an experiment since YOU (see how THAT feels?) got here and people have been pulling punches on you. Usually someone new shows up here there's at least one major disagreement right away. AND THERE SHOULD BE, It's a discussion group. But no one even bothers to REALLY say what they think, even though there's been plenty of points...Wanna guess why?

2. It's not actually my time of the month, that was just a device. True, a bad one, but I don't really care.

3. A "fun little experiment" is when you put cornstarch in a squeeze bottle and then light it on fire, not monitoring others thoughts and trying to sterilize them. I respect this place with it's open, honest discussion and these people who say what they feel enough to not let chronic walking on eggshells happen. For anybody.

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 4:24 AM

Quote:
But no one even bothers to REALLY say what they think, even though there's been plenty of points...Wanna guess why?

I defended her on that aspect because she's my FRIEND, who I met about three years ago when she started reading some of my stories.

Around the board, after the initial explanations about spelling, which again I provided, not her, her blindness hasn't come up again until now.

She has opinions people disagree with, even are appalled by (and they say so), but no one has really attacked her because her DEMEANOR does not invite attack. But when she kept needling 1kiki, 1kiki called her out on it. What else do you think that was?

People have tried before to point out the amount of negativity that happens on this board before, and been dismissed because they're not perfect either. "But you too!" everyone says. Well, yeah, everyone is mean sometimes, and depending on the week it'll come from different sources (I'm ample evidence, having been particularly negative this week), and so Riona's experiment probably wasn't truly representative of each person. Doesn't mean that pointing out that the board is really negative sometimes isn't 100% correct.

It also doesn't mean she's out to monitor everyone's posts or control everyone's speech. None of us can do that, and that's really not what she was saying or talking about.

EDIT: Niki makes a valid point in the next post. In the heat of things, it is sometimes easy to forget that this board is far, FAR from as bad as some of the comment pits I've seen. You're all good people, even when I'm seething in anger and doing my best to forget that.

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 4:27 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Riona, I agree with what you said about having time to think about what we'll write. I try to do it, too, but as Wish said, I'm only human--we all are, so sometimes there will be misunderstandings between people, as there have between you and Kiki, and me and Byte. They happen.

Personally, I have no problem with your experiment, I generally don't take things said to or about me too personally on the internet, given both the inevitability of miscommunication and the differences in people. I for one am always curious to know the results, and like I said, I tried the same thing once myself. I didn't go as far as you did (it wasn't worth the time to me), and it was back when I thought showing people the nastiness would do some good. It didn't.

Yes, I think almost all of us pull our punches most of the time, with a couple of obvious exceptions. This place is FAR less toxic than others I've been to, and I'm grateful for that. Most of us try to work out difficulties as best we can, which is really great.

Oh, Wulf, I forgot last time, but hearty congrats from me too.

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:04 AM

*makes Jayne-esque comment which leaves everyone gaping in confusion and horror*

Cause, yanno, we're LIKE that.

-F

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:57 AM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I don't mind being part of someone else's experiments Wish, experiments are fun.

Speaking of which, how about this. You seem to want to be mean to me, maybe for the next week we should be really mean to each other, say whatever we want. Then at the end of the week it will be out of your system and we can move on and be friends like normal people. Because if you're going to be mean and nasty to folk, I'd rather you did it to me than to people in your real life who are important and who could really be hurt by your apparent need to spew meanness. What do you think?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I don't mind being part of someone else's experiments Wish, experiments are fun.

Speaking of which, how about this. You seem to want to be mean to me, maybe for the next week we should be really mean to each other, say whatever we want. Then at the end of the week it will be out of your system and we can move on and be friends like normal people. Because if you're going to be mean and nasty to folk, I'd rather you did it to me than to people in your real life who are important and who could really be hurt by your apparent need to spew meanness. What do you think?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

That's not compromise, you are STILL trying to tell me what to do. NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

You are under the distinct and immature impression that I hate you because I told you off...What part of being here has made you think that we hate each other when we tell each other off? To adults that is a sign of respect.
Only a child takes it personally.

Oh, and playing a martyr is really unbecoming.
My family is just fine, but your emotional manipulations won't work, at least on me.

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 10:27 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Riona, that is gross. Or to quote a commercial airing currently, "Ew, dude, that is so gross!" It's not even "passive" agressive to say Wish is being mean to you, in a paragraph where your tone obviously indicates meanness toward Wish! In fact that entire paragraph is pretty pathetic and sounds like a playground taunt more than anything else.

I'm seeing a parallel nastiness from both you and Byte the last few days; I don't know if that's a coincidence or, since you're friends and no doubt talk privately, you're egging one another on. But for two people who are usually relatively pleasant, you've both gotten pretty nasty of late. In my opinion neither of you does it very well and it might be better for you if you didn't view everyone (or certain people) as out to get you. We ALL disagree here from time to time, some more than others, simple as that. To focus on disagreements and view them as personal will do you more harm than those you think are being mean to you. JMHO.

I try to respond to each post individually (tho' of course there is background with some people) so I end up agreeing and disagreeing with people, depending on the subject matter. If I disagree with someone--even vehemntly--on one subject, it in no way indicates that I don't like them or won't agree with them in the very next thread. It's easier that way than carrying around a lot of baggage. Obviously there are those who make it impossible NOT to carry baggage when communicating with them, but for the most part, people here are pretty cool.

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:58 PM

Byte and I have had our moments, when we were seemingly at each others' throats, and we had it out both here and via PM, and it turned out that we were actually in basic agreement with each other, but were essentially describing two different ends of the same elephant. In other words, we were looking at the same thing and reacting differently to what we really agreed on.

Once we figured that out, it was easy to move on. I believe I've had such encounters with Signy, Rue, Wish, CTTS, M4P, Frem, and Niki, among others, so it must be something in the way I communicate.

I don't think Riona's trying to tell anyone else how to be or how to act, much less what to say. She's saying go for broke, and maybe she'll do the same, or maybe she won't. I tend to treat her with a certain modicum of respect that I might not treat some others with, but that's for one simple reason and one reason only: She's always treated me with respect.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, March 15, 2012 8:04 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Wish, its kind of funny that you went off half cocked at me for no obvious reason and then you wonder why I'm thinking you're being mean, go figure. I also think there's a difference between respectfully disagreeing with someone and "telling them off". Maybe in your life people don't care if you freak out at them just because you feel like it, but people I know don't put up with that sort of thing. Of course online there's more wiggle room, we all do things online that we wouldn't do in real life, me included, because in real life there's consequences beyond someone writing stuff.

Looks like you're calming your own self down so we'll be going back to normal soon? Oh well either way none of you can damage my calm tonight because my performance went really well, so none of this luh suh really matters right now to me.

Niki, for future reference, what did I say that was grotty? Because I don't think I want to be grotty. I merely made a suggestion.

Everyone has been fractious in the last week or so on here, and I don't think we can blame it on the fact that its an election year because nothing we've fought about has to do with politics, surprisingly. I've heard that it got really bad here during the end of the 08 election, but this current spike in agression can't be attributed to that factor.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, March 16, 2012 4:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Wish, its kind of funny that you went off half cocked at me for no obvious reason and then you wonder why I'm thinking you're being mean, go figure.

I also think there's a difference between respectfully disagreeing with someone and "telling them off".

Maybe in your life people don't care if you freak out at them just because you feel like it, but people I know don't put up with that sort of thing.

Looks like you're calming your own self down so we'll be going back to normal soon?

I merely made a suggestion.

Yer still not getting it.

You use overinflated incendiary words like "spewing vitriol" and "freak out" against others and use words like "respectfully disagree" and "merely made a suggestion" to manipulate others to view you as the innocent...

You even told Kwicko that you "don't want to hear any more luh suh about Wolfie" maybe he doesn't doesn't understand emotional manipulations-my husband sure doesn't, but pretty much all you do is try to tell others what to do. And yeah, Kwicko, she DOES mean it. Mutual respect has to come from honesty, not from forced niceness.

I was fine with you until you started manipulating, and then defended your manipulations with more manipulation...I'm pretty sure you are gonna blow THAT off and say something like "That's just the way I talk" but I've got your number. You use chronic passive-agressiveness instead of being honest enough to be agressive, I'm guessing that's how you get your way, and I'm guessing that you are most likely bi-polar, because I've know a couple bi-polar people and they always manipulate instead of approaching the subject head on...

The other thing I am trying to teach you is that if you hang here you are going to be arguing, and it will get hateful and you will see a whole new side of yourself, and that if you don't like it, you are gonna not be happy much here. I also warn you that if you try to manipulate me again, I will not hesitate to jump down your throat, innocent pretences aside.

Kathy Bates would understand this, and even though the context is different, it still holds meaning for many things... "Sometimes... you HAVE to be the bitch."

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Friday, March 16, 2012 9:02 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

People are people. No matter what you want, or expect of them, they will still be people.

Like the wind, you can't control them or demand that they behave.

To demand people be good, or nice, is as win-able as punching a brick wall... and as smart. Some are good, some are bad. Some are in-between. (Most are.)

So, if you've got a conscious, and an over-abundance of empathy... how do you deal with it?

You let the chips fall as they may. If you can, pick up and carry the good who are faltering, leave the bad to rot. Which they will.

Hold to your truth, keep up yourself, help when and where you can.

Let the bad sit in their own filth and degrade.

Its all you can do.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, March 16, 2012 12:52 PM

How ARE you paying for things if you aren't getting paid for Firefighting? Babies don't run on boobpower forever...

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Friday, March 16, 2012 1:12 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Well I'd been here a year and two months and everything was going normal until two days ago. But whatever. In regard to Quicko and Frem I've heard them call Wulf a coward in the past, maybe it was one or the other of them and it wasn't both of them, in which case I apologize for lumping them together. But firefighting isn't a job for a coward. So now that Wulf has proven he's not a coward they don't have any excuses to call him one and be credible.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, March 16, 2012 2:00 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Riona, from my observations the reason things have gotten nasty the past few days is you and Byte ragging on people. Just what I've seen from reading through the threads.

As to Wulf, I can only repeat: There is MUCH history there from Wulf on this thread. You can't judge how people perceive each other through a post or two. But go ahead if you want to.

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Friday, March 16, 2012 2:24 PM

Ignoring the possibility that the reason Riona and I have been defensive might be because people have been attacking us BACK for the moment...

Has my apology been rejected? I don't understand why I am still being called out for behaviour I have apologized for unless the apology itself proved unacceptable in some way.

Or perhaps you didn't receive a PM I sent you, and continue to feel excluded from that apology? I was careful about the language of the apology, and the exclusion was not directed at you.

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Friday, March 16, 2012 7:31 PM

That were me, Rio, what called him that.
Reason for it, is that he stated he wanted to make a difference and I proceeded to spend a tremendous deal of effort and thought into teaching him how to go about doing that - this in the face of being the only one around still even half-polite to him cause his appalling conduct had prettymuch turned off everyone, and instead of even appreciating the effort he wussed out, stayed away for some time and then came back spewing a bunch of blatantly false, hateful, racist and intolerant rightwingnut agitprop while all but spitting in our faces and laughing about it.

To say that wasn't well recieved is somewhat of an understatement.

That said, I do retract calling him a coward and a gutless punk, seems he found a pair after all and good for him - but yanno a little diplomacy and a lot less arrogance would still serve him well, as there's no need to be an obnoxious Jack-ass, pun intended and he'd get the joke...
Then again, meh, look who's talkin, right ?

Still, at the time those words were uttered in his direction they were a result of conduct awful enough to have rendered that a much tamer response than the situation merited.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 16, 2012 9:30 PM

OONJERAH

I was about to post something good and wise in here.
But I suddenly realized it just wouldn't fit!

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:16 AM