REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

L.A. to outlaw free speech

POSTED BY: WHOZIT
UPDATED: Monday, March 26, 2012 09:23
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Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:36 PM

WHOZIT


If ya can't beat em, ban em.

http://www.deadline.com/2012/03/la-city-council-members-want-to-end-ra
cist-and-sexist-speech-on-radio


This would make Hitler and very happy.


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Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:45 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I oppose any such legislation. The good people of the world are doing a fine job of exercising their own free speech (and free commerce) to counter racist and sexist remarks. The government already limits speech more than I am comfortable with. Let the people of the state continue to exercise social pressure to counter bad speech. Do not use legal pressure or government force.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:55 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by whozit:
If ya can't beat em, ban em.


Free speech is too valuable to be wasted on people liberals don't like or agree with.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:03 PM

OONJERAH


Better a thousandfold abuse of free speech than denial of free speech. ~Charles Bradlaugh

Free speech is meant to protect unpopular speech. Popular speech, by definition,
needs no protection. ~Neal Boortz



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Friday, March 23, 2012 4:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, there goes Crazy California again! There are times "we" go overboard, and I can only shake my head and laugh.

In S.F. a while back, they passed an "official" something-or-other that people weren't "owners" of pets, they were "pet guardians". Never said we were sane!

At the same time, it's a "resolution", with no force...kind of like the pet guardian thing; in other words, a statement, not a law. And it only "calls on media companies to keep their on-air hosts from using and promoting “racist and sexist slurs” on radio and other broadcasts. Nonetheless, it's stupid.



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Friday, March 23, 2012 6:18 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It is stupid, and anyone in government who wants to make this the official stand of the government (even without enforcement) would find themselves voted out of office next term.

Because when your representatives are kind enough to broadcast their stupidity with an official stamp, it's our job to cut them down for it.

I hope someone in California is protesting this resolution.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 6:37 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


I just looked at the original piece. Whole thing grew out of 2 L A radio hosts calling Whitney Houston a crack ho right after she died. Coroner released the death report yesterday-- Cocaine was definitely a factor in her death. Tasteless of them to say perhaps, and surely an insulting way to express it, but they were pretty close to right.

And another point: I thought the FCC regulates, licenses, etc., radio stations, not the L A City Council. So they can say what they Want: they aren't in charge, nothing they say really matters.

E- T- A: The councilwoman entered a RESOLUTION, a statement of opinion, not a legislation, a law or rule. She's also probably in favor of " Motherhood, America, and a hot lunch for orphans."

More edit- Oh, damn, Niki already wrote that- careless of me. Sorry.

BTW, not saying I agree with her, or that this is not an assault on Free Speech, or that this is NOT a dumb idea, or that the council should be wasting time on this, just that it has no real power or authority.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 6:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Yes, but the resolution is even more offensive than calling someone a crack ho or a slut. It's the government telling people what they should and shouldn't say.

To put it another way- L.A. just issued a resolution asking the Occupy folks to stop protesting.

Why do I say this?

Because the government asking person A to stop making certain types of speech is no different than asking person B to do it.

There should be just as much outrage for both types of resolution. Whenever the government even whispers about limiting speech, I imagine it is my favorite speech being talked about.

What's your favorite speech? Imagine they had just passed a resolution about it. Even without guys and guns backing it up, I think we'd all be pretty upset.

I don't think we'd be shaking our heads and saying, "Oh, silly California and your crazy hijinks." I think there'd be cause for real ire and concern if this was the official stance of the people in charge.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 7:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Anthony, I understand how this upsets you, and I think it's 100% wrong, too, but, again, perspective.
Quote:

It's the government telling people what they should and shouldn't say.
No, it's not. First of all, they're not telling people "what they should say". Second, they're not TELLING people anything, they're "suggesting" this particular station make an effort to tone down their shock jocks.

Resolutions are made about gazillions of things in cities, states and Congress every day, and I'd guess about half of them are equally absurd...or moreso! How about Congress' House Resolution 2140, which aims to appeal to the local television and movie industry to “minimize, prevent, or stop typecasting congressmen and congresswomen as villains or crooks in movies and television telenovelas, in order not to create stereotypes or negative public perception against members of the House of Representatives.”

Can you get much more absurd? And you could easily see THAT as a form of censorship. But nobody takes these things seriously. THAT's the bottom line. Anyone can offer a resolution, and dimwits offer them all the time, from cities to states to the federal government, and even in the U.N. Some of them are just plain stupid, and offered to make a point. This one doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of passing, and even if it did, it's a resolution, a statement, it has no force of law.

Perspective.



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Friday, March 23, 2012 8:09 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

To put it another way- L.A. just issued a resolution asking the Occupy folks to stop protesting.




And yet, NYC and ( I think it was ) Boston threw the local occupy folks out of their camps the other day. I saw the stories on CNN.com, didn't hear anybody anywhere protest. They didn't pass resolutions, they just did it.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 8:15 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I think you'll find that there is an ongoing protest and burning ire at the way the Occupy protesters are being treated.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 8:25 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


If California people, and their type/grouping had their way....

This site would cease to exist.

Think on this....

The bravest people in the world have always been the ones who were the first to say "NO".

yet, the bravest were always the ones who lifted us up, out of or away from, the darkness.

The founders were correct in making the 1st Amendment, the FIRST. Because it is this ability to speak, to disagree, to argue against the common, animalistic nature of the genpop... that keeps it worth being born human.



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, March 23, 2012 8:51 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Actually, Anthony, I don't think so. I think for the most part America has forgotten about us, unless we do an action to remind them or something. Which is okay for me; we've brought attention to some stuff which has helped, and we're still around and will continue to do our bit.

Hey, we just got written up for our weekly foreclosure demonstrations. Front page and everything; it brought some people to THIS week's demonstration to ask questions...some couldn't believe what the banks have done/are doing, had never heard of robo-signings and predatory lending. Now they have, they're incensed. Baby steps.

I'm not in the photo, but I made the sign Jenna is carrying.






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Friday, March 23, 2012 8:56 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello Niki,

Can you send me the relevant data on that sign?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 9:06 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Wulf, your deliberate ignorance continues to astound me. How on earth you can make the leap to the idea that Californians would somehow eliminate this site (or any other) is totally beyond me. I can't even make that reach...

California has been one of those in the nation which HAS said "no" to many egregious things, from war to discrimination and on. We've also said "YES" to many good things, and have INVENTED things you use in your everday life, like the computer you're most likely typing on, and others you have no idea about.

It's not even ignorance, because even you must know that most movies and TV originate from California, and gawd knows how many fan sites like this one as well! So again, I can only lable it as stupidity: ignoring all the obvious facts in front of you to try and make some kind of "point" (only I can't figure out what kind of point you're trying to make).

Won't mean anything to you, but might give a giggle to some others. Here's just a teeeeny list of California firsts:

The world’s first laser was successfully
operated by its inventor, Theodore Maiman, at Hughes Research Laboratories in Malibu in the spring of 1960.

The Frisbee was invented in California

The first television was invented by Philo T. Farnsworth, and transmitted its first
successful electronic image in San Francisco on September 7, 1927.

California was the site of the first radio broadcast.

Fashion Fair Mall, in Fresno, was the nation’s first enclosed shopping mall.

San Francisco’s Genentech Inc. developed human insulin, the first product of recumbent DNA technology to reach the market.

The first seedless watermelon was developed in California.

The first node of the Internet (then known as ARPANET) was installed at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) in September 1969. The first host-to-host message was sent one month later from UCLA to Stanford Research Institute.

Around-the-clock satellite communications commenced with the successful launch of Syncom 2, a satellite built by Hughes Aircraft Company in Los Angeles in the Summer of 1963.

The first ship-to-shore message in the U.S. occurred in August 1899 when a lightship near the Golden Gate sent a dot-and-dash message to a receiving unit on shore announcing the return of the first troops from the Spanish-American War.

The first vacuum tube was invented in the Silicon Valley and would later make possible talking movies, long distance telephones, radar, microwave communications and space flight . . . just to name a few.

Los Angeles is home to the first . . .
• freeway
• gas station in the U.S.
• air passenger line in the world
• supermarket
• Barbie™
• B2 Bomber and F11-7 Stealth Fighter.

...not to mention the hoola hoop (not invented here, goes back through history, but regained popularity when a plastic version was successfully marketed by California's Wham-O toy company. In 1957.

WHERE you get your concept of California has always mystified me. Again, you seem to be unable to conceive of or give credence to anything outside your own small world.





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Friday, March 23, 2012 9:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, not to mention, do you remember the free speech movement? Guess where THAT started?
Quote:

The Free Speech Movement (FSM) was a student protest which took place during the 1964–1965 academic year on the campus of the University of California, Berkeley. In protests unprecedented in this scope at the time, students insisted that the university administration lift the ban of on-campus political activities and acknowledge the students' right to free speech and academic freedom.

Students and others opposed to U.S. foreign policy did indeed increase their visibility on campus following the FSM's initial victory, a major starting point for the anti-Vietnam war movement.

The Free Speech Movement had long-lasting effects at the Berkeley campus and was a pivotal moment for the civil liberties movement in The Sixties.

Today, Sproul Hall and the surrounding Sproul Plaza are active locations for protests and marches, as well as the ordinary daily tables with free literature from anyone who wishes to appear, of any political orientation. A wide variety of groups of all political, religious and social persuasions set up tables at Sproul Plaza. The Sproul steps, now officially known as the "Mario Savio Steps," may be reserved by anyone for a speech or rally.

The Free Speech Monument, commemorating the movement, was created in 1991 by artist Mark Brest van Kempen. It is located, appropriately, in Sproul Plaza. The monument consists of a six-inch hole in the ground filled with soil and a granite ring surrounding that hole. The granite ring bears the inscription, "This soil and the air space extending above it shall not be a part of any nation and shall not be subject to any entity's jurisdiction." Wiki




Oh, gosh, here's Occupy Oakland making use of it's free speech rights, right there on Sproul Plaza:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YvxBnPkaQ-o/Tq2RPjwnDzI/AAAAAAAAAdk/rfOJC0bk
T1Q/s1600/OccupyOakland_2011-10-28.JPG

Betcha HATE that; after all, free speech for you only counts for some...

Also, the Free Speech Zone, in the redwoods at Muir Woods National Park, about three miles from me here in Marin:


Do you understand? We gave BIRTH to the Free Speech Movement, fought for it, and it continues to be reverred today. So what are you trying to say about California, again?



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Friday, March 23, 2012 9:18 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Sigh. I hope other council members oppose it.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 9:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Anthony, I didn't post the second page, figured nobody was interested. There it says "Marin homeowner Jenna LaFleur joined the group holding a sign "Wells Fargo is selling my home, but they don't own it," referring to the legality of foreclosure sales." I'll ask Jenna if she's at Saturday's weekly rally; had to whip up the sign at the last minute when she requested it for the demonstration. We have several people who are fighting foreclosure with us; I know a couple of their stories but hadn't met Jenna until that demonstration. Will try to remember and pass along what she says.



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Friday, March 23, 2012 9:31 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Wulf, your deliberate ignorance continues to astound me. How on earth you can make the leap to the idea that Californians would somehow eliminate this site (or any other) is totally beyond me. I can't even make that reach...


He's right. The site would still be here...its the dissenting opinions that would be eliminated.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 9:33 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Oh, not to mention, do you remember the free speech movement? Guess where THAT started?


It started in Boston...by the TEA Party (original recipe, not extra crispy or with a lemony twist).

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 9:38 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I presume that there are enough free speech advocates in the 'type' or 'group' you folks are referencing that no such thing would be allowed to happen.

Just as those of another 'type' or 'group' who tried to ban flag burning or various books did not represent the whole of their constituency.

I hope that the majority of any 'type' or 'group' would oppose any such censorship, thus countering the real 'type' we all must oppose: People who rail against freedom in any 'group.'

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 9:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hear, hear, Anthony! Nobody takes them seriously, it's the opinion of a couple of people, and everyone knows that, as well as knowing that any such resolution is nothing more than a couple of people exercising THEIR right to free speech. I'll be surprised as hell if the board adopts it, and if they do, that still only reflects those people and no others.

Gawd, Hero, you're as bad as him (and your other cohorts here). The Free Speech Movement--in caps, okay?--started here. The Boston Tea Party wasn't a free speech movement, it was a protest, and protests have gone on all through history. They DID NOT HAVE FREE SPEECH in Boston at that time, or don't you know your history?

Obviously those of you who want to hang onto your desperately-needed, ideologically-driven fantasies are unreachable with facts, so I'll quit offering facts. It's just a waste of my time anyway, and it's a beautiful day outside, I've lost too much of it as it is. California is more a bastion of freedom of speech and tolerance of differences than most, if not all, other states. I realize that's part of why you hate us so much; you wouldn't be anywhere near as tolerant of any free speech WITH WHICH YOU DISAGREED as we are. Sadly, that's your loss, and the country's.


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Friday, March 23, 2012 9:49 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Funny how its only one "group" that wants to limit this inborn, freeborn, freedom.

With no one left to tell you NO, you could get away with anything.

Why you could start killing anyone who you didn't like, force people to be born into taxed-bondage, control what, where, how, when you buy things, control breeding...

I'd rather die.

No, thats an untruth. I'd rather kill those who would make such a world.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, March 23, 2012 10:00 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Funny how its only one "group" that wants to limit this inborn, freeborn, freedom.

With no one left to tell you NO, you could get away with anything.

Why you could start killing anyone who you didn't like, force people to be born into taxed-bondage, control what, where, how, when you buy things, control breeding...

I'd rather die.

No, thats an untruth. I'd rather kill those who would make such a world.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"





Hello,

If you think the enemies of freedom live only in one 'group' then you are blind.

As for the rest... I never for a moment doubt your willingness or even eagerness to kill.

Sometimes I think you wake up in the morning and pray to God, "Please Lord, give me the chance to kill someone to protect what I believe in."

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 10:01 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Funny how its only one "group" that wants to limit this inborn, freeborn, freedom."

What is 'freedom, freedom'? Is that different from regular freedom like double espresso is from regular?

And, uh, let's discuss this 'group' issue you have. On the one hand you claim there are no biases, no stereotypes, no discrimination based on group characteristics. OTOH you seem to go out of your way to group people by characteristic and to hate whole groups.

So which group du jour do you think you mean? Blacks? Hispanics? Women? Native Americans? What about Asians? You seem to like Asians, as 'group' (based on stereotypes you yourself promote). Since an Asian group supports it, does that change your attitude towards it?

And, which group or groups are you going to aim your guns at? Most of those groups --- except perhaps the Asians? B/c we already know you like Asians as a group but really do hate the others, as groups.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 10:05 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I think he said 'freeborn freedom' which is one of those many slogans he enjoys. One day he'll figure out how to string together three free words in a row. It will greatly increase the freedom quotient and power of what he says.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 10:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Update; they passed it. Does surprise me, but there are nutwings everywhere, L.A. has more than its share, and the Limbaugh kerfuffle has brought a lot of anger to the surface. Note:
Quote:

The Los Angeles City Council called Tuesday for radio outlets to put an end to racist and sexist language on the airwaves.

The resolution is a symbolic statement decrying a recent comment by local KFI-AM (640) talk radio hosts John and Ken.

Talk radio host Dominique DiPrima of KJLH-FM (102.3) was among a number of speakers in support of the resolution. DiPrima said a lack of diversity among radio hosts contributes to the prevalence of derogatory speech on the airwaves.

"Instead of censoring people, or firing people, we want to see representation in terms of hiring and clear standards" she said.

Councilman Paul Krekorian said the aim of the resolution was not to stifle free speech, but to seek a greater consensus on what is appropriate speech and to reject what is not.

"It's exactly appropriate for this council to speak up against the vile things we hear on the airwaves," he said. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-kfi-city-20120322,0,5204752.st
ory
other words, the City Council is using THEIR rights to freedom of speech to speak up against what they believe is wrong. Which of course Wulf and Friends wouldn't have, no siree!

I'm not crazy about it, but like everyone else (except apparently here) I recognize it's a symbolic statement speaking up against the kind of shit we hear daily on the radio. They've got the right to speak up against it, and nobody had any intent of censoring anyone.

Oh, and it's not "one group". A bunch of groups approved of it or encouraged it...I guess THEY don't deserve freedom of speech either. Saw that while reading articles, but not going to bother going back to list them.

BEFORE the resolution was even offered, by the way:
Quote:

After the controversial comments, KFI ordered seven-day suspensions for the popular hosts, saying the station "does not condone, support or tolerate statements of this kind."

At the time, the station also made several pledges to increase sensitivity to minorities at the station. Kobylt and Chiampou agreed to take part in "cultural sensitivity training," the station said, "furthering their awareness of the cultural melting pot that is Southern California."

Station OWNERS, get it?

Predictably, others recognize it for what it is. Comments from one story:
Quote:

The resolution carries no provision of enforcement. It will never be taken to court nor will any radio stations ever be penalized.

It’s just silly drama on the part of the LA City Council to impotently weigh in on Rush Limbaugh’s opinions.
------
Your right politicians love this sort of thing for it gives the appearance of action on their part, without any of the dangers from unintended consequences of actually doing something
-----
Exactly. It is just political theater. It’s just like those worthless “Sense of the Senate” resolutions passed in Congress. It carries the legal weight of a hummingbird dropping.
-----
L.A. WASTING MORE TAX DOLLARS WITH SUCH GARBAGE RESOLUTIONS. NO POWER OF LAW. NOW POWER OF ENFORCEMENT. WILL NEVER BE TESTED IN COURT. JUST A FEW WASTED COUNSEL MEMBERS TRYING TO KISS SOME ASS.

There were numerous comments against the resolution, but most people know it for what it is. Nonetheless, I'm disappointed they passed it. But then, that's L.A.



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Friday, March 23, 2012 10:19 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

In other words, the City Council is using THEIR rights to freedom of speech to speak up against what they believe is wrong.


Hello,

This is where you and I differ on this issue, Niki.

If these people state their opinion on their own time, it's just one person's free speech.

If these people pass a Council resolution declaring something, it is the official position of government.

Even if it's not given the force of law, a government agency has declared its official position on this matter.

That's reprehensible.

I'm not speaking from a crazy place. I know you want to discount this as mere foolishness, but the Council represent the city. The people should resist this official declaration as being against the interests of freedom.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 10:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

So which group du jour do you think you mean?
Aw, c'mon Kiki, you know full well what group (and it's not du jour, it's de rigueur) he means libruls, of course. Or anyone with ANY appearance of being a librul. Or anyone he THINKS might be a librul or says anything that he thinks makes them LOOK like a librul. Or anyone who ever had a progressive thought. AND all those other groups you mentioned, but mostly, libruls.

And no, an Asian (or any other) group supporting it means nothing. They're all libruls.



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Friday, March 23, 2012 10:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Anthony, I hear you. And there were calls for that among the commentors. But while I, like most of them, decry it, I'm afraid my priorities are focused on more important things, REAL things, not some crazies in the City Council down South. You're not coming from a crazy place, THEY are, and most of us recognize this. If we got head up about all the stupid things city councils do, we'd have no time for anything else. Instead, MOST of us dismiss it for what it is and move on to the things that can actually impact someone's life--like the laws being passed against women, for example. Why would I want to waste time on something which has no validity and which was INTENDED to have no validity or force of law, only make a statement, while real people are being really harmed by real laws?

Like I said: perspective.

Enough already (for me). I've wasted far more time than I should on something so ridiculous; I don't like it, period. But it means nothing, will change nothing, and it's not worth wasting my time over. If anyone DARED to actually try to pass a law, or anything with any force behind it, believe me, Californians would be up in arms in two seconds flat. But something like this requires tolerance rather than fury, and remember, that's what people call us crazy for, too.

The recent law about protesting is REAL, and serious, and WILL affect freedom of speech. I'll put my energy there, thank you. I've only got so much to expend. I'll just give you back your own words:
Quote:

Just as those of another 'type' or 'group' who tried to ban flag burning or various books did not represent the whole of their constituency.

I hope that the majority of any 'type' or 'group' would oppose any such censorship, thus countering the real 'type' we all must oppose: People who rail against freedom in any 'group.'





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Friday, March 23, 2012 10:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Anthony,

"Government" only has power, because people allow it.

Power doesn't come from government.

Its people, only people.

An agent of the "government" has no more power over me, than does a stranger. If I choose to honer their "authority", then I give them power.

What happens when I don't? As just a singular individual... Im crushed.

But, when a few refuse (say NO), and maybe a few more, and a few more, and a few more after that?

Well then. You have a movement. maybe a rebellion. Maybe an army.

Government is not the end-all, be all. Its just people.

Now the the government wants to control free-speech. Beyond controlling health-care, what car you are forced to support, beyond what war you must pay for, beyond what weapon you may own, beyond who may spy on you, beyond controlling religion... you are now controlled in what you say.

Even for a lawyer, you have to see that this is not right.




"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Friday, March 23, 2012 10:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Aaaand before I can click away, here comes Wulf, spouting his usual overblown bullshit.
Quote:

Now the the government wants to control free-speech.
Liar.
Quote:

you are now controlled in what you say.
Liar.

Neither of those things has ANY bearing on this issue, and neither one is true.

Go back to your fantasies of armed rebellion, we live in the real world. And there's an end to it.



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Friday, March 23, 2012 11:21 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Even for a lawyer, you have to see that this is not right.


Hello,

What does this mean?

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 11:34 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Power doesn't come from government. Its people, only people."

Just a random thought -

Groups are like organisms and the people in them are like cells. Those organisms have life, growth, drives, appetites, and a will to live. The people in them are as unknowing as a kidney cell is, performing their functions in support of the organism.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 11:50 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Power doesn't come from government. Its people, only people."

Just a random thought -

Groups are like organisms and the people in them are like cells. Those organisms have life, growth, drives, appetites, and a will to live. The people in them are as unknowing as a kidney cell is, performing their functions in support of the organism.



Hello,

Not always. Often the cells introspect, learn, wonder, and group around various ideas, including the idea that they are being exploited.

This is usually treated as a cancer.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Friday, March 23, 2012 1:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Well, I think it's complicated.

In so far as people have control over human structures, it * is * 'just' people. B/c the only thing that will change things - absent a radical change in the physical world - is people.

But then, people have ideas. These ideas are arranged in structures called religion, or economics, or governance, or myths. These ideas pass on from generation to generation, perhaps slowly changing, but for the most part staying consistent, person to person, generation to generation. People are taught them and treat them as if they were reality, even in the face of actual reality which is contrary (ie the structures are beliefs). That makes these structures a higher organizational power than people, and people a subset of them.


BTW I remember a remarkable series of lectures about the flowering of new religions around the globe. It was connected to the accumulation of people in settled areas due to agriculture, and the fact that people HAD to find new rules by which to interact, due to the change in their environment (even if it was self-caused). The OTHER major shift I see is the demographic transition that comes with a high standard of living.

Perhaps the answer to puzzling out human behavior is to ignore which changes are self-caused like settlement, concentrated goods and concentrated people, or religion; and which are imposed from the outside like dwindling numbers of the Anasazi, or dwindling resources, and simply examine them all in terms of physical event coupled with social effect. Surely we have enough examples of events to observe event and response.

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Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:13 AM

OONJERAH



I notice:
Troll Country: Trolls are sent here where they can talk amongst themselves.
Trolls are sent to Troll Country, I gather, because they don't voluntarily stay there.
The free speech of trolls need not be read by me.

Query: When are they sent there?
Because to me, Pirate News is a really disgusting troll, not funny.
Crazy, yes. No sense of decency.

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Saturday, March 24, 2012 11:24 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Oonjerah:

I notice:
Troll Country: Trolls are sent here where they can talk amongst themselves.
Trolls are sent to Troll Country, I gather, because they don't voluntarily stay there.
The free speech of trolls need not be read by me.

Query: When are they sent there?
Because to me, Pirate News is a really disgusting troll, not funny.
Crazy, yes. No sense of decency.



Hello,

I have no idea what criteria are used to send someone to Troll Country. Piratenews' signal to noise ratio is very low. Others have been even worse, believe it or not.

Some people find that Pirate has value, and I disagree. In terms of information, everything he says can be found from cleaner sources. In terms of disinformation, everything he says is immediately suspect.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:33 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Gawd, Hero, you're as bad as him (and your other cohorts here). The Free Speech Movement--in caps, okay?--started here. The Boston Tea Party wasn't a free speech movement, it was a protest, and protests have gone on all through history. They DID NOT HAVE FREE SPEECH in Boston at that time, or don't you know your history?


Actually they did have Free Speech...it s a natural right.

Problem was to much govt.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Monday, March 26, 2012 9:23 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I have to side with Anthony on this one, I'd rather have social pressure determine what people say and don't say than government pressure.

And if those rutters from Westborough can be awful like that then I reckon some boring radio show hosts can too, they don't seem as bad to me as the Westborough people. I wish people could just treat each other more respectfully, even when they disagree.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise

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