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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
David Barton on Thomas Jefferson
Friday, May 4, 2012 5:50 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Conservative historian David Barton, a knowledgeable source when it comes to understanding America’s faith roots, is a frequent guest on GBTV. And today, Barton became the number one trending topic on Google. The astounding accomplishment, CNN’s Belief Blog reports, came after the historian‘s Tuesday evening appearance on Jon Stewart’s “The Daily Show.” Barton has been an advocate for the notion that Christianity was at the root of the nation’s founding and that the faith system has played a key role in shaping American history. This detail, he argues, has been removed from history books and is not discussed adequately in classrooms. His organization, WallBuilders, is focused on promoting this long-lost history and defending the nation’s Christian heritage. Barton’s new book, “The Jefferson Lies: Exposing the Myths You’ve Always Believed About Thomas Jefferson,” delves into the issue of whether Thomas Jefferson was, indeed, secular — or religious. The popular evangelical historian tries, throughout the text, to refute the notion that he was an anti-theist politician. Recently, Barton appeared on GBTV, where he told Glenn Beck that the history of the Jefferson Bible has been twisted. Naturally, the evangelical leader is not without his critics. On Tuesday evening, as noted, he made yet another appearance (yes, he’s been on before) on “The Daily Show,” where he discussed faith in America. “You are prolific as always,” Stewart said, as he began his discussion with Barton. The two spent the first portion of the interview discussing misconceptions surrounding Jefferson. “The biggest feeling — that he was an atheist or a secularist. He just wasn’t. He was a religious guy,” Barton said. “His activities, his actions, his givings, his money — now he had some comments that you could take out of context…but when you look at hundreds of his letters, you just don‘t get the sense that he’s an atheist.” http://www.theblaze.com/stories/david-barton-is-todays-1-google-trend-after-talking-about-religious-freedom-on-the-daily-show/ man is totally off his rocker in his desperation to convince us that Jefferson wanted religion in our government, and that the Christian religion is being "attacked" in America!? I gave up on the idea of watching the complete interview on the Daily Show's website; after just the bit on the show itself, my stomach was roiling. If they had their way, these rabid supposedly religious types would do away with every other religion and run our country by the Bible...talk about "god help us"! (pun intended) But it was illuminating to see just how far his type will go to rationalize their positions, and how twisted they are. Jon Stewart had fun with him espousing his idiocy. The man is the epitom of today's radical "Christians" who give Christianity a bad name:Quote:The constitutional principle of separation of church and state has given Americans more religious freedom than any people in world history. Around the globe, those suffering under the heavy heel of government-sponsored religious oppression look to America's church-state model with longing. The "wall of separation between church and state" is America's bulwark of true religious liberty. Despite its proven track record of success, separation of church and state is increasingly becoming just another target for the Religious Right's smear campaign strategists. In the past few years, an entire cottage industry has sprung up in Religious Right circles that seeks to "prove" that mainstream history is all wrong. The United States was really founded to be a fundamentalist Christian nation. Separation of church and state was never intended; it was, these far-right activists allege, foisted on the country by the Supreme Court in recent times. The Religious Right's leading practitioner of this type of historical revisionism is David Barton, who runs an outfit called WallBuilders out of Aledo, Texas.1 Barton makes a lucrative living traveling the right wing's lecture circuit where he offers up a cut-and-paste version of U.S. history liberally sprinkled with gross distortions and, in some cases, outright factual errors. Crowds of fundamentalist Christians from coast to coast can't get enough of it. Barton's propaganda frequently leaches into the secular media. Fundamentalist activists who have read his self-published books or watched his videotape "America's Godly Heritage" use the material to attack separation of church and state in local newspapers through letters to the editor and opinion columns. Religious Right-backed candidates spout Barton's history as they seek public office. In addition, Barton has been eagerly embraced by TV preacher Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition. For three years running Barton has been a featured speaker at Christian Coalition meetings, where his presentation on America's "Christian" roots and salvos against church-state separation draw huge crowds.2 Local units of the Christian Coalition have hosted Barton as well, and some sell his books and videos. Other major Religious Right luminaries have lauded Barton's "research." Jerry Falwell has praised Barton's anti-separation of church and state screed The Myth of Separation (1989) from his television pulpit and sells it through Liberty University's bookstore. Barton has been interviewed by Dr. James Dobson, the radio psychologist who heads the wealthy and powerful Focus on the Family in Colorado Springs. During a flap over religion in public schools in Utah four years ago, Barton materials surfaced through the local branch of Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle Forum. The Rev. D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries is also an enthusiastic Barton booster.3 Robertson, Christian Coalition executive director Ralph Reed, and other Religious Right bigwigs have hooked up with Barton despite his links to the most extreme elements of the radical right wing. On two occasions Barton has delivered his presentation before white supremacist organizations with ties to neo-Nazis. In 1991 Barton addressed the Rocky Mountain Bible Retreat of Pastor Pete Peters' Scriptures for America, a group that espouses the racist "Christian Identity" theology. Advocates of this bizarre dogma insist that white Anglo-Saxons are the "true" chosen people of the Bible and charge that today's Jews are usurpers. Aside from being a virulent anti-Semite, Peters has advocated the death penalty for homosexuals. According to the Anti-Defamation League, other speakers at the event included white supremacist leader and 1992 presidential candidate James "Bo" Gritz, a leader of the radical and increasingly violent militia movement, and Malcolm Ross, a Holocaust denier from Canada. In November of that same year, Barton spoke at Kingdom Covenant College in Grants Pass, Oregon, another "Christian Identity" front group with ties to Peters. More at http://www.publiceye.org/ifas/fw/9606/barton.htmlQuote:
Quote:The constitutional principle of separation of church and state has given Americans more religious freedom than any people in world history. Around the globe, those suffering under the heavy heel of government-sponsored religious oppression look to America's church-state model with longing. The "wall of separation between church and state" is America's bulwark of true religious liberty. Despite its proven track record of success, separation of church and state is increasingly becoming just another target for the Religious Right's smear campaign strategists. In the past few years, an entire cottage industry has sprung up in Religious Right circles that seeks to "prove" that mainstream history is all wrong. The United States was really founded to be a fundamentalist Christian nation. Separation of church and state was never intended; it was, these far-right activists allege, foisted on the country by the Supreme Court in recent times. The Religious Right's leading practitioner of this type of historical revisionism is David Barton, who runs an outfit called WallBuilders out of Aledo, Texas.1 Barton makes a lucrative living traveling the right wing's lecture circuit where he offers up a cut-and-paste version of U.S. history liberally sprinkled with gross distortions and, in some cases, outright factual errors. Crowds of fundamentalist Christians from coast to coast can't get enough of it. Barton's propaganda frequently leaches into the secular media. Fundamentalist activists who have read his self-published books or watched his videotape "America's Godly Heritage" use the material to attack separation of church and state in local newspapers through letters to the editor and opinion columns. Religious Right-backed candidates spout Barton's history as they seek public office. In addition, Barton has been eagerly embraced by TV preacher Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition. For three years running Barton has been a featured speaker at Christian Coalition meetings, where his presentation on America's "Christian" roots and salvos against church-state separation draw huge crowds.2 Local units of the Christian Coalition have hosted Barton as well, and some sell his books and videos. Other major Religious Right luminaries have lauded Barton's "research." Jerry Falwell has praised Barton's anti-separation of church and state screed The Myth of Separation (1989) from his television pulpit and sells it through Liberty University's bookstore. Barton has been interviewed by Dr. James Dobson, the radio psychologist who heads the wealthy and powerful Focus on the Family in Colorado Springs. During a flap over religion in public schools in Utah four years ago, Barton materials surfaced through the local branch of Phyllis Schlafly's Eagle Forum. The Rev. D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries is also an enthusiastic Barton booster.3 Robertson, Christian Coalition executive director Ralph Reed, and other Religious Right bigwigs have hooked up with Barton despite his links to the most extreme elements of the radical right wing. On two occasions Barton has delivered his presentation before white supremacist organizations with ties to neo-Nazis. In 1991 Barton addressed the Rocky Mountain Bible Retreat of Pastor Pete Peters' Scriptures for America, a group that espouses the racist "Christian Identity" theology. Advocates of this bizarre dogma insist that white Anglo-Saxons are the "true" chosen people of the Bible and charge that today's Jews are usurpers. Aside from being a virulent anti-Semite, Peters has advocated the death penalty for homosexuals. According to the Anti-Defamation League, other speakers at the event included white supremacist leader and 1992 presidential candidate James "Bo" Gritz, a leader of the radical and increasingly violent militia movement, and Malcolm Ross, a Holocaust denier from Canada. In November of that same year, Barton spoke at Kingdom Covenant College in Grants Pass, Oregon, another "Christian Identity" front group with ties to Peters. More at http://www.publiceye.org/ifas/fw/9606/barton.htmlQuote:
Quote:
Friday, May 4, 2012 6:17 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: The man is totally off his rocker in his desperation to convince us that Jefferson wanted religion in our government, and that the Christian religion is being "attacked" in America!?
Friday, May 4, 2012 6:51 AM
PIRATENEWS
John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!
Quote:"Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” -Jesus Christ, Matthew 10:34-39, Christian Bible "I have come to cast fire upon the Earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father* against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. -Jesus Christ, Luke 12:49-53, Christian Bible “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.” Jesus Christ, Luke 22:36, Christian Bible Violent Rabbi Jesus Christ beating and assaulting the jewish bankster moneychangers and driving them from the temple
Quote:Moloch. an ancient Phoenician and Ammonite god, to whom children were sacrificed by burning. -Webster's New World Dictionary "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD. Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. -Leviticus 18:21-22, Christian Bible KJV and Jewish Torah "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not: Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people." -Leviticus 20:1-5, Christian Bible KJV and Jewish Torah "And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon." -1 Kings 11:6-7, Christian Bible KJV and Jewish Torah (Luciferian Star of Soloman is the jewish symbol and Israeli flag) "Because of all the evil of the children of Israel and of the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke me to anger, they, their kings, their princes, their priests, and their prophets, and the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction. But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it. And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." -Jeremiah 32:32-35, Christian Bible KJV and Jewish Torah "And the king sent, and they gathered unto him all the elders of Judah and of Jerusalem. And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel. And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the GROVE. And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech. And he slew all the priests of the high places that were there upon the altars, and burned men's bones upon them, and returned to Jerusalem. Jehoahaz was twenty and three years old when he began to reign; and he reigned three months in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Hamutal, the daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah. And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD. And Jehoiakim gave the silver and the gold to Pharaoh; but he taxed the land to give the money according to the commandment of Pharaoh: he exacted the silver and the gold of the people of the land, of every one according to his taxation, to give it unto Pharaohnechoh (Jewish private Federal Reserve Bank keeps ALL IRS taxes). Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign; And he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, according to all that his fathers had done." -2 Kings 23:1-37 and Jewish Torah "But it's not just the ratty part of town. The upper class in San Francisco is that way. The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time - it is the most faggy goddamn thing that you would ever imagine with that San Francisco crowd. I can't shake hands with anybody from San Francisco." -President Richard "Dick" Nixon, White House audiotape, Nixon Presidential Library, 1971 http://www.prisonplanet.com/032604nixontape.html (audio download) "If I were to choose the speech that gave me the most pleasure and satisfaction in my political career, it would be my Lakeside Speech at the Bohemian Grove in July, 1967. Because this speech traditionally was off the record, it received no publicity at the time. But in many important ways it marked the first milestone on my road to the presidency." -President Richard "Dick" Nixon memoirs http://www.prisonplanet.com/bohemian-grove-where-the-elite-meet-to-eat-and-conspire.html "I'm not going to end up tied down to a Pentagram with Henry Kissenger standing over me naked with his fat belly hanging out, holding a dagger in his hand, am I?" —Alex Jones, from Jones' undercover video Dark Secrets, as Jon Ronson was briefing Jones on how to infiltrate the Grove for British Channel 4 TV “I’ve been up to Bohemian Grove. It was a bizarre experience to pee on a tree with Henry Kissinger and slam drinks with William F. Buckley.” -Actor George Wendt (Teddy Bears Picnic mockumentary about Bohemian Grove) Semite. 1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and ARABS - b : a descendant of these peoples - 2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language. —Merriam Webster Dictionary "A 'Semite' is any person living in that area, including Arabs and Christians. It's time we start talking about 'The Other AntiSemitism'. A Semite is not a Jew living in America or Europe." —Ralph Nader (Arab-American from Lebannon), Independent candidate for president in 2008, Independent Reform Party presidential candidate in 2004, ex-Green Party presidential candidate in 2000, Arab-American Business conference, C-SPAN, 2003 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars www.khazaria.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Ashkenazim.html
Friday, May 4, 2012 7:06 AM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: As to the Christian religion being "attacked" in America, how about the video in the "Obama's anti-bullying Czar bullies HS kids in profanity laced speech" thread?
Friday, May 4, 2012 7:40 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: The man is totally off his rocker in his desperation to convince us that Jefferson wanted religion in our government, and that the Christian religion is being "attacked" in America!? Jefferson did spend quite a while considering the moral teachings of Jesus, and even created what's known as "Jefferson's Bible", which encapsulated the life and teachings of Jesus without all the miracles, angels, etc. As to the Christian religion being "attacked" in America, how about the video in the "Obama's anti-bullying Czar bullies HS kids in profanity laced speech" thread?
Friday, May 4, 2012 7:44 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: As to the Christian religion being "attacked" in America, how about the video in the "Obama's anti-bullying Czar bullies HS kids in profanity laced speech" thread? So calling "journalism students" pansies for bailing on something they didn't want to hear is an attack.... but countless laws aimed at removing rights from women isn't? That wasn't the whole religion being attacked - agree with the statements or not, what Savage said to those kids was about those kids and their actions. Nevermind, you're the king of trying to draw false parallels around here. I shouldn't expect any more. "Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
Friday, May 4, 2012 8:36 AM
Quote:Originally posted by PIRATENEWS: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: As to the Christian religion being "attacked" in America, how about the video in the "Obama's anti-bullying Czar bullies HS kids in profanity laced speech" thread? So calling "journalism students" pansies for bailing on something they didn't want to hear is an attack.... but countless laws aimed at removing rights from women isn't? That wasn't the whole religion being attacked - agree with the statements or not, what Savage said to those kids was about those kids and their actions. Nevermind, you're the king of trying to draw false parallels around here. I shouldn't expect any more. "Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!" Jew Michael "Savage" has a real name -- Weiner.
Friday, May 4, 2012 9:11 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Don't care, since Im not an anti-semetic lunatic like yourself.
Quote:Semite. 1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and ARABS - b : a descendant of these peoples - 2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language. —Merriam Webster Dictionary "A 'Semite' is any person living in that area, including Arabs and Christians. It's time we start talking about 'The Other AntiSemitism'. A Semite is not a Jew living in America or Europe." —Ralph Nader (Arab-American from Lebannon), Indy presidential candidate 2008, Reform Party presidential nominee in 2004, Green Party presidential nominee in 2000, Arab-American Business conference, C-SPAN, 2003 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars www.khazaria.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Ashkenazim.html www.JewsAgainstZionism.com “Judaism is Communism, and Communism is Judaism.” -Rabbi Stephen Wise “It is essential that the sufferings of Jews become worse. This will assist in realization of our plans. I have an excellent idea -- I shall induce anti-semites to liquidate Jewish wealth. The anti-semites will assist us thereby in that they will strengthen the persecution and oppression of Jews. The anti-semites shall be our best friends.” -Theodor Herzl, Founder of Zionism in 1897 "A circumcision ritual practiced by some Orthodox Jews has alarmed city health officials, who say it may have led to three cases of herpes - one of them fatal - in infants. But after months of meetings with Orthodox leaders, city officials have been unable to persuade them to abandon the practice. The practice is known as oral suction, or in Hebrew, metzitzah b'peh: after removing the foreskin of the penis, the practitioner, or mohel, sucks the blood from the wound to clean it." -Andy Newman, New York Times, "City Questions Circumcision Ritual After Baby Dies," August 26, 2005 www.piratenews.org/pedophile-jewish-rabbis-kill-babies.html youtube.com/watch?v=yU0sIUtroQM
Friday, May 4, 2012 9:29 AM
BYTEMITE
Friday, May 4, 2012 10:12 AM
Friday, May 4, 2012 1:00 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: So calling "journalism students" pansies for bailing on something they didn't want to hear is an attack.... but countless laws aimed at removing rights from women isn't?
Friday, May 4, 2012 1:02 PM
Quote:Originally posted by PIRATENEWS: The Jefferson Bible has always been given to every member of Congress, for over 200 years.
Friday, May 4, 2012 1:07 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: So calling "journalism students" pansies for bailing on something they didn't want to hear is an attack.... but countless laws aimed at removing rights from women isn't? Well, the speech they walked out on was an attack on Christianity.
Quote: And limiting rights for women isn't something all Christians support, nor is it limited to Christians.
Friday, May 4, 2012 4:38 PM
Quote: the speech they walked out on was an attack on Christianity
Quote: but it is being done overwhelmingly by Republicans in Congress, all of whom claim to be Christians
Saturday, May 5, 2012 3:17 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: So calling "journalism students" pansies for bailing on something they didn't want to hear is an attack.... but countless laws aimed at removing rights from women isn't? Well, the speech they walked out on was an attack on Christianity. ... by someone who holds no government position.
Quote:Quote: And limiting rights for women isn't something all Christians support, nor is it limited to Christians. ... but it is being done overwhelmingly by Republicans in Congress, all of whom claim to be Christians.
Monday, May 7, 2012 4:24 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
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